The Duggar family of Arkansas has 19 kids. How do you feel about that decision?

Just a tad excessive…..Just a tad…..

I feel that it’s none of my business, or anyone else’s but their own.

(Unless of course, they’re drawing taxpayer money such as unemployment or welfare. But even then, I don’t think I want the taxpayers to get a vote on how many children I’m allowed to have.)

They have their own reality tv show and a lot of rental property, that is, storage barn things. No welfare, all home schooled, all taught violin starting at age two.

Vagina ≠ clown car. I worry about that woman’s health.

As for welfare, it is true that they don’t use any traditional programs to support themselves. They do take huge advantage of the child tax credit, however, and pay no property taxes thanks to getting their basement classified as a church. And for all their talk of self-sufficiency due to good investments, they basically live off of donations.

You mean this Duggar Family?

@SavoirFaire they get donations? for what? Where did you hear this?

@Kayak8 Yes; they just don’t use birth control. They think it’s interfering in God’s plan.

@SavoirFaire And the altar of that church would be a king size four poster bed?

It is gross. Some day I hope it is socially unacceptable to have more than 2 kids per house hold because this is excessive. They must not have heard about the population situation we currently have. I guess as long as it doesn’t affect them directly, they must not care and are ignorant. That type of behavior needs to be dealt with intelligently but society is not ready for it. This is all my opinion. I think kids are cute, but I’m not going to overload the earth just because I can.

Just because you can do something, doesn’t mean you should.

They are within their rights to do that, but I think their reasoning for doing it is idiotic and I think it is a socially irresponsible thing to do for environmental reasons.

I also really like the statement “Vagina ≠ clown car”

I think if they are able to support their children financially and emotionally it is none of my business.

@JLeslie You know, that makes me wonder if it is possible for two people to support 19 children emotionally.

@cockswain I would guess it is possible. It probably depends on the type of life and lifestyle they have.

@cockswain I’ve wondered the same thing. I do know that each little one is assigned a “buddy” who helps him/her get dressed, hair fixed, picks them up when they fall down, helps them with homework, etc. But that is still a good question.

@JLeslie they have a fantastic lifestyle. A huge RV takes them all over the country to various functions, they get to speak on the Today show, and they all play in the snow together. All of this is televised. The older boys built their home with Mr Duggar with some help from a homebuilder and they’re debt free and sell books on Amazon.

@Aster I guess I meant it as a general statement about large families, not speicfically about the Duggar’s. Like I said, I am fine with them having as many children as God gives them. I did once see a show where families were pressured to have bunches of kids because of the church they went to, and some of the women after leaving the church spoke out against the pressure saying they were miserable and overwhelmed. That is when it would upset me. But, if the parents are happy and the children well adjusted I have nothing negative to say.

It’s not the decision I would make for myself, but if it’s working for them, why do I need to get a vote in their choice of birth control (or not) decisions ?

What amazes me is the judgemental attitudes of people who are ardent supporters of a woman’s right to have an abortion. The term consistently used is PRO-CHOICE.

And that’s all well and good (in their eyes) as long as that choice is termination.

But these same folks who claim to be all about choice are the first ones vocally judging anyone who’s choice is different from the one they support.

If a women freely chooses to have a large family (like the Duggars) isn’t she exercising HER OWN freedom of choice?

Why is her choice invalid simply because it’s not what the majority would choose for themselves ?

If you are someone who is truly pro choice and would vigorously oppose any efforts to turn back the clock on Roe v. Wade, then how about a bit more consistency in your stance ? How about a tad less hypocrisy toward Michelle Duggar ? Doesn’t she have a right to a choice as well ? Or is that only value if she chooses abortion or birth control.

This is not the Octomom here who payed for her IVF with divertd student grant money and various other involvements of the social service systems b

The Duggars aren’t a drain on taxpayers afaik and appear to actually be raising kids to be responsible contributing members of society.

Why is it deemed perfectly ok for careless party girls to continually be using abortion as a form of retroactive birth control multiple times without any apparent criticism while responsible parents who take the time and effort to raise their family to not be a drain on the taxpayers are regarded with criticism and judgement of THEIR choice ?

I don’t get it. I’m certainly not suggesting that abortion rights be legally restricted in any way. But how about dropping the careless party girls a clue that responsible birth control is a much better (and less expensive) option after her second or third abortion. A bit less drugging and drinking might help in that endeavor as well.

Why are the choices of irresponsibility apparently so sacrosanct and exempt from a critical eye but those who are making less popular (but purposefully responsible) choices are taken to task merely for exercising their own right to make their choice as well.

We either believe in choice for all or we don’t. Anything else is hypocrisy.

