Social Question

DWW25921's avatar

Is there really a proper way to administer wife beatings?

Asked by DWW25921 (5820 points ) December 25th, 2013

Yikes… I was looking for boxing, wrestling and general roughness when I surfed on up to this… Your thoughts?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-Tw7WhH_aQ

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108 Answers

zenvelo's avatar

You sure that’s not translated into arabic from the Promise Keepers?

Yes, more patriarchal nonsense promoting violence against women. It’s found in the most conservative factions of all the Abrahamic religions.

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

From six months ago on this topic.

Oddly the same video.

downtide's avatar

It’s not really practical to resurrect a six-month-old thread. People are probably not following it any more and anyone who didn’t participate first time round wouldn’t see it.

ragingloli's avatar

Oh man. Yep. Most evil in the world is perpetrated by men, and it is women that are in need of “discipline”. Logic.
And beating your wife is acceptable to force her to have sex with you. Good old abrahamic morality.

Lightlyseared's avatar

Any Arabic speakers want to confirm the accuracy of the subtitles?

cazzie's avatar

Using force to get a woman to have sex with you = RAPE. Assholes. Swine assholes.

ibstubro's avatar

The husband can’t raise his arms above chest level, can’t leave marks and cannot ruin the wife’s face.

The wife can’t raise her knee above waist high, cannot leave marks and cannot ruin the husband’s hands.

Seems fair to me.

;-)

kritiper's avatar

Use a rolled-up newspaper.

El_Cadejo's avatar

@Lightlyseared that was the first thing I thought as well. I mean it’s on youtube, very likely been subbed by a racist troll.

DWW25921's avatar

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies I really had no idea…

@uberbatman Maybe… It’s a shame it’s even a topic for discussion whether it’s real or not.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@zenvelo I have to take issue with your statement not only about Promise Keepers, I have known a few personally and that is not what is taught at all.

Although I agree that some religions subjugate women, that does NOT mean we are all abused or that you could hold us down in life even if you tried. The whole point was being submissive to a man who is submissive to God. Acknowledging your husband as spiritual leader of your household, which is often not the case now either.

As to the video – hitting people where it can’t be seen is old news, and no one does me any favors disciplining me as an adult woman. That really peeves me off tbh.

MadMadMax's avatar

Christian Domestic Discipline (CDD)

Christians who believe in traditional Christian marriage, with the husband as the head of the household, and the wife as his helpmeet. The “helpmeat’ has to be obedient.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@MadMadMax Supposed to be according to the Bible, but in reality, not so much. We’re just like everybody else, some of us get a little ‘uppity’...lol

Actually it’s kind of hard to describe. I do everything around the house like cooking and cleaning, but I also work full time, do the bills/ checkbook and even the yardwork sometimes because I love it. Traditional roles don’t always mean anything in daily life. If we fight, I’m not sitting there quiet and meek, a lot of you know me better than that. We really are pretty much equals in our life together and if anything, I’m more of a spiritual leader in our home.

DWW25921's avatar

I don’t understand what being an “Abraham” religion has anything to do with a practice that’s only accepted in one of them.

@zenvelo I looked up “Promise Keepers” and it’s an “all inclusive” christian organization. That being said it’s doubtful there are any ultra conservatives in this group as they generally only associate with those within their own “bubble” as it were.

@downtide I really didn’t know! I was kind of horrified…

@Lightlyseared That would be nice. Surly there’s a few Fluthering around here somewhere… :)

@ibstubro My wife is a pretty good knife thrower… She’d have me dropped before I got within arms reach…

@uberbatman I doubt anyone made that up but for the sake of optimism and my faith in humanity I certainly hope so.

@KNOWITALL I had a pastor years ago (man) say that the only reason that men were the head of the household is because women were better at it and men needed to be challenged. Women do seem to be natural born leaders and having them at “wing man” status could challenge them to grow as well.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@DWW25921 I think the primary purpose of Promise Keepers is to keep families together, and to stop men from bailing as soon as it gets tough. Teaching men to be better husbands, etc… All I’ve ever seen are good thing’s, but I only know about three men who have participated.

DWW25921's avatar

@KNOWITALL I actually looked it up and it seems fine! Basic sort of Christian stuff, nothing out of the ordinary. Naturally being a Christian organization, it will be the recipient of mistrust and regularly assaulted by others… Such is the way of things. Although if you think about it, that probably means they’re doing it right being that we live in such a vehement anti-God culture.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@DWW25921 My uncle and my cousin went, they’re pretty square, but good people. As a Christian who has been turned off by fellow Christians, you can’t really blame them though right?!

