Butch lesbians, can I ask this?

Why do you think they would want to be forced into gender roles, dress-codes included, that are traditionally mandated by the patriarchy, the same institution that condemns their lesbianism?

(1) There are plenty of straight women who dress how society would describe as “like men”.
(2) I don’t think most lesbians want to like women the way “straight men like women”. I think they want to like women the way lesbians like women, or the way that they—as an individual—like women without being concerned about other partnerships as I would assume for most relationships...
(3) I don’t think lesbianism has anything inherently to do with being trans-identified.
(4) I don’t think there should be a standard for how women “should” dress, regardless of sexuality.

I wasn’t aware that our fashion tastes were dictated by our DNA or our sexual partners.

My husband dresses like a 14 year old boy. That doesn’t make me a paedophile.

@Seek_Kolinahr
That reminds me of a joke:
An acquaintance of mine once went to a bar with his girlfriend. They called him a paedo, just because he was 50 and she was 21.

It totally ruined their 10th anniversary.

I’m a femme lesbian who likes gay male porn with two “bear type” guys. Just thought that I’d through that in.

@Seek_Kolinahr

Never ask permission to express yourself in a question.

It appears weak.

@ragingloli Why do you think they would want to be forced into gender roles, dress-codes included, that are traditionally mandated by the patriarchy, the same institution that condemns their lesbianism?
<PASSED>—irrelevant to the question.

@muppetish (1) There are plenty of straight women who dress how society would describe as “like men”.
As for this area, those women who dress on the masculine side don’t try to have masculine mannerisms to go with how they dress, but most of the lesbians (at least those outward and notorious about their sexuality) display manly mannerisms along with their dressing like men and having hair like men; not the same with straight women who dress sort of manly but not 90% or better 24/7.

(2) I don’t think most lesbians want to like women the way “straight men like women”.
Silky smooth gams, pert knockers, long flowing hair, etc. has no affect on attracting a lesbian to another female, huh? Strange I could swear on past threads those who are gay alluded to certain hooks that attracted them to other women that was so close to straight men I could not slide a playing card between them.

(3) I don’t think lesbianism has anything inherently to do with being trans-identified.
I did not think so. However, that still provides no answers or even a hint of one as to why those lesbians who choose to dress like men, act very similar to men, be it consciously or subconsciously.

(4) I don’t think there should be a standard for how women “should” dress, regardless of sexuality.
<PASSED>—No one said anything about standards.

@Seek_Kolinahr _ I wasn’t aware that our fashion tastes were dictated by our DNA or our sexual partners. My husband dresses like a 14 year old boy._
Seeing a lot of people have a narrow view of what pedophilia really is, I won’t waste time on that. I will just leave it at his dressing like a teen, as you believe by your observation, has more to do with him, than you. my comment you your non-answer.

Hormonal balance, perhaps?

A role?

I have noticed this as I lived in the Bay Area, but I do not know of any studies done on this subject. Mu opinion does not matter here, so YOU can research this one.

^^^ This was intended for the OP, @Hypocrisy_Central

Sorry @Seek_Kolinahr

^^^^^ An acquaintance of mine once went to a bar with his girlfriend. They called him a paedo, just because he was 50 and she was 21.
A glaring example how many-(maybe a lot) do not really know what they think about pedophilia.

NP, @SecondHandStoke I knew what you meant. ^_^

@Hypocrisy_Central Way to miss the punchline on Loli’s joke.

I’ve known you a long time, Hypo, and I’m not sure if I’ve told you this before, but your complete and total objectification of my half of the species is utterly sickening.

I am bi and mainly attracted to butch women (as far as women go). That’s all I can add. This question has my head in a tornado. There are so many reasons why people do what they do. Most of which have nothing to do with what you stated.

*throw that in

Some women dress in a masculine manner because they reject what society says women should do just because they’re women.

Some women dress in a masculine manner because they like it.

Plus a few thousand more reasons.

Some women are attracted to some women who dress in a masculine manner for the same (thousands of) reasons.

Some people think it doesn’t matter how people dress and don’t care why they dress that way.

@Hypocrisy_Central: “Why not be two women who dress like women but want to sex up each other?”

Can I rephrase this for you. It sounds like you are saying….

“Since I am morally opposed to homosexuality – except for lady-on-lady sexy time stuff – I would prefer to see women who are my type engaged in sexy stuff…preferably right in front of me. Thanks.”

Don’t want to misrepresent your position. Is this correct?

^^^ Ding ding ding!!!!

@ tom_g

Good one!!

@syz Some women dress in a masculine manner because they like it.
First off let me thank you for actually TAKING A STAB AT THE QUESTION. :-D I wonder why others find it so hard?

Sure some women like it, if they didn’t I would not be asking this question. The crux is that most women I know or see do it on a systemic basis are butch women; I see some straight women wear some apparel made for men but very seldom. I have not personally known any women who shop as much in the men’s’ section for clothes as the female section. How many female Flutheronians shop 50/50 between the men and women’s clothing isle? I bet not many.

