Is it possible that astrology is a science that has not yet been researched enough?

When you looked at your natal chart you automatically felt a connection to those things that you had an affinity with and rejected things that you did not. Also, it was probably written well enough to seem like it was specific but it was really very general. This is called “cold reading” and there are people who are very good at it.

You might be interested in this article, written by someone who posed as an online psychic. Granted, it’s not astrology, but it’s the same skill.
http://www.bad-language.com/psychicskeptic

I would bet serious money that it will always be hogwash.

Eh, I’m not referring to psychics at all. They don’t interest me. As for the things I felt affinity with and those that I did not; I went sentence by sentence and analyzed to make sure I was not doing this. It’s for this same reason I denounced it before. People read what they like and ignore what they do not like, or “doesn’t fit”.

But the chart passed the test several times. I read and re-read it several times over to make sure I was not falling to that trap.

Everything fit, even my undesirable sides that I don’t share with people.

No. No possibility at all. Rarebear gave the explanation why.

@squirbel

The point is not about psychics, but about cold reading, which astrologers are very good at.

Wouldn’t an astrologer have to meet me in order to cold read? I am well versed in cold reading.

The only information I shared was my birth date, birth time, location of birth. My gender was not revealed, nor did I speak to anyone.

I feel like there should be a chance that it’s not all BS….moon cycles apparently affect peoples moods who are very in tune with their bodies….everything seems to be connected. No sun, no life on earth. Moon, tides, ladeeda. I don’t know. I don’t think we should be so quick to dismiss it just because of a few bad eggs.

@squirbel I understand. But it’s exactly the same skill.

Explain how? I’m a scientist. I need evidence. Please? Cold reading.

Possible? Yes.

It is also possible that Rosario Dawson will unexpectedly knock on my door tonight and we shall make sweet, sweet love until dawn.

The odds are about the same.

Where did you take this test or read this personality essay? I would like to dissect it for you.

A B.A. in biology, by the way, does not make one a scientist. (Bill O’Reilly calls himself an historian because he earned a B.A. in history, but we can all agree he’s not an historian.)

@squirbel I know there have been studies done where people were shown the astrological readings from the incorrect zodiac at random and the vast majority still found it accurate. I don’t have the link and am too lazy to search for them, but I’d bet you could find them if you wanted to put in the effort. Could you post a link to a copy of the essay you found so compelling? It might provide us clues as to what’s going on.

Just another point about cold readings, nonverbal communication is an important component in how it’s done, so even if you provided very little verbal information, they read your “poker face” when they throw out their high-probability guesses to see what sticks and hone in to the specifics from there. Cold reading is very difficult if the reader can’t see or hear from the subject and communication is done via yes/no text on a screen for example.

I find the subject gives fascinating insight into the flaws of human psychology that allow even very smart people to be deceived.

Astrology has been around for thousands of years. I feel sure it is been “researched enough” by now.

Astrology, if defined as the act of predicting human characteristics or behavior by the motions of celestial bodies (rather than the prediction of the motions of the bodies themselves, which was once part of astrology and is now called descriptive astronomy or celestial mechanics), does not reliably generate testable hypotheses which can be duplicated. I consider that a minimum qualification to call something a “science”.

If astrology was true (or correct) every person born at the same time and date as you would be exactly like you in all of their personality traits. That just isn’t the case.

Also, if you have seen some of the other threads on Fluther where each of us looked at a random horoscope (from a random newspaper) each one of us had “dramatic similarities” with some of the things that were mentioned, even though some of us were looking at our own horoscope and others were looking at the wrong horoscope. That is because horoscopes always list things that are generalities that can and will be true for most people. And because they sound so wonderful (you are gregarious, you are creative, you are detail oriented, you are goal oriented) they are correct. Who would admit that they don’t have these wonderful characteristics? And the few things that are inaccurate, are just dismissed because the horoscope got most of it right. Most of what is written in any horoscope will be “perfectly right on” for most people.

