Atheist Flutheronians, how would you handle it if your child believed man’s origin on Earth came by way of extraterrestrials?

Have they thought their reasoning through and come up with a logical reason as to why they believe this to be the case? If so then that is fine by me even if I do think they’re wrong.

If such a tracking device actually were found, and it was undeniably determined to be of extraterrestrial origin, I suppose I would have to take the notion seriously. Otherwise, no, I’d put both origin stories in the same camp. Let me know when it turns up.

If your question is about how a parent would handle it if their child believed in things the parent didn’t, and you are aiming the question at atheists, why do you feel the need to involve aliens? Or did you just want people to say that the notion of a god is as outlandish as the notion of an alien?

Isn’t that what Scientologists believe in?

I’d explain to my child that extraterrestrials introduced giant run-on sentences to the population of Earth, thereby producing incomprehension, misunderstanding and Fox News.

My kids are grown. We never forced religion on them. They went on a church camp trip once and we tried several churches. Everything from Catholic to non-denominational christian. They both decided that they didn’t want or believe any religion. One of my daughters was married in a church because one of their friends was a pastor and offered the use of his church for the ceremony. I think that was the last time she was in a church.

We, as a family, don’t care what religion our acquaintances and friends have as long as they don’t try to recruit us.

Children believe all sorts of crazy stuff. I don’t expect them to know any better, since they are children.
If they grow to adulthood believing crazy stuff in the face of evidence to the contrary, then I would consider my parenting attempt a failure, decommission the offending unit, and start over. This is why I am not a parent.
When other peoples’ grown children still believe in crazy stuff, I mock and jeer at them. It’s fun, and I feel almost grateful to the parents for providing me such fodder for entertainment.

I would have nothing to do with him anymore and I would ask the aliens if they would kindly beam him back up.

My children and grandchildren would love to believe that, but since they don’t talk to me about what they believe I wouldn’t know it.

Didn’t we already cover this in your question about unjustified beliefs and children?

Probably not the best time in a child’s upbringing to teach or to model for him or her that it’s not right to explore concepts and beliefs other than ones commonly held.

It’s difficult to answer the question because it presumes aliens are real.

Edit: I misread the question. A crazy idea is a crazy idea, and I’m sure I would have already taught my offspring how to think critically, while keeping them away from cults.

I find the extraterrestrial theory more plausible then the deity theory. So, no, I would not think they were daft in the head.

@Blackberry I read your answer too quickly, I thought you were keeping them away from cats.

Hypocrisy Central, phone home.

I’d explain that I base my beliefs on real evidence, evidence that is verifiable, repeatable, and predictive. Human anecdotes, whatever they may involve, are not credible evidence, and I would explain why that is so. But in the end, my kids are free to make up their own minds. And I am free to make up mine. So I wouldn’t budge from my “show me the evidence” position; nor would I budge from my unconditional love of my children.

I would include a $50 bonus on their weekly allowance for creative thinking.

Explain how scientific method works and why it so overwhelmingly supports the theory of evolution. Talk about DNA and how human DNA shares components with even the lowest life forms. Ask them to explore how their theory of extraterrestrial origin supports what we know. Perhaps the extraterrestrials gradually introduced all life on Earth to make it appear as if it evolved. While this cannot be categorically ruled out, the theory of evolution provides a simpler explanation and is preferred by scientists. In the end the kids are going to believe what they want. The best that you can do is to present the case for reason and hope for the best.

I’d ask them why they think this, and what reasoning brought them to that conclusion. Of course, I wouldn’t expect little kids to be able, or willing, to give an adult like answer. Not saying kids are stupid, far from it, but I would certainly try to see, how I might be able to, how they came to believe this.

Very good question though. The general idea here is; it’s normal to believe that God gave us life, and even if as an atheist, I do not believe this, it’s still the norm that this is an accepted belief by many people in society.
However, anyone who seriously believes in the TV alien will be mocked an laughed at. Hell, I’m not saying I’ve never done so. But this is a fact.

