What will it take to return the GOP to being a conservative party?

I will be following this Q I just had a conversation, leaning towards argument, with a facebook friend about how “Christians are a minority and under attack in America” in his words. I think this feeling among them means the party will stay with the religious right wing theme for a while. I hope I am wrong. I don’t mean all Christians feel this way, I am only saying there is a percentage of them who do feel this way and they a hanging on tight. I believe it causes them to round up the forces, have loud voices, and be in a fighting mode. Little apathy among them, so their numbers show up to voice their opinions and vote.

It will take them getting demolished in several elections and the moderates in the party finally having enough. In all honesty it could outright fracture the party into a super conservative party, and a more moderate party…. and honestly I like that idea cuz I think the moderate party would draw some democrats off too, and we’d be better off with 3 parties than we are with 2.

My only concern is that you have news agencies such as Fox, which will tow the Republican line no matter how crazy it gets, and have the power to warp peoples minds on what they think is normal.

A split in the party.

Both parties have been invaded and changed by extremely polarizing entities. There seems to be little “wiggle room” anymore. I like the answer presented here

@majorrich I vehemently disagree that the Democratic party has become polarized. They’re pushing the same things today (single-payer health insurance, higher taxes on the rich, etc) that they’ve pushed for literally the last 100 years. FDR’s campaign platforms wouldn’t be all that alien from Obama’s.

Meanwhile the Republican party has people like Michelle Bachmann suggesting we investigate the patriotism of congressmen, Paul Ryan is suggesting the privatization of virtually every government agency, etc, etc….

When I look at JFK’s views and policies, I see what I believe the Republican party is trying to achieve today. He was in favor of tax reductions to stimulate the economy, had fairly conservative stances on a lot of issues. He would probably run as a Republican. Would you not agree that the Labor movement and the ACLU pull the on the Democrats as the Tea party and Pro-life movements pull on Republicans? The parties aren’t as civil as our parents parties and I stand by my assertion that the growth away from center wasn’t one sided.

Believe it or not. The Democratic party was Pro-Slavery in the 1800’s! They stood for States rights and for the most part either by action or inaction were part of the cessation of the States of the Confederacy over states rights. They’ve come a long way baby!

@majorrich That’s because the parties underwent a dramatic shift in ideology in the early 1900’s, when the Republicans became very pro-rich pro-business, and the Democrats became the party of the people.

And Kennedy didn’t have a conservative stance on a lot of issues… he was one of the leading advocates of the civil rights movements, created the peace core, pushed a government agency with excess funding to put a man on the moon, advocated mental health issues, womens rights to equal pay, etc, etc, etc…. all very not-conservative ideas. Not to mention he was in approval of very unpopular-to-conservative ideas such as Social Security. http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/Kennedy_Domestic_Policy

About the only thing he did that would be championed by conservatives is cut taxes.

Get rid of corporate donors and religious zealots.

Who ever said racial equality, the NASA program (which O’Bama is gutting and turning into a social entity) Health, etc aren’t just plain issues. They are important to everyone. What you are trying to say is that the Democratic and Whig parties were very pro-agricultural and the Republican party was anti-slavery and pro industrial at the turn of the century. The Whig party split off and died. Lyndon Johnson and the Democratically controlled congress began raiding the FICA trust fund for the general Budget. Al Gore cast the deciding vote to tax Social Security annuity payments. (Taxing money derived from a tax) and Jimmy Carter began giving full social security benefits to people who had never paid into the system. Ergo the liquidity problems forecast for the Social Security System. So when you spout off about racial equality, remember the Democratic party was the champion of slavery until and after the civil war. The Ku-Klux-Klan had strong ties to the Democratic party. The Kennedy Family made their fortune running bootleg liquor. There is plenty of stuff to throw around.
What I want is a government that will leave me alone, trust that I will make decisions for myself, and not tax me twice to give money to people who have never worked a day in their live, for several generations.