You can do the test for yourself. Have a friend get the horoscopes from a paper (or even try it with a few papers) have your friend mix up the order of the horoscopes (without you reading or seeing them ahead of time) and read them to you. Then you try to pick out which one is yours. Most of the horoscopes will have things that apply directly to you. That is because they apply directly to almost everyone. The things that are wrong, will be dismissed, because almost everything else was correct (for you and me and everybody else).

Most of us Fluthers (because we write a lot and read about people’s problems) could write very impressive horoscopes that would “appear” to be very accurate. I bet you could too.

Anything is possible, but I would say existing theoretical support for this is zero.

Would you mind posting some examples of things you found particularly convincing?

Sorry, wait. @squirbel you’re a scientist? What kind of science do you do?

I disagree with the majority here. I can’t point to astrology as science, but it has been around for thousands of years. And to the naysayers who think everyone fits into one of twelve categories, that just incorrect thinking. Your natal chart is the only real way to accurately portray a person’s character by birth signs. And @Kardamom‘s assessment that everyone born the same day and time as you would be exactly like you, that is simply not true either. The planets are constantly moving and just a few degrees difference in where Saturn was relative to when you were born or how Jupiter moved into another house in just a few seconds are all important. Also, where YOU were born will have a different reading than someone born in the next town (latitude and longitude play an important role in the natal chart). I, too, have had a natal chart done based only my time and date of birth and location and it was amazingly accurate. I’m not a fan of psychics but am familiar with cold readings and believe that horoscopes (done properly) do not fall anywhere in that category.

@squirbel

You are on the right track when you point out that it hasn’t been researched enough. There is some truth to “astrology” or rather some of the ideas are observable in action. I know this without a doubt, because I have observed them. I have been observing people for 10 years now, knowing everyone’s birthdate I encounter and learning. The pattern is becoming clear to me now. I am getting to the point where I have isolated many physical characteristics and am starting to be able to guess people’s birthdate on occasion within days of their actual birthdate. I will post what I have already posted in reference to this topic all over fluther already; it basically explains how I came to understand that there is some validity to “astrology”. The people who so confidently deny the possibility and regurgitate the reasons are missing the boat. In fact, everyone is missing it in regards to this phenomena. I’m telling you though, without a single doubt in my mind, I am seeing the pattern and I have devised a study to show what I am observing. It is all in what I am about to paste below this paragraph. As a preface though, I’d like to say one last thing: If everyone went by their birthdate as their name, people would have seen the pattern long ago.

I have many thoughts on this subject, as I have devoted 10 years to the study of it, alongside its’ companions mythology, and religion. What I will do is explain the chain of events and thoughts as they happened and try to explain my viewpoint on this. There is also a study I have devised to test astrology that I am currently working on.

