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Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

What would you do, bullies vs. wheelchair man inspired by similar real event?

Asked by Hypocrisy_Central (21139 points ) June 25th, 2013

If you observed a boy (13ish) with his father who is in a wheelchair, and 3–4 boys (14–15ish) arrive on the scene and start harassing then punching the younger boy. When his father rolls over to try and help his son, the attacking boys dump the father from his wheelchair to prevent him from aiding his son, though they did not strike him. Providing you could do anything, what course of action would you take?

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34 Answers

augustlan's avatar

I’d intervene, physically if necessary. First, I’d yell at them and let them know I’m calling the cops. Hopefully, that’s enough to send them packing. If not, I’m jumping in. Like an idiot.

WestRiverrat's avatar

I would be prepared to shoot the 3–4 boys if they didn’t stop and drop or run when I told them to stop or I would shoot.

Katniss's avatar

What the hell? Again I ask, what is wrong with people????
I would have jumped in and done what I could to help, right after I called the police.

CWOTUS's avatar

First I suppose I’d watch for long enough to make a judgment as to who was in the wrong. Just because you posit “3–4 boys arrive on the scene and start to bully the 13-year old” doesn’t mean that this is the first time all of these folks have seen each other. This could very well be a continuation of something started by the “victims” that you see.

Secondly, I’d have to admire the tactic, at least from a strategic point of view. It effectively and non-violently immobilizes a secondary adversary in the fight (if it’s a fight that we’re talking about, after all), and it’s a tactic that wouldn’t occur to everyone, I think. I’d be interested to see what other tactics they bring to this altercation.

If it got violent to the point where the younger / smaller kid was being overwhelmed or actually harmed by the group, who were not letting up, then I would certainly intervene, with some kind of stand-off weapon if one were available: a baseball bat, walking stave or some other kind of force multiplier. I would probably want to have the cops rolling before I started that, though.

WestRiverrat's avatar

@CWOTUS dumping someone out of their wheelchair is a violent act, it is felony battery in this state. Depending on what condition has them in the wheelchair, it can be life threatening.

ReindeerMoon1's avatar

Where are you that something like this happens and you’re the ONLY one who could intervene?
I’d dial 911 on my cell phone hold it up for all to see and yell, “Hey! I just called the cops!”

SuperMouse's avatar

Considering my children and husband could potentially experience this situation there is no doubt in my mind that I would intervene. I would call 911, I would do what I have to do to stop it, physically intervening if necessary, then help the guy back into his chair.

My fifteen year-old saw this question and said he would take a picture of the boys, call 911, then record himself intervening.

downtide's avatar

I’d call the police first, then I’d intervene physically.

augustlan's avatar

@CWOTUS You wouldn’t immediately stop the kids from punching the other kid/tipping over the dude in the wheelchair, because… they might deserve it? Even if they did start it, that doesn’t make it okay for it to continue.

I don’t know which I’m more upset by, the thought that you might not intervene at all or the thought that @WestRiverrat is prepared to shoot someone over it.

Michael_Huntington's avatar

Are they hopped up on milk-plus? Do they speak Nadsat?

LornaLove's avatar

I would intervene and call the police.

JLeslie's avatar

I would call 911 and snap photos. I would physically intervene if I believed I could actually make an impact on the situation. If I could get the young boy away so he could run I would probably try. 3–4 14 year old boys all at once could probably kill me of they wanted to. That age they might be before puberty or after which could make a big difference in their height, strength, etc. I would at minimum yell at them and tell them I was calling the cops. I would yell for help if other people were around.

My God, why would this even happen? What a horrible scenerio.

