Social Question

poisonedantidote's avatar

Are all pedophiles bad?

Asked by poisonedantidote (21549 points ) December 29th, 2012

I was just wondering, if you guys thinks all pedophiles are bad, or if you think some pedophiles are decent.

If a pedophile helps out in the community, and helps old ladies cross the streets, and only abuses children some times, is that a decent pedophile?

Should we discriminate against all pedophiles, just because some of them go ahead with their urges?

For every pedophile there is that acts on their urges, there are 50 that don’t.

Are some pedophiles decent people? or are all pedophiles bad by default?

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114 Answers

livelaughlove21's avatar

A person that abuses kids AT ALL isn’t a decent ANYTHING. A few good deeds don’t negate bad acts.

poisonedantidote's avatar

@livelaughlove21 I would have to agree with that.

chyna's avatar

All are bad. No amount of good deeds will ever make a pedophile a good person.

poisonedantidote's avatar

@chyna I agree, would you say this is something that only applies to pedophiles? or could that kind of logic be extended to other kinds of people?

El_Cadejo's avatar

Are we talking strictly pedophiles and not child molesters here? Like someone who is attracted to children but never acts on those urges in any way ever?

chyna's avatar

I think there will be a different answer for each case. For example, the Green River Murderer was a pillar of the community, big in his church, a family man, but he murdered people.
Then there is a guy who robs a store because he can’t feed his family, but in all other areas of his life is a great guy.
But a pedophile is still a thief of innocence. He damages children. Not much else can be worse than that.

poisonedantidote's avatar

@uberbatman Either, maybe they do molest kids, or maybe they are just attracted to them, but never act on it, maybe all they do is sit in the part and look at the kids, or just pleasure themselves while thinking about it, the full spectrum.

CWOTUS's avatar

Maybe social mores will change (again) some day and those who act upon a sexual attraction to children will not be considered evil and perverted (this was once common and accepted practice in ancient Greece, for example). But until that time those who act on their desires will be considered perverted and evil. “Having” the predilections but not acting on them can’t be considered a crime – yet.

El_Cadejo's avatar

@poisonedantidote Anyone who abuses children in any way especially sexually is automatically scum IMO. But in the case of those who have feelings for children but never act on it I don’t know that I can be so quick to judge. I mean none of us decided what type of men or women or fetishes we find attractive it was just always like that. So who am I to judge in that regard? Do I think they need some psychiatric help? Yes. But are they automatically evil or bad people? I don’t think so…

mangeons's avatar

I don’t believe that all are necessarily bad. It is a mental illness (as listed in the DSM-IV) that causes them to be attracted to children, not something that they choose to do. The distinction falls between those who choose to act on their feelings and those who do not. I don’t believe that someone is bad because of feelings they cannot control, but I do believe that it makes them bad to act on their feelings and/or not seek psychological help for their problem.

poisonedantidote's avatar

Should all pedophiles and child molesters be defended by the public, seeing as it is only some of them who act on their urges?

Would it be wrong for someone to blanket-hate all pedophiles, just based off the actions of some, and in light that some of them don’t act on their urges?

cookieman's avatar

As @mangeons said, it is not the desire or attraction to children that makes them “bad”, it’s the action of actually molesting (or attempting to mollest) a child. If they never act on these desires (which they clearly can’t control), they are (at best) mentally ill or (at worst) deviant and creepy.

JenniferP's avatar

God can forgive pedophiles if they quit offending so they aren’t all evil. Sure, they aren’t walking around all day long feeling evil toward everyone. They have nice moods and hold doors for people and act like everyone else. But what they do to children is the sickest thing that I can think of and I don’t care that they may have nice moments or not.

poisonedantidote's avatar

@JenniferP I agree (minus the god part :P) I personally think all pedophiles are sick scum.

@general If someone had a close friend molested by a pedophile, would it be emotionally immature for that person to then hate all pedophiles? Even the ones who don’t act on their urges?

chyna's avatar

How will you know a pedophile if he/she doesn’t act on their urges? Will they admit their urges publicly?
I don’t see that it would be immature to hate all pedophiles if someone you know was hurt by someone. It would only be human nature.

poisonedantidote's avatar

@chyna Lets just say, hypothetically, that all pedophiles wear a uniform that lets you identify them on sight.

You walk down the street, and see a pedophile car, with uniformed pedophiles inside, looking at the children coming out of school, and thus you know they are pedophiles. (maybe they are the kind that act on urges, maybe not, they just have the uniform on)

chyna's avatar

Then you should call the police and report them because the pedophile knows they shouldn’t be that close to children.

hearkat's avatar

I agree that we can not judge a person as “bad” based solely on thoughts or feelings they have but have not acted upon. I was molested as a child, and do not consider my perpetrator “bad” or “evil”, but rather as sick and pathetic.

