Why are you scared to dream of God?

This question is chock full of false premises. Nothing happened to me that made me an atheist. Nor am I not living a happy life, miserable or alone. I am an atheist because I see no evidence of a god. Period, the end.

You’re mistaken in that you believe atheists are resentful of god(s). You can’t resent something that you believe does not exist. @augustlan took the words right out of my mouth. I am an atheist because I see no evidence of a god. The end. I don’t hate god, I don’t resent god, I’m not mad at god… I just don’t believe that it’s real.
The stereotyping and assumptions in this question are extremely disappointing. :\

I’m not scared & if I did ever dream it would be Charlton Heston in a frock, what’s there to be scared of? Actually, that would be a little disturbing.

I also love how you assume to know just how we came to our conclusions, and just how miserable, lonely, and unhappy our lives are.

@ANef_is_Enuf You seem really offended, I’m sorry. I edited the details for you.

@augustlan Do you have evidence that suggest there is no God, period.

You can’t prove a negative, @dreamwolf. The burden of proof rests on your side.

Note that I am not saying “There is no God.” Evidence could certainly turn up someday that would convince me that there is. I just haven’t seen any so far, so I don’t believe in one.

And now that you’ve radically changed the details, the first several answers make no sense. Your assumptions were, indeed, offensive.

Your self-editing makes me assume that you actually recognize how obnoxious some of your posts have been so far.

The burden of proof is on the one making the extraordinary claims. If I told you there was a teacup orbiting the sun, it wouldn’t be up to you to prove to me that it isn’t. It would be up to me to prove that it is.

@augustlan I understand so how would you like the evidence to appear in your (if it were to ever) like Visually, Smell wise, Touch wise, Hearing wise, Taste wise.

@ANef_is_Enuf Doesn’t matter how obnoxious you think my questions are. They are thought provoking, otherwise you wouldn’t be answering.

It’s hard to say, but a god could present himself to me in some way. Appear to me and others simultaneously or something. Gods are supposed to be able to create miraculous and all, so one should certainly be able to pull that off. If a god really cared about whether or not all of us believe in it in the first place.

Also, I wouldn’t call it thought-provoking. I would call it rage-inducing. It was very close to flame-bait.

This is not thought provoking. Your original question was loaded with ignorant, judgmental, stereotypical assumptions. Your (mistaken) assumptions are not new or thought provoking. But they are insulting, and so I feel it is in your (and my own) best interest to educate you about what atheism really is.
Though, you’ve changed the question so dramatically from the original that I don’t even know what to say to you, at this point.

@augustlan Are you an atheist?

@ANef_is_Enuf are you an atheist?

Just a note, the original question is still un-edited, the details have been altered, but the question is still the same, so premise was never offensive.

I’m not afraid. I just want some proof, just as you would if I asked you to believe in a supernatural controlling power of my own.

As for what evidence I’d like… Anything concrete. None of this wishy washy “look at the trees, so pretty! God musta did it!” rubbish. No God of the gaps arguments. Just some proof that god exists. Maybe he could pop down here for a while and let us film him doing some miracles? He had no problem showing up and doing things for/to people – up until we invented cameras and the like. If he seriously wants me to believe, he can show up. Otherwise he has no one to blame but himself for giving me an inquisitive brain and then expecting me to be a blind follower.

I am an atheist. I am not afraid.

Yes, I am an atheist.
I’m not afraid to “dream” of god. If you’re asking why I’m afraid to consider god a reality, I’m not. I spent the better part of my life taking it into consideration. My conclusion is that there is no reason for me to believe that it is probable, which has been my suspicion since I was about 11 years old.

@augustlan I’m only asking because wouldn’t logically speaking, to know there is no God, wouldn’t one have to know all? Since we don’t know all the possibility of God existing must be so? @ANef_is_Enuf Interesting.

@dreamwolf I actually have no idea what you mean by your last statement. Could you clarify?

And you’re wrong about the original premise not being offensive. It isn’t quite the charming caliber of the original details, but still pretty bold. The assumption that atheists are afraid to face the possibility that god exists is rude. Many of us, if not most, have spent a very long time coming to this conclusion. I am not afraid to consider god is a reality, I just have no reason to believe it. So I don’t. That doesn’t make me afraid, it means that I have come to a different conclusion than you.

