What might be a way to avoid confusing "it's" with "its"?

It is because the -‘s suffix means two things, a contraption of is and the possessive form (the genitive case) of a noun. People tend to get into the habit of typing/writing ‘s whenever they think either of those, to the point of it being an unconscious action. As far as I know, there is no other noun or pronoun that does not end with -‘s. It is just evil when the correct -s ending is so close to the intuitive -‘s.

@PhiNotPi: That’s the trouble with contraptions, isn’t it?

Stupid spellchecker, but contraption does seem like a unique analogy for the situation.

I used to use the apostrophe until someone confused me by saying it’s always means “it is.”
Being dyslexic and often sleep deprived it kills me to doubt what I thought I always knew.

I am hoping to get a primer here.

I find that simple solutions are the best. Whenever I write “it’s” I always rephrase with “it is” in my head to see if it makes sense. Proper grammar is like proper calculation: it never hurts to double-check.

@SavoirFaire That is what I try to do. Glad to have confirmation.

I also think that the “Related” questions are really funny! =======>

For me, I decide if saying “it is” makes sense or not… and if it doesn’t, I go with “its”...

@Dog: MIlo here; That dopey Gail…what a memory. She deserves all the ridicule you can heap on her. But to be fair, the problem continues.

And she did manage to think of different and creative ways to ask the question.

Then what is the apostrophe rule about using names that end with “s”?

James took Santos’ pet spider.
James took Santos pet spider.

Is #1 correct?

While we are at it I also need clarification on where punctuation lands in a quote.
Santos yelled “Stop you spider theif!”

Is there ever a time where the ”,” ”?” or ”!” lands outside the quotes?

::::edit HI MILO! :::::::

I agree with @AnonymousGirl.

Also, sometimes when I’m typing I add apostrophes where they don’t belong on accident. However the edit feature here doesn’t last long enough for me to repair my odd mishaps.

@Dog “James took Santos’ pet spider” and “James took Santos’s pet spider” are both correct, but “James took Santos pet spider” is not. I personally have a strong preference for “James took Santos’ pet spider.”

As for your other question, commas and periods always go inside the quotation marks in American English unless a comma is needed to separate quoted phrases that have their own terminal punctuation (see the question here for more about this rare exception).

A question mark or exclamation point can land inside or outside of the quotation marks depending on whether the quoted phrase or the complete sentence is the question/exclamation.

Examples:

• Did she just say “call me”?
• Sally cried “why would you do this to me?”
• Were you there when Michael asked “what is the meaning of this?”

Note in the last example how the question mark goes inside the quotation marks when the complete sentence and the quoted phrase are both questions.

@SavoirFaire Thank you so much! It makes perfect sense now. I really appreciate the clarifications here.

@SpatzieLover I discovered a trick with editing answers… even if your editing time is up. Just click the back button on your browser and do it. It still works. Fluther is awesome like that. :)

Someone at work asked me this same question once, and I told him confidently that I had a great memory aid for him. I said to remember to treat the possessive one—its—the same as its siblings, all the other possessive pronouns with s: yours, ours, theirs, hers, and especially his. None of them has an apostrophe. Its is part of that same group. I said “especially his” because you would never be tempted to insert an apostrophe there. No one would ever write hi’s.

I said, “If you can remember his, you can remember its.”

Hah.

(I used to believe that some things were impossible. This was before I saw people write things like “Do you think he like’s me?” and “Prince of Wale’s” and, yes, once even “Miley Cyru’s.” This was before I ever heard or saw anyone say “My wife and I’s,” as in “My wife and I’s favorite vacation spot is….” Would they really say “This is I’s son” or “Would you like to borrow I’s pen?” or “Come on into I’s office.”? Maybe they would. My confidence in impossibles is thoroughly shaken.)

Naturally my colleague replied, “But all the regular possessives do have the apostrophe.”

So I just said “Look. It’s with an apostrophe always means ‘it is’ and nothing else. Just memorize that.”

At last report he was still misspelling it.

At least the demonic possession with which @gailcalled is afflicted, although perhaps a bit bothersome, is only grammatical and not vomitatious.
Pea soup anyone?

I would like to note that the iPhone auto-correct-replace feature always replaces “its” to “it’s”. You have to manually x-out the correction before typing the next word. So if you’re typing along briskly, it’s always “it’s”.

@cprevite, yes—and the text is so tiny that one cannot detect the anomaly.

@ratboy: Yeah. It’s very annoying.

It also always replaces “hell” with “he’ll”. What the he’ll?!?!

@cprevite I also type on the iPhone and iPad…. autocorrect can be brutal and awkward….

It’s reflexive in some people, I think, who attempt to show “the appearance of learning” without the actual learning having happened.

