Social Question

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

Do you know any women like what is described in this article? Do you think it is accurate, or just bitterness?

Asked by ANef_is_Enuf (23303 points ) June 29th, 2011

I came across this article this morning, and it blew me away. It’s pretty blunt, but I feel like it puts into words something that I’ve thought for a long time. I feel like I really do know women like this.

Am I jaded?
Do you know a woman or women like this?
Just curious to hear thoughts and opinions on the article, in general.

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66 Answers

Cruiser's avatar

Thankfully no…and frankly I would not even want to know the writer of the article as she seems like she could be one herself. Can’t get much more condescending than that!

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

@Cruiser yeah, I was a little stunned by the way the article was written. I think that may be why I questioned whether or not it was bitterness, or just true. I have thought these things myself many times in the past… but the way the article is written comes off as angry. And personal.

Cruiser's avatar

@ANef_is_Enuf I am almost positive it was just copy content to draw attention to her practice. Can’t imagine getting advice from her though.

zenvelo's avatar

I have known women who are close to that, but I wouldn’t consider it a pathology. One woman in particular so identified as the mother of her child that she told her boyfriend that if they married, she could not have a second child because she needed her energy to focus on her son, and a second child would be a distraction.

josie's avatar

My ex-wife. Almost a paragraph by paragraph match. I had to read the link twice just because I had never had my ex wife described so perfectly.
Now , when people ask why I got divorced I can give them the link.
In fact, I had a therapist tell me almost verbatim one of those quotes. He said, you have three children. Two are your sons. One is your wife.

bunnygrl's avatar

@zenvelo wow. I mean… just wow. I pity that woman’s child, a sibling would be a distraction? OMG.

I had a couple of male friends when I was at college, brothers, who had a mother who went everywhere with them. Seriously. We were quite a large group and we would organise social activities, trips to the cinema, etc which they could not join us at unless their mother came with them. She actively made sure that there were no romantic possibilities, girl friends but no girlfriends, if you see what I mean. She even went to class with them and sat downstairs in the students canteen all day while they attended classes, on their breaks like lunch they had to sit with her. I always thought that she was a one off, but after reading that article… maybe not.

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

@bunnygrl holy moly. Those poor kids!

Adirondackwannabe's avatar

@ANef_is_Enuf No you’re not jaded and yes I’ve come across a couple of these women as well. They make some really swell sociopaths.

Photosopher's avatar

The article lost me at #8, Kissy Duck Face syndrome. That’s just too scientifically technical for me to understand.

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

@Photosopher lol! I didn’t get the impression that this was meant to be a technical or clinical article… it stuck me more as “bloggy.” #8 made me laugh only because I’ve actually seen it.

ucme's avatar

No I don’t & what a relief that is. Those women are on a par with others who pour scorn on the notion that if men could get pregnant they’d be utterly useless. Just because you have a womb with a view doesn’t give you the right to play the big I am, now does it? XD

josie's avatar

I just read it again, and it gets more accurate with every reading. @ANef_is_Enuf Are you actually somebody I know, and you are trying to get me wound up today?
Nice try :)

bunnygrl's avatar

@ANef_is_Enuf that’s the thing though honey, they were both going into their early 20’s when we were at college. Some women should not be allowed to be mothers. Shouldn’t children be considered a gift? and surely there has to come a time when you let them go, and hope they bring back some lovely grandchildren for you to fuss over :-) Latching onto them like that is so unhealthy, not to mention that it must be unbearable (and humilitating.. I’ve been there on the outside looking in and seen what happened when she didn’t get her way) for the children.

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

@josie no, I swear I’m not. ;) I do really know someone that fits this description so perfectly that I was tempted to ask a question about it on Fluther, though, if that is any comfort.

@bunnygrl so true.

filmfann's avatar

The article is amusing, but I don’t know anyone like this.

marinelife's avatar

I think there are very few women life this.

Blondesjon's avatar

I read that and just kissed my wife.

I always knew I was lucky. I just never realized how lucky.

Judi's avatar

Holy Crap!! This author must know my sisters ex daughter in law! Described her to a tee!!

