What would you list as the top ten rules for moral living?

1. Don’t Be A Dick

2. Remember, You Are No Better Than Anyone Else

3. Your Opinion Is Just That, Your Opinion

4. Practice What You Preach

5. If Shit Looks Good, Leave It Alone

6. Leave Shit That Is Not Yours Alone

7. Don’t Hurt, Kill, Maim, Or Worship Shit

8. Try As Hard As You Can To Be Helpful

9. Take Care Of Yourself And Let Others Take Care Of Themselves

10. Morality Is 100% Objective. Work On The Not Being A Dick Part.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbors’ ox.

Check this view of Eddie Izzard on that one…

I go with “don’t be a dick”, followed by “don’t be a cunt”.

1. do not inflict injuries, death or physical or mental suffering on others.
2. do not steal
3. do not say things that you know to be false.
4. do not believe things that are not supported by evidence.
5. strive towards greater understanding and knowledge about the universe.
6. strive towards bettering the lives of your fellow sentient beings.
7. do not own another sentient being
8. do not exploit other sentient beings for your own selfish needs
9. do not discriminate against other sentient beings based on species, race, gender, religion, political beliefs, sexual orientation, physical and/or psychological abberations.
10. do not harm the environment, but if you do, restore it to its former state as soon as possible.

Treat everyone the way that Gail treats Milo.

No “others”.

Get that right, and moral living flows naturally from it.

I was taught just one rule, and all the other dos-and-don’ts fall into line behind it.

Before you do or say something questionable, pretend that 1,000 people are watching and listening. Include people whom you respect and admire, and whose respect you want in return, among the crowd. If you work, make sure that your boss and all your colleagues are there. Everyone you love, too, should be standing by.

If you’re about to lie, steal, treat another person badly, say something evil that you can never take back, or do anything shameful, those 1,000 pairs of imaginary eyes and ears might cause you to behave very differently.

1. The golden rule. Do unti others as you would want done to you. Pretty mich that covers it all, but I will identify a few other key things that fall within that parameter.

2. Take a moment to help others whenever it is easy for you and expect nothing back. This is to me a very important part of Pay it Forward.

3. Don’t gossip. (I wish I was better at that one).

4. Don’t judge others when their life has no impact on yours.

DON’T BE RUDE!!!

uh, all caps is kina rude

YOU TRYING TO TELL ME I’M RUDE? HOW RUDE OF YOU!!!!

I really think most rules for moral living can be put under the umbrella of the “Golden Rule”.

@Dutchess_III: That wasn’t funny the first time, either.

Edit

1 Do not do unto others what you don’t want others to do unto you.
2 That applies to your government also. You vote it in – you are responsible for it.

From a biblical standpoint, the Ten Commandments are designed to show us how far we have strayed from God, not a way to club atheists over the head.

Second, it’s not appropriate to assume all Christians adhere to such a myopic view of life. Some do, but certainly not all. But since this is in Social, you’re gonna have fun with it, regardless. It’s a pity this is going to be another rant against theists.

Morals? You don’t need no stinkin morals. God had nothing to do with giving us our morals so eat the dog for supper if you’d like because its no sacrifice, be obsessed, have pride, strangle thy neighbor, always be angry, lie, cheat, steal, because these are the things that will help make our world go round.

And, sarcasm microphone off now.

@snowberry I really don’t see how this question has been a rant against theists. But I guess you see that in almost any question that even remotely hints at the possibility of bringing religion into the discussion.

Seriously. You and a few others here are ridiculous when it comes to seeing attacks where there are none. But I guess anyone who thinks that morals come from something other than God is attacking you, huh?

@Blondesjon Great list, so long as we make a careful distinction between having a dick and being one.

@whitenoise No argument there either, so long as I can be accepting of actual cunts.

@ragingloli That’s an extraordinarily good list.

@gailcalled An excelent and sussinct rule set.

@thorninmud Excellent rule. Ingroup/outgroup differentiation is a fundamental to a great deal of the immoral, abusive behavior of humans. In fact, the 10 commandments were never meant for anyone but the children of Israel.

