Can my Mother lose her housing because of me?

If you are not living with her, then you should not say that you are.

Is she saying that she’ll lose the place if you move out?

I’m confused. Why are you applying for social security?

If you are not really living somewhere, don’t say that you are when it comes to these programs. The government can come back after money if they find fraud, require it be paid back. This is not like saying a child lives at a different address just to get them into a better school district, this is much more serious in my opinion.

@marinelife I am living with her, I just use a different address to attend school.
@Dutchess_III Yes, we have a two bedroom apartment and she said if I leave, she’ll have to get a one bedroom apartment.
@JLeslie I am applying for social security because my Father put me down as his only child and I am entitled to it. I am aware. I want to ask the school if my Mother’s address is in the district but I’m scared that they may get suspicious and kick me out. It took me a very, very long time to get accepted into this school and I do not want to get thrown out.

@Marchofthefox So the school is still high school? District info is usually easily found on the web.

@JLeslie Yes, a junior in High school.

@Marchofthefox Let’s see if I have this straight. The school thinks you live with your dad, but housing thinks you live with your mom? And, you really do live with your dad.

Ok, worst case, if you moved out your mom would not “lose” her housing, only have to move to one that met her actual needs. It is going to happen at some point because you are going to go at some point, the only question is when.
My folks became the legal guardians of my best friends older sister when their family moved to another town so she could stay and finish her senior year. You might look into that option.

@JLeslie Exactly! I’m sorry if I didn’t clarify. The only reason why I don’t have my checks mailed to him is because he is not my legal guardian.
@rojo That’s what I’m saying! But my Mom isn’t having it. :/

Well, you have to move out sometime! Is your mom planning to keep you there forever so she won’t have to move to a one bedroom?
But if you’re only a Jr. in HS, why do you want to move out?

@rojo But, I’m no longer a minor, no one has to sign for me anymore!

@Dutchess_III I’m already eighteen years old. :o I started school late, I am a junior but am technically a senior with the credits I have.

True, I missed that.

@Marchofthefox Does your mom help support you? If so she might still qualify for housing, unless where she lives also depends on how many people live on the premises.

But automatically turning 18 doesn’t mean you have to move out, or that it’s a good idea. You planning on staying in school? How are you going to support yourself? How are you going to pay rent? Do you have a job? Are you willing to go to school full time and work full time?

@Dutchess_III She lives with her dad already.

@Dutchess_III I do not wish to get into details but, I do have a place to stay and am prepared.
@JLeslie No, no! I use my DAD’S address to go to school, I live with my Mother.

Your job right now should be to do the best you can in school and live where you have the best chance of doing well. Not where you have the most fun.
Do the best you can so you can get out of the dependency/welfare cycle you appear to be in. Do not expect taxpayers to continue to support you.
Stay in school. Do your homework and do well. It might not be the most fun for 2 years but it will really help in the long run.

@Marchofthefox Oh, that was not what I wrote when you said I had it exactly. Ok, why are you going to rock the boat? The school thinks you are with your dad and they have not caught on. Housing knows you are living with your mom. I don’t get it? Why are you going to change anything? Basically you are lying to the school.

I really don’t know how you can get social security AND be a dependent child. I think it depends on what state your are in as well. My sister works in the benefits office for a county in the state of Wisconsin. She deals with problems like this all day long. You need to find out, NUMBER ONE, if you qualify for Social Security because you have NEVER paid into it and because you are still living as a dependent child. Do you have a baby? A disability?

I’m thinking his Dad is in the school district he’s attending. I can’t tell if Dad is getting benefits for the OP.

It is all very, very confusing and I agree with @LuckyGuy….get off the charity boat.

Oh, and supplying false information to the school district is one thing. Supplying false information to the Social Security office is quite another.

GEEZ, my father was retired Army and on forced social security retirement due to disability when I turned 18 and i NEVER ever would have thought, for a second, of marching into the social security office and asking for a check.

@Marchofthefox Do you work? I think you should get a job and stop the cycle. You will feel great earning your own money. The first job may not be great, it might, but if it is not seek out another. Part time work while still in school. I starting working when I was 14. Unless you are in an extremely rigorous academic curriculuum like AP Physics, Calculus, etc, where much of your hours are seriously studying, or you are the star athlete on your school team, I recommend a job to all teenagers. Maybe you already work, again I have no idea.