We see the same thing in the way people confuse cases in pronouns. They’ve been corrected so many times to not say “Him and me did something” that they now appear to understand (and at least they will say) “He and I did something.” That gets carried over to the case where instead of saying “Mother fed him and me” (which is correct), they say “Mother fed he and I”, which is incorrect, even jarringly so, but is commonly spoken by even supposedly educated people.

I hasten to say that this is not the case with @gailcalled.

@CWOTUS: Milo here: Are you sure? And who do you think does most of her ghost writing?

@Dog

I like that 80% of the “related questions” are @gailcalled‘s . (Funny. Try writing @gailcalled – apostrophe-s – period and pay close attention to what Fluther does with the sequence. Maybe we can blame more of our “typos” on Fluther.)

I give her the benefit of any doubt, @Milo.

Its my party and I’ll kvetch if I want too. The to, too and twos hurt, too.

Uhh, so, @SpatzieLover… Never mind that trick. After I said that, it seemed to stop working. Coincidence? I feel like I “jinxed” myself. =(

Its’ simply beyond comprehension!

When I was in the 3rd grade, I had a teacher who was maybe two years younger than God. She taught “it’s” as a possessive, as in “Did that sweater lose it’s buttons?”

I had that notion of usage corrected by every subsequent teacher but early impressions do stick. When I’m tired or in a hurry that bloody possessive “it’s” will come out.

@SavoirFaire:

1) Sally cried “why would you do this to me?”
2) Were you there when Michael asked “what is the meaning of this?”

!) Why not: Sally cried, “Why would you do this to me?”

2) Why not: Were you there when Michael asked, “What is the meaning of this?”

Doubtless, you will disapprove, but I would tell my (biology) students that it’s should only be used when they mean “it is”. Likewise, I told them they should remember that “affect” should only be used as a verb and “effect” only as a noun. Neither of these is strictly true, of course, but it cleaned up their writing quickly and effectively, since these are easy rules to remember, and the exceptions are very seldom used by comparison.

@dappled_leaves affect/effect gets me every time. I understand the verb/noun idea but I still question myself and usually end up looking for synonyms to avoid the whole issue.

@Blueroses It’s a very common problem, and an unavoidable one in science writing.

@gailcalled No objection to those changes. My sentences were examples, not the only correct ways of writing something. I suppose the comma is standard in the “Sally cried” example, but I rather loathe it in the “Michael asked” example. The capital letters could go either way. We may be quoting a phrase of what was said, after all, and not the entirety.

THANK YOU CPREVITE AND DOG

I was hoping someone would point out the obvious.

Before you assume that the writer has not the foggiest notion of where apostrophes belong, take a breath and realize that their dumb smartphone may be the problem here. It’s a machine after all.

Do you have any idea how many millions of iPhones ( and now ipads) are out there all inserting unnecessary apostrophes? Come on people. Get real.

I reach a point of “correcting autocorrect fatigue” and 90% of the population (away from Fluther) doesn’t know the difference anyhow.

So I don’t always mop up after my phone. So, sue me already, (but kindly don’t assume that I am ignorant of proper usage. I’m simply tired of correcting my phone). It just never learns :)

@dappled

You are correct and it’s a quick down and dirty way of getting the job done most of the time.

But just cross your fingers hoping that they won’t be entering the Psych domain and end up needing to describe whats wrong with the AFFECT(noun) of their schizophrenic patient.

:D

I’m quite sure this whole issue bedevils the professors of Psychology who haven’t the luxury of consigning the whole mess to either noun/verb categories. I’d love to hear their take on the whole mess.

@Buttonstc I’m sure they would like to see us effect some change where teaching this topic is concerned. :)

Good one !

:D

@Buttonstc Many of us have never used a smartphone in our lives, so in what way is letting people know how they insert mistakes “pointing out the obvious”? And while I understand your point about being charitable in one’s interpretation, you rather undermine your own point when you assert that “90% of the population [...] doesn’t know the difference anyhow.” If that’s true, why should I assume that the mistakes I see are solely the fault of “correcting autocorrect fatigue”? Your own statistic suggests otherwise.

@SavoirFaire

Yes, I did say that but you’re quoting of me has omitted an important qualifier. Namely, the parenthetical phrase: (APART FROM FLUTHER).

Granted, my pessimistic estimation of 90% has no scientifically verifiable data. It was a “guesstimate” of the generally appalling state of English usage on the Internet in general, EXCLUDING FLUTHER.

I could, of course, be wrong on the actual percentage. But, if so, my hunch is that I’m not wrong by much.

You are entitled to your own opinion on the matter and if you’re more optimistic about the level of written language proficiency on the Internet (apart from Fluther), then that makes you far more optimistic about that than I. Good for you :)

I’m well aware that until fairly recently, most of us were blissfully unaware of the vagaries of a telephone touch keyboard and the inadvertent errors produced if one does not obsessively keep an eagle eye on it every single typing moment.

Were this even as little as five years ago, the awareness of this was as you stated. Not that high indeed.