I wanted to point out that believing in God and believing and aliens is not the same, because God is made up, while aliens could be real. With said difference, how come aliens are so crazy, yet God is so accepted? This is the little fault I permit myself to point out in your premise, at least based on my own personal stance. You should be able to see that aliens CAN be real, and I know you’re a believer, but I also know you’re smart enough to understand why some people don’t believe in a god.
For all we know of the universe, there could be other life out there. How do we know there ain’t? Unlike God though, we need proof that aliens are real, as faith is not part of science or discovery.
Thing is, the way said possibility is portrayed by entertainment and the media, (which I believe are the main, and only, authorities on aliens, at least pretty much) is complete bullshit and follows, pretty much, the same types of patterns which I personally believe makes God to be made up. I’m certainly not doing it on purpose to be an asshole, but sometimes I think the only reason some hardcore religious folk don’t believe in aliens or vampires is because The Bible says it ain’t real.

Aliens being crazy, God being normal…there may be an answer to this, although I’m not a psychologist or social scientist. Religion is nurtured in many families, has been as such for centuries. So it becomes the norm. As far as social norms go to make societies work properly, at least, as we have come to accept them…religion ain’t so batshit crazy as a family raising their kids around the idea of aliens, at least, not in a prominent or habitual way that is true of religion. That said, if my kid still believed that he was created by aliens when he was 17 years old, I would consider the possibility of some kind of mental illness, (most especially if aliens have nothing to do with how I raised him) while with religion, being rooted in our societies, would be cleared of those charges. I mean seriously, when’s the last time you heard of a family telling their kids to watch X-Files before dinner?
Now if my kid joined some fanatic religious cult that dedicated itself to the Apocalypse, I would be very worried and concerned, and would do what I could to yank them out of there. Not saying religion doesn’t cause trouble.

But eh I’m just this redneck person here who doesn’t have kids, so it’s hard thinking of what I would indeed do…if it became serious. Chances are, I wouldn’t worry much about it if it was some kid thing, and if it didn’t affect their every day lives. I would listen to them though, and not interrupt with my own thoughts, first step, I daresay? Anyways dude, you ask cool shit.

Were I an atheist, I could answer this question. Alas, I cannot.

I’m an atheist and I don’t think believers are “daft in the head” in the first place. I certainly wasn’t daft or crazy back when I believed in a god. Just sayin’.

To paraphrase my answer on your other question (linked by @tom_g up there ^^):

A belief in aliens itself wouldn’t bother me overly much, but joining a religion/cult based on that belief might. Depends on the group’s practices and dogma, etc. It would also depend on the age (really, the maturity level) of the child in question.

But I’d ask why they came to that conclusion. We’d discuss the evidence they’re basing their belief on and whether or not it stands up to scrutiny. If they were still convinced of it after that discussion, I would handle the end result the same way @ETpro would.

It is a hell of a lot more likely than gods.

I believe in God but whatever my daughter wants to believe is up to her. I don’t and won’t push anything on her. Nothing was pushed on me, as I’m not very religious at all.

I would accept that she wanted to believe that, as long as she didn’t try to persuade me to believe it too. I would also point out to her that such beliefs are best kept to oneself, to avoid being thought of as a crackpot like David Icke.

Non-Christian God-believer here

I would be proud of their creativity and independent thinking skills. No biggie. I would liken it to my childhood disbelief in dinosaurs (since, in my opinion, the bones could have fit together better in a different configuration to be discovered at some point in the future).

They would have no more evidence than I had as a kid.

Well, my son is a couple of months away from his fifth birthday. If he came up with that, I’d congratulate him on his creativity, and ask him to draw a picture and then tell the story for my video camera.

If he were 15, I’d probably sit down with him and discuss the matter, aiming to get him to follow his own thought processes to a logical conclusion, whatever that may be.