We need to bear in mind that the people Moses delivered the commandments to interpreted them as only applying to the 12 tribes of Israel. Thou shalt not kill, lie to, covet the possessions of (a fellow Jew) was their understanding. In fact, Adonai commanded, in verse after verse, the covet the possessions of, pillage and kill outgroups. One finds some of that ingroup/outgroup separation even today among Fundamentalist Christians. But you don’t need to turn the clock back far before you find all of Christendom perfectly comfortable with the pillaging and killing of outgroups in the name of their Lord. And a large number of Muslims support it to this day.

@SadieMartinPaul That’s a pretty powerful rule. Thanks.

@JLeslie Excellent rules. It really doesn’t take 10. 5 of the God of Abraham’s 10 were about how to constantly stroke his enormous ego.

@Dutchess_III Well I thought that was a clever answer, and funny. It’s also true. Not bad for just 3 short words.

@DominicX The only ones I subscribe to that the Golden Rule doesn’t cover are things like:“Question everything.”, “Marvel at the wonder of nature” and “Never stop learning.”

@flutherother Agreed.

@snowberry The original 10 commandments were all about clubbing people other than the children of Israel over the head.

@KaY_Jelly More vitriol from those that claim I am the author of all vitriol, but can’t find where I actually wrote anything as incendiary as that.

I got this by PM from a fine Fluther Christian. “Sometimes I’d really like to high five you in the face with a brick for being so smug. I can all but see your upper lip curl with disdain as you type shit out. I’d offer you a bite of decency, but you’re so full up on all those steaming bowls of arrogance that that one bite would probably make you explode, and I’m not cleaning up that mess.”

Show me where I write such things. If I have sent any such PM to anyone, quote it.

@DominicX From the above, it seem we have a group of theists here who believe they have the divine right and even responsibility to excoriate all who disagree with them, but that to even question the perfection of their beliefs is sheer blasphemy, a capital crime.

Ugh, it was not criticism. It was sarcasm.

First of all if morals did not come from the Christian God then humans would do whatever they want. I do not believe we are conditioned to believe rape, murder, deception etc. are wrong behaviors. We were given knowledge for a reason. Animals without comparable intelligence, act accordingly, they also are not bound by God’s rules.

Therefore that leaves us, and we screw things up. It’s really all going as planned.

Perilous Times and Perilous Men

2 Timothy 3:1–5

3 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come:

2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good,

4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,

5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away!

2 Peter 3:3–7

3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts,

4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they werefrom the beginning of creation.”

5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water,
 
6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water.

7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

“Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people. Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

Apparently god’s idea of what is moral also includes genocide, mass child murder and pederasty.

“If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.”

And that rape victims must marry their rapists.

Yeah, I can see how morals came from god. What a joke.

First of all I’m going to say that I know that criticism is a synonym of sarcasm. Now I’m going to defend my statement, even though I thought it seemed clear. My sarcastic opinion was not intended to be mean about the question or to the OP. If the OP feels I was mean in regards to his feelings then that is a fault of my own. I apologize.

Christians can be fallible too. We are not saints, just because we believe in God that does not give us a free pass while the rest of the non religious parts of humanity burn in hell.

Anyway, I was being sarcastic about the fact that I feel like a hamster on a wheel when it comes to trying to explain Christianity to atheists!

Why should it be happening anyway?

You either believe or you don’t.

I don’t eat meat, I do not ask meat eaters to murder animals, eat the meat and describe the taste. And simply if a meat eater decides to describe the taste of a murdered animal to me without my asking, it’s like fingers nails on a chalkboard, and I don’t like that sound. Do you?
So if the answers irritate you or you’re desire to be a unbeliever, why ask them at all?

This question irritated me so I answered it with sarcasm. Because honestly if you really are not an unbeliever then pay attention, Christianity 101, God keeps knocking on your door, and you aren’t listening.

You wanted signs, and they may not be in the manner you like, but if you pay attention much more closely you will find that God is testing you, are you passing the test? I don’t know, it’s not my decision to make.

@ragingloli Blasphemy!

You are referring to Deuteronomy 22:28–29.

Let’s not forget that you can’t just pick and choose scriptures to you’re liking.

This is where I must add the scriptures before the one you posted.

