Should African Americans recieve reperations?

I say the debt has not been paid in the slightest, but since it is so long ago nothing will be done, particularly in a difficult economic climate with our nation holding massive debt. But should we? Probably. At a minimum, there are plenty of people alive that have suffered through getting basic rights and equality during the civil rights movement. They would be more entitled to some sort of monetary compensation for being stupidly held back throughout a large portion of their lives.

But alas, there just really isn’t the money unless we want to drop another trillion or so in debt.

out of curiosity, would my view generally be considered liberal or conservative?

No.

No…
The past is the past….We should spend our time/money improving the Future…

Not in my opinion. In the first place, not only African Americans would have to be recompensed for the wrongs done to them but so would every minority group that ever came to or was brought to this country. There’s not enough money in the world for that. And in the second place, money just buys stuff—it doesn’t buy forgiveness and forget-ness. It doesn’t heal wounds or change minds. That will take a lot more than money; it will take more wisdom and bravery than current generations can muster.

@Austinlad Good point.

I don’t understand your rationale about spending money on the war? The war was because of the racist white people. The federal government at the time was fighting for the freedom of the slaves. Maybe it should be southerners who benefitted from salvery pay into a pool to help blacks if we have some sort of reperations. Reperations in Germany and other countries after Nazi Germany was the government returning things they had confiscated from the Jews and others for the most part. The situation in the US regarding slavery is a little different. It would be local and state governments in my opinion that owe something, more than a federal obligation if you look it at in terms of dollars spent on the war.

After saying all lf that, I am inclined to not be in favor of reperations, and tend to agree with @coffeenut let’s look forward.

What do you mean the debt has been paid long ago? Do you mean to say that because the Civil War was fought and it cost lives and money that that is enough of a payback for slavery? The Civil War had to be fought and should have been fought earlier. I don’t think reparations are the answer, btw, either. I think confronting actual racism that persists to this day is.

Those who should have received compensation are long since dead, it is too late. The only compensation we can now offer is to remember the evils of slavery so that it never happens again.

Was the US Civil War really about slavery? I know some people say that Lincoln wasn’t really against slavery, that ending slavery wasn’t the purpose of the war.

@GracieT I researched it…it was the main thing. Lincoln took a huge risk in declaring the war because he knew that a good portion of the union would try to secede if he made slavery illegal, and a secession, especially of those states would would be VERY bad for the economy. The war was actually fought to stop the southern states from seceding, but they wouldn’t have seceded if he hadn’t declared slavery to be illegal. He actually ran on an anti-slavery platform when he ran for the president.

Not before the Romans cough up for the holes in Jesus’s hand and feet.

No.

To make the question more specific, how would the money be divided up? Every African American person gets some? Every person that’s part African American gets some? I see no sense in handing someone money based upon their race, based upon something that happened to some distant ancestor four hundred years ago.

Those who should have received compensation are long since dead. And so are those who should’ve paid, if anyone were to pay. Descendants had nothing to do with it.

If one is going to go back in the past than you might as well start with the English and Europeans who came here and stoled the land from the natives and them stoled prisoners for slavery and then stoled Africans for slavery (who by the way were sold and captured by other Africans) and paid by the English. How far back do we go?
If someone did something to my dad years ago, I would not want compensation from the guilty persons parents or even their children, or childrens,children. I would simpy want the guilty person to pay for the crime.
There is no way that anyone can ever right the wrongs of the past. What is done is done. You cannot bring back the dead or undo physical harm or rape or slavery. Some things can never be undone. Its not like, oh sorry I gave you a ham sandwich and you ordered a steak sub.

no. I live in an area where there are just as many blacks doing well as anybody else. They are buying homes so fast they can’t be built fast enough. Big homes.
President Obama was the biggest nail in the coffin of expected reparations. We have a black President now. There can be no other higher aspiration than that for anybody. Now The biggest obstacle to Black Americans is themselves.

Anyone who wants one should be offered a free one way boat ticket to the land of their ancestors.