Never mind, misread. I get it now.

Sure, the possibility of a god exists. So does the possibility of a unicorn, or a tea pot in the sky.

@augustlan You are escaping the subject which is “atheism.” Not fantasy creatures.

@augustlan so you are not atheist since you acknowledge God might exist.

Ok, then let’s rephrase: Sure, the possibility of the Christian god exists. So does the possibility of the Greek god, Zeus. Better?

And yes, I am an atheist. I do not believe in any god. I simply acknowledge that I could be wrong.

@augustlan Perhaps agnostic would be a better term? Because surely one cannot be 100% a God does not exist, and if he or she exist they would too have to know all. The point is atheism is specifically aimed at not believing in God, not fantasy creatures haha.

@dreamwolf what exactly is your question?
All I’m getting from you is a bunch of atheist bashing. You assume we’re afraid, lonely, miserable, hateful, resentful, unhappy… and also, apparently that we don’t really exist. Do you actually have a question, or do you just feel like venting some kind of dislike for those of us who believe differently from you?

@dreamwolf Actually, atheism is merely lack of belief in god. You can be “not sure” and still be an atheist. Agnosticism is the belief that nothing can be known about the nature/existence of God, nor of anything outside the physical realm. People get that confused a lot.

I thought this to be interesting, I respect all beliefs. Sorry for any offense. I didn’t purposefully try to get under anyones skin. http://carm.org/atheist-says-he-knows-there-no-god @ANef_is_Enuf Stop taking it so personal, your claims are incorrect. There’s nothing wrong with incorrect assumptions because even within those assumptions some of those might be true for some atheists, christians, jews, etc. So don’t take it personal.

@dreamwolf No, atheism is a lack of belief in a god, not specifically your god. You are an atheist, too, actually. You just believe in one more god than I do.

Also, I quite agree with @ANef_is_Enuf. You seem to have some kind of an agenda with this question.

I once dreamt that god was a talking orca. She was a very informative whale. It was a good dream. I understand your question but this is my answer.

Haha everyones definition of atheism is all over the place, since we cannot agree logically what it means I think its trash now. @augustlan Actually there is no agenda. I’m not going anywhere with it. I thought Atheist meant “The belief of no God.” Not “lack” of, because that means “some” still.

/Double face palm.
@dreamwolf, atheists are not afraid in the least of any god, becuase they do not believe that those gods exist. This would be like being afraid of a yeti that lives in your closet, comes out at night, and steals all your silverware. It does not exist, so you are literally incapable of fearing it.

No one here has made any “assumptions” as of yet. They’ve defined atheism several times, and you don’t seem to comprehend that without any proof, any claim about anything is meaningless.

I didn’t get that memo… I thought I never dreamed about God, because nobody really knows what to dream. Hmmm, Who’d a thunk it was REALLY because I was scared?

Strange… But that being said, From my perspective, I believe I dream about God no matter what I dream of. If He shows up as a spider… It’s His fault I’m afraid, that seriously canno’t be blamed on me!

*Smiles.

@Prosb Can you define atheism? Here’s mines, “disbelief in the existence of God or gods.
” from the Apple dictionary.

@dreamwolf can you please tell me which part of my previous response is “incorrect?”

@ANef_is_Enuf All I’m getting from you is a bunch of atheist bashing ]... do you just feel like venting some kind of dislike for those of us who believe differently from you?

@dreamwolf Atheism is the lack of belief in a deity.
As @augustlan already pointed out, you are an athiest as well, because you are concrete in the belief that your god is the correct one over all the others.

“All I’m getting from you is a bunch of atheist bashing… do you just feel like venting some kind of dislike for those of us who believe differently from you?”

None of this is incorrect. All @ANef_is_Enuf is hearing is your dramatic dislike for atheists, and then asked a question.

@dreamwolf “lack” of belief in a god does not mean “some” belief it means “no” belief.

@Prosb I never said I “disliked” atheists. Don’t put words in my mouth. I’m actually not an atheist. Logically it’s not correct since for me, I do believe in a God. Even though I believe my God is what I believe in, I never said my God was the “correct” one over all others. Again you are putting words in my mouth.

@dreamwolf to be an atheist, one does not have to actively disbelieve in god. Atheism is just not believing. This can mean that one actively believes that there is no god, or that one just happens to hold no belief in any gods. There are different kinds of atheism. Agnosticism is a whole different ballpark.