It is part of the human condition that “bad” thoughts cross our minds, it is learning how to temper those thoughts and to choose to not behave in “bad” ways that lead to maturity and civil society.

@poisonedantidote – I am not understanding why you linked to this question from your other question about the police.

Mariah's avatar

Well shit, it’s probably not a popular opinion, but let’s have a go.

I do not think we choose who we are attracted to. I don’t think we choose our fetishes. Therefore, I cannot say someone is a bad person for attraction to children alone.

If someone is attracted to children, realizes it is bad, and keeps a firm grip on their urges and never touches a child, that’s downright admirable.

Any person who abuses a child is scum and nothing they could do could negate that.

mangeons's avatar

@Mariah Exactly. It is one thing to have feelings that they cannot control, it is another thing entirely to act on those feelings when they know it is wrong. I think that they need to get help for their condition, but I do not think they are necessarily bad people just because of thoughts and feelings that are out of their control.

poisonedantidote's avatar

@hearkat People defend the police to the death, even though lots of them abuse people, they point to how some police are “decent”, and only some of them abuse their power. I find it interesting to see how people are much faster to label pedophiles as bad, even though some of them don’t act on their urges.

According to others, It is wrong of me to hate all cops because some abuse people. However when it is pedophiles we are talking about, it is not so wrong of me to hate them. Funny that.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

I don’t know what we’re trying to get at here – are all people bad if they damage others/take away innocence, etc? I believe something like 35% of kids are sexually violated by their parents. Is that worse than being a pedophile, a person with a sexual attraction to kids? In my opinion, yes. I know somebody who has sexual urges for children. They have not to date done anything to any child. I do not think they’re a bad person. So, no, not all pedophiles are bad.

Mariah's avatar

@poisonedantidote The difference is that the label “pedophile” already says something about the person, while “police” just says their occupation. It’s a lot less easy to make blanket terms about people of certain occupations.

poisonedantidote's avatar

@Mariah I would say the label “police” says just as much as the label “pedophile”, if not more.

Mariah's avatar

Eh, I’m not the one to debate this with you, really, because for me there is kind of a corollary. Police who abuse people are bad, pedophiles who abuse children are bad, police and pedophiles who don’t abuse people are fine with me.

hearkat's avatar

@poisonedantidote – but your theory has not been proven. It seems that more people are saying that they don’t judge a whole group of people based on a label (whether police or pedophile), but rather that the individual should be judged based on their own behavior.

burntbonez's avatar

I don’t know what a pedophile is. I’m in favor of keeping people who have damaged children from doing it again. That doesn’t necessarily mean prison. It can mean teaching them effective coping techniques for their demons. I have no more special hatred for someone who hurts a child than I do for someone who hurts anyone else.

poisonedantidote's avatar

@hearkat That is not what I am seeing.

My friend gets abused by a cop, I hate all cops, I get told I’m a punk, that I’m emotionally immature, etc.

My friend gets abused by a pedophile, I hate all pedophiles, I get told I’m just human and that it is normal to feel like that.

Then I am the one who gets accused of double standards.

I guess the difference is, there are no cowards depending on pedophiles to keep them safe, otherwise I expect we would see much more support for pedophiles.

I see people blindly defending the police, the same as I see catholics blindly defending certain priests and popes and what not.

I am starting to think some people, would allow pedophiles to fuck their own children if it meant they could keep their illusion of safety.

DrBill's avatar

There is a statement in the original post about “For every pedophile there is that acts on their urges, there are 50 that don’t.” The fifty that don’t, are not pedophiles.

My vote is All pedophiles are bad.

poisonedantidote's avatar

@DrBill If you are sexually attracted to children you are a pedophile in my book, but I guess that is neither here nor there.

CWOTUS's avatar

@poisonedantidote are you not reading the actual writing here? Most people seem to be saying “pedophilia, not acted upon” is not such a bad thing. A dangerous predilection, perhaps, but not wrong in and of itself. But you seem not to be reading that. Instead you’re projecting some kind of ill will that you feel towards police and attempting to make it analogous to “inactive” pedophiles.

There’s no analogy. Read what’s actually here.

pleiades's avatar

In my world, having a son, fuck yes, all pedophiles are bad. Their intentions, their manipulations, their undermining, their awareness of the law, their awareness of age all of the mentioned displays knowledge against someone, a child, that is potentially weak minded when it comes to interaction with older people who know what they are doing.