If he were 25, I’d roll my eyes and ask him to open the pickle jar already.

@glacial If your question is about how a parent would handle it if their child believed in things the parent didn’t, and you are aiming the question at atheists, why do you feel the need to involve aliens? Or did you just want people to say that the notion of a god is as outlandish as the notion of an alien?
First off, the notion of god is more outlandish than aliens, since gods are created by man where as God created man. Having cleared that up, the reason to include aliens is because mankind came from somewhere, and since Atheist assume man was not created that leaves only two other plausible choices (when ruling out man’s creation), introduction to Earth by extraterrestrials, or evolution; which by the way is a theory people try to treat as an absolute truth.

@Ron_C et al We never forced religion on them.
Psssst This is not about religion, if anything it is about the total absence of religion.

@rexacoracofalipitorius Children believe all sorts of crazy stuff. I don’t expect them to know any better, since they are children. That could go for adults too in many areas; being a follower because it is popular.

@tom_g Didn’t we already cover this in your question about unjustified beliefs and children?
Did not catch that question, though I am sure there are some unjustified beliefs in their people believe are justified same as unjustified beliefs that was not mentioned in there that children are being indoctrinated to believe as real.

@ETpro I’d explain that I base my beliefs on real evidence, evidence that is verifiable, repeatable, and predictive.
Real and undisputed evidence says man came from where (humor me since we are taking extraterrestrials off the table)?

@Symbeline How do we know there ain’t? Unlike God though, we need proof that aliens are real, as faith is not part of science or discovery.
Well that would be subject matter for a different thread. Wouldn’t other things need to past the same mettle? To simply point at it would be no truer than if you heard a gunshot down an alley, and when you peeked around seen a man with a smoking gun in his hand standing over another man laying on the ground, and assuming the one with the gun attacked and shot the one fallen.

… I personally believe makes God to be made up. I’m certainly not doing it on purpose to be an asshole, but sometimes I think the only reason some hardcore religious folk don’t believe in aliens or vampires is because The Bible says it ain’t real. I can respect your honesty in admitting you do not believe in God, better to be on one side of the fence or the other, not straddling the middle. I also know many do not believe in vampires because one was never captured, tagged, photographed, or a victim found with vampire bites or whatever it is that turns people into vampires…..then again you could say the same for Big Foot, the Loch Ness Monster, and werewolves.

@Hypocrisy_Central You make a common error is suggesting that I am “taking extraterrestrials off the table.” because I ask for evidence before believing. I am not. I am simply refusing to believe they came here and created humanity when there is no evidence (the His-story channel notwithstanding) that any such thing ever occurred. Real and undisputed (by any credible science) evidence says we came from an evolutionary chain of over 3 billion years long; and beginning with the first, most simple single-cell life in the sea. We can trace the DNA chain back. There is no point where a sudden influx of alien DNA causes humanity to veer off from other terran life.

@Hypocrisy_Central To simply point at it would be no truer than if you heard a gunshot down an alley, and when you peeked around seen a man with a smoking gun in his hand standing over another man laying on the ground, and assuming the one with the gun attacked and shot the one fallen.

Yeah, but something obviously happened. Someone’s on the ground, and some guy has a gun. Something happened, there is evidence. But don’t think for a second that I’m defending Hollywood aliens, because I’m not. (is there even ANY proof that aliens visited here, that is, proof which is not a hoax, or bullshit?)
I’m sure other life forms out there exist, even if it’s some moss or a mushroom growing somewhere on some other planet. It’s as much a life form as the man on the ground who may not even have been shot. We won’t know till we check, but there’s something there to check, am I right? There are possibilities and elements, and therefore, theories, based on what we know, but other than social sciences and history, what does God have? I agree that this belongs in another subject, but since you elaborated…aliens are plausible based on reason, but based on reason, God is not.
I also agree pointing it out doesn’t make it any more real, but it’s the same with God, and even more so, because I don’t believe faith to be a proper tool to prove something. I certainly do not say that something cannot exist if it has no proof that we can find; but with my puny human mind, I can only reason with what I know to make sense. In this case, undiscovered wild life is as plausible as aliens, while God to me, is the same thing as the tooth fairy. There is a difference between the emotional part of man, and the thinking part of man.

