Why do so many atheists...

I guess because a lot of it is steeped in culture and tradition. I mean, why do Atheists celebrate Christmas? Why do some Theists cheat on their spouse? Someone with a history +6 correct me, but in places like Canada and America, the foundings had a lot to do with religion, so it was bound to leave it’s mark. Now I’m not saying religion is no longer important, but it has lost a lot of its power, although as the time goes by, one can’t deny that a lot of the traditions have left their mark.

But weddings and funerals have existed long before Christianity was ever anything…one might ask then, what are their true origins?

My parents actually got married in a town hall though, and if I ever do get married, it better look like something from Lord of the Rings. And there also better be a burning ship when I die. And a bunch of dead shit.

In my area, if you don’t want to get married in a drab courthouse, you must use a minister/priest/rabbi to conduct your wedding. I’ve been married twice, neither time in a church but both times with a minister. I wore white on both occasions, just because that’s how I picture a bride in my head. For a funeral, we have more options. I’d want a funeral director rather than a religious leader to conduct my funeral (if I even have one).

For all the rest of it, it’s because morality is not tied to religion (or a lack thereof). Atheists have no defining trait aside from not believing in a god. There is no doctrine, no common set of universal morals, so we decide these things for ourselves. What seems immoral to one person seems perfectly moral to another, atheist or not.

Lisa: will you marry me?

If marriage number two doesn’t work out, I’ll think about it. ;)

@augustlan Can I marry your pillows?

My pillows will consider your offer. ;)

Tell me what they say!

Being an atheist doesn’t mean one doesn’t have a moral code (sex before marriage, monogamy, etc) or keep them from being traditional (white dress, funerals, etc).

Who knows why they do these things? Then again, who knows why anyone does these things? Could be cultural, could be personal preference, or could be external circumstances that vary individually.

You could ask why atheists get married at all and get the same answers.

@livelaughlove21 Yip for sure. Was just wondering why at my own ex husbands funeral so many atheists took part in prayer and also hired a minister. For example.

I’m an atheist and I had a traditional Jewish wedding. Why? Because that’s what we wanted. It was fun.

I have attended funerals and bowed my head during prayers at a funeral. I don’t actually pray but I do respectfully follow the proceedings. It’s just about being respectful. If your ex husband was religious they perhaps hired a minister to meet his needs rather than their own.

@Lisa – I’ll be waiting.

In fact, I’ve been waiting for a girl like you

Or scream out god’s name during orgasms, fucking hypocrites…yell some other fictional character’s name, like Mickey Mouse or Robin Hood for example, you remain animated without sounding like a confused pilgrim.

Traditions and social constructs that have been hammered into one since birth. No one is completely immune to these forms of indoctrination and brainwashing, unfortunately.
For the record, I do not do any of the things in your list and I doubt very much that the majority of Atheists do either.
Say, why do Christians use months named after Roman emperors and Days named after Nordic Gods?

My wife and I were nearly atheist when we got married. We had planned to get married in the priest’s office. The only reasons for the priest was that I knew him since I was a kid and to please the catholic sides of our families.

Somehow, my wife’s aunt got involved, next it was a church wedding with a full mass an large reception, something neither my wife nor I wanted. We spent the time telling jokes and noticing the strong smell of garlic coming from the priest and from the open door to his residence. My dad noted this with disapproval. We didn’t care, we were married and we spent the entire 3 day weekend in a motel room. We only took a break on the second day to eat the resumed our “honeymoon”.

I had to go back to the Navy Electronics school and she had to return to her nursing school.

@Shippy: “Why do so many atheists get married in Churches, with white dresses? Why do they follow the traditional route with funerals?

Also why do so many keep biblical values like no sex outside of marriage and other dictated values? Plus also judge people harshly for things like polygamous marriages? Or same sex partnering? Or even just threesome marriages.”

This sounds like nobody I know. I’ve known one person who married in a church – and it was because his wife is a Christian. Everyone else I know (including myself) has married outside with a justice of the peace. Everyone I know is very much a fan of sex outside of marriage. We have no problem with polygamy or same-sex partners.