The said above can’t be applied to every cop. Not every cop is out for blood believe it or not. But every pedophile is out for sexual pleasure. Whether it be physical or visually through child pornography. All pedophiles are monsters to my society.

WillWorkForChocolate's avatar

All pedophiles are scum sucking bottom feeders who get hot over naked children. All pedophiles are disgusting pieces of shit who would fap over my innocent little girls. All pedophiles are twisted, nasty, filthy, creepy, abnormal, perverted little fuckers.

Short answer? Hell yes, they are.

poisonedantidote's avatar

@CWOTUS Where are the people who are blindly defending the pedophiles?

If I make a statement that all pedophiles are bad, who here is going to jump on me to defend the ones who don’t act on it?

If I had not said anything about police, and just asked “why do so many people seem to hate pedophiles even though some don’t act on it” there would be no one fighting in the corner of the pedophiles, like they fight in the corner of the police.

poisonedantidote's avatar

* waits for someone to label @WillWorkForChocolate as an emotionally immature punk *

Go ahead, label away and defend the pedophiles, prove me wrong.

burntbonez's avatar

@poisonedantidote Did you ever have an antisocial desire that you never acted on? Did you ever, perhaps, think you’d like to murder someone? Does that make you a murderer?

poisonedantidote's avatar

@burntbonez I tend to act on my anti social desires, as I will do tomorrow afternoon. But I get your point.

pleiades's avatar

@burntbonez Are you kidding me? So you are comparing the emotion of anger to a sexual desire. Totally different. 100% different.

Done with this thread. * stopped following *

burntbonez's avatar

@pleiades How is it different? You seem to be saying that if you have a desire from anger, yet don’t act on it, you are not, say, a murderer, even though you wanted to commit murder.

However, if you see a child and find them beautiful and sexy and don’t act on it, you are, and forever will be a pedophile?

Have I understood you correctly?

mangeons's avatar

@WillWorkForChocolate So even if there is someone who has those feelings with no choice in the matter, but chooses not to act on them, they are still automatically a terrible person? Even though they fight their inherent feelings so that they can be a good person? Can you explain your reasoning?

poisonedantidote's avatar

@burntbonez While I agree with you that uncontrollable anger could be some what similar to uncontrollable sexual urges, wanting to have sex with a kid makes you a pedophile, because that is what the word means. If you want to kill someone, it makes you someone who wants to kill someone, there is just no word for that.

If you want to fuck a child, you are a pedophile, do it and you are a child molesting pedophile. If you want to kill someone, it makes you a “wannakill”, you don’t become a murderer until you do.

(if that makes any sense)

Coloma's avatar

@poisonedantidote First to be very clear, I never said YOU WERE a punk, I said you BEHAVED like one.
Secondly, to seek vengeance IS an emotionally immature thing to DO, as is condemning an entire group for the actions of a few.
Cops in the middle of a riot that are not discerning enough to segregate the truly innocent from those that are behaving in threatening ways are not even comparable to pedophiles.
Apples and oranges.

It’s fine to feel outraged, whether it is a renegade cop or a pedophile, but it is not okay to become violent and take matters into your own hands.
The right thing to do is seek justice in a legal fashion.

mangeons's avatar

@burntbonez Pedophilia is about who you desire and find attractive. A man who finds only other men attractive, but has never acted on it, is still a homosexual. A man who finds only women attractive, but has never acted on it, is still a heterosexual. Does that help clarify the difference? Anger is a temporary feeling, while pedophilia/homosexuality/heterosexuality/etc. is a constant state of being.

Constant, uncontrollable anger issues are a different matter entirely and should be treated as such, but feeling like you want to kill someone every once in awhile is not the same thing as pedophilia at all.

poisonedantidote's avatar

@Coloma Don’t get me wrong, I am not trying to compare pedophiles to police, I would not want to offend the pedophiles with such a comparison.

We are not talking cops in middle of a riot, we are talking cops. The cops in the previous question shot at a woman carrying shopping, in the fucking back, then beat her.

Cops do this kind of thing all the time.

Every time there is a cop incident, people defend the police, a few bad apples blah blah blah, and totally forget, that TODAY, police abused 1000’s of people, and will do so again tomorrow.

There comes a time, when you have to look at the big picture, and just say outright, ACAB.

Coloma's avatar

I would also say that as long as one does not act on their unsavory thoughts they have committed no crime, but I sure as hell wouldn’t keep anyone around in my life who revealed their closet sexual attractions to children. Talk about a smoking gun.

poisonedantidote's avatar

@Coloma As I would not keep anyone in my life who revealed their closet thirst for being a cop.

