Social Question

Qingu's avatar

What did Ted Nugent mean when he said he'd either be dead or in jail if Obama wins re-election?

Asked by Qingu (21137 points ) April 20th, 2012

You may have heard the Secret Service is on to Ted Nugent in response to a delightful little rant he made at an NRA event. (full rant here) Nugent makes a number of statements that, if one interpreted them literally, seem to advocate taking violent action against Obama.

“Because I’ll tell you this right now: If Barack Obama becomes the president in November, again, I will either be dead or in jail by this time next year. Why are you laughing? Do you think that’s funny? That’s not funny at all. I’m serious as a heart attack.”

“Our president, attorney general, our vice president, Hillary Clinton, they’re criminals.”

“Because it isn’t the enemy that ruined America. It’s good people who bent over and let the enemy in. If the coyote’s in your living room, pissing on your couch, it’s not the coyote’s fault. It’s your fault for not shooting him.”

“Remember, we’re Americans because we defied the king. We didn’t negotiate and compromise with the king. We defied the emperors. We are patriots. We are Braveheart. We need to ride into that battlefield and chop their heads off in November.”

Now I’m sure that, as a liberal, my problem is that I am twisting Nugent’s words and not taking them in their proper context to make it seem like he’s actually threatening. Maybe the problem is that—much like parts of the Bible that seem outrageous when taken literally—we simply need to understand that Nugent is speaking in metaphors? What do you think?

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87 Answers

syz's avatar

Ted Nugent is a whack job. I never try to interpret his words ‘cause I don’t listen to them.

ragingloli's avatar

I think he is mixing up patriotism with treason. Because that is what defying the king is.
Also:
“Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God.
Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God’s wrath but also for the sake of conscience. For because of this you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, attending to this very thing. Pay to all what is owed to them: taxes to whom taxes are owed, revenue to whom revenue is owed, respect to whom respect is owed, honor to whom honor is owed.”

Judi's avatar

Sad thing is, he doesn’t realize that the Emperors and the Kings are the big corporations. He is deluded into thinking it’s the people who want to provide a safety net for the most vulnerable among us.
I really don’t get it, but it seems to be an historical phenomenon.
I read Animal Farm in jr high and the older I get the more brilliant Orwell seems to me.

mazingerz88's avatar

@Qingu I’m a little bit disappointed with you. You rarely post a question and when you did, its about Ted “Braveheart” Nugent? Lol.

He meant exactly what he said. He threatened the President and Mrs. Clinton. He was such a a coward though he didn’t explain it to the Secret Service who visited him. That he would shoot a coyote who pisses on his couch?

FutureMemory's avatar

Dude is a freakin’ nutcase. I hope one of his guns goes off ‘accidentally’ while he’s cleaning it.

Judi's avatar

@ragingloli , amen. I don’t see how they call themselves Christians and miss that.

wundayatta's avatar

I’m not sure how metaphorical it is. I mean, all words are metaphors, but can we mistake his meaning? Is he exhorting people to get out and vote, or is he exhorting people to take pot shots at the president? Frankly, I would not be surprised if he believes in his heart of hearts that Obama should he executed. I think it is an excellent thing that the secret service lets him know they are onto him. Hopefully this will send a message to the other whack jobs out there.

Obama is a symbol of a lot of things to conservative loonies. I’m sure that his race has a lot to do with it. But who knows. Maybe in this day and age, conservatives would hate a white Democrat pretty much the same.

CaptainHarley's avatar

Ted was 100% right on, IMHO. What we are witnessing right now is the destruction of the American Republic. I don’t know what is going to replace it, but the term “government slave” seems to be applicable.

Qingu's avatar

Oh @CaptainHarley, it’s always so nice when you express yourself on here. But I’m a little confused, because you didn’t really explain how you agree with Nugent—because you didn’t explain what you thought Nugent meant.

Do you agree that Obama should be shot like a coyote?