Deuteronomy 22:22–27

—22 “If a man is found lying with a woman married to a husband, then both of them shall die—the man that lay with the woman, and the woman; so you shall put away the evil from Israel.—

23 “If a young woman who is a virgin is betrothed to a husband, and a man finds her in the city and lies with her,

24 then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry out in the city, and the man because he humbled his neighbor’s wife; so you shall put away the evil from among you.

25 “But if a man finds a betrothed young woman in the countryside, and the man forces her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die.

26 But you shall do nothing to the young woman; there is in the young woman no sin deserving of death, for just as when a man rises against his neighbor and kills him, even so is this matter.

27 For he found her in the countryside, and the betrothed young woman cried out, but there was no one to save her.

Have you ever heard of etiologies in the bible? If we believed it happened as exactley as said, no wonder Christians get the cone of shame for believing in fairy tales.

Btw, if everything was exactley as it seemed then Lot’s wife is a pillar of salt.

This doesn’t mean I am excluding all miracles. I’m just stating my opinion that the mountain doesn’t move for us on command literally because if it did that would cause a lot of problems for a lot of people, places and things. But yet when natural disasters (or perhaps miracles?) do occur and people die, some people blame God while others call to Him. So I would say God is glorified by our suffering…just like all the questions about religion from unbelievers and skeptics and so on, is glorifying God and testing each and every one us. Some are failing miserably and I will pray for them as I always do.

Peace.

@KaY_Jelly
Do you really think the passages you posted make it any better?
Au contraire, it makes it even worse.

If you don’t understand it I can see how it looks worse. Personally I don’t see it that way. It was a different time then. Maybe in 50 years people will look back at today and think what savages we are for caring and providing for animals then almost literally stabbing them in the back and murdering them to provide them as a protein for supper on dinner tables countrywide.

Also capital punishment still exists, and stoning is a form of it, if that is what is bothering you and I guess it doesn’t matter that Jesus was crucified (another type of capital punishment at that time) which is no longer in use, but gee what was the whole point of Him being crucified for again?

@KaY_Jelly Does not take her morals form the Bible. She deceives herself into thinking she does. The Bible says slavery is fine. It even provides rules for it. Men can rape a young girl, then she has to marry them. It’s fine to have a household full of wives and concubines. The Bible condones murder of adulterers and homosexuals. It provides for stoning to death all who eat pork, shellfish of any kind, wear Perma-Press clothing, or planting a flower garden with mixed flower seeds. I daresay that @KaY_Jelly doesn’t subscribe to such barbarism, but there is nothing in the Bible cancelling it, saying God changed his omnipotent, omniscient mind. In fact, Jesus is quoted as saying that not one jot or one tittle of the law and the prophets would pass away till the end of time. Yet @KaY_Jelly falsely claims to draw her morals form the bible, while rejecting broad areas of its moral teaching.

Why does she reject slavery, bigamy, and forced marriage after rape? Not because the Bible tells her to. So what does tell her to reject these abhorrent values? I’d guess it’s the same thing that leads me and other atheists to reject them, and that pretty well demonstrates how the argument that without the Bible we would have no morals is completely vapid.

@ETpro Thank you for that! I’ve just seen the light! You couldn’t make the picture much more clear for me even if you were talking in first person!

Wow. You take trolling to new levels each and every single solitary time I try to answer any religious questions and I fall for it and feed you, like now.

Stop attacking my comments because of my religion. If you don’t like the answers I can’t help you.

You obviously do not understand the bible.

In 2 Samuel 13, Amnon, a son of David, rapes his half-sister, Tamar. Tamar was not forced to marry Amnon. Interestingly, though, Tamar seemed to have wanted to marry Amnon after the rape (2 Samuel 13:13–16). Why would she desire such a thing? In that culture, virginity was highly prized. It would have been very difficult for a woman who was not a virgin, and especially a woman who had been raped, to find a man to marry her. It seems that Tamar would have rather married Amnon than live desolate and single the rest of her life, which is what happened to her (2 Samuel 13:20). So Deuteronomy 22:28–29could be viewed as merciful to the woman, who, because of the rape, would be considered unmarriageable. In that culture, a woman without a husband would have a very difficult time providing for herself. Unmarried women often had no choice but to sell themselves into slavery or prostitution just to survive. This is why the passage leaves marriage to the discretion of the father, because every situation is different, and it is better to be flexible than have a blanket rule. Read more

Not eating pork was not a “moral” but more of a law, it was considered unclean. So now I will cue you to Exodus 15:26

26 and said, “If you diligently heed the voice of the Lord your God and do what is right in His sight, give ear to His commandments and keep all His statutes, I will put none of the diseases on you which I have brought on the Egyptians. For I am the Lord who heals you.”