At least pedophiles can’t control themselves, police choose to do what they do. There are other jobs to choose, no one goes to fast food academy to work at Mc Donalds, police go to an academy to be police, in the time they are doing that, they could find a better job that pays more. They are just power hungry mini hitlers.

zigmund's avatar

Is no one going to call bullshit on @Simone_De_Beauvoir ‘s notion that “something like 35% of parents abuse sexually violate their children”? Gan we get a source please?

poisonedantidote's avatar

@zigmund Actually, if memory serves me right, in most cases the molester is a parent or someone close to the child. (but don’t ask me to produce a link)

Mariah's avatar

@zigmund I’m thinking she may have meant that 35% of abuse cases are carried out by a parent.

WillWorkForChocolate's avatar

@mangeons Even if they don’t act on it, they’re still disgusting, perverted fuckers. I don’t care if they feel like they “can’t help it.” That’s my passionate opinion, as both a mother, and a human being who believes children are sacred. If I ever started having sexual feelings for children, I would kill myself.

To be fair, I feel the same way about people who fuck animals.

burntbonez's avatar

The idea that if you feel a desire for a child once, you are forever more a pedophile and in need of having your head removed is a pathetic misunderstanding of human psychology. By that logic, every single one of us should be thrown in jail.

Desires do not equate with actions.

I’ll say it again.

Desires do not equate with actions.

If you are willing to condemn a person for what you believe is in their head, then there is no hope for any of us.

poisonedantidote's avatar

@burntbonez I would agree with that, once is once. Even twice is ok, it could just be a miss fire in the brain.

Hell, I once had a dream that I had a sex change, but I’m quite sure I’m not a ladyboy.

If the toughts are at all regular, then I would say they are a pedophile.

mangeons's avatar

@WillWorkForChocolate It’s not that they “feel like they can’t help it.” If you think that is true then you are simply ignorant of what pedophilia really is. I will say it again, it is a mental disorder. That’s like saying a depressed person can just stop being depressed and they just “feel like” they can’t. Are you someone that believes that homosexuality is a choice too? Think about it logically, if that is at all possible: Why would an adult choose to be attracted to children?

It’s a mental disease that literally cannot be helped, whether you want to believe that or not. They cannot help whether they have those feelings or not, but they can control their actions. That’s the difference between whether they are good or bad. If you don’t want to believe that, then that’s your prerogative I suppose.

poisonedantidote's avatar

@mangeons While I have given you a GA, I am still going to have to stir the shit a little.

Let me preface this by saying, I agree with you 99%, most pedophiles have no choice, as do most homosexuals and depressed people have no choice.

However, personally I can choose to not be depressed. Also, if you go to craigslist, or a prison, you will see there is no shortage of people who choose to have homosexual relations, and also, I don’t think it is beyond imagination, that an adult that has been given an all clear bill of mental health, would choose to have sex with children. Perhaps a fear of STD’s, or a fetish for virgins could do it.

I will admit though, 99% of the time, there is no choice, and also, the mental health of said hypothetical people could still be questioned.

WillWorkForChocolate's avatar

@mangeons As I said, that is just my passionate opinion. I couldn’t possibly care any less why they like children. Just the fact that they do like children turns my stomach and makes me wish pedophile hunting were a legal sport.

poisonedantidote's avatar

Must say I’m enjoying the debate/chat/read here, it is helping to take my mind of the cops and is helping me calm down a little. Perhaps I will admit I was wrong on some things later, but only perhaps.

mangeons's avatar

@poisonedantidote I’m sure there are a very select few that do choose it, but I would agree that 99% of the time it is out of their control. Some people just refuse to see that, I guess.

poisonedantidote's avatar

@mangeons I’m starting to wonder if my hate of cops is out of my control.

I have to say, when I see a police car, I feel just like @WillWorkForChocolate would feel when seeing a pedophile lurking in a park. Change the word “pedophile” for “cop” and it more or less sums up my feelings on it all.

I can relate to that kind of feeling, I feel the same about pedophiles too, I would gladly get the hounds and go on a hunt.

EDIT: p.s. that is why I like pedophile jokes so much, I like offensive jokes, and pedophilia is one of the most offensive topics to me. Just in case anyone wondered

Coloma's avatar

@poisonedantidote Well just WHAT do you suggest that John Q. Public does for law enforcement if all cops are eliminated as evil Hitlers?
I mean really?
If society COULD regulate itself, police itself and behave with some measure of civility and accordance we wouldn’t need law enforcement. Obviously that is never going to happen.
Do share your methodology of keeping large populations in control without law enforcement.