On April 2nd, 2001, I met a man named Nick, who was born May 21, 1979. During the first hour we spent together, I noticed that his manner was very similiar to mine, unnervingly so. At this point in my life, I did not think there was any validity to astrology or to much of anything really. I have always been extremely skeptical and a very left-brained, logical mind. Anyways, I asked Nick, “Are we the same or something?” I asked him what his birthday was at that moment, and the urge to do so was instinctual. His birthday was exactly four days before mine, which is May 25, 1979. I then, instinctually, shared my experience of losing my left eye at the age of 15. He then told me he had also lost an eye. I injured my left eye June 2, 1994 and he injured his right eye May 13, 1994. This prompted me to study astrology and see if our similiar birthdates was the reason we are so similiar.
I devoured books on traditional astrology and mythology and religion for the next few years. I noticed a few interesting things and had some intriguing thoughts in that period. First, in relation to Christianity, it seemed that the story of Jesus and his disciples was a sort of allegory representing the zodiac. There are a couple of reasons why I thought this. The main reason deals with the disciple Thomas. Thomas translates literally to “twin”. Thomas’s most memorable and significant role in the bible is when he demands to stick his finger into the wound of Jesus, hence the term “doubting Thomas”. From this, I deduced that Thomas is representative of the sign of Gemini, the twins, for two reasons. The first is obvious: because Thomas literally means twin. The second reason is because he says he won’t believe until he is given proof, which is like the traditional idea of the personality of Gemini(which is my sign), that of a logical, skeptical person. Next, I deduced that the character of Jesus is the other twin. Gemini, the twins, is associated with the archetypal character of Hermes or Mercury, who is the messenger of the gods. The archetype is also the son of god and a selfless character devoted to service and the delivery of a message. The next curious thing I realized deals with the virgin birth. It occurred to me that perhaps it had to do with the sign of Virgo, the virgin. I realized that if Jesus were conceived during the time of Virgo(August 21-September 22), that he would emerge nine months later as a Gemini, as a twin, as Mercury, as the messenger of God. The last thing I noted about the disciples was that John the Baptist is probably a representation of Aquarius the water bearer. Next I discovered the myth of Odin, the scandinavian equivelant of Mercury, Hermes, and Jesus. I read a story about how he sacrifices his eye at the well of Mimir for wisdom. This affected me in a profound way, because I felt like I was basically one of many versions of Hermes/Mercury/Odin/Jesus and that I had lost my eye, so that this knowledge would become clear to me and that I should deliver the message. However, do not judge me as a fanatic for this. I am just a man observing and living. I recognize my inability to know, and keep an objective stance. But, this really got me thinking about the purpose of religious literature and mythology. It seems plausible to me that these stories resulted from these ancient peoples knowledge of the existence of these patterns that we call astrology, and that the stories were a way of passing the information along. Lastly, in regards to ancient people and how they came about these ideas, I wonder if they may have actually been smarter in certain ways than we are today. Perhaps, their right-brains were more developed and they could actually see and understand the patterns of life on a higher level than we can now because their minds were not hindered by language based thought. They were more enveloped in direct experience and therefore may have been able to actually see the pattern, which brings me to the next period of my studies- the last 6 years.
From the moment I met Nick and began to wonder about whether there was any truth to astrology, I began to ask everyone I met and knew what their birthday was. I also would look up the birthdates of any person I might study, see on television, read a book by, etc..
Any person I am familiar with in any capacity, I know their birthdate. For the first few years, nothing out of the ordinary occurred. I just sort of collected the data in my mind, and started questioning and comparing. Does this virgo guy act like this virgo girl? etc…