Absolutely not. And I could not agree more wholeheartedly with what @YARNLADY said on the issue.

It would be nice to get the perspective of one who’s parents were terribly oppressed. So far we’ve got mainly (presumably) non-minorities expressing that it is a waste. Maybe it is too late, but it should be at least treated with the respect the situation deserves. It wasn’t that long ago, and it’s incredibly disgusting.

@cockswain Everyday in some part of the world oppression is being committed. It has been like that since the beginning of time. I am a minority and a female to boot. Should I expect my government to pay me for women everywhere who have been oppressed. Woman didn’t have the right to vote and where often treated like second hand citizens. In many places still are. Even here.
If we all started to collect finanially for all wrongs done to us than where is this money going to come from? As it is, if the government wants to wipe its nose, it needs to borrow from Peter to pay Paul, just to get the tissue.
I’m not saying one should forget the past. Learn from the past but move on with the future on ones own two feet. Best way to make up for the past is to ensure it doesn’t get repeated and that steps are in place to make things better.

I’m gonna go against the grain here and say that reparations should be paid, but that without also confronting the base causes of institutionalized racism, namely (neo)colonialism, economic exploitation, and white supremacy, any sort of reparations will do little good to anyone.

I also feel the need to point out that if we’re making recompense to people disadvantaged due to the previous exploitation of their peoples and communities, then the payers should be those who benefit the most directly from that former exploitation, i.e. the rich.

But of course, I’ve always enjoyed Robin Hood a bit extra.

IMHO reparations are overrated as a remedy to any past infractions of the govt. It wasn’t even the US govt that condoned slavery. It was the long defunct Confederate Union. Of those that would be illegible for payment there are the blacks who have forged ahead with it and wouldn’t need it financially and the less fortunate who would squander it and the funds would end up right back where it started in no time. Then what would they do? The skit that Dave Chapell did several yrs ago about this though pretty funny, was sadly right on the mark. One example of this kind of person was a couple elections back when U -Tube had a televised debate on CNN. He asked “Is we gonna git reparation?” Really?

@woodcutter said: ” the less fortunate who would squander it and the funds would end up right back where it started in no time.”

I’ll brush aside the obvious classism there to note that, contrary to popular belief, an influx of cash into working class families really does help things. It’s mostly used to pay off debt, or pay for necessary repairs, which decreases the burden on working class families significantly.

@incendiary_dan I suppose that might depend on what kind of windfall we are talking here. I haven’t heard any numbers although I would guess the recipients would expect something in the millions or in the hundreds of thousands at least.
Many lottery winners who for the first time in their lives are responsible for more money than they’ve ever seen grossly mishandle their affairs to the point of being broke in a relatively short time. If the amount is a few hundred bucks then that really isn’t a large enough sum for people to get into trouble with. There is a right way and many, many wrong ways to handle money. Big money is really slippery in the hands of people who think they know what to do. Ignorance and the lower incomes usually wear the same pair of shoes. It knows nothing about race.
There’s no classism intended. As you all should well know by this time, if you expect me to play the political correctness card there is bound to be disappointment. I can’t help that.

@DominicX and @YARNLADY both said what I think.

@YARNLADY You touched on the next question I was thinking about asking. But, last night I was too tired to formulate it.

@Pandora is right – in Africa, slaves were brought to the west coast to be sold to the Europeans and Americans by other Africans. Obviously Africans profited from selling Africans. How would reparations work then? It was not just the white man profiting.

@jca That still does not excuse slavery in America, and the bullshit separate but equal the south got away with for almost a hundred years after slavery became illegal in our country. Even if we dismiss slavery as a reason reparations, blacks still were treated like second class citizens for a ridiculous, inexcusable amount of time.

@JLeslie many minorities were treated as second class citizens for a very long time. Some still are.
My ancestors who were immigrants to the US were spat upon regularly, and that was just a small insult compared to the economic and social exploitation and disadvantages.
I don’t expect any reparations, that would be ridiculous.