CWOTUS's avatar

I can’t quite decide whether you’re just being deliberately provocative, @poisonedantidote, or if you’re really as naive as some of your questions and statements indicate.

You can no more “decide not to be depressed” than you can decide not to have a broken arm if your arm is actually broken. “Sadness” is not “depression”. I agree that a person with normal brain chemistry can “snap out of it” and not be sad, but a depressed person cannot “decide not to be depressed”. If it were so, then psychotics could probably opt out of that, too, and all illness would be cured if we could decide that it was so. That’s madness, or extreme naivete.

Part of the problem with this thread is the lack of distinction that some people make because of the imprecision of language as it is used colloquially.

We commonly consider that “a pedophile” is someone who has acted upon his impulses and pathological sexual attraction to children. That person has earned our moral and legal approbation, and those persons are prosecuted. However, I believe that the actual definition of “pedophile” is “one who has those urges and attractions”, irrespective of his acting them out. A child molester is a pedophile who has acted on his pathology.

By the same token, not all cops, in fact, very few, are brutes.

There’s too much heat in this thread, and not enough light.

WillWorkForChocolate's avatar

@mangeons I don’t refuse to see it, I just refuse to care if it’s a mental issue. Kids are kids, and should never, ever, ever hit anyone’s sexual radar. Regardless of whether or not it’s considered to be a mental problem, it’s perverted and wrong, and for me that’s all that matters. Like I said, if I ever started having sexual desires for children, I would kill myself without hesitation. And if everyone else felt the same way, just think of how many innocent children would be saved from molestation.

I may be clinically depressed, but my depression does not have the potential to rape a child. I may be incredibly angry, but my anger does not have the potential to rape a child. I will say that my anger does have the potential to torture anyone who dares lay an inappropriate finger on one of my children.

poisonedantidote's avatar

@Coloma If we do away with slavery, who will pick the cotton?

Look, I gave you a GA on every answer, even the one were you told me to break a leg, no bad blood here. I’ll put the jokes and sarcasm aside, and be honest.

I honestly think, (very well maybe mistakenly), that there would be less problems without police. I have seen police hit people for little to no reason, I have seen police push a car on to a yellow line so they could give it a ticket.

Furthermore, I used to know a lot of criminals. I have a history in organized crime. Even then, in my foolish youth, I did not see criminals do so many bad things as I have seen police do bad things over the years.

I think, honestly. if you add up all the daily incidences of police brutality, police abusing their power, and what not, on a global level, if you don’t count petty crime, I think police out number serious criminals in terms of who causes the most harm in life.

I have no incentive or other motive to think these things, I base it just off what I see.

@CWOTUS A lot of the time I am deliberately provocative or joking around, but I am in fact serious when I say I can chose to not be depressed, I can also choose to become depressed.

I am not saying this applies to everyone, 99% of the time they have no choice. However, all jokes and sarcasm aside, I was diagnosed manic depressive, prescribed medication. Please don’t tell me I was just a bit sad, I can assure you I was not. I think my standing down by the train tracks alone writing my suicide note kind of proves I was really depressed.

As for police, I am quite sure every single cop on earth does a bad thing, at least once a week, or once a month if I am being generous. It is the nature of the job, it takes regular people, and it grinds them down until they are no better than the people they are forced to deal with all day.

EDIT: I did not always have the ability to choose it or not, I had to learn how, and it was very hard.

Only138's avatar

Good fucking grief! Yes, all pedophiles are fucked up and bad. CLUE: If you want a kid sexually, something is seriously wrong with this.

mangeons's avatar

@WillWorkForChocolate I agree that if someone actually sexually abuses a child, it makes them a terrible person, no doubt about it. If someone is having those thoughts, it does not automatically make them a bad person. Does it make them a threat to children? Yes. Would I want them near my children, if I had any? Definitely not. But does it make them a morally bad person? No, it doesn’t. They didn’t make any morally wrong choices, they didn’t do anything that makes them a bad person. Being a threat to children ≠ being a bad person.

WillWorkForChocolate's avatar

@mangeons I know a lot of people see it that way, I just can’t. Liking kids = nasty fucking pervert to me. Whether it’s acted on or not. Maybe that’s my own brain misfire that makes me feel that way. Even if “Joe” has never touched a kid, the fact that he wants to touch a kid makes me want to vomit and then get rid of him so he can never accidentally lose control.

mangeons's avatar

@WillWorkForChocolate Well, I suppose we’re never going to see eye to eye on the matter. I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

Coloma's avatar

@poisonedantidote Okay, so….perhaps cops should all be blonde topless bombshells wearing micro minis, thongs and squirting pepper spray out of their bullet proof bras.
Maybe they can carry batons shaped like giant cocks and sport folding stripper poles to disarm and distract crimes in progress. The TWAT team? How ‘bout that?
How do you feel about female cops or is your beef with the boys only?

poisonedantidote's avatar

@Coloma I dislike all police more or less evenly, regardless of gender. If I have any special hate for any of them, it would be the ones who stop people from having their right to protest. A protest is not a riot.

