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DigitalBlue's avatar

Why is it more common for jellies to make fun of new users for their spelling/grammar/question content, than to direct them to the guidelines?

Asked by DigitalBlue (6658 points ) August 4th, 2012

Do you think that is best? Do you think that it’s okay?

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

79 Answers

zensky's avatar

It’s funner.

filmfann's avatar

It is funnier, and it makes a point. I bet you read this question twice to catch any spelling errors before you posted it.

DigitalBlue's avatar

Weird. I don’t find it “funny” to make fun of people that I don’t even know, especially if they haven’t even had the chance to learn that Fluther has some rules that don’t apply to the vast majority of the internet.
Sorry to hear that.

TexasDude's avatar

Because a lot of jellies like feeling superior to others. I’m guilty of doing it, and so are many other veterans of the site. This is pretty common on any internet forum though. God help you if you use the wrong form of “your” on Reddit.

DigitalBlue's avatar

@Fiddle_Playing_Creole_Bastard Reddit will make fun of you for… anything. I don’t know that it makes it common all over internet forums, though.

SavoirFaire's avatar

Fluther is a community that values being snappy and clever over being helpful and thorough. A bon mot will outperform a thoughtful answer almost every time. Being snappy and clever all the time is difficult, though, and derision often makes for a quick and easy substitute to genuine wit. Thus we end up with a community in which snarkiness is the default mode of communication.

TexasDude's avatar

@DigitalBlue, in my internet-traveling experience, it is pretty common. Someone will write out a long, otherwise well-written response to something or a statement and use the wrong “your” or made a spelling error or some other common mistake and people will start clamoring over themselves to see who can post a correction first, usually denoted with a little asterisk. Then a gigantic circlejerk erupts where everyone forgets about whatever was being discussed in lieu of proving who has the best spelling and grammar. Since Fluther has strict rules about grammar and spelling, this particular reaction is pretty common here. Also, @SavoirFaire nailed it.

zenvelo's avatar

When I first started on Fluther I tended to not capitalize when I should have, and the community didn’t jump on me, but I was modded a few times and told why. So since people were patient with me, I don’t criticize for similar offenses.

What makes me a little crazy is when someone writes an unintelligible question and then treats people like shit for asking them what they are asking. That’s like declaring open season on yourself.

zensky's avatar

Oops, I should’ve said more fun~

Pied_Pfeffer's avatar

Yes, there are guidelines on Fluther. There is also a system in place to address the spelling/grammar/questions that don’t meet standards. It’s called “Flagging”. Let the moderators handle it in private, or if it bothers members that much, take it up in a PM. There is no reason that it needs to be publicly pointed out. It detracts from the thread’s train-of thought and rhythm.

Let’s face it. Most new users find Fluther based upon a web search for information. Going through a tutorial is not required before joining. Finding the guidelines is not in-the-face nor required. Some new members use English as a second language. Those that are aren’t always well educated. Or maybe they are used to text language. Or maybe they just make a typo. The list goes on.

Why not give them a break, especially the new members? Flag it if you feel the need, but please…no public flogging for this. A person is more likely to learn and change their habits by having someone treat them with respect than through public ridicule.

Mariah's avatar

It’s not exactly very welcoming. Minor grammar errors just shouldn’t be that big of a deal.

zensky's avatar

Of course @Mariah is correct – we should try a bit more restraint and not scare off newbies. Note to self.

ucme's avatar

Oh i’m not prejudiced, I make fun of any bugger, old or new, so long as they’re more or less asking for the piss to be ripped out of them, then I feel it’s my duty to do so XD

josie's avatar

To start conditioning them for the withering condescension and political correctness that is coming their way if they stay on the site

marinelife's avatar

I hate to think that you are right, but you probably are.

cookieman's avatar

@Pied_Pfeffer: Said it best. Teasing new users for anything, particularly grammar and spelling is bad form. I don’t do it and hope other “veteran” jellies wouldn’t either. It’s childish.

That being said, I am all for teasing established jellies.

example
@josie: Careful, your passive-aggressive 13-year-old girl side is showing. ~

remember kids, don’t forget the ~.

Coloma's avatar

I have never made fun of, or humiliated anyone over their grammar/spelling skills, or lack of. I find it arrogant and unkind, period. There are so many possibilities for poor grammar and spelling, and to automatically ass-ume the person is somehow “less than” due to lack of perfect articulation smacks of superiority.
I understand and agree with writing standards but to shame and embarrass someone is not acceptable as far as I am concerned.

cookieman's avatar

example 2
@Coloma: You are so right. It’s amazing that a hippy-chick living in the sticks, surrounded by water foul can be so insightful. ~

How long before someone kills me I wonder?