I’m confused. Are you sure that your atheist sample is accurate? Maybe what you’re talking about is Christians who just don’t practice some of the parts of the religion any longer (church attendance on Sundays, for example)?

Atheists don’t always marry other atheists, and most atheists don’t come from all-atheist families, either. So there’s often a lot of social pressure from others – the spouse or one or both families – to have a more traditional ceremony. And since “it doesn’t mean anything” to the atheist, then they often (contrary to popular opinion) don’t have to make a big stink about it.

Ritual fills a basic need. It just so happens that religion has been the repository of ritual for most cultures.

Ritual has a lot in common with language in that it’s a carrier of socially agreed upon meaning. I can make up my own words, and maybe they’ll mean something to me. I can go out on a street corner and recite a poem in those words, but no one else will share in my sentiments. For them to understand the significance of my poem, I have to draw on old, communal words.

Ritual is a social vocabulary that uses symbols of action and visuals instead of words. It’s a proclamation that draws on old vocabulary so that others will understand its significance. You can take some liberties with the vocabulary by making analogies—like substituting a civil servant for a preacher—because the underlying template is similar. But there’s going to be a point at which meaning is lost.

@CWOTUS My wife and I are atheists, my kids tried religion and are now atheists, their kids just don’t care about religion and don’t label themselves at all, the are too busy to bother with religion. That gives me hope for future generations.

I notice that atheists that accept a religion do so because they have other mental problems. When the problems are resolved, their dependence on religion disappears.

I can only speak for myself regarding this. I will be getting married in a church, because I am forced to by the way the system works here.

If you want to get married in court, like we want, you can forget about it. They have intentionally made it impossible to marry in court, and have made it so easy to marry in church.

If we want to marry in court, I need 6 different papers from the UK, my country of birth. I need to go to England, and get a birth certificate, a paper to say I am single and that I have never been married before, a paper that says I intend to marry, a criminal record paper, a paper saying that I have lived here in Spain at least 2 years, my passport, and a bunch of other stuff.

Once I have all those papers, I have to get them all translated by a legal translator, who I then need to bring to court with me, so that I can get all the papers notarized and legalized. Once that Is done, I can book and appointment to get married in court.

My girlfriend will also need 6 other papers from her country of birth, Taiwan. She will also need to have it all legally translated and notarized.

You have a 3 month window to do all of this, if you are one day over, the papers are no good and you need to get them all again. You can´t get an appointment until you have all the papers.

The problem is, that if you want an appointment to get married in court, you have to go on a waiting list, and you will be made to wait 4 to 5 months before you can get married. By the time the 4 or 5 months are up, your papers that are only valid for 3 months have expired, and you can’t get married.

In other words, it is literally impossible for us to get married in court, like we want. So what is the alternative?

Well, we could let a magical pedophile do his magic pedophile dance in his magic building, and this will allow us to get married without any papers. He does his little bronze age ritual, and this forces the government to allow us to marry, all we need is ID and some money.

So, for the past month, every sunday I have been going to church, talking with the magic pedophile, and telling him lies about how much I believe in his nonsense. He has even told me that he is impressed to see a young guy who knows so much about the bible and what not.

Basically, we both love each other, and we plan to spend the rest of our lives together. However, the little make believe retarded system that this world follows, will see us miss out on lots of things if we don’t marry.

If we just live together, our kids will have problems with inheritance once we are dead, we will pay higher taxes as single people, and lose out on other things too.

Ideally, we would go in to our bedroom alone, and tell each other that we are together for good, and have that count as a marriage, and have nothing to do with courts or churches or any other strangers who have no reason to intrude on our existence.

However, the system is basically forcing us to marry, and to do so in a church, so, that is what we will do.

After we are married, I will be going back to chuch one final time, to give my own sermon, and when I do, all the religious people will wonder why atheists can’t just leave them alone. After forcing us to get baptized, forcing us to do comunion, and forcing us to marry under the eyes of the magic pedophile and the non existent invisible man in the sky, they will turn round, and accuse me of forcing my atheism down their throat.

All I can say is they best get their tongue depressers ready and say aaah, because after being forced to join the religion that helped the nazi party, I am going to have a thing or two to say to them.