Some women dress in a masculine manner because they reject what society says women should do just because they’re women.
You are saying those gay women who dress butch and even get mannish haircuts are akin to the poor people who break themselves buying expensive clothes and good as to spite society?

@tom_g “Since I am morally opposed to homosexuality – except for lady-on-lady sexy time stuff – I would prefer to see women who are my type engaged in sexy stuff…preferably right in front of me. Thanks.”
Don’t want to misrepresent your position. Is this correct?

I would just take a pass because this has nothing to do with the question, but for giggles and expose you as a poor purveyor of clairvoyance; you are WRONG again, but you will keep trying. If I wanted to watch lesbian sex there would be no clothes to contend with. I will throw you a bone, in my carnal self, if I were to still be there, seeing two hot lesbians might have been hot even in a buzz cut. Oh, another bone I will toss you; I maybe oppose to homosexuality but it is universal for men as well as women; I can love who the person his but I don’t have to love their actions. I have friends who are addicts trying to kick their addiction and those who have, I don’t have to like WHAT THEY DO to like them. –Lets see if you can remember that in the future—. Please, leave the soothsaying and psychic stuff to those quacks on early morning cable.

@Seek_Kolinahr I’ve known you a long time, Hypo, and I’m not sure if I’ve told you this before, but your complete and total objectification of my half of the species is utterly sickening.
I think you have along with redacted x 52. However, hasn’t been disproved; I can convince 500 people gravity doesn’t exist but they won’t fly off the planet. God bless you keep on with those opinions ;-p

Butch lesbians? Nice to see culture progressing.

@Adirondackwannabe Why do you say it like that?

@anniereborn Sorry, my sarcasm got the best of me.

I’m wondering how exactly he knows that every female he has seen wearing “men’s clothes” is a lesbian.

Let’s play a game:

At this moment, I’m wearing a pair of Levi’s blue jeans and a black t-shirt. I’m not wearing any makeup, but I do have longish hair. I haven’t dyed it in a while, so there’s about 2 inches of blonde over the red.

Name that sexual orientation!

WAIT! This might be important.

Sports bra under the t-shirt. It’s orange.

@Seek_Kolinahr You must be druid. Do you worship trees?
@anniereborn It’s just so sexist. Come on, this is 2013

@Adirondackwannabe actually some butch lesbians embrace that moniker. I have friends that do.

I am wearing black capris, a red striped shirt, a grey hoodie and mismatched sox. Answer…..clown.

@anniereborn That’s interesting. I’m thinking I shouldn’t label someone, but is it okay for them to embrace it?

@Adirondack some people hate labels, some find them necessary and some embrace them. I would say it’s a good idea not to use a label unless that specific person already uses it to identify themselves.

@anniereborn Nice. I like that. GA.

things that concern sexual orientation: who you like to bone
things that don’t concern sexual orientation: everything else

for example…

Fleece draw string shorts and a white t-shirt. No bra. Tays in the wind!

Maybe for the same reason that I as a straight female, like guys who dress like This and have long hair. But I also like guys who wear jeans and T-shirts, and men who wear suits and have short hair (or even bald men) and men who wear figure skating outfits, and men who wear scuba diving suits, and men who wear firemen’s uniforms and men who wear nothing at all. Just depends on my mood. People like different things. I think you’re trying to read to much into it, because you are still mystified by lesbians (even though you’ll come on here and say you’re not, or that my answer has nothing to do with what you asked etc. etc. etc. like you always do) Just face the fact that ALL people have different likes/tastes/desires. It’s not rocket science.

@Mama_Cakes That’s hot. You have this straight male horny.
@Kardamom I’m working on my fifth day of scruff. No shaving at all.

@Mama_Cakes Lurve for the creative Nell reference. :)

@Adirondackwannabe ; P

@Kardamom ; P

Night guys. I’m beat.

Sleep tight.

I mean, on the contrary, I see a ton of guys who dress and act “effeminately” who are gay and into like-minded guys.
But I don’t care about anyone’s sexuality, and neither should you.

This question makes me weep for humanity. I could address each and every idiotic point here, but… fuck it. Life’s too short.

@Hypocrisy_Central What do men dress like? What do women dress like? I really would like the answer to these questions.

You see, I’m a drag queen, and I am suddenly frightened that I may have been doing it wrong all these years.

I fucked the wife once while wearing one of her dresses, she was wearing nowt but one of my football shirts, that must mean either I have the fashion sense of David Beckham, or I want to hump him…you learn something new every day.

@Hypocrisy_Central ”Some women dress in a masculine manner because they reject what society says women should do just because they’re women.
You are saying those gay women who dress butch and even get mannish haircuts are akin to the poor people who break themselves buying expensive clothes and good as to spite society?”

Huh?

