Do you value formal education?

Yes I value it.

Those people became filthy rich because they were already genius’, and already had ideas that would net them bazillions of dollars. Bill Gates didn’t finish college because he was smarter than his professors, and innovating an entire field (computer tech) that basically didn’t exist to that point.

So unless you have some once in a generation idea, education is incredibly valuable.

I value it for the search for and dissemination of knowledge and the exchange of ideas, not so much for the degree.

To my view there will always be faults in the system as there will always be people who are just there for the paycheck or the degree, they see it as a means to an end whereas I see it as a valuable end in and of itself.

I would say more is always better but it’s a decision that sits with the student and their priorities may dictate otherwise.

Off the top of my head I’d say no field should be abandoned unless it has proven bereft of value. But then “value” is a judgement call and I doubt the people studying what I might name valueless would agree.

I do value it. I think for most people, it is the best way to learn. The people you listed are all exceptions.

Most people with formal educations earn more than their counterparts without.

Yes, but only because it’s a piece of paper that we need to get certain jobs. Society told us we need it, so we have to get it. If you mean the actual education: I’ve learned a lot just by doing my own research and reading books, and I will continue to do so. Just last night I taught myself how to use photoshop and GIMP lol.

The internet is one of the best resources we have, in my opinion. It’s a digital library of Alexandria.

I think any field is good, though, just not for the market and that’s reality. This is where that “underwater basket weaving degree” saying comes from. If someone wants to formerly learn how to do something, I think they should. Our lives are dependent on the market, but we can still have hobbies.

I also like to include my hero William Safire on the list of college drop-outs who were super-successful and influential. Pulitzer prize winning, Presidential speech writer and NY Times columnist on etymology, no less.

But it depends on the person, and the education. It’s like a lot of things (in democracies); it might suck sometimes, but it’s (probably) the best choice given the alternative.

If I could skip the first 4 years of university life I would really value it. I love researching and exchanging ideas. I do it in my private life all the time and it can be lonely sometimes as I have no one share those ideas and realizations with.

BUT I hate classes which is why I didn’t spend much time in university.

And no-one to edit, or separate the crap from the good.

I do, and I’m a high school dropout. I don’t think I’m worth any less than a person with a degree, but I know I missed a lot by not going to college. If only the chance to explore, think, and be more well rounded.

As far as I can see, there’s no downside to more education.

Most of those college dropouts learned things or met people or had opportunities they would not have had if they had not been in college. Harvard, in particular, seems to have a hugely beneficial impact on people’s lives, whether they finish school or not.

Also, you only mentioned five out of the top 16 people. What about the rest of them? Did they go to college? Did they finish it?

Finally, you finished college, and are now in grad school. Are you complaining about college or grad school? You’d never have gotten into grad school without having a college degree. And you have earned a living as a grad student for how many years now? Maybe not being paid that much, but still, a lot of people are unemployed in this economy. I don’t doubt that your training, even if you don’t finish it, we add tens of thousands of dollars annually to your income, should you choose to enter the labor market.

I don’t value it in a vacuum. I value people who have education and display their intellectual abilities (assuming they have them). But I know a number of people who claim great educational status who have little or no apparent ability in the real world, either mechanically, intellectually (in a philosophical sense) or mathematically. Maybe I’m not well enough educated myself to see the value, sometimes.

I wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that dropping out from higher education is a necessarily good thing; I believe that there are far more dropouts who were utter failures in lifetime endeavors than the handful of standout successes that we could name (some of whom you have named).

But judging by the number of over-educated twits I see daily who can’t string words together into a comprehensible or accurate sentence… I reserve judgment on the value of a person’s education until some sort of result is demonstrated. I once made the observation as an undergrad that the value of a four-year degree to an employer is proof that “this person can put up with four years of bullshit, so maybe he can also last in our organization for awhile.” As soon as I made the observation, I quit school. I’ve been with my current employer for nearly a quarter-century now, so my results may not be typical, but I stand by the observation.

Well, making it big without a formal education is certainly possible. However, it is kind of like becoming a rock star. Sure, there is that 1 in a gabillian chance that you will become wildly successful. People have certainly done it before. Just look at <insert your favorite rock star here>. However, the reality of the situation is you are much more likely to wind up like that guy with his guitar case open on the street corner playing for spare change.

