Social Question

ETpro's avatar

Will lower taxes, smaller government and deregulation solve every problem we confront?

Asked by ETpro (34605points) July 2nd, 2013

Our real tax rate is lower than it has been in over 60 years. Yet our problems, if anything, have grown larger. Our infrastructure is crumbling. Perhaps we just haven’t cut taxes and infrastructure spending enough yet. How low must taxes go before bridges repair themselves automagically, and pothole filled roads repave themselves. How many teachers do we need to lay off and children do we need to deny Headstart to before our education system shifts itself into high gear?

E. J. Dionne’s oped in The Washington Post looks at how the right wing today, while often pointing to Edmund Burke as one of their heroes, has lost sight of his message; and in doing so, lost sight of real solutions to the problems we face. Do you agree? If not, where is he wrong?

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15 Answers

marinelife's avatar

Not even a little.

jerv's avatar

All you really need to know is that everyone except for extremist Conservatives are always wrong about everything; so wrong that if they ever agree with you, you must reverse your own position on an issue.

elbanditoroso's avatar

We’ve been playing this game since the Reagan years – ask yourself, what’s the track record? Has it worked, even remotely?

Being Republican means never having to say you’re sorry.

rojo's avatar

I posted this on another link but it is relevant Article in that it kind of points toward it not really mattering in the long no-so-long run.

ragingloli's avatar

Will stabbing you stop your bleeding?

Espiritus_Corvus's avatar

Look, the Democrats tax and spend and the Republicans borrow and spend. Government costs money. Smaller government? Niether of the dominant parties have come anywhere near this goal. The popluation grows as will government services. I personally think taxing and spending—although in these times considered an American ideological abomination and anyone who is for this method risks becoming a social pariah—is better than borrowing and spending. Using existing money is always far better than borrowing at interest. But, as I understand it, we are beyond that now.

Due to this insane policy, made into an institution by succeeding administrations since the Reagan administration’s “Supply-side Economics,” and it’s promised “Trickle Down Theory” (this is only the latest, but also the most prolonged exercise of this economic falacy). The main characteristic of this theory is that if you reduce the tax burden of the upper class, they will invest their resultant surplus of capital back into the economy and produce products which people would then buy, thereby creating jobs which would benefit the middle and working classes, who would then buy the products and keep the cycle going.

Never happened. The wealthiest instead took their money abroad along with the jobs and broke the predicted chain of economic events. The result is that the middle and working classes are now in worse shape than we have been since the 1930s. But in order to maintain electability, Repoublicans still refuse to entertain any idea of paying the government’s expenses through taxation of the wealthiest of its citizens, leaving only one option: Borrow and spend—a method that has put us heavily in debt to a country with an opposing idealogy and weakened us immeasurably. The irony of it all.

Here’s what some people have had to say about this strange idea:

After leaving the Presidency, Lyndon B. Johnson, a Democrat, alleged, “Republicans simply don’t know how to manage the economy. They’re so busy operating the trickle-down theory, giving the richest corporations the biggest break, that the whole thing goes to hell in a handbasket.”

“Mr. David Stockman (Reagan’s Director of the Office of Management and Budget) has said that supply-side economics was merely a cover for the trickle-down approach to economic policy—what an older and less elegant generation called the horse-and-sparrow theory: ‘If you feed the horse enough oats, some will pass through to the road for the sparrows.’” ~ Economist John Kenneth Galbraith. Galbraith claimed that the horse and sparrow theory was partly to blame for the Panic of 1896.

In 1896, Democratic Presidential candidate William Jennings Bryan made reference to trickle-down theory in his famous “Cross of Gold” speech:

“There are two ideas of government. There are those who believe that if you just legislate to make the well-to-do prosperous, that their prosperity will leak through on those below. The Democratic idea has been that if you legislate to make the masses prosperous their prosperity will find its way up and through every class that rests upon it.”

In the 1992 presidential election, Independent candidate Ross Perot called trickle-down economics “political voodoo” and “vodoo economics.”

Proponents of Keynesian economics and related theories often criticize tax rate cuts for the wealthy as being “trickle down,” arguing tax cuts directly targeting those with less income would be more economically stimulative. Keynesians generally argue for broad fiscal policies that are directed across the entire economy, not toward one specific group.

In New Zealand, Labour Party MP Damien O’Connor has, in the Labour Party campaign launch video for the 2011 general election, called trickle-down economics “the rich pissing on the poor.”