Do you agree that Obama is a “criminal” and should be executed (beheaded, what have you) along with, possibly, his supporters?

As always, clear answers would be much appreciated!

marinelife's avatar

1. He was making threats.

2. He was inciting violence.

bkcunningham's avatar

Maybe he was using metaphor like Madonna when she threatened to kick a vice presidential candidate’s ass.

GoldieAV16's avatar

I think he was making a (veiled?) threat against the President of the United States, which is protected speech (Go, First Amendment!).

I am more curious about why Mitt Romney wanted (and appears to have been seeking) the endorsement of a man who admittedly shat his pants for days before showing up to serve in the military, because he was afraid that if he served he’d gleefully go on a killing spree, including killing his fellow soldiers. And “adopted” an underage girl so he could have sex with her.

Why on earth wouldn’t Romney do everything possible to distance himself from this loon? One of his sons tweeted the joyful news that “Dad got the endorsement of Ted Nugent! How cool is that?!”

What about Charlie Manson? Wouldn’t that endorsement be pretty cool, too, by those standards?

Qingu's avatar

@bkcunningham, maybe, maybe. The metaphors are a little different, to be fair—one involves beating someone up and another involves murdering someone. But okay.

But if he was being metaphorical about being “dead or in jail,” what did he mean when he said,

“Why are you laughing? Do you think that’s funny? That’s not funny at all. I’m serious as a heart attack.”

ragingloli's avatar

@CaptainHarley
“I don’t know what is going to replace it, but the term “government slave” seems to be applicable.”
Even if that were to happen (which it will not), as a christian, you would have to accept your fate.

CaptainHarley's avatar

@ragingloli

Not so. Jesus didn’t indicate that people should stop being soldiers, only that they be satisfied with their pay.

bkcunningham's avatar

Maybe he meant he’d kill himself or riot and get put in jail.

Qingu's avatar

@bkcunningham, so, he wasn’t being metaphorical about that part. Any other parts you think he wasn’t being metaphorical about?

And how exactly do you tell the difference between the metaphorical and literal parts of his rant?

bkcunningham's avatar

I don’t know if he was being metaphorical or not. I was just throwing out possibilities. Perhaps he meant that he would kill Obama. There are endless possibilities. Has he made a statement concerning the remark after the fact? I haven’t followed his remarks to be honest.

Qingu's avatar

I don’t know if he’s made any further statements.

FutureMemory's avatar

I would take it to mean he is going to flip out and do some really crazy shit, crazy enough that he’ll be either shot in the process, or put in jail if they are able to apprehend him without killing him.

I think he meant it literally, but I also think he believes himself to be untouchable, and didn’t consider the fact that the Secret Service wouldn’t take his threats too kindly. I’m sure he was genuinely surprised they ‘called’ him on it.

“B-b-b-ut..I’m Ted Nugent! I can say whatever I want, no matter how crazy it is..because…well, I’m Ted Nugent!”

CaptainHarley's avatar

Rather like Obama saying that he wishes he could bypass Congress and “just do it myself,” yes?

MadisonPaige's avatar

Taken literally, that sounds like a threat to me. But it is probably just hyperbole, depending on the full context of his speech. It’s unlikely that a public figure like Nugent would make a real threat that he intends to carry out. But I still consider the statement highly irresponsible because the statement could provoke someone less stable to do something criminal.

And at the risk of fanning the flames of Democrat vs. Republican nuttiness, a great many people consider the Republicans the “whack jobs.”

Qingu's avatar

@CaptainHarley, no, not really. One particularly important difference is that Obama’s statement does not appear to call for anyone’s death.

By the way, you never answered my questions. Are you going to?

CaptainHarley's avatar

Only if you get someone else to ask them. : )

jca's avatar

You know what I think is interesting? If anybody else said something like that, the Secret Service would be at their door, take them away and interview them immediately. Ted Nugent gets to make an appointment for his interview. Isn’t it nice to be a celeb?