I can respect your honesty in admitting you do not believe in God, better to be on one side of the fence or the other, not straddling the middle. I also know many do not believe in vampires because one was never captured, tagged, photographed, or a victim found with vampire bites or whatever it is that turns people into vampires…..then again you could say the same for Big Foot, the Loch Ness Monster, and werewolves.

But, neither has God. :p So if aliens have never been captured, they don’t automatically exist? I’m not going to defend vampires and werewolves, because those are of the fantastical thread, and any actual serious belief that might have once existed on these things have been disproved by medical science. (diseases and the like) Man those things are so ridiculous, compared to even God.
Things like God and vampires and unicorns are built in ways that they could never be real when you consider what knowledge has shown us, that is, what we have to work with. also, in vampire myth, vampires are incapable of having a reflection, whether that is in the mirror or a camera.
However, I’m always ready to consider that what I totally don’t believe in can exist. I don’t believe God exists, but that doesn’t mean I’m right. I hope that makes sense. There is so little we actually know, in between the Loch Ness legend or deities. A theory about the Loch Ness guy is that he’s a dinosaur who escaped the ice age, or whatever other theories there are about how they all died. Okay fine, but, so did dinosaurs have a natural life span of several centuries long? Problem here is, we’re comparing creatures to a deity. They are not the same. There are plenty of animals and insects we haven’t discovered, some probably long extinct already. :/ But God is some big blob in space who just popped up out of nowhere. How can that even happen? To show you I’m not biased though, I pretty much think the Big Bang theory is bullshit too, because that also makes no sense. Not unless that theory says that there was something BEFORE said giant space kablooie that CAUSED it. There probably is though, I’m not a scientist here.
I’ve never carried my opinions as facts, but I do weigh in the realism of things VS psychology and what social science has shown people to be like. In return to the actual question you have, this is why if my kid still believed in alien conspiracies at 17, I’d wonder what the hell I did wrong, whereas I couldn’t say the same for God, whether I raised him with God, or if he found God on his own. I mean to me there is no God and the idea makes no sense, but it’s an accepted idea in society, so it becomes a norm.
Well I know this isn’t about religion, but you replied to me and that’s where all your comments went. Therefore, I felt the need to establish the difference which I personally see when it comes to scientific theories VS spiritual beliefs. For the record, I’m not bashing God or Christianity; I think the same of Zeus, Wiccans, Asian religions or the Grand Manitou.

but not Odin XD

Sorry…but I have to post ONE Viking related thing, at least once a day. It needs to get done! :D

@Hypocrisy_Central That could go for adults too in many areas; being a follower because it is popular.

Hence the popularity of theism. But no, that does not go for adults. Children get a pass on believing crazy things and doing dumb stuff because they are children. They don’t know any better, but we do attempt to correct them, and we expect that they will learn to do better. We supervise them so that they don’t wind up victims of their own behavior or beliefs.
Adults are expected to know better. Except for the subset of adults that is considered of “diminished capacity” under the law, we hold adults responsible for the results of their actions.
If an adult child acted that way I would mock and jeer in the way I have specified. If I cared about the person I might suggest therapy. Then again, I might not.

I am not an atheist.

The idea that the human race was genetically engineered by off planet beings is the
subject of works by Zecharia Sitchin, William Bramley and Erick Von Daniken (to name a few.)

You may not agree with what they say, but the idea has been kicked around for
ages.

I never discount any revolutionary ideas that children come up with…they usually know
more than anyone else. They still are open to their own genetic memories. I would
probably ask them what led them to this conclusion and then ask them if they wanted
to explore this possibility through doing some research, writing a story about it or reading a book or two. The best way to shut down a child’s creativity is to tell them they are “crazy” for believing something and forcing them to believe what you do.