A 2012 study by the Tax Justice Network indicates that wealth of the super-rich does not trickle down to improve the economy, but tends to be amassed and sheltered in tax havens with a negative effect on the tax bases of the home economy.

And even so, our government continues with this stupidity anyway.

~References for above include Wikipedia and the Encyclopedia Britannica.

********

The article below describes in detail how the latest incarnation of Supply-side Economics/Trickle Down Theory was born, sold, and implimented; complete with plots and subplots. It is very interesting.

Published on Monday, January 26, 2009
by CommonDreams.org

Two Santa Clauses or How The Republican Party Has Conned America for Thirty Years
by Thom Hartmann

This weekend, House Republican leader John Boehner played out the role of Jude Wanniski on NBC’s “Meet The Press.”

Odds are you’ve never heard of Jude, but without him Reagan never would have become a “successful” president, Republicans never would have taken control of the House or Senate, Bill Clinton never would have been impeached, and neither George Bush would have been president.

When Barry Goldwater went down to ignominious defeat in 1964, most Republicans felt doomed (among them the then-28-year-old Wanniski). Goldwater himself, although uncomfortable with the rising religious right within his own party and the calls for more intrusion in people’s bedrooms, was a diehard fan of Herbert Hoover’s economic worldview.

In Hoover’s world (and virtually all the Republicans since reconstruction with the exception of Teddy Roosevelt), market fundamentalism was a virtual religion. Economists from Ludwig von Mises to Friedrich Hayek to Milton Friedman had preached that government could only make a mess of things economic, and the world of finance should be left to the Big Boys – the Masters of the Universe, as they sometimes called themselves – who ruled Wall Street and international finance.

Hoover enthusiastically followed the advice of his Treasury Secretary, multimillionaire Andrew Mellon, who said in 1931: “Liquidate labor, liquidate stocks, liquidate the farmers, liquidate real estate. Purge the rottenness out of the system. High costs of living and high living will come down… enterprising people will pick up the wrecks from less competent people.”

Thus, the Republican mantra was: “Lower taxes, reduce the size of government, and balance the budget.”

The only problem with this ideology from the Hooverite perspective was that the Democrats always seemed like the bestowers of gifts, while the Republicans were seen by the American people as the stingy Scrooges, bent on making the lives of working people harder all the while making richer the very richest. This, Republican strategists since 1930 knew, was no way to win elections.

Which was why the most successful Republican of the 20th century up to that time, Dwight D. Eisenhower, had been quite happy with a top income tax rate on millionaires of 91 percent. As he wrote to his brother Edgar Eisenhower in a personal letter on November 8, 1954:

”[T]o attain any success it is quite clear that the Federal government cannot avoid or escape responsibilities which the mass of the people firmly believe should be undertaken by it. The political processes of our country are such that if a rule of reason is not applied in this effort, we will lose everything—even to a possible and drastic change in the Constitution. This is what I mean by my constant insistence upon ‘moderation’ in government.

“Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H. L. Hunt [you possibly know his background], a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid.”

Goldwater, however, rejected the “liberalism” of Eisenhower, Rockefeller, and other “moderates” within his own party. Extremism in defense of liberty was no vice, he famously told the 1964 nominating convention, and moderation was no virtue. And it doomed him and his party.

And so after Goldwater’s defeat, the Republicans were again lost in the wilderness just as after Hoover’s disastrous presidency. Even four years later when Richard Nixon beat Hubert Humphrey in 1968, Nixon wasn’t willing to embrace the economic conservatism of Goldwater and the economic true believers in the Republican Party. And Jerry Ford wasn’t, in their opinions, much better. If Nixon and Ford believed in economic conservatism, they were afraid to practice it for fear of dooming their party to another forty years in the electoral wilderness.

By 1974, Jude Wanniski had had enough. The Democrats got to play Santa Claus when they passed out Social Security and Unemployment checks – both programs of the New Deal – as well as when their “big government” projects like roads, bridges, and highways were built giving a healthy union paycheck to construction workers. They kept raising taxes on businesses and rich people to pay for things, which didn’t seem to have much effect at all on working people (wages were steadily going up, in fact), and that made them seem like a party of Robin Hoods, taking from the rich to fund programs for the poor and the working class. Americans loved it. And every time Republicans railed against these programs, they lost elections.