Qingu's avatar

@CaptainHarley, it’s fascinating that you’re unwilling to directly answer the question of whether you support killing the president. Maybe you’re right, and maybe the secret service should ask you these questions instead of me.

FutureMemory's avatar

http://www.secretservice.gov/

In case anyone wants to get in touch with them…

Dog's avatar

I thought Ted Nugent was already dead…

CaptainHarley's avatar

How do you know they haven’t already? :)

CaptainHarley's avatar

I don’t advocate the killing of ANYone. I had more than enough of that in the Army.

SmashTheState's avatar

This is a loose translation of what he really said: “I am a hateful, racist, spiteful thug who is medium-famous and therefore consider myself immune to the sort of jackbooted oppression that I support when my chosen party of idiot stormtroopers is in power. I can threaten a president, break the law, or eat a live, crying baby on stage in front of a crowd of millions and there’s not one fucking thing anyone can do because I am a demi-god of pop culture.”

Qingu's avatar

@CaptainHarley, so what do you think Nugent meant when he said he’d either be dead or in jail if Obama gets re-elected?

SmashTheState's avatar

It is EXTREMELY irresponsible to suggest people should be snitching on someone here to the State security apparatus. We live in a culture of political oppression, and just the accusation alone can destroy careers, ruin lives, and break up families. It is sociopathic to use a threat like this over some stupid Internet argument.

In Russia, the word “stukach” is the foulest thing a person can be called. A stukach is an informer, someone who turns in family or neighbours to the secret police, usually for vengance or personal gain. To this day, lists are quietly kept of Soviet-era stukachi; being on one of those lists is extremely unhealthy.

Don’t be a stukach.

CaptainHarley's avatar

I have no idea what was in Mr. Nugent’s mind, not being Mr. Nugent.

Qingu's avatar

So when you said you agreed with Nugent 100%, you didn’t actually have any idea what exactly you agree with?

Qingu's avatar

@SmashTheState, actually sociopathy is when you call for shooting someone. Which is why I was glad to hear Captain Harley say he would never call for shooting someone.

I had assumed he was not quite so deranged, so of course I didn’t report him. But reporting potential crimes can save lives.

I know, though. Anarchy.

CaptainHarley's avatar

@Qingu

You have this remarkable facility for missing the point of a conversation and for drawing the most assinine conclusions from insufficient data.

Response moderated (Personal Attack)
Qingu's avatar

@CaptainHarley, what do you think Nugent’s point was? Several of his statements seemed to directly call for violence. Since you eschew violence, I can only assume you do not agree with him 100% and your previous statement to that effect was in error.

tinyfaery's avatar

He is getting along in age. Dementia could describe his outbursts.

SmashTheState's avatar

What the fuck? We have someone here telling people to turn someone in to the secret fucking police and I get censored?! What the FUCKING FUCK?

bkcunningham's avatar

That wasn’t fair, @SmashTheState. I will get censored because @Qingu will most likely flag this, but you comments should have stood. They were spot-on and relevant to the back and forth that is still posted.

Qingu's avatar

For the record, I never flag anything, Ms. Paranoid

augustlan's avatar

[mod says] It was a clear personal attack, and we removed it for that reason.

* Feel free to repost without the personal attacks.

SmashTheState's avatar

But telling people to REPORT A FLUTHER USER TO THE SECRET POLICE isn’t a personal attack by any means. Right. This is completely fucked.

Qingu's avatar

Completely fucked! It’s like friggin’ Anne Frank in here.

CaptainHarley's avatar

This is so frakking ridiculous that it would be laughable, if it wasn’t so sad.

bkcunningham's avatar

It was a free for here for a minute, but it looks like the mods put a stranglehold on the entire wang dang conversation. Oh, well, it is a dog eat dog world.

FutureMemory's avatar

I’m just waiting for some to make a [redacted] joke.

Dog's avatar

[Mod Says]
(I can see the removed comment- it was a blatant personal attack without question.)

Surely we are better than this. Come on- I KNOW we are better than this!