Now, here is the MEAT of what I have to say about this. I started to notice physical patterns. I started to see that virgos had a certain shape to their eyes. I started noticing geminis talked and acted a certain way. Then, I started, on occasion, to know someone’s birthdate within a few days because they looked very similiar to someone else I knew. I guessed Neko Case’s birthdate in this manner, simply by looking at a picture. I have done this quite a few times, and it is starting to happen more frequently as the pattern is becoming clearer in my mind. At some point, I realized that the simple reason this had happened was because I knew everyone’s birthday. If everyone went by their birthdate as their name, then everyone would have seen this pattern I am becoming aware of a long time ago. It is strange for me though, because I have not met one single person who looks at this the same way I do. Everyone seems to fall into two camps: they are either fanatical, gullible followers of astrology that regurgitate info from books like it is a religion that is all worked out already, or they vehemently deny the possibility and scoff at it. I have felt alone and isolated with what I feel is knowledge that could change the world as we know it. So, I have spent the last year or two trying to figure a way to show what I see. I figured if I can observe these patterns, there must be a way to show these patterns to others scientifically. One day, it hit me.
I have designed a study that can show what I see. The study will look at sets of siblings. If a pair of brothers have the same parents, it seems that they should be almost identical, yet they rarely are. I attribute this to their birthdate. There are other reasons, of course, but I think the birthdate is the main reason. I have noticed that some signs are taller while others are shorter, so height will be the focus. Since I am looking at same-sex siblings, it removes the unwanted variables of race, different genetics, gender, etc… Virgos and Pisces are the apex of the hypothetical line while Gemini and Sagittarius are the trough or the shortest of the hypothetical line. To make it very simple to understand, the hypothesis is that a virgo brother will be taller than his gemini brother a huge percentage of the time, if not every time. I will link a picture of the hypothetical line if anyone is interested. I am in the midst of collecting data right now, which is actually the reason I came to this site. I have been looking for ways to collect data online and figured this community may be willing to take part since it is devoted to knowledge.
There are a few more thoughts I’d like to add about this subject before I finish. I think that it is a science that could be developed. I don’t think that all of traditional astrology is correct. I think much of it is flawed. For instance, I do not think that the more in-depth astrological charts have any validity. I simply look at the birthdate. I also think that the 30 day span of a sign is too broad, and that as we study people to figure out the reality of the pattern, we can break it down into smaller increments, like 5 day spans. I also don’t go for the idea that it is causal. I think that the movement of the planets and everything is what time really is and that time and birthdates are just symbols we use to understand it, but the reality of it is understood without those symbols. To quote Bob Dylan, “Really the truth is just a plain picture”. I also think that we should learn about astrology from people, and not learn about people from astrology. Basically, it is completely undeveloped, though there is some truth in the ground plans the ancients laid out for us. We are the reality of it though, and that is where the answers will come from: the study of the people in correlation with time.

I guess we could flip it around, and with the assumption that there is indeed a predictable science to it, try to answer some questions.

What’s the mechanism? How do the positions of the planets and stars affect an unborn child at the moment of their birth? Gravity? Some sort of energy? Is that energy from a recognizable source? Is it measurable?

If location matters, is it just the location where they actually came out of their mother? Is the location of conception at all important? How is a traveling baby affected?

If it’s some sort of energy being transferred to the baby, wouldn’t there be some sort of material that blocked it? Would hospitals with metal roofs allows for less pronounced effects than ones with tar and gravel? How about housing?

Would twins exhibit the same personality traits? How about people born in the same hospital at around the same time? Why haven’t those patterns been noticed at any time in history?

I think people don’t give astrology any credence because it falls apart under any sort of examination beyond having faith in it’s principals. There’s simply nothing measurable to back it, and that’s a cornerstone of science.

If it was going to change at some point in the future, I think we’d have an inkling by now that it was true and we simply weren’t able to explain why rather than lots of evidence suggesting it is instead false.

As others have said, it is absolutely an ancient discipline and has undoubtedly been thoroughly plumbed. The misperception in your question and among people who share a pedestrian understanding of astrology stems (understandably) from not having the inkling that quote “real” astrology is a practice/discipline and that the relevant knowledge required is largely hidden from public view and the public’s imagination. Thus, the manipulative or synchronous powers that astrology can afford us can be hoarded or perhaps guarded by the few.

@VS

” it has been around for thousands of years”

So have lots of other myths that people still believe in.

“The planets are constantly moving and just a few degrees difference in where Saturn was relative to when you were born or how Jupiter moved into another house in just a few seconds are all important. ”

How? Why? As others have asked, how could this possibly affect you in any way?

@absalom, @Rarebear : It is immature of you to sink low and debase yourself by attempting to offend me. I am a scientist because I question my world and methodically get answers. I still use my scientific method.

Feel free to believe that I am less of a scientist because I have asked a question that the establishment has deemed unscientific. Feel free to disregard what I say because I have stepped into controversial waters. Feel free to spite me because I am braver than you.

I saw a possibility, and I questioned it. I have done nothing else.

Also, the rest of you like @qingu who are just making snarky comments; take it elsewhere because this was not a social question. I am looking for hard evidence for either side.

@squirbel

Can you possibly type out some parts of this reading you received? That way, we could point out things that might be very vague or general.