So it’s perfectly feasible for atheists to believe that they might be wrong, or to believe that it’s possible for a god to exist.

@Soupy Interesting indeed. The atheists I have met in my life time have claimed there absolutely is no God, and that the possibility of one absolutely does not exist. According to your logic are you saying, “an atheist as an entity doesn’t believe in God, period. But they can acknowledge possibility might be against them?” I’m having a hard time understanding the logic behind that one.

@ANef_is_Enuf I see the “assumption” within the question. The scared part yes is offensive. I actually just pulled that quote from a Bright Eyes song, “we are nowhere and its now” in that particular song I guess he’s talking about an atheist who he is believed to be afraid of the idea of God.

I’d like to see if you would feel the same, @dreamwolf if I came out asking a question.. saying that believers must be delusional, afraid to face reality, and lead a sad existence… and that would be okay by your standards, because it might be true for some people? Absolutely not. I call bullshit.

@Soupy explained it clear as day. There is a difference between possibility and probability. It is possible that there is a teacup orbiting the sun, but it is not probable. Therefor, I do not believe there is a teacup orbiting the sun. Could it be? It could… but I don’t believe that there is.

@ANef_is_Enuf Okay those details were erased along time ago again sorry.

@dreamwolf You disregarding almost everything said not in your favor, making you look like you do indeed dislike atheists, for whatever reason.

Are you saying that your god is not the correct one? Saying you believe in (insert god here) generally means that you believe they exist and the others don’t, unless you have more than one god and/or religion.

I haven’t put any words in your mouth, and this flame-bait of a question makes your views quite clear.

You erased them, but then you defended them. I’m not playing that game.

@dreamwolf Sorry if I wasn’t clear. An atheist is a person who does not believe in god. This does not necessitate an active disbelief in god. Example; technically a baby is an atheist, as it has no belief in any god or gods. However, a baby clearly does not actively disbelieve in a god. The only requirement for atheism is no belief in any gods. An atheist is free to believe that there is no chance that a god exists, or that there is a chance that a god exists, so long as he or she currently holds no belief in god.

It’s like… unicorns. You probably don’t believe in them, so we can call you a “unicorn atheist”. You hold no belief in unicorns. However, you may acknowledge that it is possible (however unlikely) that a unicorn exists, somewhere. You’re still a unicorn atheist, you still don’t believe, and that isn’t compromised by your admission that you might be wrong, or your willingness to alter your disbelief if someone provides some firm evidence proving the existence of the unicorn.

@Prosb I’m saying my God can co-exist with other Gods if others believe differently. How could I not see that? I’ve never tried to disprove an atheist. I merely wanted to know why, a God does not exist, and isn’t that what atheist believe?

@Soupy I get what you mean. But Atheism concerns God, and to not/believe in Unicorns (bless their horns) are two totally different subjects.

@dreamwolf I know unicorns have nothing to do with it, I just used them for my analogy. Replace unicorns with gods, if it helps.

@dreamwolf Are you saying that multiple gods may exist? If you are saying you are okay with others having their beliefs in their own gods that’s fine. What I’m saying is, do you believe your god(s) is the “true” god? If you believe in your god alone, that would mean you believe your god is the “correct” god, because that is the god you chose to follow.

(Unless you follow gods at random, and not for any particular reason.)

@Prosb Multiple Gods may exist. See you are under the premise that I’m saying what I believe is the “true” belief when my question all along was how can someone disprove the existence of God. Two totally different subjects. The God I follow has nothing to do with whether or not it is the “truer” “correct” God for others. It’s okay though, you probably learned that from some Christian bible or something.

@augustlan Can we erase this question? It was more suitable for a chat room since the details drastically changed, causing a lot of off topic discussions to happen.

@dreamwolf I really don’t think that would be fair to all of the people who’ve taken the time to answer it.

@augustlan Ok, that sounds fine, but can people actually answer it then? “Why are you scared to dream of God?” _Bright Eyes_We are nowhere and its now.

What kind of evidence would you like to see? Because there is no evidence, does it mean God does not exist?

I did answer the newly framed question, as have several others.

Also, in that post, I meant “miracles” not “miraculous”. Dang typos.