Look, when I was married, I got pressure constantly from friends, family, and strangers; “When are you having kids?”, “Why haven’t you had a baby yet?”, “You go on trips without your husband?” , “Your husband let’s you have your own friends?”, and so on and on and on….everything from what my house looked like, to what kind of car I drove, how I dressed….....these were all societal norms that I was expected to conform to.

That was just the married part. As a woman, I’ve spent a lifetime of “You have to do your hair and makeup before going out”, “Sit with your knees together, that’s not ladylike”, “If you participate in sports everyone will think you’re a lesbian”, “You need to learn to cook so you can catch a man”.........more societal norms that are bullshit.

So if I have decided that what matters is how I feel, rather than how others feel about me, then if I decide I want to dress like a man, then, fuck it, I’ll dress like a man.

If I want to make a point about societal norms and gender roles and fluid sexuality, then I’ll dress like a man.

If I want to send a signal to another woman that I don’t care about hair and makeup and nail polish and jewelry and uncomfortable clothes and being submissive, then maybe I’ll dress like a man.

Or maybe I’ll do it just to get a rise out of people who are too easily offended.

@syz Nice. GA

@ucme

Awesome.

Have fun with that.

It has nothing to do with their sexuality, I guess they feel more comfortable like that. No matter what they wear they’re still 100% female,

Clothes come essentially in two styles.

Those intended for men and those that are for women.

If a woman (of any sexual orientation) discovers that her tastes run to the masculine then men’s clothing could very will be employed.

Like many things, not all, this is relative.

It’s like a personal style Kinsey Scale.

Lesbians, like everyone else, pick and choose among the style elements available.

My lesbian cousin (sounds like a film title doesn’t it?) wears men’s shirts. She has a slew of Doc Marten’s shoes to match her shirt’s color. Sometimes her hair is very long, sometimes short.

She’s also understandably irked that having a men’s shirt cleaned costs $1.99, a womens, $4.99.

When needed she rocks the women’s suit. She hates shopping and has me help her whenever possible. She was the best man at my wedding. Given our relationship and feelings about each other I never considered anyone else. She looked awesome in the suit we picked out.

I bet my fundie grandmother quietly shit egg rolls when I casually used the term Best Man. Oh well, can’t please everyone. Besides, this is my wedding, this is MY day! It goes without saying that I looked awesome.

Cousin once asked how I thought she was perceived by others in the know, I said Soft Butch. She seemed happy with that description.

She has most certainly cultivated her own sense of style. I bet she’s doing a lot better than many of us regardless of sexual tastes.

One should be mentally as well and physically comfortable in their chosen style.

@SecondHandStoke I did.

They feel like wearing the clothes. What does it matter? Look at all of the male queens out there. People dress on the outside how they feel on the inside. That’s their right. They relate more to a male essence. Otherwise, they most likely wouldn’t be gay.

Who are we to question? Their birth, their death, their life. A good way to get around that is to look into their eyes. That would negate a great deal of social profiling.

“Dress me up in women’s clothes.

Messed around with gender roles.

Dye my eyes call me prrriiityyyyyyyyeeeeee.

-Laid by James.

Sit Down next to me…

…me?

No, James.

“But she only comes when she’s on top.”

I was hooked…

Shit, I’m gonna play it again.

Loud.

Edit: Damn, this song still gives me goosebumps.

I can’t hear it without chuckling a little at myself.

No other song I know of reminds me of how even the misery of my past felt strangely good.

The drama and intensity of immature relationships. Clubbing as her girlfriend. The glass of wine in the face. Holding her head down by the jaw…

How can I still miss it so much it hurts?

I need a drink.

Let me get to the pertinent comments so I can get back to online shopping. The others can just lurva up; being the catalyst to their rapid rise to the next mansion makes me feel like Fluther Claus.

@Seek_Kolinahr I’m wondering how exactly he knows that every female he has seen wearing “men’s clothes” is a lesbian.
Are you reading the same question I wrote? I NEVER said that EVERY woman in men’s clothes or that act mannish was a lesbians. What I said was that some, maybe more than a few, lesbians around HERE, and that was an important qualifier, that was open and notorious about them being gay acted and dressed like men. They may behave differently where you are. There have been straight women who wore articles of clothing that were made for men, but you did not see them wearing men’s clothes exclusively or near so as the lesbians I am speaking of who make it an aim to wear men’s clothes AND, wait for it, REJECT wearing any clothes of women, though some acquiesce and rock a bra. Please read the question more carefully, but if it helps you lurve, then read it wrong; as well as any others.

@dxs But I don’t care about anyone’s sexuality, and neither should you.
If I cared I would try to legislate it, and I am not. If people of a certain area or income bracket drove their cars backward, if it were legal to do so, you would not wonder why, even if you don’t care where they are driving to or how much insurance they carry? I simply wondered why nearly every straight woman, and I know because they said they were straight, can wear men’s clothes and not act mannish, but more than half of the lesbian I SEEN who wear men’s clothes ACT MANNISH, as if what team they decided to play for played a factor.