Does the reading make any specific statements that can be true of only you and no one else?

Nothing is true of only one person and no one else. Anyone who thinks they are truly unique in this mass of human population is severely misguided.

This isn’t a discussion of what reading “I” received, it is a discussion about the possibility of science behind the “art”. If you choose to dissect something, dissect your own chart and then we will come back together and I will share mine at that point.

I will not pollute the discussion by posting mine before anyone else reads theirs.

Here’s the thing. Astrology was based upon the knowledge of some visible galaxies and planets. That was back when Plato and his ilk thought things in the sky were perfect immutable spheres.

Now we know that they are not perfect, they are not equally spaced and they represent an infinitesimal fraction of what is out there – even in the solar system. Some of the stars in the designated constellations are millions of light years apart. They aren’t some kind of structure or family as was thought.

So I say, it’s a dead horse. There’s no more chance that astrology – based on an acient understanding of space – will be demonstrated to have value than we will learn how to make gold from wind, fire and phlegm. Although if anyone knows how to do that, I’m listening…

@squirbel

Aren’t you avoiding the question? You claimed that this reading “was so point on; it was scary and awful at the same time.” What, exactly did it say that made it so? Why aren’t you telling us?

I was not avoiding the question, I was still typing.

@squirbel

So you are typing out parts of this reading to share with us? Just want to clarify.

There is no need to type, since I did not speak with a person. No, I am not sharing until others have done their natal charts and we can speak on even ground. If I post mine now, the discussion will be filled with people who read and say “Oh, that applies to me too, so you’re wrong”. There will be no way to know who is telling the truth and who isn’t.

Also, @crisw, you did not read what I wrote. Comprehension goes a long way when participating in a discussion.

Quote:
“This isn’t a discussion of what reading “I” received, it is a discussion about the possibility of science behind the “art”. If you choose to dissect something, dissect your own chart and then we will come back together and I will share mine at that point.

I will not pollute the discussion by posting mine before anyone else reads theirs.”

I will post the parts of my chart that are extremely specific to me. These are the parts called houses, and the placement of houses is determined by the minute and latitude and longitude I was born, according to my research.

House II is the area of material security and values. It rules money and personal finances, sense of self-worth and basic values, personal possessions.

House II in Scorpio

Financial success may come through handling other people’s money and resources or thanks to an inheritance. Financial ups and downs are very possible, but in later life, finances can be substantial. Private about revealing his worth.

House III is the area of social and intellectual learning.

House III in Sagittarius

He will study for a long time, will be erudite. Very intelligent, an open and independent spirit, will have a connection with foreign countries. Fertile intelligence.

House IV is the area of home, family, roots, and deep emotions/sense of self-worth.

House IV in Capricorn

After working all his life to obtain his objectives and finally having reached that goal, he wants to retire in peace and quiet and to have a retirement full of contemplation, with few tasks, close to nature. As he was very careful with money all his life, he will administer the properties he has acquired.

House V is the area of creative self-expression, romance, entertainment, children, and gambling.

House V in Aquarius

Doesn’t like routine and the banal. He is romantic, full of fantasy and imagination. He is also a friend one can count on.

House VI is the area of learning by material transaction.

House VI in Pisces

Weak point: the kidneys.

House VII is the area of one-to-one relationships such as marriage and partnership, and of social and intellectual action.

House VII in Aries

Love-at-first-sight, marries without thinking. Doesn’t want to change his habits, so domestic quarrels to be foreseen.

House VIII is the area of emotional security and of security of the soul.

House VIII in Taurus

Happy old age, natural death. Inheritance.

House IX is the area of learning that shapes the identity.

House IX in Gemini

Likes studying, is open to anything new, accepts and recognizes his errors, always develops in a positive sense. Likes travel, discovery, meeting new people and knows how to appreciate them.

House X is the area of material action. The Mid-heaven represents the work one will do in his life, the place one will take in the world of society. It becomes more important as one grows older

House X in Cancer

Professional success thanks to sense of duty and application to his work.