@augustlan Don’t you think if someone drew a gun they would stop? Not that I am in favor of people carrying guns, I’m not. But, 3 or 4 boys could kill the young boy and his dad.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

(Those who would intervene)
• How many of the boys would you attempt to take on to aid those being attacked?
• If the older boys tried to punch or kick you, would you use equal force?
• If the cops showed up when you had the upper hand on one of the older boys and wanted to be sticklers on the law and arrest you because you punched or kicked a minor, what would you say or do then?
• If there were a defense object to use, broom handle, bat, golf club, how far would you go to protect the boy and his father or how far would you go to protect your own health?

majorrich's avatar

I would wheel over, but would probably only get dumped out of my chair too. The difference is I am prepared to defend myself with lethal and less lethal means. (a can of OC attached to my chair.) If one doesn’t hold them off, I can and probably would continue to defend myself. Always call 911 before committing to this course of action.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

(a can of OC attached to my chair.) Pepper spray?

majorrich's avatar

Yes Ma’am. I had to get certified before I could carry it, it can bring things to a sudden stop, unless the wind is blowing the wrong way.

JLeslie's avatar

@Hypocrisy_Central I thought about trying to find a stick or something to hit them with, but honestly, I would be afraid they would get it from me. Hell, I was afraid already to intervene, because I think they could kill me. Me dying or getting very injured does not help the boy and his father, but possibly someone stepping in would be enough to make the boys stop and run off.

nofurbelowsbatgirl's avatar

Oh I’d definitely intervene. First I’d scream “HEY!!!” Which usually stops anyone even my dogs and then if no one listens I’ll scream my regular oxy moron statement “DON’T!!” then I pause for half a second and scream “STOP!!”

If they did not stop I would call the authorities, you know though I never carry my cell phone when I’m out I’m totally guilty for that, but I am going to yell at them that what they are doing is wrong. In fact I did it last week to a 15yr old kid who was beating up another younger kid in the school playground on recess.

I happened to have the dogs with me who are great to scare bullies also. My one dog you just have to utter the word “speak” under your breathe and he goes into the police dog stance complete with fierce barking. Its a protection thing my husband taught him.

Anyway I screamed at the kid to let the other kid go, and the kid screamed it was none of my business and I yelled that it was my business because they were on school property and underage so he should either let the kid go and leave him alone because he was upsetting my dog and (cue dog) trust me he didn’t want that, at this point my dog is barking and foaming at the mouth basically, then students and teachers started coming around (I don’t know where they were to begin with) but they took both kids in. So yes I have I big mouth and I’d intervene. :/

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

Attack dog….I wonder if “releasing the Kraken” on them would be considered an assault with a deadly weapon IE, the attack dog?

augustlan's avatar

@JLeslie One hopes that pulling a gun would stop them, but if they didn’t stop…would it then be okay to shoot them?

JLeslie's avatar

@augustlan I am torn on this. They need to be stopped. I really think you or I would have a very hard time stopping them if they really wanted to beat that kid to a pulp. I assume they have some fear of being caught and jailed, and if a witness, one of us, made it obvious we were there they would hopefully run. But, if they keep going, and the child’s life is in danger, and drawing the gun was not enough, a shot in the air would be ok with me. If they persist, shooting one of them also might be ok with me. The trouble in a fight is the wrong person could get shot. Anyone winding up seriously harmed or dead would be horrific. But, it does matter that they started it and will not stop. Even if the boy targeted did something previously and this is a revenge attack; people can’t go around taking revenge like the mafia, being vigilantes.

When an employee in the grocery store I shop in starting knifing a bunch of people, a customer ran to his car for his gun. Once the man with the knife saw the gun he stopped.

I really don’t like the idea of the wild west days, but any physical violence is very upsetting to me.

nofurbelowsbatgirl's avatar

I’m in Canada. Here apparently the law is that you use a much force as reasonably necessary, so if some guy comes to my house and tries to rob me with a knife and I bash his brains in with a baseball bat then I’m probably facing manslaughter charges, but if I push him out the door and knock him unconscious then that is different.