JLeslie's avatar

Wow. That is so extreme. I hope not too many women like that exist. I can see how some women touch on some of the characteristics described, but I really question labelling anyone as a GU. I hate when a term gets out there and then it is applied to anyone that acts a little bit like one of the characteristics. At the very top of the article it talks about mothers feeling as though they are the mom, and you are irrelevant. Some women do 95% of the parenting, and so when they begin to acknowledge they don’t give a shit what their husband or exhusband says about the children, it is because the man set it up that way. Of course, there are instances where men truly want to coparent and the women are just incredibly controlling, but I just think we have to know the whole circumstance before we judge a women on some of the things named in that article.

Having said that, some items in there are really disturbing.

Disobedience is Abuse, I see in many women, not just moms, and the women harms herself in my opinion. It is victim mentality from what I can figure.

I figure the woman described in that article has a severe anxiety disorder. Just my guess.

Hibernate's avatar

Love the

I think a GU wouldn’t get past the first few sentences before she began to defend her position by explaining why she, the mother, is the most important person in her child’s life and why she, better than anyone else, knows what is best for the child. Blurgh.

The information I provide isn’t for the people who need it the most. It’s for the people who have been hurt by the the people who need this information the most.

.. comment

Judi's avatar

I sent the article to my nephew. The author had to know his ex. The poor child is so torn and is showing signs of deep emotional trauma. He is chanting, thinking that if he prays just right he will find forgiveness. His mother makes him feel guilty for loving his dad, who until the divorce was his primary care giver. The woman is sick and manipulative. Like a really bad movie.

JLeslie's avatar

@Judi How old is he?

Judi's avatar

40 my great nephew is 11

OpryLeigh's avatar

I can think of quite a few women like this, it’s one of my pet hates.—Again I would like to refer the people of Fluther (who are not yet aware of it) to one of my favourite sites STFUParents

jonsblond's avatar

I knew by #3 that I’ve never met anyone like this, thankfully.

aw, @Blondesjon. I’m the lucky one. =)

JLeslie's avatar

@Judi And the 11 year old has the crazy mom? Ugh, so difficult to watch I am sure, for you and your nephew. Frustrating. I have to assume the mother has been hurt in a profound way. Is there any chance she abuses drugs or alcohol? I know that seems a little out of nowhere, but I just wonder concerning a situation I am close too. Even scripts like xanax?

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

I don’t know anyone like that but I imagine people with some of those characteristics might exist. I don’t appreciate the author conflating women with uteri even if they do believe that’s what the moms themselves are doing. Oh and really, there should be more articles about what fathers fail to understand about parenting and that ‘having her have the kid and raise it too’ isn’t the way it’s supposed to be. More men think they’re just ATM machines than their women do, in my opinion.

Blondesjon's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir . . . Well, as a woman, of course you do. You wouldn’t want to be labeled as some sort of Aunt Tom.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@Blondesjon As a woman (which I don’t identify as, but I’m pretty sure you’ll just ignore that), I of course do what?

Neizvestnaya's avatar

No, never yet.

Judi's avatar

@JLeslie, no drugs or alcohol, but she IS addicted to shopping.

Photosopher's avatar

“Are you frustrated with your wife or ex-wife’s attitude ”

The first line is telling…

In defense of the GU, let me first state that that’s all we need is another label to stand between the possibility of either reconciliation or at least a civil divorce, child custody, and generally just getting along with life in the easiest manner possible.

I read it again and really believe this article is nothing more than flame bate. It describes exactly the woman that we want to believe in, to justify our own position in the matter.

Though I’ve never heard the term Golden Uterus before, I was very pleased to learn of and label my ex with Borderline Personality Disorder.

In hindsight, and after speaking with many men who have gone through the same, I understand now that in many or most cases, there’s just too many other factors in play to pass such a quick unqualified judgment on anyone like that.

I’m not speaking of any woman who acts like this all the time… of which I’ve never met one like that. I speak of exactly the scenario the article states, which is anyone “frustrated with your wife or ex-wife’s attitude”, or anyone in the immediate family who is.

May we consider this woman is more than likely desperately clinging to some shred of identity after going through a split up. She may have lost a great deal of her source of income and security. She may be under the influence of extended postpartum depression. She may be dealing with children who a father sets against her, or at least perceived to be. The split may have resulted from the man cheating on her, leaving her for another woman, alone with the children, facing a whole mess of questions and issues that she never thought she’d have to deal with. She may be trying to justify her validity amongst a new girlfriend, or the great new house that dad built, and all the money he doles out as an excuse for loving the children. She’s wondering what kind of child support she’s going to receive, and how the hell she’s going to raise happy healthy children alone. She’s wondering if anyone will ever find her attractive again, and how she’d fit a boyfriend into the mix with schedule and children who want their father back, while she branded as the bad guy.