And in the end I would probably say, “You know, I have often wondered if there is any truth to that, sweetheart. Let’s go get some ice cream.”

@DarlingRhadamanthus “I never discount any revolutionary ideas that children come up with…they usually know more than anyone else.”

Do they now?

@ETpro*I am simply refusing to believe they came here and created humanity when there is no evidence (the His-story channel notwithstanding) that any such thing ever occurred.* Let me clear something up, I am not suggesting extraterrestrials created life here, just the idea that they planted humans here; similar to when re replace animal life to other areas after our urban sprawl invaded their home territory and got in our way. They would be to us as we are to bears, foxes, etc. I believe they are aware of us but are not sure what we done to them. They just wake up in a different area than something traumatic (the dart in the butt) happened, and even if they were aware of any tracking device would not know it was a tracking device. Our tracking device would be rather clumsy and crude to anything an extraterrestrial with the capability to travel light years to get here would have. They could have something we have no technology to detect (unless they were as clumsy with their tracking devices as we have now).

There are possibilities and elements, and therefore, theories, based on what we know, but other than social sciences and history, what does God have? I agree that this belongs in another subject, but since you elaborated…aliens are plausible based on reason, but based on reason, God is not. Using science to show the plausibility or even the existence of God would be another question, and I will leave it as that.

@Symbeline However, I’m always ready to consider that what I totally don’t believe in can exist. I don’t believe God exists, but that doesn’t mean I’m right. I hope that makes sense. To many people surprise, I do follow you on that. The best way I can respond to that is that oil, like God, always existed under the ground, even when no one had any notion it was there. They had not the means to know it was there and thus find it. Being God is spirit (you can even say ultra-dimensional), you have to tune your spirit to detect it. In crude example mediums that supposedly contact the dead, they have to get on the same wave length, or something, with those in the afterlife. As I say, it is a crude example of what a relationship with the Father actually is.

In return to the actual question you have, this is why if my kid still believed in alien conspiracies at 17, I’d wonder what the hell I did wrong, whereas I couldn’t say the same for God, whether I raised him with God, or if he found God on his own. What if it were communism? What if he looked around at how people operated the free enterprise system and deemed it corrupt and flawed because some people have way more than they could spent in 10 lifetimes, while others don’t even have enough to make it week-to-week? He felt a system where everything was exactly equal was the way to go. You never thought him that but he came to that off the preponderance he seen. Would you felt you did something wrong because he did not think democracy and free enterprise was the best thing since sliced bread? (You are one of my favs because you can argue your point with some logic apart from the party line).

@DarlingRhadamanthus Adults are expected to know better. Yet many don’t. They will follow a hair brained idea because the next 150 adults believe it, and they are afraid to be thought of as having diminished capacity. Popular numbers never made anyone right. At one point all the smart people, and those of power thought the world was flat.

@Hypocrisy_Central Do you not realize that it is a great leap from saying that such a thing is possible to saying you believe it is what happened? Why would you believe such a thing when there isn’t a shred of credible evidence it occurred?

Where is my spirit, @Hypocrisy_Central, and is the tuning peg on the front, like a radio, or on top like a guitar?

“In crude example mediums that supposedly contact the dead, they have to get on the same wave length, or something, with those in the afterlife. As I say, it is a crude example of what a relationship with the Father actually is.”

I couldn’t agree more.

considering that mediums are all scammers and frauds…

Pretty much where I was going with that.

@ETpro @Hypocrisy_Central Do you not realize that it is a great leap from saying that such a thing is possible to saying you believe it is what happened? In my heart I know how man got here. Using secular logic humans being planted here by extraterrestrials is plausible, the same as we relocate animal life here for their protection or the convenience of the urban community. I am not saying I believe that is how man got here. My question was if atheist parents would consider the plausibility of it as much as they believe humans evolved from some sub-ape, other primate, or primate-like being (maybe even a mushroom for all I care)?