Everybody understood at the time that economies are driven by demand. People with good jobs have money in their pockets, and want to use it to buy things. The job of the business community is to either determine or drive that demand to their particular goods, and when they’re successful at meeting the demand then factories get built, more people become employed to make more products, and those newly-employed people have a paycheck that further increases demand.

Wanniski decided to turn the classical world of economics – which had operated on this simple demand-driven equation for seven thousand years – on its head. In 1974 he invented a new phrase – “supply side economics” – and suggested that the reason economies grew wasn’t because people had money and wanted to buy things with it but, instead, because things were available for sale, thus tantalizing people to part with their money. The more things there were, the faster the economy would grow.

At the same time, Arthur Laffer was taking that equation a step further. Not only was supply-side a rational concept, Laffer suggested, but as taxes went down, revenue to the government would go up!

Neither concept made any sense – and time has proven both to be colossal idiocies – but together they offered the Republican Party a way out of the wilderness.

Ronald Reagan was the first national Republican politician to suggest that he could cut taxes on rich people and businesses, that those tax cuts would cause them to take their surplus money and build factories or import large quantities of cheap stuff from low-labor countries, and that the more stuff there was supplying the economy the faster it would grow. George Herbert Walker Bush – like most Republicans of the time – was horrified. Ronald Reagan was suggesting “Voodoo Economics,” said Bush in the primary campaign, and Wanniski’s supply-side and Laffer’s tax-cut theories would throw the nation into such deep debt that we’d ultimately crash into another Republican Great Depression.

But Wanniski had been doing his homework on how to sell supply-side economics. In 1976, he rolled out to the hard-right insiders in the Republican Party his “Two Santa Clauses” theory, which would enable the Republicans to take power in America for the next thirty years.

Democrats, he said, had been able to be “Santa Clauses” by giving people things from the largesse of the federal government. Republicans could do that, too – spending could actually increase. Plus, Republicans could be double Santa Clauses by cutting people’s taxes! For working people it would only be a small token – a few hundred dollars a year on average – but would be heavily marketed. And for the rich it would amount to hundreds of billions of dollars in tax cuts. The rich, in turn, would use that money to import or build more stuff to market, thus increasing supply and stimulating the economy. And that growth in the economy would mean that the people still paying taxes would pay more because they were earning more.

There was no way, Wanniski said, that the Democrats could ever win again. They’d have to be anti-Santas by raising taxes, or anti-Santas by cutting spending. Either one would lose them elections.

When Reagan rolled out Supply Side Economics in the early 80s, dramatically cutting taxes while exploding (mostly military) spending, there was a moment when it seemed to Wanniski and Laffer that all was lost. The budget deficit exploded and the country fell into a deep recession – the worst since the Great Depression – and Republicans nationwide held their collective breath. But David Stockman came up with a great new theory about what was going on – they were “starving the beast” of government by running up such huge deficits that Democrats would never, ever in the future be able to talk again about national health care or improving Social Security – and this so pleased Alan Greenspan, the Fed Chairman, that he opened the spigots of the Fed, dropping interest rates and buying government bonds, producing a nice, healthy goose to the economy. Greenspan further counseled Reagan to dramatically increase taxes on people earning under $37,800 a year by increasing the Social Security (FICA/payroll) tax, and then let the government borrow those newfound hundreds of billions of dollars off-the-books to make the deficit look better than it was.

Reagan, Greenspan, Winniski, and Laffer took the federal budget deficit from under a trillion dollars in 1980 to almost three trillion by 1988, and back then a dollar could buy far more than it buys today. They and George HW Bush ran up more debt in eight years than every president in history, from George Washington to Jimmy Carter, combined. Surely this would both starve the beast and force the Democrats to make the politically suicidal move of becoming deficit hawks.

And that’s just how it turned out. Bill Clinton, who had run on an FDR-like platform of a “new covenant” with the American people that would strengthen the institutions of the New Deal, strengthen labor, and institute a national health care system, found himself in a box. A few weeks before his inauguration, Alan Greenspan and Robert Rubin sat him down and told him the facts of life: he was going to have to raise taxes and cut the size of government. Clinton took their advice to heart, raised taxes, balanced the budget, and cut numerous programs, declaring an “end to welfare as we know it” and, in his second inaugural address, an “end to the era of big government.” He was the anti-Santa Claus, and the result was an explosion of Republican wins across the country as Republican politicians campaigned on a platform of supply-side tax cuts and pork-rich spending increases.