I truly feel better them than me. Also, if they are happy with their decision to have so many children, tnen I’m happy for them, especially since none of them seem to be suffering.

@Aster See here and here for some information about the donations they’ve received. Their house, for instance, was built by volunteers found by Discovery and furnished by corporate sponsors of their original television special. I’ll withhold judgment regarding how “fantastic” the children’s lifestyle is until I see how they turn out.

@Buttonstc While the rant and false dilemma are appreciated, no one seems to think she should have been legally prevented from having these children (which is what being pro-choice is about). The worries people have are about other issues.

It grosses me out to imagine what that woman’s body goes through. I know I don’t have the mental stability to breed like that but I also don’t think just because it’s possible that they should. In a way, it feels a bit insulting to see them- almost like watching an obese person eat a banquet table of food. I can’t really put my finger on it but I don’t like it.

@SavoirFaire You can already see a couple of examples of how they turned out. The oldest boy is married with two babies . The couple lives in a very modest home and support themselves with a used car lot. Recently, they were able to move into larger quarters (business quarters). The Duggar children have been taught to do significant volunteer work including in South America. They all dress very modestly and do not wear standard bathing suit apparel. I can see how the network would have wanted to help them out since they have a popular television show.
Their last (nineteenth) child was born with serious health problems. Maybe they needed some help with those expenses.
All the Duggar children pitch in with household duties and do not believe in any physical contact during courtship except hand holding. They do not “date” around.

@Neizvestnaya I certainly do not have the mental stability it would take to do what she does. She is extremely organized but the little ones are free to run and scream around with each other and their toys. She doesn’t raise her voice; she always speaks to them, esp during discipline, in a very quiet voice. She’s amazing.
I do worry about her health. She had her gall bladder removed last year but she is a very strong woman and recently went water “boarding?” What is it called? She also went skydiving.

Wakeboarding. Water boarding is a form of torture. Oh wait, “enhanced interrogation technique.”

@Aster: I have no issues at all with how the many children are raised. What I’m uncomfortable with is the number of kids they feel to have. It’s great they can all be supported and healthy but it’s just such a contrast to the times we live in where resources are a premium, or they should be.

Kind of tweaked something in me similar to when my fiancee told his three kids they are the kind of people who should have kids and for them to have his blessing. For some reason, I got really yucked out over that.

@Neizvestnaya I understand. It’s very natural to feel uncomfortable with anything that foreign to most of us.
@cockswain Wakeboarding; thank you.

@Aster I’m more worried about the long-term effects on the younger children. I’m not saying it’s definitely going to be a disaster—that’s why I’m withholding judgment—I’m just worried. This is especially true given that the particular homeschool curricula the Duggars use in their home are among the worst out there. As for the other “benefits” you cite, I don’t find them to be advantageous other than the volunteer work (which can be done without having 18 siblings).

I keep having the thought that I only wish so many troubled , fatherless families had it so good. Small families with drugs, violence, divorce and alcoholism involved in their lives don’t have the environment the Duggars enjoy. Old fashioned values appear to be working well for them. If one values higher education? That’s another story. All they receive is homeschooling and museums. I guess there are no perfect family situations.

Cockswain said it best: “They are within their rights to do that, but I think their reasoning for doing it is idiotic and I think it is a socially irresponsible thing to do for environmental reasons.”

The “idiotic” part has to do with believing in God and his “Divine Plan.” So, of course, on fluther I would not expect their decisions to be met with approval. That was a given. I believe in God but , like most believers, would never consider having nineteen kids based on that alone. Their wall plaque reads: “Children are a Gift from God.” They all feel very welcome to say the least.

@Aster You’re inferring more than I implied. Being a member of fluther isn’t what causes me to look with disdain upon foolish thinking either.

@cockswain sorry; I didn’t mean to imply fluther caused you to abhor foolish thinking. This is a subject that cannot be resolved.

@Aster Again, you don’t need 18 siblings to have a father, no problems with drugs/alcohol/violence, a penchant for volunteer work, and whatever else the Duggars might enjoy. I’ve known plenty of families like this that have only one, two, or three children. Nor is religion any part of my answer. I’ve known atheists and theists alike who live with both parents, do not abuse drugs, have no history of violence, and enjoy helping others. Finally, I do not judge people based on how they choose to dress or who they choose to date, thus why “modest dressing” and “not dating around” strike me as neither particularly advantageous nor particularly disadvantageous.

@Aster To clarify, I’m not saying that to be religious necessarily makes one a fool. But the way they have chosen to interpret the bible and apply it to their life seems idiotic to me.

