Is it rude to ask an older woman her age, in front of a bunch of people, if you have no real need to know?

Yep. I think it ranks up there with asking her weight.

Yes.

It is always rude to ask someone their age. If it happens to you, just smile in a sphinx-like way and say, “A lady never reveals her age in public.”

It is rude to ask anyone their age if you have no need to know it. Unless it is your job to card people at the bar or C store.

What age woman and who are the people?

Hey @Dutchess_III how old are you?

KMA Bob!

It’s rude to ask personal questions,especially in front of a group of people.

I thought it was also rude to ask her in private if you had no real need to know.

@MyNewtBoobs: it is still rude to ask in private but at least then you can swat them across the top of the head with no witnesses.

When people ask me, even though I have no problems revealing my age or anything, I’m just a damned blabbermouth if there seems no reason, I ask “Why do you want to know?” because, yeah, asking for any personal information without a need to know is just rude.

“if you have no real need to know?”
You answered your own question, although I don’t agree with the societal notion that it’s unacceptable to ask a woman her age. That’s asinine.

@Blackberry I can see the argument for being asinine. However, having known more than my fair share of older women who are horribly, horribly, psychotically insecure about their age, I feel that it’s easier to just abide by the rule (antiquated though it may be) than start a shitstorm the size of Hurricane Katrina.

I agree with @MyNewtBoobs. This is really one of those things that it is probably best to avoid calling someone out on their insecurities. Weight and age are common things that women are insecure about, and it’s just best to avoid touchy subjects.

@MyNewtBoobs Rude either way,but when someone does that in front of others it puts that person even more on the spot.

“How short are you?” is the one that gets me. What, I’m not tall enough for the ride?

@Dutchess_III

“KMA Bob!”

Is that Kick, Kiss, or Know? ;-p

@Blackberry And why do you disagree “with the societal notion that it’s unacceptable to ask a woman her age.” Why do you feel it’s asinine?

@MyNewtBoobs why do you feel that any woman who really doesn’t want to broadcast her age must be horribly, horribly, psychotically insecure?

Well, Jill, how short ARE you?

@Brian1946 it’s KISS! KISS M A bob_!

@Dutchess_III : I don’t wanna tell cuz you won’t let me on the ride if you know. And I wanna go on the ride!!!!

@Dutchess_III I don’t feel that way. I’m talking about very specific women here, with names and faces in mind, and some of them loose their shit on other trivial matters, and others seem to have it together except on age. But I’m not saying any woman who doesn’t want to reveal it is psychotic, I’m saying that there are some women who don’t want to reveal it and are psychotic about it.

It’s a persoanl thing, no way to answer for that particular person.
Wouldn’t bother me a bit!
I happily disclose my age, not because I am hung up on getting any sort of ” ooh, you don’t look that old” ( I think I look my age, what’s wrong with that? I AM getting older, duh! ) but BECAUSE, I am truly proud I have made it to the age of wisdom! lol

I kinda like it, like counting the age rings on a tree…not that I want anyone counting wrinkles. lol

If you have no real need to know then why bother even asking in the first place. It could be seen as rude and insensitive. Age is just a number to me but to some it matters a great deal to be seen as old, so why would you want to embarrass someone that way,

Would you want someone to look at your worst flaw and point it out to you in front of everyone?

@MyNewtBoobs Yes, I see! I’m not one of those. I’m just not happy about what’s finally happening after 50 years even though I’ve always known it would…I’m just on the cusp and it’s….sad. It hurt.

@creative1 Exactly! Although…getting older isn’t a “flaw” really…

@Coloma I feel that way too…proud of what I’ve done with my life but this society doesn’t tend to put any value on “wisdom and experience”. Nothing in this society is more important than youth and beauty.