My teenage niece and nephew were completely against getting off their selfish, entitled, lazy butts (I am not implying you are selfish, entitled, or lazy, but if you are you will never move out of the situation you live in now) and now that my nephew finally got a job at age 19 he has stated, “I wish I had started working a long time ago.” both kids were sure work sucks, because their mom complained all the time about her job. They didn’t get how great it can feel to have your own money in your pocket and gain independence through financial independence.

@LuckyGuy I work hard. I have a 3.8 GPA that proves it. I don’t want to mooch of the government, I know that isn’t right. But, thank you for your concern. I need this money to get out on my own, as long as I could remember, my parents always took what was mine and I was always slumming it, even with the money they had. Its wrong what they did to me and this is my chance to get out in the world and actually prepare for a decent life.

@JLeslie I am all for working, but I do not not have a job, I continuously look for one, I go to school and I do volunteer work. I would love to stop the cycle, believe me I would! My Mother is very lazy and likes to mooch. My Dad is the complete opposite, he was working since he was sixteen and barely stopped last year due to a stroke.

@Cazzie
“GEEZ, my father was retired Army and on forced social security retirement due to disability when I turned 18 and i NEVER ever would have thought, for a second, of marching into the social security office and asking for a check.”

Okay, so what are you implying that I’m selfish and greedy? You don’t have the right to judge me, you DO NOT know where I come from and the struggles I’ve been through.
Maybe you had a decent life, where you had a little money and didn’t have to worry about a thousand things that shouldn’t matter to young adults. But guess what? I did.
So, are you saying that children that receive social security via their parents, that they’re greedy and lazy?

Are you applying for SS because you have a disability? Unless you do, you will probably not be entitled to SS.

If your mom lives in Public Housing or has Section 8, she will have to move to a smaller unit.

@jca I am applying because of my Father. He is disabled.

Not telling the truth from day one, will catch up to you sooner or later.

Taking everything into consideration, the worst may be yet to come.

Housing project frown on people not telling them the truth.

@john65pennington The only thing I’m lying about is my address so I can attend school.
I live with my mother, for the last time.

You are not entitled to SS because your father is disabled.

@jca When I went to the office they said that my father had put my name down to receive.
What am I missing?

Your father does not determine who receives SS. If he is deceased, you are entitlted to Survivor’s Benefits until you are 18. At 18, you are legally an adult and can earn your own income.

So as a dependent, your parents will receive additional money from social security to help pay your costs.

That ends when you’re no longer a dependent though, as I understand it.

So if you move out, don’t do it because you’ll receive a check, you probably won’t.

I think you can get disability social security as a dependent child up to age 19 if you are in secondary school.

Take the money, keep up the good work at school, and get away to college after your senior year. Start looking at universities now.

@jca “Although children under age 18 who are eligible for these benefits might be disabled, Social Security does not need to consider their disability to qualify them for benefits. Note: A child can continue receiving dependents or survivors benefits until age 19 if he or she is a full-time student in elementary or high school.”

http://www.legal-aid.org/selfhelp/benefits/SSD.html

@JLeslie That’s what I’m trying to say. Thank you.

@Marchofthefox, I am currently on SSD. I paid into the system and I am disabled. It took me years to receive what little I am entitled to because I paid into the system and cannot work any longer. I also had to hire a lawyer. I think it is people like you who have not paid into the system and who are able to support themselves is the reason that those of us entitled to receive benifite have so many hoops to jump through to receive SSD.

@funkdaddy If that’s so, thank you.
Thank you for not making me feel guilty.

@GracieT The OP is still in school! The money helps her parents. Are you saying you would not take the benefit that would help your children? She can not easily support herself while still in high school. Demanding that of children will likely contunue a cycle of poverty, not the opposite.

@JLeslie: I believe “secondary school” means college.

@jca In America it means eaither 9–12 and in some case, maybe it is regional differences, as early as 6–12. Many schools run k-8, and then high school is separate.

You are thinking of Tertiary Education also known as post secondary and higher education.

Either way, I’m still in High school and depend on my parents. I wasn’t trying to make it seem like all I want is the money. That isn’t the case. I just want to know what my options are, because all my parents do is take from me and I’m left with nothing and I believe I deserve a chance at something even if it is small.