@Hawaii_Jake What do men dress like? What do women dress like? I really would like the answer to these questions.
You never been shopping? Men will buy clothes that are in the MEN’S section of the store and likewise for women. That is why when I go shopping if there are women in the men’s section I can bet my donuts to anyone’s dollars they are buying it for their male spouse or children by the questions they act the clerk, other shoppers, or even me at times. When I look across the isle in the women’s section I can count the times I see a lone male on one hand and not running out of fingers. If it was designed for men, sold in the clothing stores or big box for men, then wearing them is dressed like a man. You disagree? Maybe you think they are wrong to have a men’s and women’s clothing section and it should all be just clothing, skirts in with slacks, panties in with boxers and whatever you feel to wear you choose?

“There have been straight women who wore articles of clothing that were made for men, but you did not see them wearing men’s clothes exclusively or near so as the lesbians I am speaking of who make it an aim to wear men’s clothes…”

Still want to know how you know which ones are straight and which are gay. Are you keeping a spreadsheet? Doing interviews in Walmart?

”Pardon me, madam, but I notice you’re wearing men’s jeans. Do you happen to be homosexual? No offense intended, but I’m keeping a tally. Can I sign you on as a lesbian then? Fantastic.”

”Maybe you think they are wrong to have a men’s and women’s clothing section and it should all be just clothing, skirts in with slacks, panties in with boxers and whatever you feel to wear you choose?”

That sounds great, actually. Can they have a standardized size system as well? I’m so tired of trying to figure out which brands use waist measurements and which do vanity sizing.

^ Edited.

@Hypocrisy_Central I think that maybe your question just doesn’t make sense to me then. “Why not be two women who dress like women but want to sex up each other?” People want to be who they want to be, not who you want them to be or who you suggest they should be. No “guy-dressing lady” has any obligation to answer this question without saying something other than “because I can/ because I want to”, so I don’t know why you’d ask it if you didn’t care. I can’t see how there’s any other legitimate answer to that, so to me it’s a loaded question, unless you are completely oblivious to the fact that people don’t actually have to follow social norms.

@Seek_Kolinahr Still want to know how you know which ones are straight and which are gay.
I did mention they were upfront, open and notorious about their gayness didn’t I? Let me make it plain…..THEY SAID SO, or they gave enough info such as, ”I don’t do men”, “I am queer”, “This is my girlfriend” (as in lover), you know clues even a chimp could follow; a half brain dead chimp at that.

@dxs No “guy-dressing lady” has any obligation to answer this question without saying something other than “because I can/ because I want to”, so I don’t know why you’d ask it if you didn’t care.
OUTSTANDING, what a genius idea, we can close down the social part of Fluther and stick with just the general. If it is a question that doesn’t have a specific answer, IE place fuse board #2114 in the back of your Kenmore dryer like…we already know the answer. The reason why a lotto winner kicks his long time squeeze out of the house and out of his life; BECAUSE HE CAN, the rest of you need wonder why or pose any questions about it, just know HE CAN, and go read up on the weather. Caring and curiosity is not hand in hand. To wonder WHY they do it has no bearing my like or dislike of their lesbian behavior. I don’t think on it or care what they do at home anymore than they would care if I broke wind in an empty elevator.

^ Dude. Chillax. You’re doing an inordinate amount of shouting. Being loud doesn’t make you right.

With all respect, @Hypocrisy_Central, your analogies are horrendous.
If people drove backwards in an area, then I’d be concerned for society’s safety because people get used to driving habits and having a backwards driver on a forward-driving road can present a threat. The question about the guy winning the lottery was about whether or not the others in the family were entitled to the money. It wasn’t questioning his motives.
Lastly,
“If I cared I would try to legislate it, and I am not.” Legislate what? Sexuality? How? I’m not sure what you’re getting at.

Notorious gayness? What’s that???

Oh, just so you know, I shop mostly at thrift stores, and because my waist to hip ratio is about equal (I’ve always been kind of straight up and down, rather than curvaceous) I usually have to buy men’s pants and shorts because they fit me better. I am 100% straight. No one ever mistook me for a butch lesbian (although some people have thought that me and my best friend were lesbians only because we’re together all the time, and 2 of the girls in our group are actually lesbians, so some people just assumed we all were, hee hee).

Also, I would love to dress like This if I could afford one of these ensembles. I think they’re effing awesome! Yes, I get that they’re wearing skirts, but these skirts are for men. The women’s Scottish attire is more frilly, however, the females that are in piper’s bands, wear the same type of kilts as the men. Go figure.

@Seek_Kolinahr You’re doing an inordinate amount of shouting. Being loud doesn’t make you right.
Getting handed tons of lurve don’t either. However, if it seem to be shouting, it has a way of making dull hearing keener.