A formal education is only partially about the things you learn in the classes. The real value is learning how to achieve a well defined end within the established framework (which is what you will have to do when you get a real job in the real world), and our diploma is a confirmation of the fact that you have, in fact, been successful in doing so at least once.

I value it. Those that are at the top of their field are there because they are simply brilliant and not graduating did not hold them back.
I however think if you look at Forbes top 100 you might find statistics show it does matter. Carlos Helu, Warren Buffet, Sam Walton, etc etc.. Over the years the statistics far outweigh the non-grads.

Many police officers have Associates Degrees and some have Masters Degrees. For me, I have an Associates Degree and I cannot see that having this degree makes a whole lot of difference in my police occupation. The only monetary difference is 5% increase in my salary. I guess that is something.

For five years, it was a requirement of at least an Assoc. Degree, before a person could qualify as a police applicant. After five years, my department decided that having an Assoc. Degree is not necessary, that common sense in a person, made better police officers. And, I agree. A lot of good applicants were being overlooked, simply because they did not have that degree.

Having a formal education can make a difference, depending on what occupation a person is shooting for. The only difference for me was that 5% salary increase and I am not complaining.

For every example of a successful high school/college drop out, you can find a thousand failures. It does not follow that because a handfull of successful people dropped out means you don’t need a proper education to be successful.

What each of those people had going for them was the ability to be in the right place at the right time. Many of the ideas of successful people were actually thought of long ago, by someone else, but the time and place were not right.

Having left education at 16 years old. I now, at 25, wish that I could go back. I don’t regret dropping out when I did, it was right at the time but now that I am too old to be entitled to free education, I am ready to go back to studying. I would really love to do some kind of history course. I wish I had valued formal education more when it was easier to get.

It has value, but it’s not the only option to make a lot of money. It also depends on what you major in, what college/university you attended, and how far you went with your major (masters, PhD).

There are two ways to make a lot of money without a formal education. 1. Any type of entrepreneurship (although some are better then others). or 2. Investing (also some are better then others).

Case and point; I’m 24 with only a high school diploma, and I’m almost earning more then both of my parents combined salaries. Dad is a lawyer, Mom is a doctor, & both are Ivy league graduates. I chose investing and studied whatever I needed to know on my own. If you’re working for yourself, you don’t need a piece of paper telling you that you graduated something.

So not only did they spend a lot of time and money getting where they’re now, but they’re forever capped at a salary (they can only earn so much and that is it). The only way out of it is opening up a private practice (entrepreneurship) or investing on the side.

That’s why I personally find formal education valueless. If you can make money without it, then why spend all that time and money for it?

When I was college, I wasn’t into the whole completion thing (BCR).
I was learning a ton, but not getting course credit.
Through my career, that really hasn’t hurt me, but I do miss that degree.
So I didn’t value it then, but I do now.

Not really. I mean, given the disconnect between certification and knowledge, it’s not like formal education is any guarantee that you actually know your shit. Accordingly, I feel that there is nothing that a degree can get you that you can’t get by giving HR a blow-job. A degree opens doors, but a degree won’t keep you from falling on your face as soon as you go through the doorway.

For instance, the engineers where I work may know more about the chemical composition of the metal I cut for a living, but next to no idea about what is/isn’t possible with a 3-axis 50-taper CNC machine, what is technically possible but unfeasible (too expensive and/or would kill the production schedule), or how to do what is feasible. That degree of theirs doesn’t help get shit done and often puts crazy ideas in their head.

@augustlan I spent the first year of my time in the Navy in classrooms and acting crazy, and then the rest of my early-20s (the time most people use for college) traveling the world, getting drunk, partying hard when I wasn’t working, and adding to my practical skillset when I wasn’t partying. Which makes you more well-rounded; paying thousands in tuition, or haggling with Kenyan street merchants over the price of a mug of sugar cane juice?

Richard Branson of Virgin records, etc, was no genius, and he was a drop out. The only thing college is really good for, other then finding many wild females for a hard shag is learning something that won’t make you wealthy like oceanography, astronomy, etc, or to be someone else’s high priced ”wage slave”, like an accountant, engineer, etc. What US schools need to do is teach those who don’t live turtle lives to get out of the shell and have the tools to be successful working for themselves, not swapping sweat for dollars making someone else wealthy.