Coloma's avatar

@cprevite LOL..well, I will take that as a complement, I think. :-P

P.S. It’s fowl not *foul *....instant karma! haha

cookieman's avatar

@Coloma: Ha! See, I’m a schmuck. And I only think of compliments when I think of you my dear. :^)

Coloma's avatar

@cprevite Haha..Uh oh…now I am recognizing the “touche” in our dueling “complements/compliments”...shit, I always screw up that one! ;-p
Where’s @gailcalled when we need her most? lol

gailcalled's avatar

I am here, but too busy brooding over Megan Fox’s nose to worry about mere trivia.

cookieman's avatar

Certainly better than deer trivia.

Symbeline's avatar

I think all the important stuff has been said, and I highly underline the idea that we should be kinder and more welcoming to newbies. Certainly doesn’t cost anything to be nice and helpful, and it isn’t hard. I’ve made fun of new jellies, but I make fun of old ones too, and I’ve never judged the entirety of a human being based on their spelling.

That said, I want @ucme to make fun of me.

Lightlyseared's avatar

Because we’re asses.

Incoherency_'s avatar

I love to make fun of newbies whom make grammatical errors and spelling misteaks because their in dire need of correction! ;~p

Coloma's avatar

^ You mean like mistaking “they’re” for “their”? lol

ucme's avatar

@Symbeline Well, seeing as though you asked for it, Michael Myers would never hack your head off if he ever met you, because he’d probably be more shit scared of you & your badass, bitchin ways than you were of him.
Shit, that sounded like it might have been more of a compliment than a piss take, still…...never mind.

augustlan's avatar

I really wish people wouldn’t do it. It is not only more effective to flag it and let the mods handle it, it is much kinder, too.

Incoherency_'s avatar

@Coloma

You mean like mistaking “they’re” for “their”?

Not only that, but also “whom” for “who” and “misteaks” for “mistakes”. ;-)

ninjacolin's avatar

@DigitalBlue, it’s a little known fact that if you can handle your own battles without having to defer to authorities, you’re generally considered more respectable than those who cry to mommy and daddy when times get tough.

Coloma's avatar

@Incoherency_ Haha..I think my razzing went right over your head. Read your OP again. ;-)

augustlan's avatar

@Coloma Actually, I think @Incoherency_‘s sarcasm went right over yours. :p

wundayatta's avatar

I don’t make fun of people for mispellings or bad grammar. I try to understand what they are saying. I do, however, make fun of people for saying stupid things, occasionally.

This place has what could be called a hang-up on spelling and grammar. On the one hand, it is good to have these rules, because it does make it easier to understand people. On the other, it gives people an official excuse to make fun of others in a sanctioned way.

Although I haven’t really notice people making a lot of fun on the basis of bad grammar. It seems like most people this bothers will flag a post or question instead of making fun of it. But it takes a while for people to get used to the rules here. SOme of the rules are pretty randomly enforced, I suppose because it’s hard for the mods to keep track of everything.

ninjacolin's avatar

^ the guy in red can still win.

Adirondackwannabe's avatar

I make so many typos I’m not going to make fun of anyone. I can’t proofread my own work for crap.

Coloma's avatar

I think “proof read” is two words.
Sounds like a name when you say it really fast…..Proofreada.
Hi I am Proofreada. lol

Adirondackwannabe's avatar

@Coloma Smartass. Proof read that. :)

Adirondackwannabe's avatar

@Brian1946 Thanks. Coloma pfffft.

woodcutter's avatar

What kind of dick does that?

Coloma's avatar

@Adirondackwannabe Hahahaha…well, mea proofreada!

woodcutter's avatar

New people who happen upon this site and decide to join are doing the collective a favor . A few here may not see it that way.

DaphneT's avatar

@cprevite what is the ~ for?

Coloma's avatar

@DaphneT The tilde signifies humor/sarcasm. :-)

cookieman's avatar

Yup, as the lovely goose-lady said, the tilde indicates sarcasm. This thing here: ~

DominicX's avatar

Because it’s really easy to mock someone’s grammatical error and it makes you feel smart that you have more knowledge than they do as a result (seemingly, at least). Although I don’t find it too impressive myself, but maybe that’s because I’m a student of linguistics and I know so much more about grammar than the average person who corrects someone else’s petty grammatical error online :)

Symbeline's avatar

@ucme Aye, you’re quite the charmer, yeah. :D

woodcutter's avatar

There are bound to be different dialects from the same country that are reflected in the text. Why would a person type in a way different than they usually speak? Showing any kind of disdain of differing dialect of a language is definitely being intolerant. Not sure how else you could characterize that behavior.

Adirondackwannabe's avatar

@DigitalBlue Maybe for smoking, ahem.

ucme's avatar

@Symbeline It’s a gift I Know ;¬}

DaphneT's avatar

@cprevite @Coloma how did that come about? Is that a documented form of ‘text speak’?

cookieman's avatar

@DaphneT: If memory serves, I believe we, as a much smaller group then, agreed to it here on Fluther around 2008. We were discussing the difficulty in recognizing sarcasm in the written word.