To some women time going by is a flaw they can’t stop, aging is the worst possible thing to them

Older women have had it drummed into them since childhood in various ways that once over a certain age, they no longer count as beautiful or sexual, are no longer considered to have anything to contribute besides cooking and babysitting the grandkids and are no longer “with it” enough to participate in the larger culture, unless they are so far outside the norm as to be noteworthy, like a Halle Berry.

Obviously, not everyone would treat them in such a rude way, but in the larger society, aging for women is almost considered a cultural crime. I mean, there’s a reason why there actually has to be a law prohibiting age discrimination starting at 40 – and for men too, when employers don’t feel like paying a man with a lot of experience what he’s worth.

When is that going to change?

@MyNewtBoobs I don’t care how old people are, so I have no need to cause the shit storm, but I’m not just going to accept it because it makes people uncomfortable. I would not hesitate to ask a woman her age if I ever felt the need to ask (and I have in the past only to receive this shit storm). Let’s just stop criticizing opponents against gay marriage because we could possibly offend their beliefs while we’re at it lol.

@Dutchess_III It’s trivial. I’m not saying we should make thousands of women uncomfortable by outing such top secret information, but I’m just saying it’s fucking ridiculous. You (we) get old and you get ugly and die, get over it (not you, but people).

@Dutchess_III

Screw society, all that matters is that WE place value on ourselves! I am far to secure and savvy these days to give a flying flip what others and ‘society’ think! lol

I think there is nothing sadder than a fading bloom that can’t handle the reality of her petals having wilted some.

Jeez…you better value yourself for more than your youthful good looks or you’re gonna be one miserable human being sooner or later. Gawd…you couldn’t PAY me enough to go back to my 20’s, 30’s…life does begin at 40 and it just gets better and better, minus the sagging body parts. haha

@Blackberry Wow….so embarrassing someone doesn’t mean shit to you because… why? Their feelings of embarrassment or discomfort are… wrong maybe? Wow. How long have you been so insensitive and arrogant? Were you born with that harelip, BTW?

@Coloma I know…I’ve just been having a crappy time here, probably losing my job at the end of summer due to budget cuts and…just other stuff. It was just bad timing. It probably wouldn’t bother me so much it it wasn’t just one more thing reminding me that I won’t be able to start over forever any more.

PS. For what it’s worth, I HAVE no sagging body parts Coloma! Tell us about yours! Ha ha!!

BK said it in PM best…it’s one thing if someone close to your age is asking it. But when a 25-something asks it in a room full of 18-somethings and you’re the only mature person in there….that sucked.

@Blackberry Not quite what I’m saying. If there is no reason to ask, then why cause problems? I have no issue asking if there’s actually a need to know. Gay marriage, there’s a huge reason to bring it up. This seems more comparable to asking someone how their last bowel movement was than trying to strive for equal rights and more love in the world. And I’m not talking about uncomfortable, either. I’m talking about people pulling the car over and kicking you out because you didn’t emphatically agree that they looked younger than the woman their ex ran off with (who’s 20 years younger than they are), or starting to scream at you, or becoming even more anorexic because your curiosity and nothing else needed to be satisfied.

@Dutchess_III If you act like you’re really concerned with age, constantly trying to look much younger, people will think you’re concerned with age, not wisdom. But if you don’t act like age/beauty is everything in the world to you, people will realize you have wisdom and listen to you – just look at @Jeruba, @gailcalled, and @Coloma!

@MyNewtBoobs I know. Like I said, just bad timing and…it just was rude.

@Dutchess_III

I hear ya, I am in yet another ‘re-invention- phase too. Well..lets see, my left breast seems to be losing gravity a wee bit faster than the right, they are a little off these days. lolol

Face..meh…it’ll have to do, not going under the knife for that wattle in progess and the ‘puppet’ lines are happenin’ more too this last year or so.—Hey, I smile, a LOT!—

What else, I have chronically calloused elbows from habitually leaning on my deck rails…haha and…..my nose seems to be getting wider…old lady nose coming!