As for regulating the population, I don’t know what you could do without police, probably mob justice, who knows. What I do know, is criminals do not care about police one bit, they are more scared by consequence and mob justice than they are of the police and their possible consequences, at least the ones I have known.

I should probably mention, I don’t think I would have it in me to break a female cops knees in a revenge plot of some kind, I would be more forgiving, so I guess I do have some biased hate towards the male cops, specially the one who shot my female friend in the back with a rubber bullet. (I am also highly disgusted by people who hit women, so that just adds to my hate for them, 4 male cops, beating on a 40 year old mother for no reason, sick. I would skin them in a salt mine if I could.)

Coloma's avatar

@poisonedantidote .
That is too bad
When I was 17 years old a boyfriend and I were pulled over in his van that resembled a van used in a robbery the night before. I was very forcefully shoved up against the cops car and had my arm twisted behind my back and wrenched up to my shoulder.
I was held in that position for about 5 minutes until the mistaken vehicles identity was cleared.

Was I happy about that?
No.
I was in tears and was a petite, 5’3, 115lb. girl being flung around by some 6 foot 220 lb. guy.
I was hurt and humiliated but I don’t hold a vendetta against all cops because one jerk strong armed me.

poisonedantidote's avatar

@Coloma I’m starting to wonder if there is something wrong with me, I feel myself wanting to hurt the police officer that twisted your arm, that is how far my hate reaches, a moment ago we were arguing, now I want to get revenge for you, and find myself thinking how I would have brought you the fuckers head as a gift if I had been your boyfriend at the time.

The strange thing is, I don’t hate them because of my past in crime, and I already got my revenge for the one time that one of them dared to lay hands on me, and consider it to all be in the past now.

I wonder what is at the root of my hate for them.

Symbeline's avatar

An element of balance doesn’t work here. If a pedophile is your model citizen, helps old ladies across the road and supports the community, they’re still a monster if they abuse kids. If someone abuses a child, then they’re traumatizing and severely hurting them, which is something that will most likely remain with said child for the rest of their life. And that makes a pedophile a piece of shit.

Coloma's avatar

@poisonedantidote Well….probably has something to do with authority in general, and probably goes waaay back. Yeah, I think you should be worried, having major hate for anything is not healthy for you.

Coloma's avatar

@Symbeline Right. John Wayne Gacy did his little clown gig for sick children and then went home and raped and murdered young hired guys and buried them in his basement. Talk about taking off a mask. Now…if you really want to hate on something, hate fucking creepy clowns! lol

Symbeline's avatar

I dump rapists and murderers in the same hat. No amount of soup serving is ever going to make up for rape or taking a life away.

Only138's avatar

@Symbeline Agreed. Word!

Self_Consuming_Cannibal's avatar

I didn’t know you could be considered a pedophile just for having the urges, just like if you want to kill somebody but don’t, you’re not a murder, but here’s my stance.

You can’t help how you feel, you can only help how you react to how you feel. If a person has those urges but fights them off, I have no problem with them, but if they go around raping 8 year-olds, I say string them up by their genitals.

rooeytoo's avatar

@Symbeline – I was hoping someone would bring that up. I don’t think a pedophile who molests children is any better or worse than a rapist who attacks adult women. They are both despicable. Now everyone points out that rape is not a sexual thing but a power trip, is the same true of lusting after children?

I don’t get the rant about cops, some are good some are bad, same as all other jobs. I don’t want to live in a world without them. It is a hard job, I wouldn’t want it so I have respect for those that do it well and let’s face it, most do or you would be hearing about the bad ones on the news constantly.

poisonedantidote's avatar

For those who don’t get the rant on cops, it comes from this question.

http://www.fluther.com/153861/do-you-do-anything-to-inconvenience-or-make-life-hard-for/

@rooeytoo except you do hear about bad police on the news constantly.

If you go to google, and google “news 30th december 2012 police oppression police brutality” you will find stories of police abusing their power, today. If you change the day to 29th or 28th or 27th, you will find more stories.

Police abuse their power every single day.