The article is flame bait of the worst kind. It does nothing to set a bad situation on the right path to healing for all parties. It does nothing for the children in the situation.

Before you comment with long drawn out examples of the crazy bitch in your life, just know that I’ve dealt with the craziest of them all and absolutely nothing you can say that would top the pain and heartache of my scenario. In hindsight, I understand that everyone gets crazy and unreasonable in these situations. More fuel for the fire of name calling and animosity may make us feel a little better in the short term. But it does nothing to encourage mental health and healing.

The article is also an advertisement for Shrink4Men Services. They’ll tell you exactly what you want to hear. They’ve got another name for any man who falls so easily for this obvious one sided ploy. They only say it in the back room when no one can hear them. That name they give men is Short Sighted Dumb AssSSDA. They’ve probably got a list developed for all the ways to recognize him and how to get his money. They won’t show it to you, but I assure you that keeping the anger and fight going between the man and woman is at the top of the list because our pain increases their bottom line.

JLeslie's avatar

@judi Interesting.

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

@Photosopher actually, the one that I hear most carelessly tossed around about fathers that are no longer with the mother of their children is deadbeat. I see what you’re saying, though. I’m not sure that being blunt makes it any less true, but you’re absolutely right that it isn’t helpful.

tranquilsea's avatar

Mt MIL has shades of this. She thinks that just because she thinks it that, therefore, makes it true…for everyone. She tries and tries to control her adult children’s lives. All of her sons lie to her because they have to. She is the most toxic person I’ve ever known.

She had convinced my husband to not talk to his father after their acrimonious divorce. It took a few months of me being with him to get back talking to his father. That kind of behaviour is unacceptable.

She’s continually pulled tactics that put my husband in the position of choosing between me and her. She has tried the same things with my kids.

She says that she wants her kids to be happy but her actions speak louder that her words. Her actions shriek that she wants all her boys with their attention on her…all the time.

tranquilsea's avatar

People like these reek havoc in your life. As the article states the only way to handle them is with iron clad boundaries. We moved 1000 km away. That was a comfortable boundary.

Judi's avatar

My nephew moved to Dubai. I often wonder if the stress caused my great nephews leukemia.

athenasgriffin's avatar

I think the article makes it easy to label many women GU’s just because they have one of the traits listed. It states that some mothers believe that they are the most important figure in their child’s life. The fact of the matter is, that for many (if not most) women with young children, they are the most important person in their children’s lives. I think it is only natural that a woman would fight to get her child the best life that is possible. (Which takes money.) I know that many men would love this article if they hated their ex-wife. It is vicious pseudo-psychological hate-mongering.

tinyfaery's avatar

Great more woman bashing by other women. Im dismayed.

Judi's avatar

No. Just narcissist bashing.

SuperMouse's avatar

I can pretty much guarantee that if someone sent that article to my ex-husband he would say it describes me to a tee. He would of course be wrong, the whole thing creeped me right out. My children would agree with me on this – or else.~

Judi's avatar

@SuperMouse; I can’t see you using your kids to punish an ex.

SuperMouse's avatar

@Judi thanks! I do my best to keep the boys blissfully unaware of the strife between their father and me.

King_Pariah's avatar

Yeah, my Mom.

Judi's avatar

@SuperMouse ; and THAT is the difference between you and my nephews EX, who is the woman in the article to a tee.

ANef_is_Enuf's avatar

I have to agree with @Judi. @SuperMouse I can’t imagine you doing something like this to your kids, and your statement about trying to protect your boys from what goes on between you and your ex is a great example of that.
I think that anything could easily be misconstrued or used against someone that it doesn’t actually apply to… but I really do know women like what is described in the article. Not good moms who take pride in being good moms. Women who use their children like ammunition. Who are childish and put themselves before everyone else, including their kids, and then hide behind being a “mom.” It’s so clear to me the difference between the traits in the article that actually apply to good mothers, and should… and women like the one they are trying to describe who feel entitled to claim these things, and really do just the opposite.

Plucky's avatar

I don’t know any women like this. Granted there are a few that have one or two of the characteristics. I’m sure there are much worse out there too.