House XI is the area of search for social and intellectual security.

House XI in Leo

Friends are not always chosen by chance. Even if the feelings of friendship are sincere, these friends must automatically bring something – professional help for example.

House XII is the area of education and of emotion.

House XII in Virgo

Work in a research lab.

____

How would a chart know that I worked in a research lab? How would a chart know that I am set to receive an inheritance shortly? How would a chart know that I married without thinking, in a courthouse, and that my refusal to change has caused disharmony in our marriage? Or that I have long said, since I was a child, that I would never stop being a student? Or that the number one thing people say about me when asked is that I am trustworthy, and honorable? This is what was scary and awful.

Do your chart online, it’s free. Then we’ll talk. I am a she, by the way. I did not reveal my gender. I only revealed my birth date, birth time, and birth location.

I must add that I had my husband run his chart so I could examine it – and his speaks of an inheritance as well. His also speaks of foreign countries, and one of the things we talk about most as a couple is leaving this country and settling elsewhere. Just saying.

@squirbel – do you have a link? I’ll run mine, post the houses, and we can go through that as well.

Research lab is uncanny, but for some reason isn’t explained like the others, so I’m not sure on that one.

Most people have an inheritance at some point in their life, so that’s actually a pretty safe bet to make.

“Married without thinking” could be read as you have to mean “quickly” or many people would read it as “foolishly” if they for instance had a divorce after their first marriage. So again, we’re probably covering over half the people and making this a safe bet. As far as the refusal to change causing disharmony, isn’t that true of anyone? We all compromise on some things and stand firm on others. When we pick our battles, there’s going to be disharmony.

I know your question is genuine, so I’m trying to give genuine answers.

I think when we read horoscopes or readings like this it’s a lot like when we read poetry or hear song lyrics. We instinctively apply them to our own situation and many of them fit. When we hear a love song, it’s about our loves, when we read a poem about battle and have never fought in one, it’s symbolic.

We make it fit, even if the author has never met us and it’s not about us at all.

I received my chart from here. You must know the exact time of your birth in order to get the “houses” reading. I have my hospital birth certificate so I knew mine.

I can see that it is true that the sayings can be read as generalized, but when I ran people’s charts outside of my husband’s, it matched each of their lives by their own admission. I met this guy recently, who was an old friend of my brother’s, I got them back in contact with each other, and when he expressed an interest in the weird stuff like voodoo, I felt he was a good candidate for my research. So I asked him if I could run his chart. He obliged, and among the many things that were said about him, and he agreed, it said he was going to spend a long time in prison. During the whole conversation he kept saying “I feel so violated”. I pushed further and asked him about the prison statement. He said “Do you know why I lost contact with your brother? I just got out after a 12 year stint. I’m still adjusting to things and life. That’s why I looked at you funny when you stuck out your hand to shake.”

I also queried several others, and they all said some rendition of “I feel violated”. None of their charts read even close to what mine read. None of them were generalistic.

This confuses me.

All of the stuff that you mentioned in your chart are generalities that can apply to anyone. You “turn” them into specifics by coming up with your own examples from your own life.

Again, try playing the game with any set of horoscopes from any paper or magazine and have someone else remove the sign titles and try to pick out your own. All of the descriptions will have things that fit you, and all of them will have a few things that don’t (that you throw out). You can always think of some situation in your own life that makes the descriptions fit, and you throw out the ones that don’t. It works for all of us. Try it.

I haven’t thrown anything out, though. Explain that?

And what are you inheriting? Surely not some knickknacks from your parents or their life insurance money? Because I’m not.

What is it all about? When we think we know it all, that is when we know less than we thought we did. You could study all the sciences all your life and just barely if at all scratch the surface on the knowledge available in any field. Just enjoy what you do find and keep on searching the quest never ends.