Go to last nights question..” What do you think of during sex” and I posted a hilarious youtube video about us ‘boomers.’ :-)

Oh…and my hands are starting to get puffy veins…like my grandma. haha

There!

Full disclosure…I might think of more, gimme a minute, ya know the short term memory thing creepeth up too! :-)

So what if someone’s appearance and age are important to them? That is their business guys. It doesn’t mean they are superficial or lacking in inner knowledge or any other negative things you can dream up. It means a beautiful woman is passing into another phase of her life and hasn’t gotten used to the changes yet.

IMHO, it makes it more difficult when you work and socialize around arrogant, rude and superficial young adults. Come to Florida @Dutchess_III and be the youngster again with real aging beauties. Tact and manners are ageless.

If there’s no reason to ask, why ask at all? Age, weight, height, religious or political affiliation, marital status, number of siblings, even if there’s a cookie in your pocket, why ask?

@bkcunningham Usually, if someone’s so concerned with age/appearance that they do their hair and makeup before going to the gym or gardening or something where they’ll have to shower after, they don’t really have the time and energy to also acquire wisdom and knowledge. People have limits on their energy and time.

@JilltheTooth How about “what size are your boobs?”

@Dutchess_III I don’t walk around breaking social norms. I don’t care to offend women by asking their age. The times I have done it, the person was aware of the innocuousness of the question and playfully retorted (It depends how well you know the person) . I was unaware the reactions @MyNewtBoobs explained were abound. I’m not going to comment on the people with such unhealthy reactions to such a trivial question, either. I was also unaware I had a harelip…...how bad is it?

@MyNewtBoobs See above.

Don’t ask age, weight, do you dye your hair, are your boobs real, or have you ever had an abortion.

@BarnacleBill

That’s a good list.

I would add, “Are you pregnant?”.

@MyNewtBoobs lol. You can’t speak for all women. I know women who have wisdom and knowledge and get their asses out of bed every morning shower, put on their makeup and do their hair before they go for a morning walk. They are well groomed, thoughtful, intelligent, kind, creatures of habits.

On the other hand, I know granola women who wouldn’t know their ass from a hole in the ground and they don’t have any kindness or thoughtfulness in them. They are arrogant self-centered creatures.

Vice-versa on my examples AND the same for men.

Appearances are very deceiving.

Si.

@bkcunningham I totally agree with what you have said. My mom, until she got really sick in October, at age 80 still got up everyday, put on slacks and a nice ironed blouse, makeup, fixed her hair and sometimes put in earrings, just to sit around the house. It wasn’t about age for her, it was about feeling good about herself.

Absolutely – it is rude.

her bra size, however, is perfectly ok.

Who the hell talks to old women? If you do, it’s best to be subtle—maybe “I’ll bet you don’t weigh more than thrice your age.”

@ratboy

Nice show of respect there, well done!

I guess I am one of those people who has no problem with people asking me my age. I don’t understand why people take such issue with such an innocent question. After I know someone awhile, I like to know their age. (shakes head in disbelief)

@chyna, I think it makes them feel good about themselves too. I really admire that. I admire your grandmother just for the tenacity to care about her appearance and feeling confident and good about herself.

I made a friend at one of our community pools who is an 84 year old widow. She’d come and swim every night at 8 p.m. She had been a school teacher, wife and mother. I hadn’t seen her at the pool for a few weeks and went to her house to check on her. She was all dressed up with her jewelry, makeup and even her shoes – sitting by herself.

She’d just had a lung removed two weeks earlier. But there she sat, reading. Simply beautiful and confident and proud and smart and keeping her mind active.

@tinyfaery “after I get to know someone awhile.” That is the important part. I don’t have a problem with my age either and neither does @Dutchess_III. It is about couth.

I’ve never understood this taboo about asking a woman her age. Pretty silly if you ask me.