Symbeline's avatar

@rooeytoo They are both despicable. Now everyone points out that rape is not a sexual thing but a power trip, is the same true of lusting after children?
Whether it is or not, as you say it’s despicable. Whatever drives it, it hurts the victims very bad. The only way I could forgive someone of something like that is if they’re completely bonkers and are not even aware of what they’re doing; which I do not believe is the case with most pedophiles, murderers or rapists.

@Coloma I certainly do agree with this. If a person has urges for hurting children/killing but doesn’t do it because they know it’s wrong and they don’t want to hurt anyone, then I would encourage such people to get help as soon as possible. Chances are, I like to think, they DO seek it, or at least keep their urges to themselves. But for the ones who don’t care about dealing pain to other people, fuck em.

rooeytoo's avatar

@poisonedantidote – perhaps but relative to the number of police there are, I think the incidences of abuse of power are low per capita. And as I said, would you want to live in a world with no police? I wouldn’t!

ucme's avatar

Right to the fucking core, any other deduction is ludicrous psychobabble.

Shippy's avatar

Too many answers and a great question. No, not all pedophiles are bad. However the act of pedophilia is bad. There is some faulty wiring in their brains. Some spend a life managing it and harm no one. Some don’t.

Coloma's avatar

@Symbeline Agreed. Thoughts are not actions. I wished my ex husband would drop dead but I didn’t go out and buy a gun or poison his coffee. haha

Blackberry's avatar

Hitler brought Germany out of a depression. So…..no. If they still act they’re not good in my book, and my book is good.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@zigmund First of all, who are you to call me on my ‘bullshit?’ We’re not even friends for you to do that with that tone…but let me tolerate you for a bit and provide the link here – 37% of the time, it is the parent molesting their child.

JenniferP's avatar

Isa. 1:18 says “Come, now, you people. and let us set matters straight between us, says Jehovah. ‘Though the sins of you people should prove to be as scarlet, they will be made white just like snow; though they should be red like crimson cloth, they will become even like wool.” In another part of the Bible it describes different kinds of immoral behavior and the people that had participated in it and says ”...but that is what you WERE.” These two scriptures show that even the most wicked people can become good.

King Manasseh sacrificed his own son in fire in the Bible. But he humbled himself and became a worshipper of God and was welcomed by God. Paul used to be a persecuter of Christians in the Bible and even assisted in the murder of some. Yet he changed and became good in God’s eyes. There are places in the Bible where it says that people “think thoughts of men and not of God” meaning that they don’t have the capacity to see things from God’s capacity. When I think of some heinous acts done by people I am disgusted and can’t get past them. But that doesn’t mean that God can’t. If someone is molesting children, I don’t care if they are cheerful and smiling and hold doors in their non- lustful moments. However, if they truly recognize their error and repent, I have to acknowledge that they can be forgiven.

CWOTUS's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir I think “the bullshit” you were called on is your original assertion (as you wrote it) that “35% of children [in the USA] are molested by their parents”. The link you provided does not bear out that assertion. If you had intended to say (which you did not say) “35% of child molestation [in the USA] is committed by one or both parents” then you may have been correct.

The wording in the link you provided said just over one-third (36%) were sexually abused by a biological parent. So it was poor wording in your original statement that led to the “bullshit” comment.

burntbonez's avatar

I believe they mean they 35% of children who have been abused are molested by parents. Not that 35% of all children in the US are molested by parents. The data in that link say that only one out of 58 children in the US suffer abuse.

CWOTUS's avatar

Thanks, @burntbonez. Even my wording could have been better than it was (should have been, especially as I was trying to be corrective). That was “just over one-third (36%) [of the abused children] were sexually abused by a biological parent.”

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@CWOTUS oh for crying out loud. lol.

Yeahright's avatar

What’s funny? Have I missed something here?

zigmund's avatar

I have no idea what Simone meant in her first statement. But she wrote that 35% of children are abused by their parents and I called bullshit. And do we have to be friends for me to take any sort of tone with you?

Yeahright's avatar

@zigmund Just who are you? and similar have been asked by him/her before. Not sure if it means who are you in real life, who are you here in Fluther, who do you think you are, do you have the right credentials to challenge his/her comment, etc. It would be nice if he/she could explain this for future reference. Last time I commented on this, it was modded and deleted. I think it was labeled as an unhelpful comment. But I think it is helpful for other users in the future, in case he/she asks them again who are you?

zigmund's avatar

I am mystery

nofurbelowsbatgirl's avatar

@zigmund I think you are taking the comment @Simone_De_Beauvoir said at face value. I do not believe it was meant that out of all the population of children 35% are molested by their parents. I believe the stats are for the population of children WHO HAVE BEEN molested, that does not include children who have not been molested which is why I believe you are taking the comment out of context.