I am not scared.
I would require that god manifest physically and perform miracles and displays of their omniscience.
Because there is no evidence, I do not believe that gods exist. I acknowledge that it is possible, but my opinion is that it is so highly improbable that there is a god, that my acknowledgement of the possibility is quite weak. I acknowledge the possibility, but I do not entertain it. My conclusion is that there is no god.

I’ll bite, again.

The kinds of evidence I’d like to see would be a holy book with a 100% accuracy rate when it comes to prophecies, also the prophecies contained therein would have to be incredibly specific and unable to be made by chance. I’d need to see god/s with my own eyes, preferably with several other witnesses, and a camera to ensure that hallucination/trickery was not behind it. When the god appeared it would be great if it could do something to prove it’s omniscience, omnipresence and whatnot. It would be convincing if an extra-terrestrial race were discovered who also believed in this god. Archeological evidence of ancient miracles, or real miracles in the present. Also, if adherents to the religion of this god had prayers answered at a significantly higher rate than members of the general population…

Any or all of this stuff might help convince me that a god existed. I’d need something different if I were to be convinced to worship a god.

@dreamwolf I personally love how you say others are putting words in your mouth, when stating things such as: “See you are under the premise . . .”
“Stop taking it so personal, your claims are incorrect.”
“You are escaping the subject which is “atheism.” Not fantasy creatures.”

And asking an opening question like: “Why are you scared to dream of God?”

I put in bold the parts where you were telling others what they are doing, and what they are thinking. For you to assume these things is putting the words in their mouths.

Just wanted to point that out before I dropped this question. Feel free to have the last word.

@Prosb Put simply, you were assuming I believed that my God was the true God, which I never said, and that I disliked atheist which I never said. You stated that right? Those weren’t actions, those were words you tried to feed me. “Why are you scared to dream of God?” I admit that question literally means “fear of dreaming of God” but I should’ve just put “why don’t you believe in God.” Statements involving logical arguments aren’t putting words in others mouths like these statements, “See you are under the premise . . .”
“Stop taking it so personal, your claims are incorrect.” (I didn’t assume to know what they believed here, its a statement based of a reaction)
“You are escaping the subject which is “atheism.” Not fantasy creatures.” (this is just a statement declaring what the answerer is doing about the subject being discussed. So these are not assumptions.

Anyways enough of me and what I think, I want to know what you think. @Prosb What kind of evidence would you like to see? Because there is no evidence, does it mean God does not exist?

If one believes in the God of LOVE of the Christian bible, there is no reason to fear and if they don’t believe then it must be just boogey man dreams.

I’m not scared to dream oh Him but i rarely do.

lol

God of love my ass, I come not bringing peace, I come bringing a sword. Matthew 10:34 I believe.

As for God, well, I’m a nihilistic atheist, and though I may be willing to believe that there may be higher beings, I don’t believe that there are gods, just perhaps sentient life developed into a form that we currently can’t understand nor comprehend, but not all powerful, not omniscient, not infallible, not perfect. Did it make us? Perhaps, but like any creator, it/they can be overthrown.

I haven’t even dreamed of god, that’s how much I don’t care about it.

I want to see empirical evidence, you know….that evidence required in almost every aspect of life.

Dreaming of a physical god is simply the subconsciouses way to attempt to attach a form to the formless.
My belief is that we ARE “God”...there is no “him/her”..there is only all life, and every life form is a manifestation of the ONE, universal, creative intelligence.

This is where the concept of no separation comes from, non-duality.
Being at “one” with all life, because all life is one, therefore, no separation, only individual forms and experiences of “God” experiencing itself.

This is laughable.

I can’t control my dreams.

God is a theory. Just like evolution. The theory of God spawns many hypotheses, just like the theory of evolution. Unlike the theory of evolution, the theory of God makes few testable hypotheses, thus one can not find any evidence to support the theory. Evidence must be measurable and reproducible by independent observation.

The evidence for God is not measurable nor reproducible. It consists primarily of personal experience and inference. Personal experiences, such as revelations from God, can not be experienced by anyone else. There is no way to measure them. There is no way to confirm they exist. You can’t reproduce them. All you can to is have faith that the person who experienced the experience is telling the truth and interpreting their experience accurately.