Yes its rude.
@Coloma, I’m there with you except for the part of reaching the age of wisdom. I know plenty of people my age or older who have made it their personal mission to avoid anything that resembles wisdom and I’m pretty sure they will die without ever knowing what wisdom would’ve felt like.
As a matter of fact, there has been times when I wanted to know someones age because I was curious as to how long have they been able to survive without having others gobble them up.
I know its rude, but usually by the time I ask, I really don’t care if they get offended.

If people are offended, they have a right to their feelings.

For myself, if I know someone well, they can ask and I will ask them in return, and it’s all good. If I don’t know someone well, it may or may not bother me, depending on how chummy we are. It’s one of those questions that it’s best not to ask. The OP specified “if you have no real need to know?” If I have no real need to know, I’ll just take a guess in my mind.

I dunno..I just see it as a one of those silly, outdated, vanity things.
I mean, how does not telling your age change it? lol

It depends on context, I suppose. Like everything else. On its face, apropos of nothing, yes, it’s considered to be rude in Western society. On the other hand, there are times when it’s not only appropriate but required: at a bar or liquor store (“package store” in New England, for some reason best asked and answered in another question), at the Social Security office or AARP or other age-based places. Or even at a place of employment, if the woman in question is or appears to be on the low end of the “permitted employment” age range.

It’s an appropriate question for a doctor to ask, but not in front of others unless the woman has invited the others into the exam room (or the doctor has a nurse or aide present).

It’s an appropriate question for a life insurance sales person to ask, since life insurance actuarial tables are primarily age-based.

Okay…I fess up, I am really 82. ;-)

@Coloma Well you have the energy of a 45 year old ;)

@MyNewtBoobs

I’m too damn onery to die! lol

@bkcunningham Not all women, perhaps. But I know how to spot the ones that can do good makeup and hair quickly, vs the ones that take quite some time to get ready. I know what hairstyles can be done overnight, or in 5 minutes, and which ones take at least 30 minutes to do every single time. And I’m not talking about women who slap on some rouge and colored chapstick in a minute and a half before going for a walk that they can simply change clothes after, I’m talking about women who need their hair to be perfectly hot-ironed, and a full set of makeup (moisturizer, foundation, powder, rouge, several eye shadows, eye liner, mascara, bronzer, lipstick, lip gloss) before doing a huge cardio workout after which they’ll have to take a shower. If you spend 3 hours a day on your appearance, you’re not spending those 3 hours a day reading a book.

I am proud of my age, it is my red badge of courage! And I love when people say OMG, you’re kidding because I always assume they thought I was much younger, hehehe!

@MyNewtBoobs

Well said, yeah, I can play dress up really well, but, my natural state is where I prefer to dwell a solid , mmmm…I’d say 70% of the time.

I wear little makeup and think I look like a hooker when I use mascara and eye shadow. lol

@Coloma My makeup routine involves a lip & cheek stain (that half the time I do at this one really long stop light, because it takes 15 seconds for me to do it), plus concealer if I’ve got some big new blemish and I’m really bugged by it. Going out to the opera involves some powder and maybe mascara if I’m feeling special. And of course, liberal amounts of chapstick. But I don’t look any better if I do the whole thing, so I don’t.

Well duh? I think this topic is covered in Miss Manner’s etiquette book. Unless the woman is having a birthday, and her specific age is known, it’s pretty rude to ask her how old she is, especially in front of other people. It’s similar to asking people if they dye their hair, shave their upper lip (if they’re women) or have problems with impotency.

Why wouldn’t you know that? And why do you need to know? It’s also similar to asking, “Have you always been this fat?” or “You do know that your breath stinks?” or “Are you aware that one of your breasts appears to be much smaller than the other one, have you had a mastectomy?’

Believe it or not, people are very sensitive to these types of questions. Most women, attempt to try to appear their best, which in this day and age, usually equates with As young as you can get away with, No one wants to get old, and with women, age is not equated with wisdom in the same way as it can be with men. It usually just means that you are beyond your prime and you have lost your usefulness. No one wants to be reminded of that. Men are described as being distinguished in their golden years. Women are just described as old.