First you should of stated that you didn’t understand the comment and then once it is explained to you then you can call bullshit. I agree with @burntbonez

So maybe now I will call you on your bullshit
Putting the cart before the horse much?

CWOTUS's avatar

The statement was perfectly understandable; it was just “wrong”, because it was quoted without the correct context. It can’t be incumbent upon every reader to request that posters clarify every incomplete and inaccurate quote. Calling it bullshit may have been slightly over the top, but the assertion that was made was completely, wildly, inaccurate.

I usually characterize assertions like that as bullshit, too, only not so often in writing.

Yeahright's avatar

Statistics should be used very carefully when we use them to support our arguments. By failing to do so we risk not only being inaccurate but also misleading. @zigmund was in my opinion very observant and right on point since ten or so people had made contributions in between him and @Simone_De_Beauvoir and not one requested a source were such data had come from. It wasn’t after s/he reluctantly provided the link that their statement made sense. The comment was not taken out of context. Had we not been referred to the info on the link, there was no way to know s/he was referring exclusively to 35% of the population of children who are molested.

nofurbelowsbatgirl's avatar

Sorry but I believe I understood @Simone_De_Beauvoir‘s comment the moment I saw it.

I find it absurd that while talking about pedophiles and molested children that one would just factor the entire population into their equation and not just factoring in the population of the molested, the only ones that have anything to do with the question, because children not molested have nothing to do with this because we aren’t talking about them or their parents who haven’t touched them. So when I saw the comment I did not even think of children who are not molested or their parents who are obviously not molesting them. That’s just my personal opinion….and now I’m out lol because now I’ve got myself trapped on a loopy merry-go-round my explaination is a little too friend of a friend of a friend of my cousins friend of a friend of my sisters on my mothers side :/

zigmund's avatar

We are required here to be impeccable with our grammar and spelling. Should we not be as impeccable with our data?

Mariah's avatar

Umm she gave an ambiguous answer, came back and clarified, and we’re all still talking about it why?

nofurbelowsbatgirl's avatar

It isn’t a “requirement” here to be impeccable with grammar or spelling. It just helps.

Shippy's avatar

Despite all the pedantics I bet it is mostly family that abuse their children. @nofurbelowsbatgirl grammar and spelling is everything at Fluther, even if you are in neuroscience you still need the three R’s. Which harks back to the olden days when those people only took the three R’s as subjects. Which considering was not a lot of subjects compared to what we are required to study today.
@zigmund No here on Fluther you can type any kind of bigotry and its all OK, if you can spell it all correctly.

Yeahright's avatar

@nofurbelowsbatgirl FYI it is requirement.
You understood their comment because you assumed a population that was not defined there. Again, without the context provided in the link, it read as 35% of the kids in general. @Shippy Yes, you’re right. We can say and type anything we want—specially here in social. We can voice our opinions and ways of interpreting stuff as long as we comply with proper grammar. However, even if Fluther does not check stats as they check grammar, if we want our comments to have certain validity we should try to be as accurate as possible.

nofurbelowsbatgirl's avatar

I still believe the the comment was not gramatically wrong. I agree with @Mariah, its time to move on now and stick to the question. Simone clarified so we all understand now that it was a comment solely meant about only those who are and have been molested Let’s try to stay on topic :/

BTW, Yes while it is true when you are asking a question you need proper grammar so people understand it, your answer does not have to be as grammatically proper.
Your answer is your opinion. I have never been modded on an answer here on fluther solely based on grammar or spelling.

Altho the fluther mod Gods have got me for going off topic like I’m doing here :/

There are 3 sections to post your question under you pick one and the fluther mod gods will mod your answers according to those guidelines regardless of spelling or grammar if grammar mattered in answers then this post would not exist here.

So from now on can we please let the mod gods do their jobs and leave the modding to them :)

zigmund's avatar

You have a strange notion of “and now I’m out lol”.

nofurbelowsbatgirl's avatar

@zigmund Now I’m out, didn’t mean I was leaving the question forever that was because I was going on and on in circles and that was yesterday, today is a new day.

Lets stay on topic?

zigmund's avatar

Ugh. That’s the most awful run on sentence ever.

Shippy's avatar

Hmm! OK, this is all sounding odd. And kinda freaky?

augustlan's avatar

[mod says] Let’s not get personal here, folks. Move on.

Blackberry's avatar

Hay guise watcha talkin bout?

mattbrowne's avatar

Not if it’s just an individual fantasy and no child ever gets hurt.

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