@dxs The question about the guy winning the lottery was about whether or not the others in the family were entitled to the money. It wasn’t questioning his motives.
Still no more relevant than what motivates certain lesbians to dress as their mannerisms seem to dictate. Asking if his family, g/f, barber, etc are entitled to any money is irrelevant unless you are in a similar situation and need to know in regard to your case; otherwise there is no need to muse over it, they will not get a penny more than what was coming to them, if any by talking about it.

You are much more concerned with my lurve score than I am, sweetie.

I’m just really over these “Them thar wimmin’ ain’t doin’ what I like!” questions.

@Kardamom I’d like a Tartan outfit, but I’d prefer a brat over a kilt.

I can’t find a picture, but a brat is the predecessor to the kilt – it’s a unisex garb piece (because the early Celts didn’t worry about bullshit like “men’s” and “women’s” clothing) that’s basically a cloak that’s 2 times as wide as you are tall, and you pin it ‘round your shoulders, then wrap it ‘round your waist, then belt and blouse it for coverage and comfort.

Ah! Here we go

@Seek_Kolinahr Wasn’t the kilt worn similarly, in its earliest form? More wrapping, less pinning?

Yes, a correctly worn Great Kilt should use only one pin.

The OP of this thread, @Hypocrisy_Central, is spewing nothing but hate. I’m outta here.

You hate “fat chicks”, you hate “butch lesbians”, what else do you hate? Skinny bitches with small boobs? What? Totally ridiculous.

Really, it’s as simple as this: People dress and cut their hair and act in a wide variety of ways – in whatever ways make them feel good. Likewise, people are attracted to other people with a wide variety of clothing styles, haircuts and personalities. None of that has anything to do with their sexual orientation, which is why you’re getting such shit for this question.

I’m a tomboy, and when my now-husband met and fell in love with me, my hair was very short. Personality-wise, I’m much more like “one of the guys” than a “girly-girl”. By your logic, why would he be attracted to me? He just is.

@Katniss you should hear his list of requirements for a potential brood mare partner.

Regarding big girls and fashion:

I grew up in the late ‘80’s and ‘90’s when big girls were still trying to hide their size with clothing.

I remember the very first time I saw a girl who was clearly rocking her thickness instead.

This would have been 1993 I think. I remember thinking “Things are never going to be the same.”

They haven’t. Over time fashion responded: http://www.torrid.com/torrid/Homepage.jsp

Wo0t! More variety!

@Seek_Kolinahr

Brood mare? Hawt if she’s self confident enough to be into it.

@Hypocrisy_Central

My goth style crossdressing days behind me (I feel that once you reach a certain age you really have to know what you’re doing to avoid looking tragic) I still wear a handful of articles of women’s clothing:

Flip flops: The women’s sizes fit more correctly.

Driving shoes: The men’s aren’t available in the purple???

A velour vest: Women’s size 22 custom cut to fit, matches a vintage velour jacket I have.

Trousers: Size 14, fit me better than her anyway. Stripes! Whee!!

Makeup (sometimes): Foundation: An even skin tone represents advantages for nearly everyone. Why have 5o’clock shadow all the time?
Mascara: Clear or dark brown depending. My lashes are blonde. Let’s make the eyes pop a little. Clear at work (These days any reason to fire someone is a good one).
Eyeliner: Social and way after 6 only.

Mom: You’re skin still looks great.
Me: I’m cheating.

General rule of men’s everyday makeup: It should never be obvious that you’re wearing it.

Welcome to the 21st Century Toots.

Correction:
“General rule of men’s everyday makeup: Don’t.”

@ragingloli

Subversion takes more forms than the ones you enjoy from behind the refuge of a laptop.

@SecondHandStoke Unfortunately for @Hypocrisy_Central, his prerequisites don’t include much room for the lady to be both an acceptable size for him and have adequate reproductive function to bear the five children he requires. 5’7 and 120 lbs, wasn’t it, Hypo?

Of course, I don’t know how he’d be able to conceive the last four, since he finds women who have already borne children to be obviously repulsive. I believe the term he used was “non-starter”.

@SecondHandStoke Subversion takes more forms than the ones you enjoy from behind the refuge of a laptop.”

Best thing I’ve seen on the internet today. :)

@Seek_Kolinahr

This site claims “we are all experts.”

And we are, just not experts at everything.

So His expertise doesn’t include the subject of women.

I wouldn’t worry about it much.

@glacial

Glad to be of service.

@Seek_Kolinahr Does she have to be Barbie Doll perfect? lol

@SecondHandStoke Nice! Guy liner is hot!

Oh yes. And Christian. And submissive. And her breasts have to pass the “pencil test” (another reason he’ll never get past kid #1)

I tried my damnedest to find the post in which he outlined those ridiculous requirements, but it was on a question where the post didn’t really make sense so I don’t remember the question, and googling parts of his answer that I could remember verbatim didn’t show up anything.

What is a pencil test?

@ragingloli You fail if you can stick a pencil under your boob and it stays. Supposedly this means you need a bra. I say fuck that.