In your “research” you’re essentially running experiments without a control, which will always lead to misleading results and defeats the whole purpose. To do it scientifically, you should design a double-blinded test involving people trying to choose their horoscope from an array of many others. Experiments should be capable of falsifying a given hypothesis.

Here’s a link that discusses a 1985 double-blinded study published in Nature that “was designed specifically to test whether astrologers can do what they say they can do.” Here’s a link to the article on Nature where you could pay $18 to read the article. I didn’t bother, but if hardcore scientific data is important to you, it might be worth buying.

Asrology is a science that was shot down by the church (catholic).

Which makes it extremely amusing to see people who are staunch atheists supporting the church on this one.

Of course I am not saying the newspaper horoscope is for real. That of course is pure generalities.

@KonanBarbarian Atheists don’t “support the church on this one.” Athiests tend not to believe in things without evidence. There is little to no evidence that there is merit to the claims made by Astrologers. It just so happens that the Catholic church denounced astrology, but that was likely not because of a lack of evidence and more on the basis that it could usurp spiritual authority from the Church/Pope. The Catholic church has a dark history of not sharing spiritual authority well with other groups.

@gorillapaws Of course there is plenty of evidence to indicate that astrology is a science and not just a parlor trick.

you are correct about the reason why the church dumped on astrology!

I don’t know if this will disprove my “see yourself in anything” theory or not, but I see very little of myself in my reading.

Here’s my houses for comparison, I’ll skip #1 because it’s pretty long and really general.

House II – A cautious approach to money and personal finances, possessions. Financial success may be slow but steady.

not me at all, cautious doesn’t really jive with starting your own business I think, I really enjoy poker and generally think of financial things in terms of risk/reward as opposed to just risk

House III – Ideas are somewhat changeable, and his humor as well. Travel, sea voyages or work connected with the sea.

Not sure what “ideas and humor being changeable” means. I build websites for small businesses so can’t see the connection to the sea as of yet.

House IV – Lots of authority within the family. He knows how to take the destiny of the family in hand. He is very energetic, very strong, knowing how to cope with life’s setbacks.

okay, my families destiny is safe? Not sure what this actually means

House V – A pleasant home, a charming wife, loving and sweet children, nice little meals, pleasant evenings with the loved one, that’s the good life.

my wife is pleased that she is charming, but I’m hoping for a little more from my life as a whole, this doesn’t ring true

House VI – Completely trusted at work. Knows how to keep a secret and is of irreproachable honesty. Weak point: the throat.

I hope they trust me at work, since it’s just me half the time and the other half is me and someone I bring in on the project. Stop eyeing my throat.

House VII – Marries quite young, and divorces later. A second marriage doubtless with less passion but a lot of friendship. Frightened of living alone in old age.

Married at 25, so I don’t know if that qualifies, my wife was sad to hear we would divorce, but was glad the next girl gets less passion. Does anyone long to be alone in old age?

House VIII – Small inheritances.

I hope they spend every dime…

House IX – He is devoted to all causes that bring comfort or help to people in difficulty.

True enough, but again I wonder what the counter to this is

House X – Contacts of all kinds will lead to social success, professional, through marriage etc… Likes society life, friendships that could help professionally. Sometimes jobs connected with justice, but always involved with important and influential people.

This sounds too much like “uses friends to get ahead”, I really hope that’s not me. “Society life” is pretty funny though

House XI – Adores to debate endlessly with friends who don’t share his ideas. The discussion can lead to words, even a certain verbal violence.

I don’t mind discussion, but debate always feels like people are arguing for points, if you’re settled in your way of thinking and I disagree, we’re more likely to just move on than continue

House XII – Work in the police field, likes investigating other people’s private lives.

Couldn’t be further from the truth, we’ll leave it at that

So mine doesn’t really fit, I broke out the birth certificate and everything.

More important, do you notice how most are worded to fit a majority of people, usually in a positive light, and fairly ambiguously? How many actual predictions do we have, and how many are right?