It probably originated somewhere else on the Internet, but that was my first exposure to it.

SavoirFaire's avatar

The tilde convention seems to have solidified here, though it does not seem to have been first invented there. The timeline created by @Nimis also points to this thread from about a week later where the tilde convention was discussed again.

Coloma's avatar

Well gosh durn et awl, ewe fokes bee sum of the mowst teeenayshus litterairy tipes evur.

gailcalled's avatar

The conventions for writing English clearly are not there out of capriciousness. They are designed to make one understood.

1) To stop and ask oneself, “What is this person talking about?” or to read the question two or three or tour times in order to make sense of it is annoying, distracting and ultimately too time-consuming.

2) The nitpicking might be considered as useful info for next time. Writing is a skill different from speaking; why not welcome some reasonable editing? Spell-check is now a monster on the rampage so a re-read is in order before pushing “send.” Is that so hard?

3) I will often skip a question that might interest me had it not been so garbled. There are many flutterers who write so well and with such lucidity that I read their comments even though I might not be interested in the subject matter.

4) And conversely, there are some who answer in such uncertain and waffling ways ( and with vague suppositions based on conjecture rather than fact) that I skip them out of principle.

5) It would be the best of all possible worlds if everyone did read the guidelines, of course.

5) And I vow from now on to flag or PM Auggie. (The devil may make me change my mind, but that will be his fault and not mine.)

6) Milo here; PM me for private tutoring or editing.

gailcalled's avatar

edit; Speaking of spell-check; in 1) it is three or four times.

zensky's avatar

Spelchek is a west of time as far as im concernd.

gailcalled's avatar

East for you to say.

Symbeline's avatar

You should all north better than to south around.

WillWorkForChocolate's avatar

@Symbeline The futterwacken, you say!

Paradox25's avatar

Some of the bullies on here are much worse than many of the short lived ‘trolls’ on here. There is no reason to make fun of people, but it is what it is.

Coloma's avatar

My daughter has an ex room mate, sweet girl, but not the sharpest knife in the drawer when it comes to her command of the language. She says the funniest things, like the time she was on a diet for a bikini contest and said she needed to get some ” Albuquerque” tuna for her meal plans. lolololol One of the best ever!

gailcalled's avatar

^^^ I still remember having to give an oral report in a jr. hs civics class. I started by saying that the event I was discussing took place in Tuxon, Az. I was a sensitive flower in those days and cringed for weeks.

downtide's avatar

@gailcalled It would be better to flag rather than PM Auggie or any other individual mod. If it’s flagged we all get notified so whoever logs on first can deal with it. Flagging is an easy and quick way to get the attention of all the mods.

Blackberry's avatar

Regardless of fluther, it’s still the internet. You’re asking various individuals, all with their own motives and reasons for being on the internet, to act according one set of morals.

DigitalBlue's avatar

@Blackberry isn’t that what most communities do?

Blackberry's avatar

@DigitalBlue Yes, but nothing is ever black and white. If being flippant to someone on the internet, this bastion of anonymity, is morally or legally wrong, please provide sources.

gailcalled's avatar

@downtide: Right you are. I do tend to flag for the most part. It is the occasional least part that makes me lose it.

wilma's avatar

@Blackberry , if I may answer your “If being flippant to someone on the internet, this bastion of anonymity, is morally or legally wrong, please provide sources.”
I don’t think anyone is saying that it’s legally wrong and perhaps not even morally wrong, but why be flippant and maybe hurtful to someone? Why not just be helpful and nice? At least until the new person gets used to the place.
Later, if they turn out to be a jerk, then go ahead and be flippant.

woodcutter's avatar

For some it’s just a territorial thing. I mean how many of the bossies really ,really ,care if they are helping someone new? They may try to sell it as their motivation but it’s pretty transparent they are not.

rooeytoo's avatar

I think @josie nailed it! Be afraid, be very afraid!!!

zensky's avatar

@Blackberry Regardless of fluther, it’s still the internet. You’re asking various individuals, all with their own motives and reasons for being on the internet, to act according one set of morals

Uh, yeah. Exactly. Fluther. What makes it great and unsucky like Yahoo answers, answrbag, answercrap, and wis.dm (RIP).

Blackberry's avatar

I agree with being nice, but questions like these are simply asking, “Why are people rude?”

There’s a million answers to that question.

woodcutter's avatar

It’s not just “why are people rude” The question that applies here really, is to bring attention to a certain “cadre” here that is known for perpetrating this behavior. They know who they are.

Blackberry's avatar

@woodcutter I would hope I’m not one of those people. I’m aware I’ve done this before, but that’s not my main contribution to the website, lol.

woodcutter's avatar

@Blackberry I can’t really recall if you’ve gone after anyone much , more like you’ve been the recipient a few times but I will admit, I don’t see everything that goes on here ,just a little here and there, enough to detect patterns.

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