@wilma I am not in favor of reperations either. My only point was being slaves in Africa does not excuse being slaves in America.

Okay,People need to really research.There where white slaves back then also.
The white slaves were never freed like the African slaves were. Lots of freed African slaves got to own slaves after they where freed. There was a African slave owners.One who’s name was name was Richard Holloway sr.
I am not a raciest, I am way to mixed and VERY proud.
I am just sick of Black and White.
THEY ARE JUST COLORS, COLOR DOES NOT MAKE A PERSON…
THIS IS 2011, GET OVER IT.
Thank you…
Read about Mr. Holloway..http://blackinformant.wordpress.com/2005/02/28/more-buried-history-black-slave-owners-in-the-us/

@Loner2011 Yes, but part of the reason people bought black slaves was because they had darker skin and could be spotted as someone who might be leaving their property or community when they did not have permission. The plantation owners had choices to but indentured servants from Europe, black African Slaves and others. Most southerners purchased black slaves. When slavery was abolished the south did not give a shit, they tried all sorts of loopholes to get around the federal laws and decisions, claiming states rights (some of the same things we see today regaring gay rights, abortion, and others). It was the former black slaves, and other black people who might have lived in the south, I do not know much about them, who then endured discrimination for another 100 years more or less.

The “white” slaves were treated bad also..
People need to do more research.
By the mid 1700’s, black artisans and shopkeepers owned slaves in the city, while free blacks also held slaves on farms in the country. In the city of Charleston, free blacks nearly monopolized the jobs of barbers, bricklayers, shoemakers, tailors and dressmakers. They prospered in their entrepreneurial jobs and were able to earn the capital needed to purchase slaves.
In 1830, 80 percent of blacks who owned ten or more slaves lived in Louisiana or South Carolina

@Loner2011 Can you provide a source for what you’re saying, particularly the last sentence? My understanding was that blacks had zero property rights in the South.

Not so true..
Here..http://www.teachingushistory.org/lessons/BlackSlaveOwnersinCharleston.html

If you need more I will give them to you.

Interesting, and news to me. However, I think I’m reasonably suspicious of the source being from South Carolina for South Carolinans. I say this because I’m aware of the fact that, at least as recently as the late 90s in Georgia, the Civil War was still being taught as “The War of Northern Aggression.”

I saw the article at least had sources listed, but if you have something else too, I’d like to see it. You see, I’m extremely skeptical of things.

I remember reading that free white Irish immigrants were often employed to load and unload ships in the Southern ports as the work was so incredible dangerous and the chances of death or injury so high that slave owners didn’t want to risk using their own slaves.

Not all “white” people in the South owned slaves..
The fact is large numbers of free Negroes owned black slaves; in fact, in numbers disproportionate to their representation in society at large. In 1860 only a small minority of whites owned slaves.
This blew me away..

For the past six years, Carl, a retired Air Force veteran, has studied the life of Sherrod Bryant, who probably was among the wealthiest blacks in Tennessee in the 1800s. Upon his arrival to the state in 1806 from North Carolina, the then 25-year-old Sherrod Bryant set to purchasing land, acquiring seven different parcels in the still-fledgling Midstate between 1811 and 1852.
http://civilwartalk.com/forums/showthread.php?25712-Black-slave-owner-an-untold-part-of-history

I guess there were cases of this. But it seems uncommon for sure. But what is your point though? That slavery affected whites equally as blacks?

“Whites” were slaves also back then,
and treated harshly.
Some people think just the African slaves were treated bad,The “white” slaves were also.
All races have been treated unfair.
Its a horrible fact.
Past is past,Can’t change it,but we can live for today.

So…a side purpose of the Civil War was to get white and black slaves on equal footing?

In a way yes. Surprising what we can learn doing research that changes every thing we were ever taught in school.

I guess, my question to @Loner2011 is why would you want to believe something when it can’t be substantiated by any reputable source? The only link in there was to another blog that’s no longer available. Just because something is in print doesn’t mean it’s true.