For mine I have
– Travel, sea voyages or work with the sea
– marries quite young and divorces later
– likes friends and people to have influence
– works in police field

For me, they struck out assuming I don’t divorce later. (“We were doomed by the stars”)

For you I see

- marries without thinking
– natural death
– work in a research lab

So, maybe 3 for 3? Natural death is kind of the odds on favorite and “marries without thinking” could mean a lot of things, but the research lab thing is uncanny if that’s exactly what you do.

So far astrology is slightly worse off than a coin flip.

@squirbel Oh my goodness, where did I “debase” you? All I asked you was what kind of scientist you were? Jeez.

@KonanBarbarian “Of course there is plenty of evidence to indicate that astrology is a science and not just a parlor trick.”

Do you have links to any studies showing a positive correlation? I’d be curious to see them if they’re out there.

@gorillapaws In India, astrology is taught in some universities as a science. ..... a b H.J. Eysenck & D.K.B. Nias

Feb 4, 2011… Astrology, the study of interplanetary alignments as the explanation for everything, is a credible science, an Indian court has ruled.

And of course we all know that astrology is based on the scientific observation of how people act correlated to when they were born. These observations were made over hundreds and thousands of years.

Sorry my friend, I know how hard it is to accept this fact in the face of all you have been programmed to believe.

The particular time of the year that my parents decided to conceive me has nothing to do with my current personality.

@KonanBarbarian – hundreds of thousands of years… you don’t say…

@KonanBarbarian the fact that Astrology is taught in India isn’t evidence. Hell, witches (albinos) are killed by villagers in parts of Africa—that’s not evidence that Albinos are all evil witches.

I’m perfectly willing to take a look at some real data, such as a well controlled, double-blinded studies that demonstrate the efficacy of Astrology’s claims. It would be a reletively easy and inexpensive study to conduct, so I’m sure they may be out there if Astrology isn’t bogus.

Were there flaws that you found in the study by Nature that might have affected the outcome?

The barbarian has flown the coop.

Most people on here are pretty ignorant of Astrology, Astrology is a hybrid, it is half science/half psychology, like the Centaur, which is associated with the Constellation Sagittarius.

@mammal

And astrology is about as real as centaurs.

How did this thread go past cold reading? Astrology speaks in generalizations and often relies on before hand knowledge.

I remember watching Penn and Teller’s Bullshit and they had some astrologers and people were SOOOO impressed, but what they didn’t get was their friend had spoken to the astrologer and given some information about the friend (without knowing they had divulged). The other one gave a reading to a woman and was COMPLETELY WRONG because they took away one of the variables away from cold reading by door to door astrologers (location).

When James Randi believes it, I will too.

It isn’t a science, if you can’t rationally model and understand the fundamental mechanics of it.

Therefore, as an inherently unknowable force, it must be magic.

Astrology is a hybrid, it is half science/half psychology

LOL!

Possible? Sure. I would allow for the fact that as the earth is always in a new place in the universe every moment, maybe there are some “cosmic” influences at that particular position that have some sort of impact on all life. Does it manifest itself in a personality trait? Sure, it could be possible. But foxes, bears, and fish must also be influenced too. Have we solved this complex equation? Hell no, not even close.

Also, there’s no way we could correctly model the influences of all celestial bodies on human attributes and behavior without a general n-body solution for celestial mechanics. We don’t have that yet and it may not be possible to derive one.

And why are humans so special? If you cast a horoscope for a cat born at the same instant at the same spot as a human, do they have the same horoscope? If not, is there a way to adjust the horoscope to work for cats (or dandelions, paramecia, or Giant Balloon Aliens From Jupiter)? If so, what is the relation between the adjusted factors and the species?

Astrology is not science and never will be. It cannot explain cause and effect. Refuting astrology is easy. Seasons do have an influence on pregnant women, though, and hormonal changes affect the unborn baby. Distant stars don’t.