Looking at the wreckage of the Democratic Party all around Clinton by 1999, Winniski wrote a gloating memo that said, in part: “We of course should be indebted to Art Laffer for all time for his Curve… But as the primary political theoretician of the supply-side camp, I began arguing for the ‘Two Santa Claus Theory’ in 1974. If the Democrats are going to play Santa Claus by promoting more spending, the Republicans can never beat them by promoting less spending. They have to promise tax cuts…”

Ed Crane, president of the Libertarian CATO Institute, noted in a memo that year: “When Jack Kemp, Newt Gingich, Vin Weber, Connie Mack and the rest discovered Jude Wanniski and Art Laffer, they thought they’d died and gone to heaven. In supply-side economics they found a philosophy that gave them a free pass out of the debate over the proper role of government. Just cut taxes and grow the economy: government will shrink as a percentage of GDP, even if you don’t cut spending. That’s why you rarely, if ever, heard Kemp or Gingrich call for spending cuts, much less the elimination of programs and departments.”

George W. Bush embraced the Two Santa Claus Theory with gusto, ramming through huge tax cuts – particularly a cut to a maximum 15 percent income tax rate on people like himself who made their principle income from sitting around the pool waiting for their dividend or capital gains checks to arrive in the mail – and blowing out federal spending. Bush even out-spent Reagan, which nobody had ever thought would again be possible.

And it all seemed to be going so well, just as it did in the early 1920s when a series of three consecutive Republican presidents cut income taxes on the uber-rich from over 70 percent to under 30 percent. In 1929, pretty much everybody realized that instead of building factories with all that extra money, the rich had been pouring it into the stock market, inflating a bubble that – like an inexorable law of nature – would have to burst. But the people who remembered that lesson were mostly all dead by 2005, when Jude Wanniski died and George Gilder celebrated the Reagan/Bush supply-side-created bubble economies in a Wall Street Journal eulogy:

”...Jude’s charismatic focus on the tax on capital gains redeemed the fiscal policies of four administrations. ... [T]he capital-gains tax has come erratically but inexorably down—while the market capitalization of U.S. equities has risen from roughly a third of global market cap to close to half. These many trillions in new entrepreneurial wealth are a true warrant of the worth of his impact. Unbound by zero-sum economics, Jude forged the golden gift of a profound and passionate argument that the establishments of the mold must finally give way to the powers of the mind. He audaciously defied all the Buffetteers of the trade gap, the moldy figs of the Phillips Curve, the chic traders in money and principle, even the stultifying pillows of the Nobel Prize.”

In reality, his tax cuts did what they have always done over the past 100 years – they initiated a bubble economy that would let the very rich skim the cream off the top just before the ceiling crashed in on working people.

The Republicans got what they wanted from Wanniski’s work. They held power for thirty years, made themselves trillions of dollars, cut organized labor’s representation in the workplace from around 25 percent when Reagan came into office to around 8 of the non-governmental workforce today, and left such a massive deficit that some misguided “conservative” Democrats are again clamoring to shoot Santa with working-class tax hikes and entitlement program cuts.

And now Boehner, McCain, Brooks, and the whole crowd are again clamoring to be recognized as the ones who will out-Santa Claus the Democrats. You’d think after all the damage they’ve done that David Gregory would have simply laughed Boehner off the program – much as the American people did to the Republicans in the last election – although Gregory is far too much a gentleman for that. Instead, he merely looked incredulous; it was enough.

The Two Santa Claus theory isn’t dead, as we can see from today’s Republican rhetoric. Hopefully, though, reality will continue to sink in with the American people and the massive fraud perpetrated by Wanniski, Reagan, Laffer, Graham, Bush(s), and all their “conservative” enablers will be seen for what it was and is. And the Obama administration can get about the business of repairing the damage and recovering the stolen assets of these cheap hustlers.

~Retrieved 20130702 from: https://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/01/26-0
Sorry, hyperlinking isn’t working at this time. ~ Espiritus_C

Dutchess_III's avatar

^^^Longest post ever?

