General Question

flo's avatar

Is it ignorance on Escobar's part that led to him wearing that eyeblack?

Asked by flo (7538 points ) September 19th, 2012

Here
1)What if he said “I was intentionally being offensive, I’m in America after all I’m practicing freedom of speech”?

2)
-He said that he had no idea it was offensive.
-He said he didn’t think the gay community was going to misinterpret it.
He said “It is a word without meaning.”
Do you buy the explanation?

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21 Answers

flo's avatar

“Another article here
Another question: Is 3 days suspension adequate?

wundayatta's avatar

Nope. He knew what he was doing. Every day he has a message and it’s usually benign. Then one day he writes “tu ere maricon” (apparently it was slightly mispelled and this is fixed). This was a mistake? “You are a faggot.” Nope. That’s deliberate. He’s a Spanish speaker. No way he can not know what it means. And why write it after all this time of writing innocuous things?

It was a message for someone specific, I think. I can think of no other reasonable explanation. It was a message. And it was inappropriate and rude and not a message the MLB wanted people seeing. He lost 3 games worth of pay. But there is more to this story. I wonder when it will come out.

flo's avatar

@wundayatta And re. the first question in the detail?

YARNLADY's avatar

I believe it was intentional, and I also believe that it falls under the free speech rules.

filmfann's avatar

This is not a free speech issue. He can say anything he wants, but he will have to pay a price for offending people, just the same as if I went on television and called Romney a fag.
They can’t prevent him from saying it, but they can make it hard on him for making a bad choice.

wundayatta's avatar

I agree. He can say what he wants, but he is under contract with a major league baseball team. And if he says the wrong thing, then he loses income and can be suspended, as he was. What he said was offensive and intentional, in my opinion. He is getting the appropriate sanctions from his employer.

If it is an issue of hate speech, I’ll leave that to the various legal officials. They can seek to prosecute him if they think it is warranted. I think he’s been sanctioned appropriately, though.

ETpro's avatar

He knew what he was doing. I presume he spoke his mind. Regarding the first defense, he’s absolutely right he has the right to speak his mind. If he somehow thinks “Freedom of speech” guarantees him that nobody else can speak out in objection, or that he is free from the consequences of his speech, that’s the stupidity part. You are free to say whatever idiotic thing you wish in the USA but you aren’t guaranteed protection from others that might speak out in objection to your ideas. That, in fact, is what real free speech is all about. It is a double-edged sword. It cuts either way you swing it.

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flo's avatar

Do grade and high schools work hard to keep this kind of garbage out? What if it were a high school student, what would have happened then? What is it about us re. what we tell children not to do, and how we act ourselves, celebrities, using this “freedom of speech” excuse?

@ETpro my question “What if he said “I was intentionally being offensive, I’m in America after all I’m practicing freedom of speech”? I don’t think he used that defense.

@wundayatta What if he was the CEO of “Chick fil a” he would have gotten a raise.
Anyway, he should just go and raise money for cancer?

ETpro's avatar

@flo He didn’t use that defense, but logically and legally it would have had no impact. Nobody is arguing that he should not be free to speak his mind. He just isn’t free from the consequences of that speech.

wundayatta's avatar

@flo Certainly. I have no problem if he does charitable work. It would be nice if he stated that he understood what he did wrong and apologized to people he had offended. It’s not like he’s the first athlete to get into trouble like this.

Usually when people make recompense for their bad actions, others accept it, if they think it is sincere. It sounds like you don’t trust people who try to make up for what they did wrong. What would you do to them?

flo's avatar

Both of you missed the first paragraph in my last post.

@ETpro Calling it (using a slur of that magnitude, and on that kind of a stage) “speaking his mind” is really and truely stretching it. He probably sees it as support by the way.
And almost making excuses @wundayatta “It was a message for someone specific, I think” as if that mitigates it.

@wundayatta “Usually when people make recompense for their bad actions,others accept it,” The thing is, you advocate planning doing bad things because after all, to paraphrase you, they will be forgiven if they do charity work.

ETpro's avatar

@flo I was unaware that the phrase “speaking his mind” is only viable when “his mind” is filled with entirely non-controversial topics. Perhaps you can point me to a reference.

flo's avatar

@ETpro And the first paragraph I was referring to in my last post?

wundayatta's avatar

@flo, I don’t know how you are getting the ideas that allow you to make up words for me, but it’s not helping the conversation. It feels to me like you are kind of on the edge of rage for some reason. In any case, the stuff you are making up about me isn’t me. It’s you. I hope that you will listen to my words in the future, and not make up some for me based on whatever it is you think you know.

ETpro's avatar

@flo By a reference, I meant to US law and not something stated by any of us.

flo's avatar

@ETpro I know what you meant, but what is so scary about that paragraph?

By the way I don’t need a reference. If we all need a reference for everything, there would be no improvement in the world. There would be no such thing as oppositionin government, there would still be slavery, and on and on. Actually there is still slavery: like I’m a slave to @wundayatta, I never dare to contradict him.

flo's avatar

…Is it “I never dare contradict @wundayatta (no “to” in there?) et al.

wundayatta's avatar

Contradictions are fine. Please don’t put words in my mouth to say I said them when I didn’t. I can’t discuss things when I know you are thinking about imagined responses that you think I am making to the current issue. If you think I might be thinking something, then please ask about it first before making the assumption.

flo's avatar

@wundayatta Now, that paragraph.

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