@Dutchess_III I felt the same until I searched “Sherrod Bryant” and it appears he existed and did own slaves. Seems more likely to be true than not.

I’ll look again…I didn’t find anything on him…do you have a link?

@Dutchess III: Just because something is not on the internet does not make it false.

@Loner2011 referred us specifically to the internet in regards to Sherrod Bryant. I only question its veracity because I haven’t found anything in any reputable source regarding that person. I agree, that doesn’t mean it’s not true, but it doesn’t mean it IS true either. I, personally, would not throw my hat in on that one.

Here’s a great book.
It is on Amazon. Black Masters: A Free Family of Color in the Old South,
by Michael P. Johnson
It’s an eye opener.

@Dutchess_III I found this essay on AmericanCivilWar.com. Seems reputable, but tough to ever know anything for sure.

I couldn’t find Sherrod Bryant on that website, nor wikipedia.

I have been researching this topic for a long time.
This part of history keeps my attention.
Justus Angel and Mistress L. Horry, of Colleton District, South Carolina, who each owned 84 slaves in 1830. In fact, in 1830 a fourth of the free Negro slave masters in South Carolina owned 10 or more slaves; eight owning 30 or more (2).
Here’s one..Very reputable.
http://www.uwec.edu/Geography/Ivogeler/w188/south/charles/charles3.htm

I found Sherrod Bryant the welthiest “black” slave owner.
Owned slaves and land in the south.
He is buried in Bryant Town Cemetery, Donelson, Tenn.
http://www.historicmarkers.com/tn/72746-Sherrod-Bryant/

@cockswain Thanks~

Absolutely. It’s long overdue. Germans born after 1945 still pay part of their taxes to reimburse forced laborers.

@mattbrowne Forced laborers, and the children of forced laborers?

Ok..Then Every one who ever were forced labor should get reparations. Still that was them. How would paying people now help the dead? Their gone.

Where does it end? Should the Egyptians be paying reparations to the Israelites?

I know..People should live in the NOW.Now is all we got..Past is past..let it rest there.

That is something I can agree with.Why don’t the decendants of Roman slave owner pay the decendants of Roman slaves. The point being that money isn’t going to change what happened. How giving money to the decendants who were never slaves heal the pain of the actual slave. No African American alive today was a slave so he did not feel the pain of slavery. All those who claim they are entitled to reperation are just looking for money.

So true..

@JLeslie – Not the children as far as I know, but in the case of reparations for slavery there is no other way of course. But it’s difficult to determine how far in history we want to go. Romans? Abrahams descendants had been slaves in Egypt.

One option would be to look at inherited land and assets after slavery ended. Finding a solution for this is not easy. I even think there should be reparations for disadvantages created during the time of segregation, for example the inequality of funding schools and universities.

While we are on the subject, I would like to see everyone who lives on pre-Columbian First Nation (Indian) land pay royalties and relocation fees to those of us with Native American ancestors.

Well, the problem with that is that some Native American tribes have to pay other tribes as well. Dislocation wasn’t invented by Europeans. In fact, in prehistoric times during the ice age explorers from what is present day France might have settled before the ancestors of Native Americans who came from Asia. They were all killed and only some of their tools remain.

I love the concept of luring white people into casinos run by Native Americans. A very innovative relocation fee !

@YARNLADY I am not arguing with your statement, but just bringing up a separate related point. Native Americans can go to college for free, not sure if it is all public universities or just certain ones? But, also, I think there are federal grants for Native Americans. I am not saying this makes up for land being taken, or any brutality, but the US does do something. And, isn’t there some sort of tax free status? I don’t think African Americans get these types of benefits. Although, I know there are some sort of scholarships and loans for college. Not sure how it all compares.