As it turns out Nixon opened up Social Benefits to immigrants and indigents, My bad.

@majorrich As far as I know illegal immigrants don’t get access to social benefits.

You are right, I think it comes from SSI or some such entity. Separately funded. I really dislike discussing politics. So many feelings and issues and somesuch.

The Republicans need to encourage the Tea Baggers to split from the party, then regroup with the Libertarians. That would be a workable and desirable solution.

I would guess that the leaders need to disappear, die of old age or just move to another country. They need to dump the Christian Right and the NRA and get back to the party of Lincoln. Until then they’re just a power mad, angry group of separatists, just like their confederate cousins. I vote that we let them leave the Union.

The radical elements are too fanatical to really be dealt with or removed from the party, so either the Moderate Conservatives leave and form their own party, or we start trying some of them for treason. I don’t see anything less drastic than that working.

@jerv Treason trials set a nasty precedent, though. You sure that you want to permit the State to lock up dissenting opinion?

@Ron_C The values of the Religious Right and the NRA are only so pronounced as they are now because they’ve been turned up; you could assume certain things, including faith and firearm ownership, among most people in the 19th century. They’ve mostly settled into those very factions that you want rid of; nothing less than integration will let you reclaim Lincoln-ness.

@Nullo Dissenting opinion? No. In fact, I welcome dissenting opinions. However, I draw the line at actual action that is harmful to our Republic, it’s citizens, or the Constitution. I’ve seen a few start to stick their toe over that line, and I want to nip the problem in the bud decisively.

@JLeslie Yes, the poor, set upon minority that’s Christian. They are only 76% of the population. I think the problem is they aren’t very honest. They are really talking not about self-identified Christians but those belong to the sect they are in and espousing exactly the same ideas they hold. Anyone else is suspect. That’s why they “think” they are a minority.

@tedd & @rojo A split could definitely happen, and I think it would be good for our nation.

@majorrich That link is actually partisan BS. The South was solidly Democratic for 100 years. That held up till the 1960s when Democratic President Johnson ordered Federal Troops into Selma Alabama to enforce the Civil Rights Act. When that happened, the Republican party set in place a Southern Strategy to use racism and dog-whistle politics to absorb the Dixiecrats (southern KKK and racist Democrats) into the Republican Party. The Religious Right and Neocons are more droppings that the Republican party gobbled up from the anus of the Democratic Donkey. It’s true that the detritus of the Democratic Party is what made Republicans what they are today. It is an outrageous lie that the two parties are the same. That’s another GOP Big Lie to deflect away from the reality of what they have become. And it sounds so fair-minded. What a beautiful great Big Lie.

@”:http://www.fluther.com/149837/what-will-it-take-to-return-the-gop-to-being-a/#quip2551196 You are absolutely right for all the reasons above.

@majorrich Believe it or not, this is not the 1800s. The racism issue has flip-flopped. Southern Democrats were pro Jim Crow in the 1950s. This is not the 1950s. There is no Dixiecrat South today. There hasn’t been to 60 years. Republicans are the racist party of today. It is true that both parties have constituencies influencing then. But that was not the question, and you as a partisan are trying to derail the question and substitute side issues that are of no consequence to the OP. It’s in the social section, so you’re welcome to try that diversion. But we are also free to call you on it.

As far as Kennedy and taxes, he proposed a reduction of the top marginal rate from 90% to 70%. And mind you, the US economy was going great guns back then and we were making plenty of new millionaires as well as investing in the necessary research and infrastructure to keep the country growing.

Romney and Ryan are proposing 28% as a top rate, and they want to eliminate the capital gains tax so Romney, on income of $21 Million last year, would pay an effective rate of 0.82%. Sorry. Real nice try. But that was NOT what Kennedy proposed.

@tedd Thank you again for a return to truth.