Linda_Owl's avatar

I admire @Espiritus_Corvus grasp of Political History. The Republicans are very adept liars & the Tea Party members have absolutely no belief in America’s Social Contract. Until Congress is willing to impose tax increases on the wealthy in America, the wealthy will continue to put their money in the banks in other countries – instead of reinvesting it in America. Unfortunately, I do not envision Congress being willing to impose tax increases, because our government is actually being run by the big corporations & these big corporations are all about Profit Motive…. their only reason to exist is to generate Profits. These big corporations are not likely to invest their Profits into rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure. Also, unfortunately, the Supreme Court has given these big corporations the power to actually buy our election processes. These big corporations are doing their best to become the new ‘Elites’ & the average American means nothing to them & the poor Americans mean even less. All in all, most Politicians cannot be trusted. There are a handful of Democrats that we can trust, Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Alan Grayson, Wendy Davis, etc. But I have lost almost all of my respect for President Obama. I voted for him, & I believed what he was saying, but he has now become almost as bad of a liar as are the Republicans – his decisions do not reflect well in our current predicament.

DaphneT's avatar

Lower taxes, smaller government, deregulation, these are solutions to some problems, but not the tough problems. That said, more taxes, even larger government and excessive regulation are not the solutions for the tough problems either.

So what are the tough problems? In no particular order, some of those problems are:

engaging the people in their own government,

agreeing on the tax amount needed so that there is enough money available to manage our country’s needs,

rekindling the spirit of pride in having an education if everyone has one, what’s so special about it?,

agreeing on what the country needs vs what a particular state needs vs what a particular industry wants vs individualism,

I’ve run out at the moment.

Solutions for these types of problems are statesmanship, knowledge and negotiating skills, none of which are present in our current Congress in sufficient form for our country to progress from stalemate to prosperous-ness.

Jaxk's avatar

Everybody wants a simple solution. That’s why when we realize we have the most expensive education system in the world and it is not serving us well, we go for the simple solution. Spend more money. We have the most expensive healthcare in the world, so what’s the solution. Of course, spend more money on it. We have industry moving overseas where taxes and regulation are less burdensome, so what’s the solution? Raise taxes and increase regulation.

While we’re watching government agencies throwing wild multimillion dollar parties, what’s our solution? Again raise taxes to pay for them. But of course we need to make the wealthy pay more. That is of course because they are the only ones paying taxes to begin with. The entire federal government is supported by them already. If you tax it, you get less of it and if you subsidize it you get more of it. So we tax working and we subsidize not working.

It should be painfully obvious that what we’ve been doing for the past 5 years is not working. The economy is stagnant, jobs are not recovering, and we’re spending more money than ever before. We spend all our time calling each other names rather than addressing problems. Don’t listen to that guy, he’s a bigot. Disregard that guy, he’s rich. If the solution won’t fit on a bumber sticker, it can’t be very good. We have the greatest country in the world, awash with natural resources, a moderate climate, and fertile land. All we really need is to release our economy from the shackles we’ve arbitrarily placed on it.

jerv's avatar

@Jaxk While what we’ve been doing the last five years isn’t working well, what we were doing in the years just prior to the last 5 worked less well. Neither party has the right idea, really. And you’re right about too much name-calling, but that’s what happens when extremists get into power; stubborn refusal to budge leads to no good policies being passed.

Healthcare costs are largely the doings of the insurance and pharmaceutical industries, but they won’t change without government intervention; laissez-faire fails once greed enters the picture.

To be continued; break is over…

Jaxk's avatar

Yes, government always makes things cheaper. Just think how cheap everything would be if we only had more regulation.

jerv's avatar

@Jaxk Exactly the opposite, but they drive costs up less than the private sector does. And what happened to health insurance prices in California? I’m not saying that regulation is right, but it’s often necessary. Theory and reality differ greatly.

I was actually going to agree with most of the rest of your post, but since you’re putting words into my mouth, just agree for me.

jca's avatar

What happens where I live is places get privatized (medical centers, sewage treatment systems, parks) and then when they’re all screwed up and all the money is sucked out of them, the private corporations throw their hands up and say “we can’t do this, we’re not profiting, we’re done.” Then the thing (medical center, sewage treatment plants, parks) go back to the public, broker than ever and needing more than ever from taxpayers.

jerv's avatar

@jca And that is because reality doesn’t always conform to theory. Then again, “Horse and Sparrow” economics was discredited before it was even tried, and disprove every time it was tried for short periods, so I think it safe to say that some people have the same attitude towards bad policy as Bullwinkle did towards pulling a rabbit out of his hat: “This time, for sure!”.

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