I agree with @Photosopher and @athenasgriffin. What a spiteful article. What’s even worse is that it’s from a so called professional in the psychology field. I wouldn’t trust a website/business called Shrink4Men. Dr. Tara J. Palmatier deserves the golden middle finger. I mean really, jeez.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

To a point, most women suffer from GU or GE (Golden Empress). Since they are the one nature (if you are faithless) or God (if you have a faith) chose to carry and birth the children, many women relish the ideal they can make a man a father when he don’t care to and deny him fatherhood if he wants. I find nothing in that article too shocking or un-plausible. I find it very probable, actually.

Plucky's avatar

@Hypocrisy_Central I am so not surprised by your response. It will certainly be interesting to see how others respond to what you stated.

JLeslie's avatar

@Hypocrisy_Central many women relish the ideal they can make a man a father when he don’t care to and deny him fatherhood if he wants. Oy. I don’t know any women who relish this. But maybe we live in two different worlds.

SuperMouse's avatar

@Hypocrisy_Central do you actually know any women? Do you say these things just to troll? Maybe you are a hapless victim who has again and again been suckered into fathering children against your will. Poor Hypocrisy! Dude if that is the case the cure is simple keep it in your pants!

I have not met a single woman, not a single one who “relish(es) the ideal they can make a man a father when he don’t care to and deny him fatherhood if he wants.” Not a single one! I think that women as the one described in the article do exist (my ex-mother-in-law comes to mind) but they are the exception not the rule.

As a side note I think it is supremely ironic that the person who is complaining about men being forced into being dads wants women to be forced into handing over control of their own bodies and their pregnancies.

Photosopher's avatar

You’re thinking of the planet Venus @Hypocrisy_Central. Come back to Earth.

Photosopher's avatar

The company name Shrink4men sounds like they’re taking the balls away from men, even though they claim to give men bigger balls. You can tell a lot from a name. The irony..

JLeslie's avatar

Maybe where @Hypocrisy_Central lives there are a lot of women like that?

athenasgriffin's avatar

@Hypocrisy_Central I think there are more women forced into unhappy situations by pregnancy than there are women who use pregnancy as a trap. You must know some very messed up women, because I don’t know one woman of any quality who would “relish” making an unwilling man a father or denying a willing one a relationship with his child. Most women in either situation (an unwilling father or the denial of access to a willing one) feel that they have been boxed into a corner. The first situation because of an accidental pregnancy and the second because of a man not suited to parenthood.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

@SuperMouse do you actually know any women? Do you say these things just to troll? Not closely thank you, in passing I have met more than I would care to.

@Photosopher Come back to Earth. Been here for half a century, thank you. However, in general, there seem to be many out on cloud 9 I would invite back.

@athenasgriffin I think there are more women forced into unhappy situations by pregnancy than there are women who use pregnancy as a trap. I didn’t say trap, I said if they find themselves in that condition, how they choose to handle it has nothing to do with the desire of the father, he is basically irrelevant. Unless you count unwilling dad’s bankroll, when the talk comes to money then they want him involved.

tranquilsea's avatar

@Hypocrisy_Central half a century? I completely had you, in my mind’s eye, at 25 max.

JLeslie's avatar

I too thought of @Hypocrisy_Central as younger. I think he mentioned his age a few months ago and I was surprised also.

Blondesjon's avatar

i’m going to need to see a birth certificate or some other form of valid id

intheheadlights's avatar

The “Golden Uterus Complex” describes the ongoing actions, behavior and intentions of my current husband’s ex wife. She cheated on him before 2005, which is why they became separated, (after 22 years of marriage), but then insisted that he lie to their sons and not say a word about it. He eventually moved out on his own, but was concerned about what she would do, so he stayed best friends with her and her new boyfriend, (who happened to be his best friend.) He moved out eventually and started a new life, three minutes from her, and did most things with her and her b/f and the sons. A year and a half later, I met him, and he said he was all but divorced. Well, the minute he found a g/f (I was not the first), she turned the tables, saying the reason she wanted a divorce was that “what kind of woman would date a married man?” She lied to the community and to everyone about her affiliations, treated me like poison, and threw him out of his connected family with her (even though none of them stood up for him). Then, the sons were alienated from us, and have been, ever since 2006. They are now 26 and 24; they cannot make up their own minds (one of them blew off 5 years of college and is now living at home); the other one is trying to be independent but she insists both sons are “totally disabled;” they are punished if they even mention our names. When they visit, once a year, we are very close and have a lot of fun. But their lives are stuck because of her running the entire ship of who is family and who is not; unfortunately, there is nothing we can do but encourage them to work toward independence. She really worked hard at ruining our relationship, and to control everything while we lived nearby to the kids, but now we live an hour away. Personally, I feel it is a very accurate description of our situation; I can’t speak, however to that of other people. How do I know I’m not the problem? Because in my previous marriage, my ex’s ex and I got along well; everyone worked together on behalf of the kids.