@Katniss You hate “fat chicks”, you hate “butch lesbians”, what else do you hate? Skinny bitches with small boobs? What? Totally ridiculous.
If you are going to try to put out information, it should at least be accurate, less you become a mistress of misinformation. I don’t hate “fat chicks”. I have female friends that are fat, and I don’t hate them. I know females who are not friends but I know them and I don’t love them over my friends just because they are thin. My not dating a “fat chick”, as you call them, has nothing to do about my liking them as people. Show me where I said I hate butch or mannish acting lesbians? I am waiting….. What is totally ridiculous is to get hot under the color because one cannot find even a sliver of an answer to a simple question.

FYI: Skinny bitches with small boobs would get 100,000,000×10,000,000,000,000,000,000 more play than, what did you call them, “fat chicks” would ever get; now that you can quote me on.

Does she have to be Barbie Doll perfect? Lol
Why no, I have never seen a perfect Barbie Doll woman, and would not want one. Some would be more than happy if I had a perfect Shamu! LOL You would never see me harpooning her. Har, har, har.

@augustlan People dress and cut their hair and act in a wide variety of ways – in whatever ways make them feel good. Likewise, people are attracted to other people with a wide variety of clothing styles, haircuts and personalities.
Yes, there is no dispute there. However lets take this approach, if you seen a person who thought they were an alien so they choose attire that conjured up extraterrestrial thinking, or even extraterrestrial costumes you would just assume they love the fit and the cut and it had nothing whatsoever, to do with their belief that they are not of this world; their dressing like an alien was just coincidence? If that is what you and the greater part of this collective is thinking, I am sorry I asked. Next time I ask anything I will make it far, far simpler so it can be grasped better. They can sling all the s*** they want, their aim is way off.

@Seek_Kolinahr Unfortunately for @Hypocrisy_Central, his prerequisites don’t include much room for the lady to be both an acceptable size for him and have adequate reproductive function to bear the five children he requires. 5’7 and 120 lbs, wasn’t it, Hypo?
I have my size and those who want to be “chubby chasers” have theirs. If that is what makes their boat float they can Captain Ahab away; they will never, ever have to worry about me around their spouse, I would hardly be looking in her direction. That was 4’9” to 123lb or less, but heck, more power to those who want 5’6 258lb or better; better them than me.

And her breasts have to pass the “pencil test” (another reason he’ll never get past kid #1)
Nah, just those who redacted; as we have seen from a mom of multiple young boys you can still put 20somethings to shame even after 3 kids, so that statement or belief hold no water.

I tried my damnedest to find the post in which he outlined those ridiculous requirements,
Why are they ridiculous? Would it be less ridiculous if my requirements were she was as heavy as a container ship, have more butter than a dairy, and be as big around as the planet Jupiter? Would that make it more acceptable to you? Since you would not be in any relationship with such person, who is good for me is good for me, so it is in no way ridiculous. Your opinions, however off base, are appreciated, do you want me to find it for you, I am sure I have a copy saved somewhere..

^^ While proper bra fitting is as much art as science I seriously would like to see more bralessnes.

I’ll call it the Ripley effect.

@SecondHandStoke whatup.

^Thank you.

@Hypocrisy_Central I don’t think we need things simplified. You’re the one having trouble grasping things, here.

People dress and act however they like, and are attracted to whoever they’re attracted to, whether they’re gay or straight. Being gay =/= wishing you were another gender or being attracted only to the stereotypical example of your own gender. Being straight =/= being attracted only to the extreme opposite of your gender. Why is this so confusing to you?

Look, I used to have a serious thing for ‘pretty boys’ (some of my boyfriends were prettier than I was!), and lots of other straight women like pretty boys, too. Plenty of straight guys have a thing for tomboys. Likewise, some gay women have a thing for tomboys and some gay guys like pretty boys. So what does sexual orientation have to do with it? Hint: nothing.

Also, you consistently use ‘seen’ when you should use ‘saw’. “If you seen a person” is not correct English.

^^ Right on sister!

HP seems to constantly be doing the dance of seven veils, only in his case they’re veils of misogyny and homophobia.

He claims not to hate (or disparage, if that is a less horrible offence) women, but yet he makes statements with ugly terms for women like:

Some would be more than happy if I had a perfect Shamu!

I have my size and those who want to be “chubby chasers” have theirs. If that is what makes their boat float they can Captain Ahab away

Nice, 2 references to women being fat like whales in a row, very creative.

Oh and don’t forget this beauty:

Would it be less ridiculous if my requirements were she was as heavy as a container ship, have more butter than a dairy, and be as big around as the planet Jupiter?

I wonder whether it was his mother or father who taught him how to refer to women in such ugly terms. I wonder if he’d be happy and excited, or even turned on, to call his mother by any of these ugly names.

@augustlan So what does sexual orientation have to do with it? Hint: nothing.
Let’s just cut the BS and all the Gregory Hines hat dancing and by a show of yea or nay who believes that a butch lesbian with male mannerisms choice to dress like a man predominately, (if not exclusively) is mere coincidence?