If I had of let my dog go, the only thing that would of happened is he would of run away. lol. He’s has neurological problems, and although he is very good in some areas like some commands (like the barking command he excels at), but he has never meant any harm to anyone or anything. He is like the reincarnation of Rainman in a dog! :)

augustlan's avatar

@JLeslie If the kid’s life was in imminent danger, I would agree with shooting. But @WestRiverrat didn’t specify that condition.

JLeslie's avatar

@augustlan I agree I would have to feel the child was in imminent danger, being beaten up by three or four boys is pretty immenent most likely, but not definitely. I would have to actually see what is happening. It wouldn’t take much for the kid to be held down, kicked in the head, fall back and hit his head. All sorts of bad can happen. People can be brain damaged or die just from a small push where someone falls and hits their head when there was no real mal intent at all. Maybe I just am not used to fights. The OP said the kids are all punching the boy. That’s the same level to me as a guy with a knife.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

When an employee in the grocery store I shop in starting knifing a bunch of people, a customer ran to his car for his gun. Once the man with the knife saw the gun he stopped. A classic example why the right to bare arms should not be infringed as much as it is. As with Columbine, VT, Newtown, Conn., and other such incidents, the gunman/woman has to stop shooting people and defend themselves when someone appears to be ready to shoot at them. Had there been someone packing heat in the aforementioned incidences lives would have been saved.

JLeslie's avatar

@Hypocrisy_Central Thing is, if they all had guns, I don’t think the bad guy would drop his weapon so fast. I think there would be a shoot out.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

^^ But the innocent victims will have the opportunity to run instead of being ducks in a shooting gallery because the gunman/woman was not distracted trying to save their own neck.^^

JLeslie's avatar

@Hypocrisy_Central Like I said, I’m torn. I can see both arguments. When I lived in cities that were not gun oriented I never would have been in favor of having a gun. When I lived in cities where everyone is a gun lover, then I understand why people want a gun for defense.

nofurbelowsbatgirl's avatar

In my city we do OK. We are not allowed to carry guns for defense. Usually the people with guns in my city are angry and disturbed and don’t need a gun, the others may have guns but actually follow the rules and don’t use it as a tool of power and control. I mean there are guns in my city but they aren’t common. Guns are everywhere it isn’t going to matter where you are I personally don’t think there is a right or wrong way to go about it. They ban alcohol in Alaska but that doesn’t stop people from drinking it. We allow alcohol and that doesn’t stop people from drinking and driving. Where do you draw the line other than what we have already done.

JLeslie's avatar

@nofurbelowsbatgirl Actually, I am pretty sure drunk driving accidents went down when drunk driving laws got tougher. Alaska is one of those states that is going to have a lot of guns. You can’t compare it to an average densely populated suburb.

majorrich's avatar

Most (if not all) Concealed Carry License laws allow the holder to carry a weapon for self defense and, almost as an afterthought, to protect the life of someone who is in direct peril of losing their life. It is not nor never has been a means to Deputize a civilian who is untrained in law enforcement. People who would solve our scenario with firearms first may have lost sight of this. We would intervene on the boy and fathers behalf at our own peril and are authorized to use lethal force only if our own life or the life of those whom we have extended protection is directly in peril. That is the reason I carry a non-lethal option to use first to protect myself should my negotiation skills fail. Being realistic, I also keep a lethal option should everything turn to poopoo. The last thing I would have happen is by my well-intentioned intervention is to get myself injured or killed. Being unable to flee forces me to be more aggressive in my self protection than most.

nofurbelowsbatgirl's avatar

@JLeslie I understand I’m not saying that statistics won’t go down. I’m just saying there is no way to eliminate those things like guns and drinking and driving that’s all. Because we can imply as many or as little laws as we want but there will always be someone who doesn’t like to follow the rules. That’s all I mean.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

It would appear when the rubber meets the road, who had the most fire power wins. If anyone went to aid the boy and his father than the thugs bulled a gun out of their waist they are free to have their way until someone showed with a weapon of equal or greater power or they fled once they heard the sirens waling.

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