Until that double standard disappears, Yes, it is rude to ask about a woman’s age.

Could this be a generational thing? I’ve never understood the taboo about this either. I am however old I am, whether I give voice to it or not. I feel the same about my weight, actually. Clearly, I’m the same size whether or not you know my actual poundage. Curiosity is a good enough reason for someone to ask me. Of course, as you all likely know by now, I’ll tell anybody any-damn-thing.

Note: Even though that’s how I feel, I don’t go around purposely doing things that other people find rude. Most of the time.

@augustlan Probably. There seem to be huge generational gaps regarding what’s appropriate to talk about – age, weight, money, why you broke up with someone, how people are in the sack, family affairs, sex, reproductive and other bodily functions, etc. The younger generations seem to have a “better out than in” philosophy, but I know that was the exact opposite of what I was taught.

Only two people (herself aside) should know a lady’s age. Her coroner & her tree surgeon…...“let’s count those rings love.” It’s only right & proper after all.

I have to laugh at myself, because I’m definitely not in the ‘younger generations’. I’m 43! I’m pretty sure I was taught at some point that it was rude, I just never really understood why it would be.

@WasCy: you gave good examples of when a woman would need to reveal her age, but the OP asked specifically about times when you would not need to know, meaning, I take it, “just to be nosy.” Being proofed, or on a form such as insurance or doctor are absolutely reasons when someone would need to know, and it’s not asking just for the sake of asking.

Not long ago on Fluther, a question was asked if it’s inappropriate to ask someone what nationality they are. Many people answered yes, it’s absolutely wrong to ask someone what nationality they are. I am not sure who answered that way, and it’s late and I’m not searching for it now but I am at a loss why some in this thread responded with such flippant answers describing it as “silly vanity things,” “silly,” “asinine” regarding a woman being offended at being asked her age, in other words, someone has zero reason to be offended when asked her age, yet it’s absolutely wrong to ask someone their nationality. If I’m not describing this correctly, what I mean is “people should be offended when asked their nationality, yet it’s totally ok and women are foolish for being offended when we ask them their age.”

@augustlan : You young whippersnapper!

How about this:

If you know deep down you’re asking someone a question in order to put them in a box, to stop getting to know that individual as an individual and make assumptions out of hand about them based on their age or where they come from or where they went to school, then DON’T BLOODY WELL ASK!

People don’t realize that they sometimes ask questions with exactly that intention in mind, and that’s where it can come off feeling rude to the askee.

I appreciate all the responses.

I’m feeling much better today…yesterday I was in a funk and being made the center of attention, made the butt end of a joke between young people, by someone older whom I trusted and who should have known better, didn’t help.

To those who said you don’t understand what the big deal is…I always said / felt the same thing, until about 5 years ago. I’m on the other side and now I understand. It kind of hurts starting to lose the “sexy,” all the ease of being young. Maybe others don’t feel like I do, but I feel that, especially around kids, I need to maintain a certain decorum that I didn’t need to when I was young…whether I feel like maintaining that decorum or not.

I have one student whom I always have to holler at to turn down his headphones. If I can hear it from 10 feet away, then he’s imposing on other students!
Recently he’s been trying to find out what kind of music I like, to see if he had it on his Ipod. I started out with Aerosmith….didn’t have any (WHAT?). Then I said, TLC (Waterfalls)...didn’t have any. Today he asked again so I said, “Led Zepplin.” He says, “All your songs are old!”
“OK then, Bob Seagar.”
“Who?”
Geez! Then he says, “Bon Jovi?”
I said, “Yeah. Steel Horse. That’s a great song!”
About 20 minutes later I go to assist and….no Steel Horse, but Sweet Child is faintly playing on his headphones. He holds them up for me to hear and I nod & grin…“Good song!” (I don’t mention that that song reminds of the last time I ever pulled an all nighter….two nights in a row! Didn’t know I still had it in me then!)
Then a little later I go to assist and he has some song BLASTING from his headphones (which are lying on the table because seriously, it was too loud for him to put on his ears) He’s looking at me slyly, and I picked them up, held them a foot away from my ear for a sec, laughed and said, “I LOVE that song! Now turn it down!” It was Funky Colmadena. Well, people, ten years ago I would have started some dance moves! And I was tempted to today but…I felt that would be inappropriate….for my age. I felt I’d make a fool out of myself, even though I can still dance! So…that’s just me. I hate it when older people try to act like they’re kids…and they’re not.