@Hypocrisy_Central but what would that say about femme lesbians? That they aren’t real lesbians? What about straight tomboys? Are they secretly gay?

You can’t cookie-cutter people like that. If there is a connection between more butch presentation among some lesbians, it might just be that they don’t want to attract male attention and thus dress in ways that are contrary to what our culture marks as a sexual attractant to the opposite sex. That’s right. I said it. They aren’t dressing to impress men. And neither are the femme lesbians ;)

Does it really matter? If it makes them happy, then more power to them!

@Hypocrisy_Central The only person tap dancing here is you. You are making overly broad generalizations, so people can’t answer the question directly; they don’t agree with the underlying premises. This means that in order to try to address the question at all, they must first set straight what you’ve got wrong. But all you seem to be doing is rejecting their explanations, and insisting that the world behaves the way you think it should. That’s not going to get you an answer to your question.

I love them all:

I want a pet tomboy too.

I’d crop her hair into a crewcut.

Have her wear domestic partner beaters and cargo pants.

Forbid bras and makeup, and rub dirty grease into her nails.

If shes a good boy i“ll let her choose her style of men’s undies.

^ Ha, “domestic partner beaters”.

That’s hilarious.

It’s no problem.

No, really.

<< Wears domestic partner beaters, is braless as often as possible, and rarely wears makeup. How you doin’ @SecondHandStoke? ;)

(Internet swoon)

@glacial The only person tap dancing here is you. You are making overly broad generalizations, so people can’t answer the question directly; they don’t agree with the underlying premises.
Big swing and a miss. What I am seeking is at least an answer like @fundevogel that I can take out of the bank and hold up to the light, not that is just the way they do it so…… Not wanting to attract men I can see, which I guess that would be why they act like men so no man will even think of then in the sense of being a woman. I can get that. Too many people are trying to go at it like, when I drop my hotdog and it falls to the ground, gravity had nothing really to do with it, the hotdog just decided it would rather fall to Earth than float to the Moon.

@Hypocrisy_Central

“Not wanting to attract men I can see, which I guess that would be why they act like men so no man will even think of then in the sense of being a woman.”

Doesn’t work that way.

The number of us with open minds regarding all this is growing.

My generation and the ones that follow are blurring the lines.

Step out of the way as to not be trampled by those of us rushing toward those we find attractive for their individual and unique forms.

And please don’t compare hot dogs to women, either. They are not similar. Hot dogs are not sentient beings. Women don’t simply dress the way they want (or the way that you despise) because of gravity. It ain’t rocket science. They dress that way, because they like to and they can. Why do you alway many, many, many times have to try to find some psycho-sexual reason for why people do things, rather than just chalking it up to preference?

I’m just curious if there is a psycho-sexual reason for why you ask all of these sexually charged, mysogyinistic, homophobic questions? Is it because your mother was smothering, or too distant, or because your father sexually abused you, or cheated on your mother with dirty whores? Or is it simply because you’re a dude and you think that as a male you’re superior, yet haven’t matured enough to stop thinking exclusively with your penis? Or is there some other underlying reason? You seem to be obsessed with secret underlying reasons for why other people do what they do, maybe we should be obsessed with figuring out why you do what you do, because it doesn’t seem to fit society norms.

Mods, please don’t look upon this as a personal attack on @Hypocrisy_Central. It’s not, it’s just an illustration of how he words his questions about women and gays, only I’ve changed the subject to him, rather than women and gays, and asked the same question of why he is the way he is.

^ hot dog’s aren’t sentient beings?

SHIT!

@SecondHandStoke Well some wienies do seem to have a mind of their own~

Am I going to have to be the one to mention the ultimate dominant lesbian undergarment accessory?

@Kardamom And please don’t compare hot dogs to women, either. They are not similar. Hot dogs are not sentient beings. Women don’t simply dress the way they want (or the way that you despise) because of gravity.
Again, the point is missed. I guess what you are trying to say without saying it, is that a lesbian who cats like a man, and dresses like one two was just a coincidence. Those women who would dress like a man but are straight (tomboys) it is a mere coincidence they might dress like men often but never seem to want to act like men because of it. Is that what you are saying or do you Have another non-answer you want to entertain?

I’m just curious if there is a psycho-sexual reason for why you ask all of these sexually charged, mysogyinistic, homophobic questions?
First of the question or others are not charged with misogynistic, (see I can spell the word) or homophobic tendencies; it just appears like that to you; and others who think as you, but feel free to have your little opinions.

Is it because your mother was smothering, or too distant, or because your father sexually abused you, or cheated on your mother with dirty whores? Or is it simply because you’re a dude and you think that as a male you’re superior, yet haven’t matured enough to stop thinking exclusively with your penis?
Better get a refund on your powers of clairvoyance, they are not working, wrong on all counts. If I were stuck thinking with my penis I would still be neck deep in fornication and serving my flesh as many here are, oops I should not have reminded them of that-OH SNAP

@Hypocrisy_Central When nearly every single person answers your question(s) the same way, does it ever occur to you that maybe you are the one who is wrong?