As for the rest of the stuff you brought up I’m not going to go through it all for you, the last time I did this you accused me of shoving my religion down your throat. You also said you were not going to be silenced but you’ve been running me and some others out of religious questions, and so unlike you, I will bow out yet again. As your defamation of my character is uncalled for.

Bye. Again.

@KaY_Jelly
Reading your posts, two things need to be off my chest…

1) You cannot say “First of all if morals did not come from the Christian God then humans would do whatever they want [...] rape, murder, deception etc.[]” and then complain about people “attacking [your] comments because of [your] religion.”

You just told everyone that is not Christian that they don’t have morals and for as far as they do, they are to thank Christians for it.
Talking about insulting people of other religions / faiths / non-faith.

2) How can you say that morals came from God, who sent His word to guide us and then ask to understand that as they were written in the bible, were the morals from “a different time”. Are you saying these morals didn’t come from God in those days and God was limited to what He could get the people to do and therefore He accepted their morals rather than the other way around? talking about blasphemy…

@KaY_Jelly I have to ask about this whole idea that Christianity was the only way to morality. What about the Buddhist living in the mountains of Asia 100 years ago who never even heard of Jesus. He farmed and took care of his family and lived a wholesome life helping his neighbors and he isn’t moral? Jesus was on one little small patch of land in Israel and eventually his existance and the story of him as the messiah has spread around, but before the message gets to a person they are not necessarily immoral. We can figure out it is bad to rape and kill just with logic and observations and conclusions of consequences in society. We can use our brains to make agreements among community members what is best for the individual and the community.

My childhood was void of Jesus and God, but I was raised with morality. Kids behave because they witness modeled behavior and because their parents and society have expectations of them and mold their behavior through reward and punishment. The idea of God is pretty abstract for most children, they worry more about their mom being pleased or angry I think. So, we can hand down moral behavior without Jesus.

@JLeslie

Amen

“Morals” are a societal code of conduct that we follow in order to get along in our societies. Morals came about long before any of the first gods did.

Most people teach their kids, from a very young age, not to “take,” or steal or lie or hurt. But there are those who inadvertently teach their kids that they can do what ever they want, they don’t have to follow any societal or moral rules, because they’re special.

Morality depends on the person, not their religion.

#1) My answer to the moral question.

#2) I’m confused by this.

@JLeslie OK. Unfortunately I believe that Buddhism is illogical. So I cannot answer that. After looking into Buddhism I personally believe Buddhism’s end intention of the religion is to rid the individual of all desires. And so, the individual must have a desire to eradicate oneself of all desires, which I believe is conflicting and fallacious. So I can’t answer your question because to me the morals of the Buddhists would be irrational and not of Christian faith so therefore they were not morals of the Christian God and in fact most likely morals against Him.

But I can provide an answer for you as to why there are other religions on earth.

Romans 1:19–21

19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.

20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened.

The existence of so many religions and the claim that all religions lead to God without question confuses many who are earnestly seeking the truth about God, with the end result sometimes being that some despair of ever reaching the absolute truth on the subject. Or they end up embracing the universalist claim that all religions lead to God. Of course, skeptics also point to the existence of so many religions as proof that either you cannot know God or that God simply does not exist.
Many people do not want to believe in a God who demands righteousness and morality, so they invent a God who makes no such requirements. Many people do not want to believe in a God who declares it impossible for people to earn their own way to heaven. So they invent a God who accepts people into heaven if they have completed certain steps, followed certain rules, and/or obeyed certain laws, at least to the best of their ability. Many people do not want a relationship with a God who is sovereign and omnipotent. So they imagine God as being more of a mystical force than a personal and sovereign ruler.
Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/so-many-religions.html#ixzz2cYciiRnS

Also, just to clarify even more; I’m talking about morals as in moral epistemology, questions about how we come to know moral values, not good and bad intentions or moral ontology, questions about the reality of moral values.