Dutchess_III's avatar

It just sounds like a disgruntled rant to me. Totally one sided.

I sympathized with a small part of it, though. You wind up with weekend Dads who aren’t otherwise active in their children’s lives. In that case, I do think the mothers do have more say over the kids.

intheheadlights's avatar

Dutchess, those who have experienced that (GU) type or BPD or narcissistic situation with a bitter ex wife are not “ranting.” Cut off completely from doing what is natural, namely, try to build a blended family, in the best interest of the children (adult or not), the husband’s challenges to try to work toward blending are futile, and the longer he and the second wife try to be kind and open, the worse it gets (he’s often stuck in a no win situation because he’s lived with that personality for years, and is always trying to figure out ways not to set her off)- for the children. No matter what well-meaning, kind folks do to try to invest in the possibility for normalcy or mutuality, on occasion, there comes along someone that controls everything, insisting that “she and her ex will be married for life” (a decade after he has moved on), destroying all boundaries and insisting on a double standard that her ex and her boyfriend follow her every command, while also rejecting the mere idea of her ex moving on for himself, and then punishing him and his sons for not doing exactly what she wants, and eliminating the people that do not fit into her picture frame according to her demands completely from her life.
There are actual situations in which this happens! (Differentiation is key, along with a curious, open mind, as not all situations are equal).

Sometimes, as in our case, we’ve had to step back and wait until the adult children decide to initiate conversations and relationships with us, (which one of them who is now living partially on his own has), while also knowing that both are having to endure the ex’s maligning, marginalizing and fictionalizing of us to them and her community and family, creating a malignant atmosphere in which their devotions must feel conflicted, if not split. That is why staying OUT of the situation ends up being the only option.

The losses that the husband and his children endure can be immense. If an ex controls every moment of the adult children’s time, runs a matriarchy, insisting that every spare moment be left for doing chores and activities with only her and her family, the children’s capacity to grow up and move forward with both parents in their lives is thwarted, as their voices are rendered mute.

The deleterious patterns that people (GU- BPD, Narcissistic or whatever, a Personality Glitch?), display during divorce and for decades beyond, is about power and control OVER; it is based on a warped world view that is very limited, not love.
For example, the eldest son, 26, approached us with a potentially serious health issue; he was afraid to discuss it with his mother, and when he did what felt natural to him and mentioned that we were in on the loop, she shamed him (he also has a bit of Aspergers). Now he has to make the choice either to lie to her and ask us how we can help him find a path that doesn’t set her off, (but helps him achieve his goals), or to tell the truth and be battered emotionally. We are spending hours a day researching and writing and letting him call us, providing possible maps of choices he might take on his own, (we’ve discovered the hard way that if we try to help, it enrages her and she berates/batters them emotionally), but telling him that if he feels uncomfortable with her response, he can choose NOT to mention that we are involved at all. He says, “Well that’s not fair, because you are helping.” But then his pure heart needs to be able to be understand what is not natural; if he is punished by telling the truth to his mother, that maybe just asking us for advice and being independent and choosing the path that works for him might include not mentioning us at all might make life easier for him. Differentiation and open minded questioning are far more helpful than baseless judgment over one post. One can hardly define something a “disgruntled rant” until one is curious as to the whole situation. That’s one huge problem with online “discussions.” People become things, not flesh, bone, heart and soul. I do hope this addresses some of the missing pieces of the puzzle.

Dutchess_III's avatar

In my experience, the fathers just take off.

intheheadlights's avatar

That is generally true with fathers that don’t use the children to control the ex partner. It is a whole different story with people whose exes don’t follow the Golden Rule, and never intend to.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Well, he tried to use the kids to control me, before he took off.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

It is a whole different story with people whose exes don’t follow the Golden Rule, and never intend to.
The Golden Rule as deciphered by which nation?

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