@augustlan

No. Of course not. Hypo has a direct mental line to god, you see, so his every thought is sanctioned by the almighty and is 100% accurate. We poor sinners are lucky he’s bothering to cast his pearls before us.

I actually had someone invoke the “pearls before swine” line in lieu of addressing my criticism of her argument once. It was incredibly rude and childish, inversely related to the height of the horse she was trying to sit on I’m sure.

This question has about as much insight and class as when George Costanza queried:

“Which one of you leads when you dance?”

Though I feel I possess enough meek charm to have gotten away with it.

Don’t misread me: I am not one of those smug righteous “enlightened” types that has no tolerance whatsoever for those that aren’t “fully informed” on hot button topics such as homosexuality.

Sometimes I don’t know what side makes me groan more.

Did I just use the word “tolerance”? Ugh, I’m slipping…

@glacial @Seek_Kolinahr

I used to wear a kilt, over very hole riddled jeans and under an leather jacket in high school.

@Hawaii_Jake

Hate: We have zero proof that @Hypocrisy_Central‘s questions are motivated by hatred.

“Homophobia” is often a manipulative misnomer frequently used to deride an individual that isn’t on precisely the same page as another is regarding the subject.

Certainly there ARE genuine examples of homophobia but we wouldn’t want to make assumptions in less obvious cases.

@SecondHandStoke Did you wear guyliner??

^Sadly no.

Hadn’t even occurred to me.

@augustlan When nearly every single person answers your question(s) the same way, does it ever occur to you that maybe you are the one who is wrong?
Because all the great minds at one time thought the Sun rose and set was because it circled the Earth, and earth was the center of the universe, they were correct because they all agreed?

Some have given answers worth merit and thought. Others simply want to say it is just because it is. If it is just because it is, then have a plausible explanation at so why most who do act like how they dress when tomboys don’t act the way they dress; then maybe I will have something to hang a hat on.

@Hypocrisy_Central I’m not saying we’re right because we all disagree with you on this one question. I’m talking about your whole history of questions. If you look back over them, you’re sure to find that you are in a minority of one, nearly every single time. Doesn’t that suggest something to you?

Surely you can’t believe that out of all these people, you’re the only one who is ever right (about everything). Or do you? If so, that might be a mental health issue. :p

Fact from fiction, truth from diction: seven years, Auggie, I’ve seen these questions from him.

Then of course there is the obvious issue:
He starts the question with ”butch lesbians”

^ Should he have said lipstick lesbians when he meant butch ones?

Lesbians identify with these terms.

They are not in need of our rescue.

I’ve wondered this same thing, actually. It seems to me that when there is a couple, either a lesbian couple or gay males, one takes on the male role and the other takes on the female role. Why is that?

And why do we have separate terms for homosexual men and women?

@Dutchess_III In some same sex pairings, one or the other may be more ‘feminine’, but it’s certainly not the case universally. The fact that people think it is is probably due to only noticing such couples. When two ‘feminine’ females are walking around, people assume they’re friends. Same for two ‘masculine’ guys.

On the other hand is there anything more tragic looking than a gay couple who’s members look exactly alike?

@Dutchess_III It seems to me that interpreting homosexual couples as taking ‘male’ and ‘female’ roles within in their relationships is probably more on us than them. I mean, that really gets into a whole gender morass about what constitutes ‘male’ vs ‘female’ behavior. Our culture certainly has expectations of what is ‘male’ and what is ‘female’ but I expect what is usually meant is closer to dominant or submissive, leader or follower, breadwinner or caregiver. None of these things are inherently gendered nor or are they absolute.

@SecondHandStoke What…like twins? I thought that was a fetish all it’s own.

To add to what @fundevogel and I said, when we see a man with a tomgirlish woman, nobody bats an eye. If that same woman were with another woman, many would assume she’s gay.

@augustlan I’m talking about your whole history of questions. If you look back over them, you’re sure to find that you are in a minority of one, nearly every single time. Doesn’t that suggest something to you?
Oh yeah, it suggests something, but I won’t let it out hear less there be more fodder for the canons. I would say over the totality of my questions way too many spent time questioning the question or my motive for asking them instead of answering the question. The lowest bar that suggest to me is that without a valid answer to the question, all you have left is to attack the question.

Surely you can’t believe that out of all these people, you’re the only one who is ever right (about everything).
They first have to have an open opinion I can hand something on. They may have some points but they don’t make them; they just waste time trying to debunk the question rather then getting into it and answering it from the position the question was asked.

To add to what @fundevogel and I said, when we see a man with a tomgirlish woman, nobody bats an eye. If that same woman were with another woman, many would assume she’s gay.
I don’t unless she swaps spit with the woman she is with or holding hands like lovers. If she says she is, then why would I doubt her?