Read the moral argument

@KaY_Jelly Buddhism was just an example, we can use any group of people who know nothing of Christ in the last 2,000 years. Jesus did not show himself to everyone, he showed himself in the middle east. Maybe we can say God is everywhere, but I know many Christians who don’t really think about God without Jesus. We have had arguments here on fluther that the Christian, Jewish, and Muslim God is not ne and the same. I am on the side of He is one God, the God of the Abrahamic religions, but that is my opinion. I never really understood useing Jesus synonomous with God, it is two separate beings (for lack of a better word) to me. But, I am Jewish, so that affects my perspective I guess.

It’s a little upsetting to me that God makes it all so mysterious to believe in Him. Why not show himself to us and give us his wisdom? Why make it have to be a leap of faith? I dn’t expect you to answer that, I am just stating my thoughts.

You speak of people who do not want to believe in God and why they don’t believe in God, but what about the devout Orthodox Jewish person who believes in God with every inch of his soul. Who lives his life according to what he believes to be God’s laws. Every day of his life he considers God. He wakes and wears a yarmulke to remind him God is above him. He is always considering what he eats, to make sure he is following kosher laws. The calendar tells him what to do every week, if not more often, with the regular sabath every Friday evening. Plus, all the other holidays to celebrate. To say that Jewish person does not believe in God or have faith in God and cannot go to heaven just makes no sense to me. He spends his life honoring God. Are we to believe God does not witness his devotion? If he actually behaves as Jesus would, just does not accept Jesus as the son of God, are we to accept God would actually damn that person?

Add in that Jews believe all good people can go to heaven and that we each have our own relationship with God and that is worthy. The Jewish person accepts other religions, because he does not worry for your soul, he trusts your good behavior will be recognized by God and how you worship is not the Jewish persons concern.

Christians do not afford the same to other people of other religions. It doesn’t matter how good someone is, they don’t get into heaven without accepting Jesus Christ as their savior. It honestly makes no sense to me. To dwell on accepting Jesus rather than dwelling on a persons behavior.

In Timothy 5:8 it is said that those who deny or do not take care of their family are worse than an unbeliever. I don’t have the exact quote. There are references in the bible showing that our behavior and our reposibility to each other is more important than our belief in God.

@JLeslie All this kind of stuff is why I started moving away from the Christianity I was raised with and becoming an agnostic atheist. Here’s the full quote, by the way: “8 But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.”

@DominicX For me it is not so much whether God exists or not, I have no quarrel with whether he exists. I don’t have any problem with people believing in God. What troubles me is when religions separate us. I have been told God started with Adam and Eve, because we shoud all remember we are all related to the first two people given by God. I don’t know if that is a Jewish thing or if other religions believe that? It sounds good to me though. We are all family, all children of God. Even I, as an atheist, say we are all children of God, because it can be like a metaphor. To me it is the same as we are all created equal, and any other saying that basically sends the same message. To condemn our “brother” when he has done nothing but good in his life is impossible to me.

I personally think Christians can decide to be Christian and also not accept the idea that everyone has to be a Christian to go to heaven.

@JLeslie I like your answers. On some parts I agree. I for example think it is not just “Christians” who go to heaven.

To me Christianity is the most logical. I could go through why, but I won’t, I don’t see the need to go through it.

I’m sure any of us could argue logic and religion all night and I’m simply just too tired.

In the end I don’t think it’s so much about not being able to go to heaven. I think God actually wants us there with Him.

@KaY_Jelly Do you feel like everyone should be a Christian? That somehow it is better or right?

@JLeslie no not at all. I do not think any religion is better or right. All religion has flaws. I actually do not even go to church. I just state myself as being a Christian because of the values in faith I hold. Whether they are better or not I have no clue. There is no evidence that God exists.

So until otherwise the “burden of proof” is ours I guess.

@KaY_Jelly Ok, that’s interesting. Because from what you have written previously that did not really come across. It seemed like you believed Christianity to be the one right religion. Saying ther people are confused and quoting the bible sure seemed like you were dismissing other people’s beliefs or disbelief. Don’t get me wrong, I believe you. I believe that you don’t think one religion is better than another.