Keep in mind folks that, if you have nothing beneficial to add to a discussion, you can always move on to the next question. Lets disagree without being disagreeable, okay?

filmfann's avatar

(Announcement): Ted Nugent… Ted Nugent to the FBI Watch List…

Brian1946's avatar

I think he meant that he’s full of self-deluded false bravado.

I love Skank Ogre, or however you pronounce his name. ;-p

FutureMemory's avatar

Every Ted Nugent fan should be forced to watch that clip, @Brian1946. Thank you for posting that. Brilliant :)

Judi's avatar

You know, my son was sent to juvenile hall for 2 weeks for saying “I hate you I hate you I want to kill you” to a school principal. He was 11.
It’s a felony to threaten a public official.

FutureMemory's avatar

That’s insane, @Judi! A child goes to jail for two weeks for saying something dumb…that principal should be ashamed of himself. When I was in school that might have gotten a kid a week’s detention…damn.

Republicans, help me out: can I blame Obama for that?

ragingloli's avatar

@FutureMemory
Of course you can. You can blame everything on Obama.

Judi's avatar

It was right after columbine, but ya, it sucked.

FutureMemory's avatar

@ragingloli Thought so, was just double checking. Thanks!

SmashTheState's avatar

Oh, no. We couldn’t find /users/CaptainHarley/.

Congratulations, liberals, you’ve succeeded in chilling all contradictory discussion through the threat of ruining the life of anyone who disagrees with you by turning them in to the secret police. You can now give each other hand-jobs without the slightest risk of ever having to deal with an opinion different from your own.

Response moderated (Personal Attack)
wilma's avatar

A sad day…

bkcunningham's avatar

The saddest part to me is that many won’t bother to question why or even make an honest attempt to understand.

wilma's avatar

It’s getting harder for those who don’t march in lock-step with the majority here, to feel that it’s even worth the bother of answering a question or giving an opinion.

FutureMemory's avatar

Honestly @bkcunningham, I thought @ragingloli summed it up perfectly: I think it is more likely that he deleted his own account out of frustration from constantly having his views challenged by reason, logic and facts.

Jeruba's avatar

I’m sorry he’s gone.

Ron_C's avatar

Who cares what Ted Nugent means? He is a truly creepy person and I wouldn’t admit to knowing him let alone asking for his endorsement.

Nugent has not only aged I think he is getting ugly; his appearance is reflecting his soul.

mazingerz88's avatar

@CaptainHarley is just temporarily offended. The implication that he feared for something on the other board is just ridiculous and an exaggeration. He is probably on a beer run. @CaptainHarley will be back or he is not @CaptainHarley. Can we just get real here, people-? Jesus H. fucking Christ.

filmfann's avatar

@mazingerz88 It’s either Jesus fucking Christ or Jesus H. Christ.
Saying Jesus H. Fucking Christ is like saying Cheese Hamburger. It’s either a hamburger or a cheeseburger, even if it’s a mushroom swiss cheeseburger.

As to the disappearence of @CaptainHarley , I do worry about this site only presenting one point of view, and I prefer to hear from everyone. I rarely agree with some people on this site, but their input is almost always appreciated. Just don’t say cheese hamburger.

Jeruba's avatar

Or “fiction novel.”

ragingloli's avatar

or “perfect German”

wilma's avatar

@filmfann “I do worry about this site only presenting one point of view, and I prefer to hear from everyone. I rarely agree with some people on this site, but their input is almost always appreciated.”
Exactly. If this is just a liberal site for left leaning folks to agree with each other and not hear another point of view or have any kind of civilized debate, then why doesn’t it state that in the What is Fluther welcome message?

augustlan's avatar

I am sorry the Captain has departed. We hardly ever agreed, but that’s what makes life interesting!

Qingu's avatar

Was Captain Harley banned? If he wasn’t and just left in a hissy fit or something, you guys can probably stop complaining about the liberal gestapo silencing opposing views.