Does anyone else feel that it is selfish to be using up resources to make new babies when so many other ones that are already alive are suffering and need a healthy home to live in? I’d adopt 20 kids if I could, but I wouldn’t add to the current population. Why not love the kids that are already here? Anybody else get that “selfish vibe”? I’m not questioning the fact that the kids exist. I’m questioning the process of reasoning that would lead someone to have that many kids. What part of you would say, “It’s okay for me too birth offspring for 20 years in the condition the world is in today when there are so many other kids out there that could use my help.”

@SavoirFaire Very good. The way I feel about the Duggars is they seem to have a pretty ideal way of living regardless of the supposed liability of nineteen children. i find them impressive. The network continues to renew their contracts so a lot of other people seem to be impressed too. it seems surreal to me that they aren’t sneaking around smoking, cursing and yelling back at their parents. Of course, we could say they are doing all these things but the show chooses to shield these behaviors from the viewers. I choose to believe they are not doing any of it and that makes me happy to watch the show.

@poopnest You will certainly have a lot of followers to your way of thinking.

@poopnest Agreed, and I’d like to add that an American consumes far more energy and resources than anyone else on the planet. Having 19 of them either smacks of ignorance of that impact or a lack of caring. Which I think is socially irresponsible.

Both of you have a very popular opinion of the entire scenario. I want to watch tv now. LOL But this is fun , too!

smacks of ignorance…that’s one of the things my mind has been trying to grab on this topic…yeah. I think so…or like you said, they don’t care about the outside world. Selfish, I think.

ok; they are uncaring and selfish. Back tomorrow sometime? Great participation.
Nite.

I kind of want to watch the show now.

WHAT? YOU’VE NEVER WATCHED IT? Oh, cool. Let me know what you think. lol

I have not. I don’t have t.v. So, it’s a dilemma!

The Duggars think it’s selfish to stop sperm from doing what “God” wants them to do. Go figure.

Wow, that’s quite the concept. Reminds me of the “Every Sperm is Sacred” song from a Monty Python movie. “If a sperm is wasted, God gets quite irate.”

They are partly able to handle expenses by only buying used clothing. They show them buying huge heaps of clothes at thrift stores. And oh, the fun of watching them with about ten grocery carts all marching in a line.

@cockswain LOLLLOOO!!!!!!

Look , poop and cock. I have to shower now! This is crazy!

I can see why they put this family on t.v. They raise a lot of eyebrows, concerns, entertain and that all means ratings:D

Well said, poop

Look , poop and cock.

Great quote.

In my mind, they pose a dilemma: “We have all these wonderful children and we are good people, but we don’t really pay attention to the world outside.” It’s kind of hard to ignore when it’s in your face. It’s hard to wrap words around too!

Yes; I am the clever one, right? lol

Haha!

poop, these kids have seen more of the world in their brief lives than I have and I’m a grandma.

Perhaps the parents are exceptional in their parenting. We will have to see how the kids pan out. Hard to say. It’s an extreme situation.

None of my business.

I also have a hard time caring.

I’ve seen many interviews with this family and it looks like the children are happy, well adjusted and loved. I’ve known several only children who grew up in terrible households. Who am I to judge?

I don’t have a problem with it. If they can handle it, good for them. Besides, what if that 19th child grows up and discovers some way to help with our energy/resources consumption issues?

@Aster Do you know by any chance if the mom has ever had difficult pregnancies or deliveries that required significant medical intervention?

@poopnest I never judge people for wanting their own biological children. Of course, if you have seen some of my past comments on fluther you will see I have had some discussions previously over the matter regarding my own personal fertility situation so I am very biased. I do however think like my mother in the sense that I don’t think it is a child’d responsibility to raise their sibling. If the parents can’t care for another child as parents they should stop having kids. Their children should be able to choose when they want to have a baby to care for. But, many many families require the older siblings to help with the younger ones, so mine is just an opinion for my own family, maybe it is fine for others.

Yep, not my biz, however, I too have a hard time believing that any two people could really “provide” the proper emotional attention to that many children. Not my cup ‘o tea, that’s for sure. Mostly, all I can think of is it’s a miracle that woman still has a uterus that functions. lol

@JLeslie I am not sure but I think she has never had a problem.

@JLeslie Child number 19 was born via emergency C-section if that’s what you’re asking. More details in the link.

@SavoirFaire Yes. I just get a little annoyed when people make pregnancy and birth all God and nature, and the truth is without medical intervention women and babies die or have severe illness way more than people know. Of course still the majority of pregnancies do fine, but the number that have troubles are pretty significant.

So pregnancies and birth are not “all God and Nature” but….? Science? What word would you use?