But this is now and the numbers have flipped over. The Luddites still using ordinary flip-phones and regular computer keyboards are clearly in the minority.

Initially, this thread had been proceeding with no mention of the errors produced by the now-ubiquitous and NEARLY inescapable dumb-smartphone. Hence my relief at someone finally “stating the obvious”. Was my reaction a bit hyperbolic? Yeah, but there were recent precipitating factors outside the thread.

Five years ago it wasn’t obvious. But with the market saturation by IOS, Android and other smartphones OS, I believe it’s been effectively reversed. You may not see it that way so YMMV and I’m not interested in debating the point since it’s largely a matter of opinion.

Was I overreacting somewhat to the whole autocorrect phenomenon? Sure, your point is well taken. I have to make a mental note to myself to never Fluther while under the influence of…...Prednisone.

I hate that crap. It really sends my CNS into hyperdrive and my irritability goes through the roof. I’m definitely not my normally sanguine, relatively calm self.

Since it was prescribed as part of treatment for Pneumonia, NOT taking it is simply not an option. I’ve developed rather a fondness for breathing :)

But everytime I see Prednisone on the prescription bottle, I quake in my boots a bit since I know the shitstorm that awaits.

Anyhow, I finished the last of it and normal perspective is beginning to return. Too bad there is no ability to erase previous postings on Fluther.

Anyhow, my final thoughts on the entire angst surrounding when the word its requires an apostrophe or not is thus:

Damn you, Autocorrect.

Since I used to teach this stuff for a living, you (collectively “you”) or y’all may safely assume that I actually DO know when an apostrophe is called for and when not.

My phone, however, has not the foggiest notion, being a dumb machine.

I’m not averse to discussing the proper usage of its in a question, regardless of how oft repeated or pedantic.

But if you’re planning to continue inserting a little reminder whenever I fail to mop up after my phone, assuming that I’m the one who doesn’t know, you will likely get the same reaction.

Back off already. One may be under the impression that inserting (charming?) little reminders everytime there’s a misplaced apostrophe, is educational. But one would be wrong (at least in my case) since I’m in the small subset of those who actually do know simply from the necessity of having to teach it year after year.

If you think it’s difficult getting the proper usage of its across to other adults, try explaining it to Third graders sometime. Let me assure you, SISYPHEAN is barely adequate to describe the effort.

Because of the advent of cellphone autocorrect technological advances(?) I honestly think it’s too late to try to keep fighting the battle against the errant apostrophe.

That ship has sailed already. Those who don’t know where an apostrophe belongs are unlikely to have a sudden blinding revelation over it simply due one’s constant effort to insert a reminder upon each occasion of wrong use. Realistically, that’s not going to happen. Just face it and move on already.

Since one can never be entirely sure whether errors in the writings of another are due to common ignorance/ confusion, or simply attributable to fatigue with aggressively policing their phone, how can pointing it out constantly do any good?

Believe me, I’ve spent half a lifetime pointing it out to Third graders, but that was in a vastly different time period, so I understand the frustration.

Unless you have a genius plan for banning cellphone postings on Internet forums, or figured out more accurate algorithms for phone autocorrect, it won’t get any better. It will only get worse. Deal with it :)

Pestering me for failing to police my phone will do little other than irk me and make me even more recalcitrant to put forth the effort over something as petty as a misplaced apostrophe. The surrounding context and sentence structure are quite sufficient to avoid confusion, so what purpose is served?

And I have a very strong feeling that I’m not the ONLY one who feels this way.

Kindly don’t misconstrue all of this as as me proposing laxity or laziness in maintaining grammatical standards. I’m simply aiming for reasonable (as opposed to perfect)

One of the key principles regarding the disciplining of one’s children is: Choose your battles wisely.

The exact same principle can be extrapolated to LOTS of other situations. Hopefully, I won’t have to draw it in crayon for y’all :)

@Buttonstc; So, should we move on to the debate over “Hopefully vs. I hope” ?

Cute :)

But seriously, I wasn’t aware that there even was any debate over that one at all.

But if you’ve got the energy and optimism for it, by all means, do proceed :)

For the nonce, I need a nap.

Yes, I know it’s only noon, but exhaustion is exhaustion, after all.

@Buttonstc: It’s another non-starter these days. However, in certain corridors, that debate has been going on with ferocity and doggedness for years.

Lovely little essay, BTW.

@Buttonstc All I get out of your response is “I was wrong, but I want to write a whole lot so it looks like I wasn’t.” The qualifier is irrelevant. The point was that your cry for charity is in logical tension with your pessimism. Market saturation is also irrelevant. That most smartphones use iOS does not mean that most people use iOS.

Regardless, the question is about ways to help people avoid confusing “its” and “it’s.” A rant about reasons for the error that have nothing to do with confusion is, yet again, irrelevant—particularly since it does nothing to defend either of the contentions to which I actually responded.