Inference is not evidence either. Many people say that the universe is perfect for human life and that there is very little that could be different in our universe and still have it capable of supporting life. They treat this as evidence of the design of an intelligent deity. It could be evidence of that, but there’s no way to test it. It might equally be random.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. God could exist. So could the tooth fairy. So could any other number of magical entities we could hypothesize.

As to dreaming—I rarely remember my dreams. I doubt if I would ever dream about God, but you never know. I wouldn’t place much significance in that even if I did. I see a lot of things that other people don’t see. I have hallucinations of various sorts. For example I see purple auras everywhere. I could interpret them as auras of buildings and roads and cars, but I don’t. I assume it is an effect of my eyes or brain. I’m satisfied with not knowing.

Indeed, I often feel like I know things I can’t know. I can see things at a distance. I can describe, with fair accuracy, buildings I have never seen. I can tell if someone is bipolar without ever knowing them. Just by seeing how them move. I know other things about people by seeing how they more, or even just by hearing their stories. Do I have some kind of magic perception? Am I psychic?

I think there are simpler explanations and I think I need resort to magical explanations. But I’ll tell you, a lot of times it feels like these ideas pop into my head out of nowhere. I could easily think that God was speaking to me. I could think God was guiding my trumpet when I am so in tune with my fellow bandmates, it feels like we are one organism.

But why should I use such an explanation? It really explains nothing. In fact it discourages further investigation if you just say it is God as if that is an explanation. I prefer to look into it more deeply. I have my theories. I don’t know if there will ever be evidence supporting my theories before I die. We’ll see.

I never dreamed about god but I once dreamed that I was god and I was pissed about the Japanese guys chasing my whales around with harpoons. Unfortunately, I woke up before I got to do anything about that.

“Because there is no evidence, does it mean God does not exist?”

No. Because there is no evidence, there is no reason to believe in God.

God is beyond evidence. There is nothing God can do to prove his existence. There is the world; if that doesn’t convince us what would? Anything else will seem like a trick.

@flutherother how would the world convince us? If you’re saying it’s the only one that can support life that’s wrong, we’ve found I think two other goldilock planets.

@dreamwolf asked: “Because there is no evidence, does it mean God does not exist?”

Yes. Yes, it means that exactly.

For example, can I levitate 300 feet into the air and shoot lasers from my eyes?
As far as you’re concerned, absolutely not. Why? Because there’s no evidence available that I can do that. Until you receive convincing evidence of my ability to levitate and shoot eye lasers.. you’re just going to have to not believe that I can do it. You don’t have a choice in the matter.

And neither do I have have a choice in the matter of whether or not I believe god exists. I would need convincing evidence. I don’t have any, so my conclusion is necessitated.

@King_Pariah By the world I mean the universe we experience. It doesn’t convince us, we need faith to believe in God. What I meant was that nothing can be added to what is to make the idea of God convincing. It is impossible for God to convince us that he exists. There is nothing more he can do than what he has already done. Those who believe in God will always have to meet him half way.

@flutherother, I’ve found that the claims people make of Faith as being something you have to do on your own first to believe in something are unfounded. In examining my own behavior and others, it seems entirely more true-to-reality that faith and confidence are interchangeable terms where you simply can’t have confidence in something that doesn’t seem likely. Instead, evidence of something’s likeliness tends to grow your confidence/faith in that something.

As far as I know it, I could have dreamt of it and not even realised it. Besides, it could look like anybody or anything.

@ninjacolin I am not saying that believing in God is right I am saying that God can never conclusively convince us he exists. On the other hand the world exists and that is an extremely unlikely phenomenon very difficult to believe in or to understand. It is far more likely that God should exist than that the world should exist. Is this not why creation myths begin with God or gods and then go on to describe how they created the world?

Creation myths began because man couldn’t come up with a rational reason why Earth and the universe existed. Thus to sound intelligent at the time they said it was God or Gods, which really just added up to I don’t know and I’m not going to make the effort to find out.

@flutherother, What makes you think he couldn’t conclusively convince us? Has your mother or father or cousin or sibling ever been able to “conclusively” convince you that they are your kin?

“conclusive proof” is a hard thing to ask for. “Sufficient” evidence is all that I was suggesting.

As humans we’re not capable of 100% certainty and we shouldn’t really expect to have it from God either. We’re only capable of “pretty certain”-ty.