@tinyfaery I wish I knew a legal way to do that. :-)

@majorrich No, what we are trying to say is we are talking here about right now. This question has nothing to do with politics as it was practiced 50 or 60 years ago. And I have to conclude you don’t want to discuss the actual subject, so you keep veering back into history and vilifying positions nobody but your own party today holds.

@Dutchess_III Despite Joe Wilson, you are right.

@filmfann That would be outstanding. But the Tea Party controls the Republican Party now. And the refuges like George Will and Charlie Christ are no match for Ron Paul’s version of libertarianism.

@Ron_C Who is left in the Republican ranks that could get back to the party of Lincoln. The RINOs have all been banished to outer Slobovia.

@jerv Treason trials work for me.’

@Nullo This isn’t just dissenting opinion. On the very day Barack Obama was being inaugurated, top Republican operatives led bu Newt Gingrich held a meeting. They decided the strategy to get back in power was to oppose and roadblock with filibusters and parliamentary procedures every single thing Obama tried to do, even when he tried to enact policies they had developed. We were losing nearly a million jobs a month at that time and the world financial system hung on the edge of an abyss. For political power, the GOP leaders were perfectly willing to put another 10 million Americans out of work and plunge us into a second Great Depression. They just planned to falsely blame Obama for it. That’s seem like treason to me.

@ETpro The original question was what would it take to return the Republican party back to a conservative party. My first post hints but I did not say that is probably not possible, nor is it possible for the Democratic party to return to it’s roots. There are too many absolutists standing in the way. The American experiment has failed because of people who can’t or won’t learn from history and spout about telling people anything that isn’t from the red book is a lie. King Roosevelt destroyed the american experiment so all that is left is for the proletariat, clinging to their guns and bibles to rise up and turn America into a third world country like everyone else.
Equality isn’t then from your point of view bringing others up, rather it is bringing us down. I say Screw that, let’s call all our loans due, stop helping others, they don’t appreciate it, and lie up and shoot anyone who protests. Let’s experiment with fascism, Communism doesn’t work, You don’t want Democracy to work. Lets just kill anybody that doesn’t agree with whatever or whoever fights their way to rule. Would that make you happy?
Anarchy is better than no government at all. =p

@ETpro I think it is also they are thinking about like how women are considered minorities even thought they are 50% of the population. These Christians are feeling opressed. But, I am also convinced they feel there are much much bigger statistical numbers of other religions than there are. Muslims and Jews combined are less than 5% of the population in America, but I bet they think it is much higher. The guy I am talking to on facebook is freaked about one street through town that has a few mosques on it, yet there is a Christian church on almost every corner all around Memphis. If it were reversed, it there were as many synogues and mosques as there are chruches, and then only as many churches as there are synogues and mosques, well, I just wanted him to take a minute to think about it, to think about what laws he would want in our ciuntry to protect his right to practice his religion, how seoarate he would want the government to be from religion, and he can’t do it. I have never met one of those type of Christians who can. They will not think about it.

@ETpro I agree that there is no longer a moral center for the republican party so they are not likely to return to Lincoln’s values. Please don’t think that I am pro-Lincoln. He was anti-slavery when it suited him, he sacrificed 50 thousand American lives to bring about a strong Federal government. A government that is now in the process of canceling most of the Bill of Rights. Frankly, I think Lincoln was a traitor and the first fascist American President.

Uh.. no.. never mind. no comment here. Try living in a country that doesn’t have a bill of rights Ron. If ever there was a traitor, it was Roosevelt. I’m outta this.

@ETpro I am going to tell you something very scary, so take whatever precautions you think are necessary.

I care more about the moral direction of the country than I do about who is in Washington. I believe that if the first one is alright, the rest will be sorted out.
The DNC just deliberately kicked God out, confirming what a lot of people have long suspected about the Democratic Party. There is no way that I want them in power now. You already know my opinion of the Republicans, so you may save your breath.