@GracieT I do not appreciate the comment you made towards me. Why are you trying to make me look bad? Yes, there are people who will take the easy way out and there are people who ACTUALLY need support like yourself. Mind you, a lot of things I need to do, I do myself. I need help, is that such a crime? I wouldn’t be in this situation if my parents knew how to control their finances and had taken proper care of me.
Okay, and answer me this, what about College students that ACTUALLY need financial aid that come from poor homes and WANT an education, are they making it harder for others to receive benefits, too?

I just went on the SS website and it says you will have to verify and the school will have to verify your address. So you are going to run into a problem with that, if you are using two different addresses (contrary to what people think government agencies DO communicate with each other).

@Marchofthefox Does the check actually go to you?

@jca That is EXACTLY why I am asking this question. But, I do believe my Mother’s home is in the district of the school I am attending. Before my Mother had moved, I stayed with my Father until my Mother was able to find a home for us. We are asking today if my home is in the district.

@Marchofthefox Technically it seems you should be getting some disability benefits from your dad already. Why hadn’t anyone applied for it before?

The information @jca just came up with could cause a problem. I think you need to find out if your mom is districted for your school, if not find out how you might get an exceotion to stay at the school you are in now if it is important. Maybe they have a special program or class that can keep you there, like a language not taught at the other school, or a specific line of coursework.

Also, if you already have credits to be a senior, why not try to graduate early? I did. I finished midyear senior year.

I am sorry, you are correct. I did jump to conclusions. My first response is that you should have given us more information, but I did rush to judgement. I am sorry.

@Marchofthefox What county and state do you live in? We can google the districts for you.

@JLeslie: If the school has her living with her mom in the district, and she is going to try to say she should get some benefits from living with her dad, who is on SS, she can’t legally live in two places.

@Marchofthefox I am not judging you. This is just something I didn’t know existed. I had graduated high school by the time I was 18 and was half way through trade school. By 19 I was out of my parent’s house, paying rent and working three jobs and saving to move to New Zealand. (Which I managed to do after a year.)

I think families in need should get all the help they qualify for. If you honestly qualify for a bit of money every week to help your family out, then you should get it and use it to study hard and relieve some of your thousand worries. I also am on your side when it comes to being able to go to the school of your choice. I think the rules in the US really stink in regards to school zones.

Knowledge is power. I am sure you can find someone in an SS office that can help answer your questions. Just put it to them as a hypothetical so they don’t have to go nosing into your file and such. I don’t know if the SS office and the school district share information, so if you are registered as living with your father, perhaps the SS office has no knowledge of that and wouldn’t care anyway, perhaps? I don’t know, but that would be my first question. OH,,, edit: I see @jca just verified that the SS office and the school confirm details. Bugger.

@jca Then why did my Dad put my name down to receive benefits? I think social security is giving me money in retro due to the fact that he didn’t pay child support for awhile.

@cazzie: on the SS site, it says the school will have to verify the address. These agencies are very cautious about people lying about things like addresses, so they’re going to verify and research all avenues.

@Marchofthefox Another thing you can look into in regards to the school district thing is if they have a school choice program. Some districts have a school choice program that allows students to choose to go to a school outside of their district. If the school you are going to has this, you would be able to use your mom’s address and wouldn’t have to use your dad’s anymore.

Also, I agree with @JLeslie, you could have been receiving the dependent benefits before now. Why wait until you are about to no longer be eligible to apply for them? You may have a harder time since you are already 18 and that’s when benefits usually end. From my experience, when a child is about to run out of benefits due to age, the SS office notifies them about 3 months before they turn 18 so that they can get the proper documentation in to the office showing that they are still in school so that they would continue to have their benefits. Since you are already 18, you may have a harder time getting the initial authorization for the benefits.

@Marchofthefox: He can put your name down if he wants to. What he puts is between you and him, but that does not mean that SS will not verify or is not entitled to verify. See it for yourself on the SS site – under “child’s benefits” which are also called “family benefits.”

@Seaofclouds: it seems the problem is not so much her going to school outside of her district, but her using two different addresses to two different government agencies.

@jca I understand that. From my understanding, she is using her dad’s only for the school at this point (and she lives with her mom). If she is able to use a school choice program, she wouldn’t need to lie about living with her dad and use his address. I don’t know what effect this will have on her applying for the SSD benefits though. That’s a separate issue. She might not have to live with her dad to get dependent benefits from him. She’d have to as the SS office about that.