@Seek_Kolinahr Where is my spirit, @Hypocrisy_Central, and is the tuning peg on the front, like a radio, or on top like a guitar? I will put it this way, and let you decide which knob you need to turn. To turn the knob on a guitar is to sweeten the sound, you already here and know the sound is there. To tune the knob on a radio you believe the sound is there, or should be broadcasting and you are trying to find it. If you do not believe there is anything being broadcast, such as there is no station in the 1st place, you won’t try to tune in to anything.

As long as one believes in the arrogance of man being the s*** and only s*** in the whole universe one would never grasp the concept of black magic, even though it has been done for centuries, and not just for bilking fools of their money.

@Hypocrisy_Central “As long as one believes in the arrogance of man being the s*** and only s*** in the whole universe…”

On the contrary. I would say that instead, it is the height of arrogance to claim that man could only exist as the result of a god’s creation, and that the entire universe was purposefully created by a god, solely for the benefit and use of man.

@glacial On the contrary. I would say that instead, it is the height of arrogance to claim that man could only exist as the result of a god’s creation, and that the entire universe was purposefully created by a god, solely for the benefit and use of man.
That is not the premise of the question, had it been I would have said that those gods you spoke of are melted down for their gold, laying waste somewhere, or on display in a museum. God on the other hand, is not. Furthermore, God did not put man here for man’s usage and pleasure but His. He may let man do what he is doing for now, but that will end one day.

Seeing you did not disagree you believe man is here just to show how smart and powerful he is over other men, and who is the most powerful and dies with the most toys did a better job while he was here?

@Hypocrisy_Central This is not the first time that you have (I assume deliberately) misinterpreted my writing “god” as if I meant “some group of specific gods that could not possibly include the Christian god”. Let me clear this up for you: when I used the phrase “a god”, I was speaking of the one that you worship. As opposed to the ones that you do not.

I take your point about man being created for the purpose of your god’s pleasure. It is still arrogance to believe that mankind is the sole reason for the creation of the universe.

“Seeing you did not disagree you believe man is here just to show how smart and powerful he is over other men, and who is the most powerful and dies with the most toys did a better job while he was here?”

I literally have no idea what this means. What is the question?

Black magic? Srsly?

@glacial @Hypocrisy_Central This is not the first time that you have (I assume deliberately) misinterpreted my writing “god” as if I meant “some group of specific gods that could not possibly include the Christian god”. Let me be clear, when you say god it is like trying to compare a plastic toy pistol to a real Colt .45; one is great for looks and jokes, the other can actually do what it was intended. You can say _”Christian god_” all you want, it is nothing I recognize and won’t even dishonor God by even dignifying it as even being plausible in existence.

Again, the question is about using secular logic on the plausibility man, aside from God was introduced on earth by extraterrestrials the same fashion we relocate animals, if you don’t want to agree and believe we came from the animals, just say it and we can be done with it.

I am trying very hard to understand your nearly illegible second paragraph. What I think that you are saying is this:

Atheists, because they do not believe that man was created by a god, must therefore believe that either (1) man was introduced on Earth by extraterrestrials or (2) man “came from the animals”, by which I assume you mean that man is a product of evolution.

Assuming that is what you are saying, this is my response: I don’t personally believe that man was introduced on Earth by extraterrestrials. I know that man is the product of evolution (not “from the animals”, because we are animals). However, there are probably some atheists who think it is possible that both an alien introduction and evolution could be a plausible origin story for man’s existence on Earth.

I’ve tried to answer your question, based on what I think you are asking. If you were asking something different, by all means please try again.

As to this business:
“You can say _”Christian god_” all you want, it is nothing I recognize and won’t even dishonor God by even dignifying it as even being plausible in existence.”