We see so many so-called religious people doing horrible things, that it makes you wonder who’s real and who is just spouting the gospel for personal gain or to look pious, etc…. I can’t blame non-theists for having the same thoughts I do at times, but I do agree the anti-God culture is tiresome and is perceived as somewhat childish at times. :)

DWW25921's avatar

@KNOWITALL I’m also rather put off by Christians. There are just to many different kinds… The lack of consistency bothers me and it’s not a good testimony. That’s probably one of the reasons why Christianity makes for a good target.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

I’m assuming you’re not just looking for ‘no’ as an answer.

cazzie's avatar

Anyone mention this crap from the Christian side of insane? http://www.babble.com/mom/to-train-up-a-child-teaches-punishment-that-kills-kids/

Seek's avatar

http://www.christiandomesticdiscipline.com/

How to Discipline Your Wife

If you manage to read the following without an uncontrollable urge to vomit, you are stronger than I am.

“When administering physical discipline, take caution not to deliver the lashes anywhere but the buttocks. The first attempt at this punishment should only be delivered by hand so you can get an idea of how many lashings are needed. The best position will be for you to sit at the end of a bed or on a chair (with no arms) and have her lay across your lap. She can also bend over a bed with arms tucked under her chest and your left hand on the small of her back. If a strap (belt) is to be implemented watch that each stoke falls directly on the buttocks and not higher. EDITOR’S NOTE: When using the hand, or a small, short implement, such as a switch or small “hairbrush”-type paddle, over-the-knee positioning can work quite well.

A fearful wife may begin crying or pleading and find it difficult to remain still. Reassure her. of your intent and love (yes this will hurt, that is why it is a punishment) then instruct her to be still. Remind her that she is not in control of this discipline. You should continue the lashing through her tears and pleas for you to stop, until you are certain the message was received. This will insure her remorse and therefore stop the undesirable behavior.

A sound lashing is five to ten strokes with your hand, or three to five strokes with a strap; some wives need more. To avoid brusing do not strike the same area in repetition. Gauge your decision to proceed based on your wife’s readiness to repent.

You may find it difficult to cause your wife pain, but as a woman she needs the release of guilt that this form of punishment brings. Afterwards, help her up gently and hold her while allowing her to cry for as long as you both feel necessary. If you have children instruct her to wash her face before emerging from the room.

Remember to stay in control at all times so her faith in you is not rattled. Her reaction after the lashing will let you know if this punishment works for her. She should be genuinely remorseful, tearful, and sore, but have an overwhelming desire to please you.”

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Seek_Kolinahr Ugh, that is disgusting. What sect is that, it just says CDD?

In our churches here, even the strictest Fundamental Baptist where women didn’t wear pants, I NEVER heard of this crap.

“but as a woman she needs the release of guilt that this form of punishment brings” It makes women sound so helpless and powerless, I think that’s what peeves me off the most.

@DWW Have you studied FLDS at all? I tell you, some of the thing’s going on there make my stomach hurt, those child marriages to old men, etc… It’s hurtful to be lumped in with people like that.

DWW25921's avatar

@Seek_Kolinahr That’s seriously messed up. Thanks for sharing! I really don’t know how to respond to that but you’re right, it makes me sick.

@Simone_De_Beauvoir As seek brought up yet another example it would seem the answer to my initial question is a resounding yes…

@cazzie That’s pretty far out there. Thanks for sharing!

@KNOWITALL Child marriages are a disaster. I think kids should be allowed to be kids for as long as possible.

Seek's avatar

It’s not condoned by any specific sect, but those who practice it tend to be the Bible literalist types. They grab on to that “Submit yourselves unto your husbands” like it’s the most important thing in the entire book.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Seek_Kolinahr So does that mean I’m not a good Christian because I wouldn’t submit to a beating? ;)

ragingloli's avatar

Well, yes.

Seek's avatar

Hey, I’m not saying it’s a salvation issue, but the Word doesn’t say it isn’t.

^ And therein lies the standard Pentecostal justification for progressively more draconian rule-following.

MadMadMax's avatar

@Seek_Kolinahr Regarding: http://www.christiandomesticdiscipline.com/

That is what I was talking about. It is not rare or unusual and to me it’s one step away from women selling themselves into a Taliban position that just might devolve into biblical stoning of women and certainly limits their choices and abilities already.