Im saying that the civil war was a very bloody war. Slavery was one of the main causes of the war. Getting shot in the leg during that period of time came with the very high likelyhood of amputation. The end result of the Union victory put an end to slavery. Despite what some may say this really, in my honest opinion, cancels out any reperations. They would like to tell you about descrimination that fallowed afterwards but it wasn’t only the African Americans who were descriminated after the war. The Irish, Chinese Immigrants, japanese during WW2 were just some of the groups that faced discrimination. The Catholics face discrimination as well. It wasn’t just African Americans. Are we supposed to pay reperations for all that was done to all those groups as well? Slavery existed in The American colonies for more than a century before the founding of the United States of American. Are the decendants of these slave owners supposed to pay the decendants of slaves reperations for something that started almost 400 years ago and ended 145 years ago. Something these decendants had nothing to do with. They can’t change it and they can’t go back in time to prevent it from ever happening. They are not responsible for what their ancesters did.

@mattbrowne Are the Jews in Germany today very successful as a group? Economically? Education? Professionally? Do they have complaints of continuing to be discriminated against?

@JLeslie – Yes, very successful. There are very few orthodox Jews. Religion is very private in Germany. Very often people don’t even know who is actually Jewish. The only complaints that exists are related to the small neo-Nazi movement which exists in every country. Antisemitism is an absolute taboo, but it exists to a small extend like in other countries. Here is a major website you might like to browse

http://www.zentralratdjuden.de/en/topic/2.html

The press releases are very interesting.

@mattbrowne Interesting. Especially that the Jews who stayed in Germany after the war, who might have felt ostracized or criticised by Jews who had left, had a psychological shift once Russian Jews began emigrating to Germany. The article mentions the Jews who cqme into the country are educated, professors, scientist, etc. Or, maybe that they become the educators and scientists of tomorrow? I would have to reread that part. Still, it seemed Jewish people are perceived as an assett to the country, and fit in well with society.

Yesterday I had a long discussion with an African American man who lives here in Memphis. There is currently a public school issue here in Memphis, and he made a statemenr that if does not go the way he wants he might leave Memphis, because racism is alive and well here. I told him he should move. Doesn’t have to be out of the country, can just be a place in America with less division between the races. So when I asked you the question, I was thinking psychologically staying in the country where the “slavery” happened might be extremely difficult to overcome. Many say this as part of the reason it is different for African Americans than other groups. I am trying to figure out if it is about the group who was opressed, or if it is more about how they are treated? Now what I think from reading your article, is what might be very important is African Americans who do well, psychologically freeing other African Americans psychologically.

If Germany and the non-Jewish German people had treated the Jews in exactly the same way post war, but the influx of new Jews had not happened, I wonder if their would now, so many years later, be more angst among German Jews? More anger and feelings they continually need to be on the defense, watching for antisemitism.

No. I believe there are two primary issues with this matter, one of which is more personal, and the second of which is more general.

Firstly, I feel that reperations sets a precedent for nationalistic and ethnicity related views in a manner akin to melding state and religion. This is due to much of the issue regarding reperations appearing to derive from the African-American communities sense of connection to their ancestors. Their ancestors were treated unjustly and this is carrying over into their lives, both on an individual and sociological level. Accordingly, some feel entitled to reperations.

However, though some may feel this sense of connection with their ancestors. I, for example, do not. So to claim that it is because of “my people” that anothers “people” have been treated unjustly in the past is equivelant to telling me,
“My ancestors were harmed by those dead folks who you have a loosely larger genetic association with than the rest of humanity.”

I understand and respect peoples views of their ancestory and nationality, but to insist that I pay reperations for acts that I feel I have no involvement in, simply because others believe I do is completely unreasonable.

Granted, some may claim that the government must accept the responsibilities and consequences of those who have governed it in the past (in this regard, it’s better to think of a government as an organism of its own rather than the sum of its parts, that is, the people controlling it) and this is rational, arguably unfair on those put in the seat of power, but rational nonetheless. But following on from my state/religion comparison, I believe that though the government has a responsibility to tackle it’s past indiscretions, to do so in this particular case will instigate a set of unspoken rules concerning how people should perceive their genetic lineage. This is an individual concern to be dealt with by individuals and should consequently not be something the government becomes involved in; the past has shown us on all too many occasions that when individual and governmental matters are intertwined it can quickly become needlessly complicated.