If you refuse to acknowledge the fact that atheists don’t honour your god, then I honestly don’t understand why you repeatedly try to engage in conversations about religion with us. We can have no common language if you hold this attitude, and without common language we cannot communicate. And indeed, it is very, very hard to comunicate with you.

@glacial I know that man is the product of evolution (not “from the animals”, because we are animals).
I redirect, “dumb animals”, as in those who are not sentient, unintelligent, can’t speak, reason, calculate. That reacts off innate instinct, those type of animals. That wasn’t so hard, was it?

If you refuse to acknowledge the fact that atheists don’t honour your god, then I honestly don’t understand why you repeatedly try to engage in conversations about religion with us.
Believe me, I know better than that. If I ask a question of atheist it is totally from a secular view. Live starting here by way of extraterrestrials is as far from biblical standards as east is to west. It is, IMO, closer to plausibility to the theory of evolution, and it is a theory, which is also secular. The only reason God or religion gets introduced into the conversation is when an atheist brings it there, and if they do incorrectly then I must say something just as if I put out there in the open what you believe was a misrepresentation of atheism.

Thank you for finally coming up with a position, any position is better than none, lets see if the rest can follow your example.

@Hypocrisy_Central: “and it is a theory”

Damn straight! Isn’t that great?

And don’t get me wrong. I suspect why you stated this was that you are attempting to apply the other meaning of “theory” rather than the scientific one. Warning – if you are, please stop now.

@Hypocrisy_Central If humans were put here by extraterrestials, why is there a contiguous evolutionary fossil and dna chain leading backward from humans to the earliest single-cell prokaryotes? It doesn’t make good sense. Apply Occam’s Razor.

If humans were engineered by aliens or even god, it doesn’t preclude that evolution was part of the process that makes us what we are today. Then you would also have to ask about the evolution of our alien modifiers. Either way, god is not necessary. My wife and I are born-again atheists and our children and grand-children follow that ethic. We are also proof that atheists can be charitable, and moral without the taint of religious exclusivity.

@ETpro @Hypocrisy_Central If humans were put here by extraterrestials, why is there a contiguous evolutionary fossil and dna chain leading backward from humans to the earliest single-cell prokaryotes? Pointblank, you said that to say what, humans came up through some branch spawned by a single celled organism that over eons of time eventually produced man? Is that the position you are taking by your statement?

@Ron_C If humans were engineered by aliens or even god, it doesn’t preclude that evolution was part of the process that makes us what we are today. At least something we can agree on, that evolution can be part of God’s process even if not the way man think.

Either way, god is not necessary. True, those man-made idols of wood, stone, and metal never could do anything but sit where they were placed. Certainly they had no power like God.

We are also proof that atheists can be charitable, and moral without the taint of religious exclusivity. I won’t say you can’t, I will say no one has gotten empathy, charity, forgiveness, compassion, etc. from evolution.

”I will say no one has gotten empathy, charity, forgiveness, compassion, etc. from evolution.”
That is why you fail.
All of these things increase the a social group’s survivability and are thus favoured by evolution.

@Hypocrisy_Central What if it were communism?

Well that’s different, but goes along the same lines. The same line as in, being born and raised in a society where whatever defines it is the norm. Not sure how communism is explained to people who live in it and how they come to accept it, but my guess is, were I born in a communist country and had a kid, probably the same idealistic regiment that makes it justifiable would be followed and justified by me. I suppose if my kid thought different, he’d be labeled as some kind of terrorist or something. XD
But a lot of people who live in these places move away from the countries to other places, and maybe I’m saying it because I wasn’t born into communism, but if I lived in a place like that, I would take my family and move out. This is a case where I wouldn’t think my kid needs help if he thinks some other system might be better, and not just because I’d be inclined to agree. Communism and other social systems are seen and lived, aliens as are commonly defined come from TV. There is a difference between the two. This is a bit like comparing God to oil. :p