No need to rub it in.

Having said that, it IS all about context. I was made the butt end of a joke. Not cool.

@Blackberry: Re: Your hairlip. It isn’t that bad. Don’t worry. Some of my best friends have hairlips! : >~

@Dutchess_III – the thing is, with me and I think with you as well, it is not older people trying to act like kids, it is me acting like me! And no one of any age is ever going to stop me from doing that. Now I am going to put on the wildest colored boardies I have, a neon singlet, hop on my bright red yamaha scooter and go to the beach, that is the real 66 year old me being me, not imitating anyone!

Have fun and stop worrying, it isn’t worth it.

Be glad you made it to the 2nd half!

@Dutchess_III

The music thing, that is just that one kid. My daughter is 23 and is a huge fan of the 70’s rock bands. She LOVES Led Zeppelin, Grateful Dead, on & on. She was playing Zeppelin tunes on her electric guitar at 15 and she rocked! lol

When I get ‘funky’ these days it is about being TIRED, and still having to make money. I really want to be retired and just do stuff like play with the puppies at the animal shelter. haha

I agree..have fun, but don’t act like an ‘old fool’!

I was at a music thing awhile back and a woman in her 50’s was drunk and started dancing on the bar..I was so embaressed for her. Gawd…hate to tell ya honey, but your stripper days are looong gone! lol

P.S. Glad you’re feeling better..I am wasted today…lol as in, exhausted ;-)

@Coloma – does anyone of any age and stature look good drunk and dancing on a bar???

@rooeytoo

hahaha..well…no, actually.

@Dutchess_III Best response I ever heard to that line was from my HS home economics teacher. One of my classmates asked her how old she was in study hall.

She replied ‘Old enough to bust your balls and not break a sweat.’

@rooeytoo my dart partner did at 50 and got a $100 dollar tip. Someone thought she looked good.

@WestRiverrat – there is an aussie country western singer, Adam Harvey, who sings a song called “Beauty is in the eyes of the beer holder.” Guess that could apply in some instances.

ROFL you guys!!!! @WestRiverrat If it had been one of my students who had actually asked, instead of someone else who was also in the room and who asked in front of all of them I might have snapped off something like that!

@rooeytoo I’m with you on the beach party among friends but…as a teacher I still feel I have to….. hold back. Present a certain front to…. maintain respect. I mean..would you “put on the wildest colored boardies (you) have, a neon singlet, hop on (your) bright red Yamaha (corrected y to Y there) scooter” and go to the beach where your students were, and be ready to present as authority on Monday morning? (What’s a bordie?)

Doing it ‘cause you really feel like it s one thing, but some people….do it to try and “prove” they still have “it.” I just hate it when older people really push it…like wearing mini-skirts and bikinis and…..their teenager’s clothes, you know? I can’t quite put my finger on what I’m trying do say. Can someone help me here?

I wear mini skirts (well what was called a mini in my day which was a bit above the knee, not these wide belts they call skirts these days!) and bikini tops (I prefer boardies on the bottom!) but I hear what you are saying, I am not sure how it would work in front of the students. But it seems as if your time is yours and you should be able to do (within reason) what you want without it affecting your position of authority.