Frankly, I get pretty sick and tired of conservatives who mistake criticism for censorship. I also have a theory that this is projection on their part.

bkcunningham's avatar

The censorship was a remark made by @SmashTheState when he ripped you a new asshole and his remarks got deleted.

Qingu's avatar

I saw his remark. Although I admit that I must have missed the sensation of my asshole being ripped open. :)

bkcunningham's avatar

You’ll realize it when you start to put your hat on and you notice there’s a new opening. ;)

Paradox25's avatar

As one of the more conservative members on here I can’t say that I’ve ever been a big fan of Nugent, or his music<—(I know, irrelevant). It sounds like he is playing the old Republicans are patriots while Democrats aren’t card again. He has a right to state his opinions, but he went too far with this one.

Response moderated (Flame-Bait)
GoldieAV16's avatar

“It sounds like he is playing the old Republicans are patriots while Democrats aren’t card again.”

Actually, I think he’s just playing the I am shilling card.

tom_g's avatar

Wow, there’s no shortage of severe paranoia in the air here. The problem with trying interpret crazy is that you are stepping into the discussion with a whole set of assumptions and premises and then trying to apply these to someone who may believe that up is down and down is up.

@Qingu‘s original question is a good one. It does parallel bible interpretation discussions because you can flip a coin and call one passage metaphor, and flip a coin again and say that the next passage is literal. It’s been clear for many years that Nugent is far from someone you’d want to listen to for moral guidance or a grounding in reality. And I could read his statements as metaphor if I really struggle. The problem with this type of ideologically-based violent talk is that it comes from a culture of such ignorance and violence-fetish, that it would only make sense to assume that much of what he is saying goes beyond metaphor.

So, then we had an old member of fluther come in and say that “Ted was 100% right on.”, and carry on with similar ideological speech. I don’t find it unreasonable to assume that the fluther user in question was either exaggerating about how much he supports Ted or is in 100% agreement, but has interpreted Ted’s comments to be mere metaphor. I don’t think it matters, however. The link to the secret service was way over the line in my opinion. What line is that? The line that says “Over here is fluther. It’s some ridiculous online ‘community’ where people can discuss stuff. They can be brutally honest and it’s about discussion.” (yep, I know I just made up that line, but I stand by it).

If there were people here who caught the paranoia bug (c’mon people. Chill the f*ck out), don’t you think they could do all of their report-their-neighbors things without the help of posting links to the secret service?

GoldieAV16's avatar

You can do all the hate speak you like in the USA. Unless you’re a Muslim, of course. They are held to a different standard.

Qingu's avatar

Was anyone seriously gonna report Captain Harley to the SS though? I mean I joked about it, mostly as a means to try to prod CH to actually reject the violent implications of Nugent’s speech that he supposedly 100% agreed on. Then someone poasted the link to the SS website, but I’m assuming that was a joke as well. Maybe that went a little too far. Did anyone really think CH was, in his heart of hearts, advocating violence? I didn’t.

Jeruba's avatar

What I thought was that he declined to tell us what he felt in his heart of hearts. Whether he actually felt threatened, I have no idea, but I know that I too would balk if I thought that someone was trying to press me to expose more than I chose to.

A person who takes a stand should be prepared to back it up, true; but a lot of opinions get flung around here without thorough documentation of evidence. This is not a court of law. I think it was fair to ask, but only to a point. Basic courtesy in a social setting says you back off when someone manifests unwillingness to speak.

Any discussion or debate that calls for mind-reading—as this one does, right from the original question—has to allow for a very broad margin of error.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Nobody is reporting anybody!!! Move on.

josie's avatar

He’s a burn out. All sorts of people say weird political shit, including on this site. If people took most of this seriously, half of the people who show up on TV would be arrested. It is not as if Ted (or Joy Behar, or Bill Maher, or Rush Limbaugh etc) is anything but a media clown. It’s an act. I’ve seen better, I’ve seen worse.

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