Well I wonder if this you feel like that because because you are in a way conditioned to believe that all Christians think their religion is better then any other person’s belief. I have seen some Christians where it’s more about converting people, which is why they dismiss others beliefs, which I’m not trying to do.

Don’t get me wrong @JLeslie, but it may also seem like I have an agenda because I only believe in Christianity and so when I defend myself it comes off as being preachy for my cause and dismissing all others.

If I could defend everyone else’s beliefs I would but I just don’t don’t believe Buddhism (just an example) is the closest way to be with God, but that doesn’t mean I think my way is better.

Pride in my own religion will get me nowhere.

I honestly believe in equality I’m sorry if it doesn’t come across that way.

@KaY_Jelly I know many Christians who never try to convert anyone and I know many Christians who inject Christianity into everything. The latter feel to me like they are always trying to convert people and that they feel their religion is the one right way.

I guess since you seemed to be defending your religion and beliefs it felt to me you think your religion is right. Rather than having a tone of just explaining your religion.

@KaY_Jelly Here’s an interesting rant from a Rabbi Moshe Ben-Chaim who thinks your religious relativism is all wet. You can’t both be right, so somebody’s wrong. I’d prefer to think its the Rabbi. But he does raise some interesting objections along with some that are pretty easy to refute.

@ETpro It says the page can’t be found.

As a requirement of graduation from Kansas Newman College (a private college) I had to take a religion course. Our instructor was pretty damn cool. He was a Methodist minister.
He said that Christianity is the only religion that requires it’s believers to go out and actively recruit members.
I suspect that this was incorporated into the Christian theology for political reasons rather than spiritual reasons. .... Wait. This leaves open the possibility that humans wrote things into the Bible to suit themselves! NO WAY!!!

Same thing, page cannot be found.

@Dutchess_III Naw, Radical Muslims just kill you if you don’t want to be Muslim. Or better yet, just kill you and not bother about proselytizing. I guess it’s easier in the long run.

And they have a unique and somewhat sneaky way of gaining adherents. A Muslim man marries a non-Muslim woman. She is often coerced or maybe willingly adheres to the Muslim lifestyle and practices, and of course all the kids will be raised Muslim. I’ve met a few women who fit this description, and seen several articles on the practice.

@snowberry

Not stereotyping or being bigot hmm?

@snowberry I was thinking more along the lines of Jews, Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism, that kind of thing.

@whitenoise Hmmm, You haven’t heard that radical Muslims kill people who don’t believe just as they do? Have you EVER heard of a pacifist radical Muslim? I haven’t. It’s an oxymoron.

Do you actually know any Muslims? I do. They are from the country in Yemen, and I am very close friends with them.They pray 5 times a day, their women wear the burqa, etc. (One of the women even asked me to assist her in the birth of her first child).

Anyway, my friends wouldn’t promote proselytizing by marriage, but some do. As much as I love my friends, they sure can be pushy regarding joining their faith. Whether or not it’s required I don’t know.

Radical Christians have done, and do, the same thing. However, I wouldn’t paint the majority of Christians, such as @Knowitall with that same brush, so I agree. @snowberry was stereotyping.

@snowberry

I live in a muslim country, I work in a muslim company where 99.8 of my colleagues are muslim. All my staff is muslim. So yes… I guess I know some.

Have you actually read your own post?

@whitenose Yes, I think I did. I am just about positive I did. After all I spent quite a bit of time writing it.

Apparently we’re not connecting. Here is what I was thinking about when I wrote my original remark. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_kSBvE4Jeo I also read several articles about the practice, but I don’t know that I could find them now. Nevertheless, it happens.

So please re-explain what you are saying.

And please explain what it is you think Radical Muslim means.

You wrote:
“A Muslim man marries a non-Muslim woman. She is often coerced or maybe willingly adheres to the Muslim lifestyle and practices, and of course all the kids will be raised Muslim. I’ve met a few women who fit this description, and seen several articles on the practice.”

I guess you meant to say:
“some of these extremists even have a unique and somewhat sneaky way of gaining adherents; a man marries a non-Muslim woman. She is often coerced or maybe willingly adheres to the Muslim lifestyle and practices, and of course all the kids will be raised Muslim. I’ve met a few women who fit this description, and seen several articles on the practice.”