@Seaofclouds My Dad had his stroke when I was sixteen going on seventeen and now that he is approved, I’m already eighteen.

It could work if they have the school choice program. However, if they don’t, she’s SOL. She is going to open a can of worms if she puts out the truth.

@jca I know this. But, there are a lot of people who lie about their address to attend school.

@seaofclouds: Where I live, they don’t have that program, so the district you lay your head in is supposed to be the district you go to school in.

@Marchofthefox: A lot of people lying about where they live to attend school does not mean that it’s right, and it does not mean you won’t get in trouble with doing it, especially if you lie about it to a government agency like SS. If you lie about your address to attend a certain school, it’s bad enough, but if you lie about your address to one agency (school) and then to another agency (SS), your information is going to be verified on both sides. When SS sends documents to the school, they are specifically going to ask if the address you provided them is the same that you provided to the school. Hello?!?!?!? Problem.

@jca Yes, I had agreed with you. That is why the OP needs to see if she can still go to the school in her dad’s district even if she lives with her mom. The SS benefit may not deoend on who she lives with, but only that she is still a dependent, I don’t know?

@jca I know, I am just saying!

@Marchofthefox A lot of people do lie about where they live for school, but I am not sure how often those people are also on SS benefits, that is what complicates it for you.

I know you are trying to do what is best. Seems likemyou are getting the infirmation now. Let us know if the school will allow you to stay even if you use your mom’s address. And, then the next question is can you get the SS benefit if you don’t live with your dad?

@Marchofthefox: You have a lot of curious people on here now that would appreciate an update as to the information you acquire and what the outcome is. Please provide an update as to what you learn and what the end result is.

Thanks.

JCA
The Update Lady

@Marchofthefox Also, just as a heads up, people have gotten arrested for lying about their address to get their children into a school in a different district than the one they live in. Some places take that very seriously. Could you move in with your dad?

@Marchofthefox I’m glad to hear your grades are good. Do you think they will stay that way if you move out? Will the freedom help or hinder your schoolwork?
Look in the mirror and answer that honestly.

@Seaofclouds: Where I live they get arrested and they get a bill from the school district asking for the money that the district would require from out of district students. In one of the local districts I know the tab is over $10,000 per year, and that’s one of the cheaper ones.

I will update.
@Seaofclouds I am aware, that’s why I did state that I lived with my Father while my Mother looked for a home for us. We had a notary and everything.

@LuckyGuy Yes, they will stay the same, because with my parents, I cannot focus, they put me under too much pressure.

Confused again. You plan to move out? So, really you have to worry about where you are going to live and the school district, and if you move out I don’t see how you will be considered a dependent, unless you can show your parents pay for your expenses?

It’s sad, but true that we never truly appreciate what our parents go through until we face the same thing they did. Seems we are condemned to make the same mistakes over and over and over. : (

Not sure how your mom providing false information to the Social Security office is something that “you did to her”. That’s her choice.

Regardless, fault doesn’t really matter here, does it? I mean, it’s not like you were really planning on living with her forever and ever, were you? You’re growing up and moving on into adulthood, which means a paper trail, credit history, etc. as your life happens. So she’s known all along that she is going to have to deal with the reduction in SS benefit at some point.

That’s what happens when someone lives on the government dole… they’ve got to play by those rules.

@Marchofthefox I’m a latecomer to this discussion… but I know the answer because my son’s girlfriend went through exactly the same situation.

If your mom lives in Section 8 housing or HUD housing, she is given a certain number of bedrooms based on how many people she supports. In my son’s girlfriend’s situation- her mom got a 3 bedroom apartment and was in there for 12 years while both of her kids were growing up—3 people = 3 bedrooms. Your situation- your mom + you = 2 bedrooms.

It’s important to note that she can get this even if this is not your primary residence because of visitations and probably joint custody.

Your mom has a 2 bedroom place because you are in school. It does not matter if you are 18 before you graduate, but as long as you are in high school, she gets to keep the 2 bedroom place. Once you graduate, the law says she must move to a 1 bedroom apartment because you are 1. over 18, 2. not in high school (college doesn’t count) and 3. not severely disabled.

It will not be “your fault” when she moves to a 1 bedroom place—that’s just how the system is set up. It is NOT your or her choice- it’s the law governing HUD homes.