The second key issue is alot more simple. If the African-American community is genuinely feeling the effects of slavery to this day, which I suspect it is to some extent, then surely giving money to individuals from the community will only amplify these effects by distinguishing this community from the larger society.

Rather than this, why not improve upon the charities and private industries that contribute money towards the African-American community as a whole. Do not merely give money to individuals, but instead improve the education and healthcare capabilities that are available to the community. Through this the government need not take a stand on the matter to avoid setting a precedent or creating a distinction between “us” and “them” and the finance will go where it’s genuinely needed.

Obviously these are only my opinions and not having been born nor raised amongst the American culture it can be difficult for me to grasp certain cultural elements involved in the debate. But I have made efforts to ensure that my argument is as reasonable to all audiences as I feel it can be.

What some of you folks seem to want to avoid addressing is the fact that the present circumstances includes the historical events that led up to it, and that the present day happens to be one in which social, economic, and political disempowerment is part of everyday institutions, even if it has been dramatically decreased in the past 150 years. It’s not just an issue which effects those of African descent (and particularly those descended from the enslaved) but also many other groups of society exploited by such a system.

It’s disingenuous to talk about not wanting to “pay for your ancestors’ crimes” when you still happen to be benefiting from them.

I wonder if reperations would help African Americans with a leg up? It is one thing to say the US will pay you for the unfair treatment your ancestors indured. Then it is a matter of justice in a sense. But, it is different to think of it in terms of evening things out, giving people opportunity who are starting in poverty possibly because of the history. We do some of this, just maybe not by race. The poor can get financial aid for college, and we have public schools, not perfectly the same across the board, but probably more equal than different in most instances, and medicaid, and all sorts of charities are there to help disadvantaged children and people. And, we had affirmative actions for many years to help balance things.

@incendiary_dan
But those who are benefiting from the system that works in their favour didn’t ask for these circumstances, they were thrust upon them. Granted, few in that position are complaining about it, but one can’t be held accountable for something one played no role in designing.

I was lucky enough to be born disability and disease free into a white middle-class family. This is due to my genetics, and my family working towards me having this advantage. Should I be obligated to pay individual lower class or disablity stricken families because I was born into an advantageous position? Don’t get me wrong, I would be more than happy to if I had the money (though I’d prefer to imburse an institution working with these communities rather than an individual within it). But the question is whether it is my duty to do so.

@Nially_Bob With all due respects, nobody gives a shit if you asked for it. That’s irrelevant. Just like the fact that I was born male doesn’t mean I don’t benefit from male privilege, being born white doesn’t excuse someone from white privilege.

@incendiary_dan
I’m not denying that a person benefits from privileges they’re born with, on the contrary, much of my argument hinges on that being the case. But whether or not a persons priveleges are a result of their own actions is relevant.

As I am in a position of privilege not of my own choosing, that is, I’m white, naturally slim, able-bodied, male and middle class would you consider it my duty to pay subsides to the working classes, obese, disabled, other ethnicities and females to balance the playing field?

If that is indeed the case then do you feel that Asian-Americans are obligated to pay money towards the African-American community as Asian-Americans are typically better off with regards to education and home ownership (source).

@Nially_Bob (Hey! I could use some money, there!)

It’s cool @Dutchess_III. Once our band gets signed we’ll be sorted for life!

That’s what they all say! Maybe all the musicians who never quite made it should get reparation….along with all the pro sports athletes who never quite made it either.
~Good luck @Nially_Bob. For real. Have you ever posted video or audio of your band.

Hahaha, I was being facetious about the band sorry @Dutchess_III. Just imitating the whole, “It’s cool, ‘cause when my band takes off…” cliché. Unfortunately, despite my family being quite musically talented, I can only play the harmonica and the electric triangle…Which may or may not exist.

Electric triangle?? LOL!

Electric Triangle sounds like a variation of the Sharpshooter wrestling move. But I do wish you good luck! :)

Hmm… Wow. Interesting…