@saracore I understand your point, and I honestly doubt I’d be making much (any?) more money with a formal education. The value, for me, lies not in money, but in the experience itself.

@jerv I understand your point, too, but I did not make those choices (and probably never would – being the introverted, peace-loving homebody that I am). Instead, I started working in one soul-killing job after another, just to support myself. Given all three scenarios, I’d still pick getting the education, for myself.

Ah, well the questionnaire mentioned money in the details, so I was rolling with that in mind.

That’s a hell of an expensive experience though. If you want just the educational aspect, then I think books at your local library should suffice. That is basically what I did. There are also a lot of free educational content online.

Or did you mean that you wanted the whole college/university environment as well (professors, campus, dorms, class rooms, students)?

@saracore Like you, I do educate myself by reading just about everything I can get my hands on. So it’s not so much the educational aspect (though my depth of knowledge on any particular topic could probably be improved.) It’s more the experience as a whole that I feel I missed out on. The opportunity to shape my future self, I guess.

Educationally speaking, I also feel that if I’d been exposed to some concepts at an earlier age (college-age), I’d have been better off, and not just financially. As an adult, I learned about a lot of things on my own that have had a huge impact on how I view the world and my place in it. If I’d had that knowledge earlier, who knows what I would have done with it, you know? Though who can say if those things would have had such an impact on the younger me. It’s hard to judge in hindsight.

Anyway, I’m 44 years old now, and have done the best I can with what I’ve got. Can’t spend too much time regretting the past at this point. :)

It’s never too late for regrets.

On a side note quote de jour vis-a-vis regrets; You ask me about regret? Let me tell you a few things about regret, my darling. There is no end to it. You cannot find the beginning of the chain that brought us from there to here. Should you regret the whole chain, and the air in between, or each link separately, as if you could uncouple them? Do you regret the beginning which ended so badly, or just the ending itself?—- White Oleander

Half of life is fucking up – the other half is dealing with it.

@zensky speak for yourself! I only spend ⅓ of my life screwing up. :-P

I most certainly value formal education, but not necessarily for the monetary benefits that come along with it (I mean that certainly is a plus though). I love education because I love learning and gaining knowledge. Back in high school I was a complete slacker, I didn’t care about learning anything interesting, but rather just having fun. Now that I’ve gotten older, the famous quote, “Knowledge is power” has really sunken its teeth into me and won’t let go. Everywhere I turn I can see examples of how education and intellect can offer a person a “head-start” in this world. When you have formal education, it not only teaches you random knowledge that can facilitate almost all external aspects of life (e.g. taxes, car-care, home living), but it also teaches a person how to be a good person, in every sense of the word. I consider myself very lucky because of the university that I am currently attending (Regis University in Denver, CO), since it teaches everything else that other colleges offer (i.e. math, sociology, psychology, business, etc.) but does so using the frame of “How ought we to live?” Perhaps I am speaking out of my personal experience, one based in the idiosyncratic education of Regis, but I would argue that formal education is THE most important thing a person can ever obtain.

@RedmannX5 I also value education; that is why I continue to teach myself stuff.

You can “educate” yourself no matter where you are. I am very much an autodidact as I’ve spent a negligible amount of time in university but I’ve spent the last 20 years constantly learning and I expect to continue. I’m not sure there is much of difference between me and someone who attended university besides the official stamp they carry on their degree. In some ways my education was better because I went out and found it (I’m quite aware of verifying sources).

@jerv Yes I continually am teaching myself things, even if at the time I don’t really have a use for that particular, oftentimes random, knowledge, because I’ve found that there have been numerous times in my life where a certain piece of seemingly useless knowledge has become a huge benefit in some situation. Everyday I wear a bracelet that says, “Eventually Everything Connects.” Very interesting thought to have.

@tranquilsea Thank you for teaching me the word “autodidact,” I’ve always wondered if there was a specific word for a self-taught person. And I would probably tend to agree with you, regarding real-world self-teaching, because I think that oftentimes it’s not the end goal, the telos, that you learn from, but rather the long road of reaching that goal. And I’m sure that you going out and finding knowledge, as you put it, has taught you numerous things on top of the actual knowledge you were seeking.

@zensky If it’s all the same to you, I’d rather spend half my life fucking, not fucking up. Unless the fucking up was necessary in order to get the fucking.

Yeah, yeah, TMI. Just saying.