This is just one part of today’s evangelical christian movement(s) that are truly repulsive.

I have dealt courteously with all the different Christian sects that have accosted me. It’s always my moral responsibility to be courteous for some reason but I am getting to a point in my life where I truly and honestly must admit that I hate these people and I can recognize that these people and Muslim fundamentalist zealots are on the same page.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@MadMadMax Try to remember that a lot of Christians hate what some do in the name of God, too.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@DWW25921 Well, there’s evidence that people are sexist garbage. That’s about it.

MadMadMax's avatar

@KNOWITALL I just want Christians out of my bedroom, out of my doctor’s office and out of my…I’m sorry but…my vagina.

Christians in general are claiming political and civil control of my body parts and that I am not a equal citizen under the law. I’m not really an American citizen.

Christians are causing a great deal of harm to young girls and young women and married mothers. It’s a Patriarchal religion.

Keep your religion. But keep it yourselves. Beat your Christian women if that’s what they want and think Jesus wants but stop trying to force your Christian rules on a multicultural society that is specifically given freedom of and from religion. In this case one religion’s control over a country.

This is not a theocracy.

ibstubro's avatar

I might consider returning to Christianity if it kept me out of @MadMadMax‘s vagina bedroom?

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

Mohammed might say it is OK to beat your wife, but God didn’t, but who cares what God said or how, so I will leave it at that.

DWW25921's avatar

@MadMadMax I’ve been a Christian all of my life and what you’re describing has no bearing on the reality that I know.

MadMadMax's avatar

Oh come on.

DWW25921's avatar

@MadMadMax Seriously. Not even close. I’m sorry you’ve had bad experiences but it’s not prudent to lump “all of them” in one category.

MadMadMax's avatar

Tea Bagger Politics has focused on women’s private parts for the last few years. You can’t not know that.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

^^^^ Maybe she doesn’t realize Mohammad is Islamic and not Christian; but some people have their panties in a bunch over Christians they would try to bash them if the subject were about wiccans.

DWW25921's avatar

@Hypocrisy_Central She’s got some totally off base ideas but what can I do about it?

El_Cadejo's avatar

But @MadMadMax didn’t bring up Christians, @Seek_Kolinahr did…. @MadMadMax is also right, or do you guys live in a world where abortion/birth control hasn’t been a huge issue?

DWW25921's avatar

@uberbatman Why do women have the right to slaughter children? That’s psychopathic at it’s core. It’s not about women’s rights, it’s about killing babies! Ironically these are the same people that will protect a litter of unwanted kittens but heaven forbid they protect a human child from being killed. Also, being against killing babies has nothing to do with being a Christian. There are lots of non-Christian groups that have a problem with this. It’s called moral fortitude.

@MadMadMax Oh boo hoo you’re so repressed. The tea party has done nothing but loose validity since it’s inception and woman’s “rights” have not been affected by them in the least. Playing that card doesn’t make sense as their value system has no bearing in the reality of the world in which we live. Yes, you have the right to mercilessly slaughter as many babies as you want. Congratulations on that. Yay, big victory. You can blame whomever you want for whatever you want to but keep in mind that your decisions make up who you are not the opinions of others so stop playing the victim/blame game card and grow up.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@MadMadMax I think it’s very sad that your focus is more on Christians being okay with abortion than on our fellow sisters (women) making good personal decisions for their lives.

Christians are supposed to be okay with everything, it just doesn’t work that way, some of us will stand for something whether you like it or not.

ragingloli's avatar

Sure. You will stand for oppression, we will stand for freedom.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@ragingloli That is not what I personally call freedom, actually to me it’s tantamount to religious cults using the freedom of religion for child brides, or using the freedom to arm ourselves to shoot up innocent’s.

Meanwhile I STILL support your freedom to a safe and legal abortion, even though I disagree with the procedure and rationale.

Wasn’t it liberals calling our Vietnam vets baby killers? And pretty much tortured those guys with what they had to do to protect America?

It’s very irritating to me that Christians are supposed to go along with abortion and SSM, yet there’s no give on the liberal front at all.

ragingloli's avatar

Nothing about Vietnam was about “protecting” the colonies.
And besides, you have no scriptural leg to stand on to oppose abortion, as the bible demands abortion as a test of a wife’s faithfulness (numbers 5).

ragingloli's avatar

Preventing the spread of communism is what we were trying to do. a.k.a. nothing to do with protecting the colonies.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@ragingloli I’ve noticed you keep using that old-fashioned term for America, why is that? We left British rule quite a long time ago…lol

MadMadMax's avatar

Wasn’t it liberals calling our Vietnam vets baby killers? And pretty much tortured those guys with what they had to do to protect America?