It must be my reading things wrongly… Sorry :-)

@whitenoise OK, fair enough. We only have 10 minutes to correct stuff, and I missed it. Thanks. the practice seems pretty extreme to me.

To me as well…. Fact is that Muslims see children born to male muslims always as muslim. That is the reason they (often) don’t allow or disapprove their daughters marryong a non muslim wife.

Their sons can marry anybody… They would always percieve the the children as born muslim.

My sister was pretty much required to convert to Catholicism when she married my BIL 30 years ago. The kids were raised Catholic.

When a boy is born to a Jewish mother, the son is automatically Jewish.

Is that at all comparable to the Muslim discussion you guys are having?

@Dutchess_III My knowledge of such things goes like this: you can’t get married in the Catholic church unless you are Catholic, so if the Catholic man or woman wants a Catholic wedding, their nonCatholic fiance has to convert. I’m pretty sure during the Catholic classes you take before getting married you basically agree to raise your children Catholic. I have Catholic friends who had never been confirmed, and when they wanted to get married in the Catholic church they had to do a confirmation before they got married, even though they had always identified as Catholics their entire life.

You are right about Judaism, a baby born to a Jewish mother is considered Jewish, so a Jewish man who is marrying a woman who is not Jewish might ask her to convert so the children are automatically accepted as Jewish. Most Rabbi’s will not perform interreligious marriages, so if the couple wants to be married by a rabbi they must both be Jewish. There are a few rabbis who will do interreligious marriages, and from what I understand some priests will, going back to the Catholic discussion, but I am not 100% sure of that. I would assume the couple still makes some sort of promise to raise their children Catholic.

I don’t know if Christians, including Catholics look at it like Muslims and Jews. I think Christianity it is not so much being born to Christian parents, but having been baptized, communion, confirmed, born again, and other similar type rituals. Maybe you know the answer to that about Christians? I never really thought about the differences before.

I was only asking if there seemed to be similiarities between Muslim expectation and Catholic / other religion’s expectation. I don’t know what it “takes” to be a Christian.
I think just considering yourself one should be enough. What you do with it from there is also up to you.

@Dutchess_III I’m with you that I think whatever a person idenifies as is good enough for me. I don’t care what their parents were, but as a Jew I know basically my children are viewed as Jewish and they would not be able to escape that, especially people who are antisemitic will see them as Jewish, having Jewish blood, and I don’t think it matters which parent they get it from for that matter. The is a difference between someone within the religion recognizing the person as Jewish and someone outside of the religion.

My “picture” of Christianity is if someone comes to the church doors and says they want to be Christian the red carpet roles out and everyone easily is welcomed into the fold. There is a story of a person going to the rabbi to convert to Judaism and the rabbi slams the door in their face; or says, “no you don’t” and then closes the door in their face. Supposedly, they do it three times before they take the person in and actually give them information to start the conversion process. I don’t know if that ever really happens. Maybe some of the orthodox do it? I know when my husband wanted to convert the rabbi did not slam the door in his face. Maybe there is a difference if it is done before a marriage or just an individual interested in converting. I think it is a test of how much the person wants to convert.

The Muslims I have no idea what the stereotype or real deal is when it comes to someone wanting to convert. They definitely were recruiting black Americans back in the day, I don’t know how much that goes on now. I don’t think of them as trying to prostelytize in the white community, but I could be very wrong. I have never had someone Muslim try to convert me or even talk about their religion much, but most Muslims I have spent time with are not extremely religious. I have never had a random Muslim who is a stranger appraoch me to convert like I have had with Christians, although it has only happened a few times with Christians admittedly.

We think a lot alike, @JLeslie!

@snowberry and @KaY_Jelly Sorry, my URL cut and paste missed the last letter of the URL. It is here

@ETpro I clicked on your new link, and it took me to my previous comment above that said, ”@ETpro It says the page can’t be found.”

Major glitch going on…

Here’s the corrected URL for @ETpro‘s link: http://www.mesora.org/christianity1.html

The ”l” in ”html” was omitted.

@Brian1946 Thanks. That’s what I was trying to paste in.