I have a sense of propriety (which I have been criticized for in fluther) and I dress and live to that sense. I will agree some people’s sense of propriety is a hell of a lot different than mine! In Australia where the european sensibilities seem more prevalent, many oldies wear speedos and bikinis on the beach and no one looks twice. I don’t think they are trying to prove anything and I am sure not, I think it is dressing for comfort.

@Dutchess_III I think the word you are looking for is decorum. I too cannot stand it when women of a certain age (and it’s obvious that they are of a certain age) try to wear fashions that are too young for them. I really don’t want to see a sagging midriff with a belly ring dangling from the sag. I’m not thrilled when those same women decide to get tatoos either. Yikes! Or wear bright purple glitter toe nail polish. On a young woman or a teenager those things look cute, on 40 somethings they may or may not look OK, on 50 somethings they look down right foolish. I always get the feeling that they are trying to show off.

@rooeytoo what you’re saying about your own time is true, but depending on the industry you’re in…sometimes you just need to be aware. Like, poor Missus Obama…she can’t put on her boardies (what are bordies?) and short shorts and jump on her Honda and go to the beach, flashing her tatts, even on her own time! That’s an unfair comparison but….it just depends. Depends.

@Kardamom Exactly! There is a difference between doing what you really feel like doing, and doing something because you think it makes you look young and hip….

@Dutchess_III OMG! My S/O has a huge crush on Michelle Obama. He would love to see her in short shorts riding on mo-mo. Guess he never will : (

I actually cut out a picture of the President, sans shirt, swimming in Hawaii. Somebody was working out : )

Cheers ladies! This glass of Pino Noir is for us bright and savvy old girls! ;-)

@Kardamom—Yeah!!!! But…the pic would NOT have been the same if it had been Joe Biden, shirtless in Hawaii! I love the concept that the fact that our president is downright sexy means he ain’t really got brains. It’s the old “she can’t be beautiful AND smart” stereotype….

@Coloma Yes, and shall meet you girls out here on the patio! (Pino Noir? What about Natty??)

@Dutchess_III

Oooh, that is an awesome outdoor fireplace…is it your yard?

I have a Kiva, it is small but cozy. :-)

@Dutchess_III I’m pretty sure ‘boardies’ = board shorts (surfer shorts).

Thank you @augustlan, that is correct. Boardies are quite modest, just usually a bit garish, I love them!

I think Missus O could do just that if she chose, maybe she doesn’t because Mr O wouldn’t approve, society probably wouldn’t care although her ss detail might have a hell of a chore keeping up with her scooter.

@Dutchess_III You are so right about the picture I cut out. I think Bill Clinton is one of the most brilliant minds of our time (although I still hold him accountable for his affairs), but I’ve seen pictures of him and Hil on a beach. Not pretty. LOL. Hmmm, never really thought about Biden in that way, now I’ll have to try to not think about that. John Kerry and John Kennedy were quite fit in their youth.

And yeah, why can’t someone be smart and good looking? Obama seems to have pulled it off (oops I didn’t mean literally, he he)

@Kardamom – the problem is skin loses its elasticity with age, it just doesn’t fit as well. I have been almost skinny and fit all of my life but at my age now, despite the fact I am still skinny and fit, my skin just does not fit as nicely so if you saw me in my bikini top, it might be a look you would try to forget, but I reckon that is your problem not mine!!! sorry, heheheh!

@rooeytoo I think you look just fine. I look similar. He He.

It’s funny too, because in my youth, would have never been attracted to men that were middle aged or older. Now I think they’re gorgeous! Hence my fascination with Patrick Stewart, Alan Rickman and Mark Harmon. Hubba hubba. President Obama is a spring chicken compared to those guys. LOL.

@Kardamom :-)

I was always told that asking a woman her age, regardless of how old or young she looks, is rude, crude, and socially unacceptable. My old pappy learned me that. Pappy wasn’t all there, but sometimes he made good sense.