@linguaphile: You’re correct. However, if you read the discussion since the question was written, the OP has bigger issues, like giving two different addresses to two different government agencies.

I’m reading the responses and your comments – but it’s all very confusing. Always tell the truth, and you won’t go wrong.

To be out on your own literally means you are self-supporting, not that you receive government benefits.

Honesty is always the best policy, and it sounds like you have an issue with that.

@jca Yes, but is that because his parents are divorced and had joint custody? That isn’t clear but that’s what I’m assuming happened. Really, the OP wouldn’t be the one giving the address to the government agencies—his parents would and it sounds (to me at least) like his parents might have had shared custody of some kind even if the primary residence was with ‘dad.’

However, after turning 18, the OP is no longer under the joint custody rules—which could confuse matters, like which address to give to agencies at least until graduation.

I’m sorry, if I confused people.
This is what is happening, I CURRENTLY live with my Mother who is on the housing program.
Before my Mom found a place, I stayed with my DAD.
My Father signed up for Social security because he is disabled.
I am getting some of that money because he didn’t pay some of his child support and plus the fact that I am STILL in HIGH SCHOOL.
I wasn’t sure if my new home was in my School’s district so for awhile I used my Father’s address, we had a notary and everything!
But we have now figured out that my new home is INDEED in the district, so everything is fine now.
I was just curious if I had my benefits mailed to my Dad’s house, would that mess up my Mom’s housing arrangements? But Everything is in the clear.

Thank you all for your answers and support. This was a very difficult question for me.

P.S. By having that money, I could save to get my own place, away from my parents. I know to get far in life, I HAVE to have an education and work hard! The social security would help me greatly. Also, not instantly, but over time, I plan to move away from my parents. Sometimes, I don’t feel that they have their best interest for me, but only for themselves.

@Marchofthefox No, your mom’s housing arrangement won’t be messed up if your benefits are sent to your dad’s address since she is the one who reports your residence to the HUD people. Your residence/mailing address are two different things, and they don’t factor in any of your income until you graduate from high school.

SS does not make up for child support payments. The system would have run dry a long time ago. I think you may be getting payments because in the eyes of the law you’re still a minor. That will end when you are 19.

What did your parents take from you that was yours in the past?

@Dutchess_III Thank you for clearing that up.
I’m sorry, I don’t wish to talk about it. Its just personal.

Just curious…was it government money you think should have been given to you?

Who knew that SSI was meant to support non-disabled individuals? Glad I pay into the system…

@Marchofthefox: If you currently live with your mother, and you are 18 or over, I believe you have to report that income, regardless of whether or not you are in high school. You should double-check with the housing people (I used to work for Section 8, and I know that the income of everyone who lived in the apartment that was 18 or over was counted in to the total income of the household). If you are going to say you live with your dad, then your mom is going to be moving to a smaller unit.

@linguaphile It makes me sick that is it 3 occupants three bedrooms. That is the biggest rip off of American tax payers. Generally I am for helping the poor, and especially helping children, but no one will ever convince me kids cannot share a room. My dad and his sister shared a room, and his parents slept on a fold out coach because they were poor and could only afford one bedroom. I am not saying it should be that extreme, but middle class people all over the country have their children sharing rooms. In fact, sometimes they share rooms even when there is an extra bedroom, because they want to. My sister slept in my room our whole time growing up even though she had her own room after the age of 6. A girlfriend of mine has two boys and they live in a two bedroom apartment. Seriously, I just don’t see how we could have such a ridiculous rule. So, if a person has six kids, they get a 7 bedroom house?

@JLeslie: Opposite sex children over the age of 5 cannot share rooms, according to the rules. So if a person has six kids, it would depend on the genders to determine how many rooms they would have. Mom and a girl child can share a room forever, same with dad and a boy child.

@jca I can live with opposite sex children get their own rooms, but still, very poor, I am not sure if I am keen on footing the bill. I want to pay for them to have shelter and healthcare and food, but their own bedroom, not sure I am ok with it, especially if the kids are the same gender.

@JLeslie: Same gender shares a bedroom, as I explained.

@jca Yes, I was just repeating it back, but I don’t think above the age of 5 needs to be the cut off, maybe age 10. I don’t know, it just bothers me. It bothers me when the poor live better than and have more things than middle class people who cam even afford it. Don’t get me wrong, I am looking to punish the poor, I am just talking about when they live better. It doesn’t make sense, and it costs society when it is unnecessary. I say this when I am the same person who likes Singapore’s policy of providing affordable housing for all its citizens as a basic right.