Nobody was “protecting America.” The US was not threatened. You need to take a history COURSE at a normal university.

Also if anybody mentioned “baby killing” it was probably associated with the My Lai Massacre – which happened.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre

It was not a particularly liberal thing to object to the Vietnam War. It was more of an expression of American outrage and we wanted our guys to come home and not in a body bag.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

^^^^^^ Wasn’t it liberals calling our Vietnam vets baby killers?
Killing a child in war is repugnant, unless they were Japanese, then the whole sale fire bombing and then annihilation by thermonuclear weapons was OK, it is better to spare children such indignity than to die in a war by wiping them out before they are born~.

in general I have found a way to properly administer a wife beating; she has to agree, you use safe words, and plenty of whips, floggers, and slappers, and she and her husband do it for entertainment and not punishment.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@MadMadMax Geesh…believe whatever you obviously believe. Why you want soldiers to come home and not in body bags, but can’t extend that same courtesy to little babies is beyond me.

ragingloli's avatar

@KNOWITALL
Because the “revolution” was an illegal act of treason and a campaign of terrorism, rendering your “independence” null and void. Your head of state is still the Queen.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@ragingloli Revolution does NOT render our independence null and void.

What do you consider Hawaii and Alaska? lol, you’re silly.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

@KNOWITALL When it comes to ”Why you want soldiers to come home and not in body bags, but can’t extend that same courtesy to little babies is beyond me.”, the zero reason is selfishness, it isn’t about rights, though those who believe it is bamboozle themselves into thinking it is. They boinked like bunnies but do not want to be responsible for the byproduct of the lustful pleasure they, or in this point, the woman, received from it. Saving puppies and kittens are one thing, if they had to care for them I bet they would not bat an eyelash as a sack of them were tossed into the river to drown, as people use to do without so much as a thought.

Seek's avatar

Can we get back to wife beating?

If you don’t want people to have abortions, make birth control accessible and teach real sex education. Don’t outlaw necessary medical procedures to suit your personal morals, then slut-shame the poor girls who were unable to prevent or end their pregnancy and chose not to commit suicide. And don’t talk about adoption – it’s not our teenagers’ responsibility to provide American babies for our infertile rich.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Seek_Kolinahr Sure we can, but you made your statement as did others above, which are difficult not to respond to.

The religious right doesn’t condone abortion or wife beating. Any implications that as a whole, we do, is false. Who is slut-shaming? Big difference between that and asking a person to accept personal responsiblity for their actions.

Seek's avatar

Personal responsibility?

1. You’re talking about teenagers who can’t count on their parents OR their school systems to teach them the facts of life.

2. They have little to no access to birth control.

3. They are human beings – adolescents with hormones more powerful than their reasoning centers.

If their parents aren’t accepting the responsibility for raising their kids, and the schools aren’t responsible for mitigating the damage of bad parenting, and society isn’t responsible for making preventative medicine available, why do we expect adolescent females to “accept responsibility” for their actions, and trust them with raising more people into a society which bears no responsbility for them?

“You’re so irresponsible for getting pregnant! Now be responsible for the life you created!”

“Oh, you want to smoke, do you, well then smoke the whole carton. RIGHT NOW.”

An infant should not be brought into the world as punishment for a person for not knowing what they were inadequately taught, or to anyone who doesn’t actually want to be raising a child.

We aren’t running short on people, you know. The human race isn’t exactly at risk of dying out, unless of course as a result of overpopulation.

ragingloli's avatar

Having an abortion IS taking responsibility.

ragingloli's avatar

And while we are at it, why not make cancer treatment illegal for those who got lung cancer from smoking, and force them to die horribly.
After all, they need to take responsibility, right?

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Seek_Kolinahr Here are the facts:http://www.abort73.com/abortion_facts/us_abortion_statistics/

As you can see, it is not teenagers having them, it’s unmarried women 20–29 accounting for over 50% of all abortions. 36.6% have had more than one. And over 50% identify as Protestant or Catholic.

My point is that at age 20+, you know how babies are made. You are old enough to work to take care of that child or make other arrangements with family members or via adoption.

What we really need to work on, first and foremost, imo, is for all of us who purport to be Christians to stop being so judgemental.