@Aster What I mean is there seems to be a big push in the US to make pregnancy and birth seem like a walk in the park, it bothers me. I have absolutely no problem with someone having as many children as God gives them, I don’t question that belief, if they are happy with that choice. But, pregnancy and birth is not all God and Nature if obstetricians had to cut the baby out after 20 hours of labor and the child became distressed and could not be naturally birthed. Or, if the woman became diabetic during pregnancy and needed insulin to keep herself and the baby healthy. Or, a doctor friend of mine, his wife also a doctor, began to hemorrhage during rounds at the hospital. If she had not been in the hospital at the time, she would have certainly died and the baby.

That made me smile. Pregnancy and birth a walk in the park! Hysterical. When did this “push” begin? But I do agree with you that things in Nature do not happen, oftentimes, as we would like such as birth defects and a bazillion other things. And that is, indeed, troubling.

@Aster I feel it from the pro-life group. I do not mean everyone who is pro-life/against abortion, but those who are visible in the political movement. They only speak of the splendors of new life, which I agree is miraculous. They gloss over the dangers in pregnancy and childbirth in my opinion, show photos of full term babies when talking about abortion, I just find them to be deceptive. I have no argument with those who believe life begins at conception, I do have an argument with those who think there is a fully developed baby inside a womb at two weeks. Many Christians are fine with conception in a petrie dish, and then freezing the embryos, but not ok with abortion. They will keep a life in suspended animation with no problem? And, pretty much it is a given many of the created embryos will not survive, creating life knowing it will fail, and it is simply unnatural for a woman to produce so many eggs in a cycle. The Catholic church is against this process. That is more logical to me, but Catholics tend to look at science. Anyway, I am not trying to pick on one religion, just saying I like honest information for women about pregnancy and birth.

The Duggars seem to talk about all their children being a blessing and wonderful, and I believe they really feel that, but she doesn’t seem to mention any scary moments in pregnancy or birth much? I have only seen her interviewed a few times. Other women are more forthcoming about their experience when things were difficult and possibly life threatening.

Seeing as they are paying their own way I don’t have any issue on it. I’m glad I’m not Mrs Duggar though and so is my vagina!

They actually had an entire show on a scary moment, no, they had many on their latest baby being in an incubator with Michelle and all the kids crying as they looked down at the premature baby who couldn’t breathe on it’s own. They had lots of shows on that experience and showed Michelle caring for the baby while the family went on trips. Then they had the show where one of the boys fell off the stage at a church and had a concussion. I don’t see how she “glosses over” anything but she is quite organized and has a system for each child to do his own household jobs. They have the largest pantry of food I’ve ever seen and about five washers and five dryers.
While I do not recall any scary moments in pregnancy (she did suffer with labor pains in one episode) the last baby almost died and Jim Bob called the house from the hospital crying while telling everyone the baby was in critical condition.

@Aster I didn’t mean to imply she specifically glosses over, I wrote that poorly, but that some of the “prolifers” do. I have only seen the Duggars on a few interviews, and maybe 10 minutes of their show. I never felt like she was trying to preach everyone should do as they do and have bunches of kids. She seems happy in her personal decision, and I always had the feeling she maintained it was a personal decision. I never find them to be judgmental of others. However, I do kind of disagree with babies being saved who are born very early. I am not commenting on the Duggars last child born, I don’t know the specific health situation, but I have a friend who is pro-life based on her religious beliefs, but she also is a charge nurse for a large hospital in the neonatal unit, and she is horrified at what parents will do to their premie newborns who have no chance or will have a life of severe disability. She said she would never do it to her own child, but many people fight for life no matter what, no matter how difficult or painful the life will be. It is not always the religious, she says she sees it most among low income, but low income are also more likely to have premies, many times they are religious and low income, sometimes people just have a hard time letting go. Understandable.

It is their decision, but I agree with @Coloma about the difficulty of spreading emotional attention. When does each child get to have one-on-one time with Mom or Dad? I especially feel for the older girls who have to act as surrogate parents to the younger children. While a certain level of adult responsibility is good for young people, I wonder when they get to be kids themselves.

I heard today that they’re expecting child #20 now.

@Mariah, Yep! Said something about (in jest) they didn’t want an odd number on chilluns

I saw a story about that today as well. She’s already 3.5 months along according to what I saw and is going to have a scheduled c-section this time (her first scheduled c-section).

Their children’s names all begin with the letter ‘J’
Joshua, 23;
Jana and John-David, 21;
Jill, 20;
Jessa, 19;
Jinger, 17;
Joseph, 16;
Josiah, 15;
Joy-Anna, 14;
Jedidiah and Jeremiah, 12;
Jason, 11,
James, 10,
Justin, 8,
Jackson, 7;
Johanna, 6;
Jennifer, 4;
Jordyn, 3;
Josie, 1
and one due next April