Why would you assume that I’m scared? I can’t be scared of something I don’t believe in.

I also look for no proof, because if God is real, He probably won’t show it to me, anyway. And anyways, again, I don’t believe in God, so why would I be looking for proof on something I don’t believe to be real?

Actually, I do dream of gods though. It would be cool if they existed. Like Viking and Greek gods, and I could totally be Xena. Never gonna happen, but I can dream…^^ I seriously had like an hour and half long fantasy at work today, about being a Viking warlord that got in a fight with Ares.

Erm. Anyways. I don’t even get what you mean by ’‘dream of God’’. But I don’t like the direct tone in which the question is asked, suggesting that you’ve answered everything anyone has to say before they even posted.

@dreamwolf Just FYI, in this culture, when you write God, with the capital G and everything, it does mean the Christian god. The Jewish way of referencing that same deity is normally to write G-d or YHWH, and the Muslim version is Allah. Most other religions have a specific name for their deities – Thor, Odin, Vishnu, Zeus, etc. God (or god) is also male-only, it does not include female deities. If you’re trying to encompass more than just the Christian God, you may want to use “deity/s” instead, otherwise people will infer that you are only talking about the Christian God.

If God found a way to demonstrably violate the law of non-contradicition without the universe imploding on itself, I would be convinced. I’m betting there are laws even God can’t break.

@ninjacolin There is nothing God could do to demonstrate his existence that a very technologically advanced race could not imitate. The existence of the world is the most convincing proof we can ever have of God’s existence.

Is this inspired by We are Nowhere and it’s Now by Bright Eyes? c:
edit: whoops, just saw that you mentioned it.

Anyway, the ‘can you prove he doesn’t exist?’ argument reminds me of a similar hypothetical situation my psychology teacher brought up.
If someone claims they can fly, you ask them to prove it; they don’t ask you to prove they can’t.
Sure, they may very well be able to fly, but as I’ve never seen a human being with the ability to do so in all of my humble experience, if I’m expected to believe something improbable, the claimant should be providing the evidence. You can’t prove one way or another that something does not exist, but you can prove that something does exist.

Personally – I don’t require any proof. Who am I to demand that other people submit the evidence of their personal religion to me?

I once dreampt of George Burns.. Does that count..?

@flutherother, that’s an interesting angle you’re taking there.

“It is far more likely that God should exist than that the world should exist.”

The most likely thing that could have happened is what we can observe as having happened. We can observe that the world did indeed come into existence. God, on the other hand, hasn’t necessarily ever come into existence. God is just a hypothetical idea that doesn’t have any observable properties to explore or verify as having “realness” in any sense.

@ninjacolin Just because something happens doesn’t mean it was likely. The universe has happened, but it seems far more likely that it would never have happened and that there would be nothingness. From a human perspective the world is baffling; there is so much of it and it is so unnecessarily elaborate and detailed. It is inexplicable and impossible.

It is comparatively easy on the other hand to imagine the God who might have created it and who drives it all. Maybe God is a hypothetical idea, but the universe is much more incomprehensible; a hypothetical idea which has become real!

The only thing more elaborate, detailed, inexplicable and impossible than the world as we know it would be a creature (or something more complicated than that) who could create it all on a whim.

Given time, something simple can create something more complex than itself. We can imagine God as an unlikely creature that it is easy to dismiss but that doesn’t get us very far. We don’t even know that he exists but neither do we know that he doesn’t exist. It is difficult to believe that anything can ever have created itself out of nothingness whether that is the universe, God or each one of us.

@flutherother said: “It is difficult to believe that anything can ever have created itself out of nothingness”

Actually, it’s impossible for the human mind to believe anything without having sufficient evidence for it. We have evidence that the universe exists but we have no evidence to suggest what created it.

The trick is to be honest and stop there: We don’t know anything more than that that universe exists.

Going beyond that takes you into hearsay or theoretical territory, which is fine as long as you don’t lie and say that it’s a globally observable fact.

@ninjacolin I would agree with what you have said above, but we will never stop wondering how the universe began and why it exists even if these questions don’t have any meaning. All we know is that we don’t know. Theories and speculations are interesting and may satisfy up to a point but they are not the truth.

@gr8teful Yes, someone put the fear in you.