Had we been allowed to marry in peace, they would not have to hear any of it. However, as they have set up their religion in a way that forces people like us to join them, they will have to hear me tell them exactly why their god is make believe, exactly why they are all morons, and exactly how they are going to decompose in the ground once they die and fall in to oblivion for all eternity.

Fair is fair.

Thanks everyone interesting feedback and a few I guess nailed it @ragingloli commented on how prescriptive rules, well, still rule. Was just curious to see the different methods or approaches used in traditional ways of doing things. That spoke of ones personal values. If any of those internal constructs were in place. I know all atheists are not the same, nor are all Christians. And @ucme Loll.

I’m agnostic, so yeah.

@poisonedantidote
You just made me moist.

Mostly it is because Rituals will always have a place in our society & culture. People do feel a need for Rituals ,,, whatever their underlying belief system is.

I didn’t know before reading this question that some atheists choose to have traditional church weddings. My parents were both religious but had to have only a civil wedding because they were so poor.

But I agree with previous posts that ritual is important for humans. I would think it would be more important in terms of funerals. Still getting my head around why atheists would desire religious weddings…

@Symbeline, if you go down in battle before me, I volunteer to be the one to set your funeral pyre alight.

The same reason gay couples often get married in a somewhat traditional manner; Christianity has wheedled it’s way into secular culture.

What you are describing is not religious, it’s secular. Uh…gawd.

@bookish1 Even with atheists, some people would prefer to be married in a place that looks like This as opposed to This

Could just be the difference between vaulted stone ceilings and stained glass, rather than dreary acoustical ceiling tiles and dusty venetian blinds.

@Shippy This is really more than one question so I will answer in 2 parts!
I think people like to get married in churches for a few reasons which have nothing to do with religion. For one thing, churches are often quite beautiful and for a special moment in our lives we want that beauty, sense of mystery and aesthetic surroundings. In addtiton it satisfies a sort of romantic nostalgia that many people have in their heads regardless of whether or not their upbringing is religious or not. And if it was religious, perhaps you left behind the suffocating belief system but retain some respect for the good parts of the ideology you were brought up in, as if you have shreds of reverence still clinging to your body refusing to let go….
The white dress is not religious and wasn’t always so and varies across cultures. The symbolism of white meaning purity isn’t even universal and of course, most brides nowadays are not virgins, lol. So perhaps the white dress is just a romantic notion ingrained in our culture that speaks to the purity of our intent and our resolution to bond forever with another person.

Secondly,
“why do so many keep biblical values like no sex outside of marriage and other dictated values? ”
I wouldn’t say these are exclusively biblical values. They are ethical and personal choices. They may be programmed and instilled into us or they they may be the result of a soul searching for the right way to live. Of course there is a lot of societal pressure towards monogamy that is hard for anyone to ignore. It’s sort of understandable that people who aren’t religious excoriate “cheaters” because it’s a form of dishonesty (albeit all too human vulnerability and fallibility) It’s harder to understand why even atheists tend not to accept the notion of open marriage. Perhaps it’s in the best interests of humankind to have a stable parental unit and non-monogomous unions are not considered stable.

I know what you’re getting at though. I have sometimes questioned whether or not it’s hypocritical for church haters to indulge in baptismal ceremonies for the sake of ritual. I mean, if you don’t believe in God and you don’t believe in the church why are you just going through the motions with a church official? Why not just have a naming day ceremony and party if you want to commemorate? After all, baptism is the churches way of accepting your child into the church.

Of course, I understand the situation being a little different if an atheist marries a theist and wants to be respectful even though they themselves do not have any connection to the church or its belief system.

Kardamon, I just saw your answer, and yeah, like I said, aesthetic preference.

This Church would be a nice place to get married. As would This especially if you like the Wizard of Oz.

On the campus at Cornell, there’s a beautiful chapel that would be the perfect venue for a traditional—but atheist—wedding. No religious imagery at all, but grandeur out the wazoo.

Cornell was one of the few universities of its time that was strictly secular; others had some religious affiliation. They received so much heat because of this that they built this chapel to mollify public opinion, but wouldn’t go so far as to actually put anything religious in it

@thorninmud That is so gorgeous!!!
@Kardamom I love the beauty and simplicity of those chapels. There are few things more beautiful than wood bathed in sunlight.