@Nullo The DNC just deliberately kicked God out in exactly the same manner as the RNC just deliberately kicked the military out. Still think the DNC is anti-God?

@Nullo I cannot express how pissed off I am that the DNC cowtowed to the religious mob and reinserted that crap about god and israel. Hell, I would have voted for that SOB just because they had the balls to do so had they stuck to their guns. Oh well, the ball is still in the air now.

@glacial Yes.
@rojo You won’t get any sympathy from me.

Did not cross my mind that I would.

Those who think the DNC is anti-God need to move from a Democracy to a Theocracy. Running a nation according to morals and religion works well for Iran. However, those of us who believe in the Constitution take a more secular viewpoint; one that allows for the freedoms granted under the First Amendment.

@rojo Anyhow, isn’t democracy all about the mob? You should be happy that the will of the people is being heard.

@jerv I give you @rojo, and all of the loudmouths in attendance.
For quite some time now, our religious views as a nation have not been in conflict with the law. Parallel. Complementary, even. There’s a big difference between legislating in harmony with religion and legislation as religion.

@Nullo I will ignore that dig (for now) and say that you are not entirely correct.

Which God has been kicked out anyways? See, we are not a 120% Christian nation; while those who claim to be Christian (often because they don’t know anything about any other religions but are ashamed to admit that they are non-believers) are the largest group, there are enough Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Taoists, Wiccans, and such that our choices are to either accommodate or put a large number of people into second-class citizen status.

There are certain things we can do that are in harmony with all of those religions. For instance, criminalizing murder, rape, and theft. Back in the day, that is how things were. So you are correct there. What you miss is the entire 21st-century.

Over the last few years, the GOP has sought to force Christian morals on all of us, and have gotten more forceful about it. The Dems have pushed back, not because they are anti-God, but because they support more than one God. And if you oppose what the Dems are doing as anti-God then you will have no problems if I force my morality on you; you seem to oppose any and all that would prevent me from doing so, so I can only assume that you want me to. Either that, or you really do want a church-state and seek to deprive others of the rights to have moralities other than yours, which makes you dangerous to society.

One last possibility is that you actually have other reasons to hate Dems and thus use morality as a red herring. Regardless, there is a big difference between Religion in harmony with government and religion as government.

I think that this question drifted a little. It was supposed to question whether the G.O.P. will go back to being a conservative party instead of the reactionary, disciplinarian, royalists they have become. Like I said before, when Eisenhower was president I was a Republican, when Reagan ran for president I switched to the democrats and mostly voted Libertarian. Now I don’t know what to do. Obama continued Bush’s foreign policy, gave himself to right to order executions, and seems willing to compromise on things that will hurt the middle class, unions, and the poor.

As for adding or subtracting god from the RNC and DNC platforms, that’s just a non sequitur. It is unconstitutional to promote or condemn any religion. Adding religion to a platform or law automatically cancel’s the candidates qualification for president because the presidential oath is to uphold and defend the constitution. What that has to do with this question is a mystery to me.

As I mentioned earlier, the only way it will happen is if there is a split between those moderates willing to work for the good of the country even if it means compromise and the radical right wing. Then, you have to wonder, who will get to keep the tag “Republican”?

And a split will only occur if they get their butts whupped big time over several election cycles. Then we will have both sides in the party saying I told you so.

@Ron_C That second paragraph of yours spotlights one of the things that needs to happen in order to bring the GOP back to it’s former self. We need them to get back to their oaths of office instead of using their political power to further their religion.

Some actual fiscal responsibility would help too; they have developed some dangerously erroneous ideas about economics.

@jerv you’re right and @rojo has a point too. Where are the candidates that care more about the country than their party? Romney certainly isn’t representative of the Republicans that I know. They want congress to compromise, they don’t care that the president is part black

Everyone will have to die so we can start from scratch. <looks for shovel>

Even US @WillWorkForChocolate? Looks for storm shelter.

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