@JLeslie: I agree. In many cases, the poor live better than the middle class because of things like the example of the bedroom issue.

Should be I am not looking to punish the poor. Sorry for typos.

1.) If the housing your mom is applying for is Section 8 or subsidized housing – the people who have children living with them get moved ahead of the people who do not. So, while she will not lose the right for low income housing, she will be moved down on the waiting list.

2.) I have to admit to being a bit distressed at your statement “I’m applying for SS because I am entitled to it”. I am not trying to chastise you, but being eligable for it because your father is on SSI in no way entitles you to anything. And it sounds like you want to SSI so you can save and get your own place. In effect, you want us, the tax payers, to fund your savings account. What ever happened to working and getting things on your own?

3.) Too many people in this country feel an unwarranted sense of entitlement, these days.It’s one of the reasons that social programs in this country are bloated and bankrupt. Everyone feels entitled to something for nothing.

@Eureka her parents live apart and since her father’s disabling stroke, he hasn’t been able to pay support. If she qualifies for a bit of money a month because her father is disabled and unable to contribute to her education and wellbeing, I am not going to begrudge her a few dollars until she finishes school and gets a job.

@Marchofthefox (If you live near Kingman, I can give you the name of someone in an admissions office at a technical college. I think you would find her quite inspirational to talk to. She is my niece.)

@Eureka: Her mom, I think, already lives in the housing, so she is not on a waiting list. She would be moving to a smaller unit, if it is found that the OP lives with her dad.

@JLeslie The HUD housing that my son’s girlfriend lived in had only up to 3 bedrooms and she had a brother. To be honest, I’m not sure how it is with same-gender kids or large families. The bedrooms were incredibly small- only big enough, really, for a twin bed, a dresser and a nightstand.

For HUD households, you have to fill out a form that reports your income every month. If there’s any change in income, your rent changes. They don’t get those places without a lot of hassle, they’re generally not as safe and it usually takes forever for anyone to come and fix anything. They might be getting assistance, but have to pay for the assistance with constant paperwork. I’ve seen how the people in the office run things and how they treat people- it is very demoralizing.

OP lives with her Mom. Just tells the school she lives with her dad.

What I don’t understand is why Mom would be sad that she’d have to move down to a 1 bedroom apartment. From what I’m getting,Mom is laying a guilt trip on the OP for it, and that’s just not right.

I think the OP is going to be in for a rude awakening when she suddenly no longer qualifies for tax-payer money to live.

Um, no, @Dutchess_III the OP is still struggling and going to school. She gets limited assistance from her parents, for what ever reason. She qualifies for a bit of public assistance because her father is disabled and she is still in school. She studies hard, gets good grades and is working toward her own goals.

She was telling the school she lived with her dad because she didn’t think the school district extended to her mother’s address and she didn’t want to have to change schools. Turns out, it isn’t the case and she can now tell the school her mother’s address for residency without that fear. (damn stupid rule anyway.) So, that point is moot.

She is continuing to live with her mother and therefore, they need the second bedroom, regardless of the fact that she has turned 18. She is still attending secondary school.

I think, with some excellent help from some constructive posters here, we have managed to help the OP with her fears of upsetting her mother etc.

If she wants to carry on to University, I hope she gets MORE public money for studying there. :oP

@linguaphile Don’t get me wrong, like I said I want people to have shelter, and to be safe for that matter. I had a friend who owned a lot of places that he rented out under section 8. It was a bonanza for him. Didn’t have to worry much about rent being paid, because the government paid a large portion of it.

I understood all of that @cazzie. I know they need the second room now, but the crux of the question was, what would happen if she moved.

I know she’ll also be eligible for Pell grants and loans for school. But it’s still a rough haul trying to live on just that. Plus she’ll have to pay the loans back. THAT’S a B!+@#.

What I just wrote makes me wonder if the government was out of the equation if rents would just come down? And, in turn homes prices would have been lower back 10 years ago? All this artificial ability to afford things like credit and government help creates false markets.

@JLeslie I, too, wasn’t clear. I do agree with you that taxpayers should not be paying for more than what a family needs to live. The system’s flawed, but homeless rates have gone down since the 80’s so… something has to be working.

Good question about artificial markets…