Because most people are capable of taking something they like from a ceremony and leaving the rest behind.

I’m pretty sure most people don’t care about the symbolism associated with traditional weddings. It’s the same reason why still attend christmas dinners: everyone else does it. Not to mention a wedding is supposed to be their day so they’re going to do whatever they want, because they can.

And all atheists aren’t hardcore activists. You kind of assumed we have to be standing up against traditional weddings.

We got married by a marriage celebrant from a secular organisation. I wore a pretty cream coloured dress. When I die, I will not have a church service or church burial.

I know plenty who got married and even baptised their children to appease family obligations. They don’t believe, but they don’t want to force their beliefs down elderly relatives throats and feel that the traditions are a way of family bonding and are innocuous enough for them to endure.

There is a difference between ‘believing something’ and ‘fighting against’ something. The two things can be mutually exclusive, if you chose it to be. I am an atheist who picks her battles. I can spot a waste of my breath at 20 paces. I am not into smashing my head against a brick wall. I will not argue for the sake of arguing. I will nod politely and move on. As I have said here before: “There is only one person more pointless than the argumentative fool, and that is the man of reason who wastes their time arguing with them.”

… deny religious fundamentalists a second escape route?

This means they should stop making religious people choose between science and religion, pointing out that “there are those who have religious beliefs that conform with observable facts as much as any scientific theory, which means that their beliefs do not conflict with science as they do not attempt to address issues that are observable/provable through scientific means.”

Atheists can help end religious fanaticism that way. Yet many American atheists deny American fundamentalists this escape route by telling them that religion is complete nonsense and not believing in God is the only true way to go for any decent, rational human being.

I had a wedding which was not religious. I specifically chose to exclude any reference to God or Gods. I found a secular celebrant who could support us in our choices. I wore a simple champagne coloured lace dress. We were blessed by our family and friends under a beautiful old oak tree. My background was celtic so I had a piper, my bridesmaid was my father, and we drew heavily on the earthly elements for our strength and connectedness not a god or higher being. The day was steeped in ritual and I suppose most ritual does derive historically from a spiritual base, however our choice was based on universal connectedness in that our journey on this earth is a shared experience not divinely ordained.

When I die I will be buried. Religion has no place in my life or death, what is important is my footprint on this planet> I used to think I’d be cremated but after much thought I’m going with a simple low carbon sarcophagus, Ecopod and sequestering my carbon in the ground. I’m in Australia and at present it’s quite difficult to have woodland burial as most need to be in traditional cemeteries, but i will continue to research options. Oh and I don’t plan on doing this too soon, just thinking ahead and out loud!

@Arewethereyet YOur wedding sounds beautiful. Interesting idea as far as burial…but why do you want to “sequester” your carbon in the ground? Just curious. Have you given any thought to what kind of funeral ceremony you’d like it to be? Would you have music for instance? A eulogy? Flowers?

Thanks @Earthgirl, from my research a cremation is really quite polluting whereas a burial puts the carbon that is in the body back into the ground, a bit like planting a tree. I would like a woodland plot with a beautiful grove of trees planted around me providing shelter and a place of peace and contemplation. As for a funeral very small low key, fun with great music and a big party with lots of laughter, because that’s how I live my life. I don’t care for the trimmings a funeral is a time to celebrate life and gather together to say farewell. So decorations, flowers etc are optional if that’s what the family want, I’m not fussed. Oh and inside that sarcophagus I’ll be wearing something comfortable, no fancy clothes. Your a long time dead.

@Arewethereyet

I used to think I’d be cremated but after much thought I’m going with a simple low carbon sarcophagus, Ecopod and sequestering my carbon in the ground.

Good idea. I was also considering cremation, but after reading your post, I think I’ll opt for having myself tossed into the compost heap in my backyard. ;-)

Ah compost, if only we could. Some cultures in the past have gone down this line but unfortunately beauacracy and political correctness get in the way :D

@Arewethereyet You might appreciate this method. It turns you into a tree!

thanks Augustlan unfortunately it still involves the cremation process which adds to green house, but for those who are dead, ha ha, set into getting crispy i thinks its a fabulous idea.