@ragingloli All of these things increase the a social group’s survivability and are thus favoured by evolution.
I think the “fail” part comes from making an assumption off supposedly scientific face with no fact to back it up. Are you saying that a lioness will feel remorse for taking down a week old giraffe because she is depriving it’s mother her offspring, even though she had to because it is food for her cubs? When sea lions come to shore they work it out on who gets to breed what cow, they don’t fight it out and the strong boinks the cow and the weaker, loser clears out? The eagles rebuke the barn owl for murder when he swoops down and snatches a field mouse? Surely if empathy, remorse, compassion was a natural and automatic part of evolution other animals on this planet would have acquired it in a palpable sense and not some crude rudimentary fashion where if exhibited by humans would classify them as mentally deficient.

Oh please. Humans do not feel remorse either about the mass slaughter of farm animals. When they swat a fly. Step on a bug.

^^ Humans do not feel remorse either about the mass slaughter of farm animals. When they swat a fly. Step on a bug. I could take that seriously if you were speaking for all humans. PETA, the Humane Society, those guys featured in Whale Wars, or who made the movie “The Cove” would certainly disagree. ^^

yeah, but those are not humans, they are libtards and commie treehugging subhumans.

@Hypocrisy_Central Of course that is the position I am taking. That has been the scientific consensus now for over a century. To argue against it without presenting evidence it’s wrong is as absurd as holding out for a geocentric solar system or a flat earth just based on your own opinion that’s the correct model. Even the Catholic Church has finally admitted Darwin was right.

@ETpro Well, you go right ahead and believe you evolved from some sort of animal (the dumb ones who are not sentient, or lack any real intelligence). Guess mankind (of which you are) by popular believe (which isn’t always true) were lucky to win the lotto, seeing some microbes were too dumb to stop being one-celled organism or anything higher than a garden slug. I will go on knowing I came from something better.

Isn’t it curious that you share most of your genes with said slugs and microbes, and how odd it is that the higher up the evolutionary chain you go, the more genes that you share, till we get to the point of well above 90% gene duplication with chimpanzees. God was very economical in His engineering. He sure makes it look just as if there is an evolutionary sequence of events. I guess He just did this to test your faith.

@Hypocrisy_Central You have a profound misunderstanding of evolution. The fact that a few microbes in a new and hostile environment got very lucky in the genetic mutations (most of which are disastrous but a few of which confer a new survival advantage) does nothing to cancel the original species the new one emerged from. Are you a young Earth proponent, or just unaware of actual evolutionary theory?

@LostInParadise It’s actually 96% and humans and the great apes emerged separately from a common ancestor about 13 million years ago.

@Hypocrisy_Central This article on the complete mapping of the genome of a 700,000 year old horse found with DNA preserved in Canadian permafrost might help clear up some common misconceptions about evolution. Pastors, even though they often are well educated to know better, sow the seeds of misunderstanding of the subject as they carefully construct straw men such as “If men came from monkeys, why do we still have monkeys?”

Let’s look at why that’s a straw man fallacy. No credible evolutionary biologists says or believes men came from monkeys. Instead, they assert that it appears that humans and great apes both split away from a now extinct common ancestor around 13 million years ago. Monkeys are nowhere in that assertion. Further, there is no reason to assume that when a new species splits away from its ancestor species, the ancestral one must suddenly die out. In the article, you will see that the fossil record indicates horses split away from donkeys around 4 million years ago. But that didn’t cause donkeys to disappear. We still have donkeys.

Under human intervention through selective breeding, the modern horse split away from wild horses around 50,000 years ago. Modern horses, much like the menagerie of dogs man has bred from their common wolf ancestor, experienced unusually accelerated evolution due to human intervention through selective breeding. But even today, Przewalski’s horses are still around, and they are direct descendents of early wild horses. And until we can gather enough helicopter-flying hunters to wipe them out, chihuahua’s have failed to end the age or the wolf.