@ragingloli It is not taking responsibility, in my opinion, it is the baby taking responsiblity with it’s life for it’s parents mistake in judgement. If you think that cancer thing is a joke, you definately do not have American insurance.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

Yeah, lets get back to wife beating, at least the path to how wrong that is is crystal clear. To try to equate a pregnancy to cancer….wow man, just wow. Cancer left untreated is fatal nearly 100% of the time, and anyone who insist on smoking and get cancer should be expected to take responsibility for it even if they have no money. A pregnancy left alone usually always end with a child more times than not, if you have facts to the contrary bring it, you don’t have to kill a baby by abortion because not doing so will kill the mother, if that were the case I can’t see how any women would be left to nurse these newborns.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Hypocrisy_Central Do you know any Christians who beat their wives because it’s biblical? If it’s pervasive in Christian culture, I haven’t heard of it, and here in redneckville, I’m sure I would have.

I’ve seen more of the biker types doing that kind of thing, and I mean no insult to biker dudes with that, it’s just my experience.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

@KNOWITALL Do you know any Christians who beat their wives because it’s biblical?
Nope, and I know I know more real Christians than those who are commenting here believe are Christians simply because they said they were. I can say I was a basketball All American but if you never hung with me, how do you know the words coming out of my mouth are true? Most of these people would not be caught dead hanging around real Christians because they would be convicted too much or feel judge. Those Christians they met getting drunk at the bar (or in any other sort of iniquity) are disqualified and thus useless to use as a witness or any testimony. I do not even know any Christians that are in to B&D (which is permissible if they are truly married).

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Hypocrisy_Central A lot of the men in my area seem pretty passive, they usually just go along with whatever the wife wants as far as church involvement, family relationships, etc…the women are fairly dominant I’d say.

Seek's avatar

Being born is fatal, 100% of the time.

@Hypo – Actually, the vast majority of conceptions end in body-induced abortion, most before the woman even knows she’s pregnant. That’s why there’s such a high incidence of “false positive” pregnancy tests.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

^ How so, are you not here posting? Pretty good for a dead person. Birth was not fatal to me, neither is living, but death at some point is part of the process.

Seek's avatar

^ Please refresh.

DWW25921's avatar

Wow guys, I leave for a few hours…

I want to bring up the point that being against abortion isn’t even a stereotypical conservative position. I mean, I am good friends with a gay couple who would love to adopt but it’s very expensive and there’s a waiting list. (Gays are never on the top of the waiting list…) They are wonderful people and would be great with a house full of kids but that will never happen. It’s really not fair to neglect one group of people for the sake of appeasing another.

Being a Christian, I was taught to respect the sovereignty of all people. This means gays (which I was openly years ago) and babies. Accepting people and loving them for who they are is different than approving of what they do. I think the gay community could be the perfect answer to the abortion question. Clearly, that’s not a conservative stance. There are many reasons why I’m an independent.

I’m not calling anyone a whore, nor do I think the actions of others are any of my business. I am openly saying that the practice of abortion is psychopathic. There is a difference. There are also solutions available that would help end the slaughter if only people would be a little more creative and think outside the box.

For example, I worked in a nursing home years ago and saw the older folks interacting with very small kids and it brightened their day! Why not have an orphanages in nursing homes? The kids would be spoiled and the old folks would find meaning and purpose!

Why not make it easier for people to adopt? You know, it’s easier and sometimes cheaper to fly half way around the globe and adopt a foreign child than it is to adopt from across town… That should change.

@Seek_Kolinahr is right about kids not being adept at responsibility. How are we supposed to educate parents who don’t care? How can we expect schools to compensate for the lazy parents? Is it too much to ask that our “free love” culture tone it down a bit? I really don’t know what to do about that one…

MadMadMax's avatar

A zygote is not a living baby. A baby can live outside it’s mother womb.

Jewish religion teaches that a baby born legs first isn’t a person until the head is out and breathing.

I didn’t know this question was about abortion, I thought it was about the disgusting propensity for justifying wife beating by certain Christian sects.

MadMadMax's avatar

” Is it too much to ask that our “free love” culture tone it down a bit?”

LOL before the free love culture, teenagers were going all the way in the back of the old chevy or down on beach.

When I was in Catholic high school I remember older girls who wanted their boyfriends to marry them by graduation and were purposely planning to get pregnant. I thought it was disgusting. A few got pregnant before graduation – bad timing – and they had to drop out and get married. Good gravy.

By the time the free love generation came around there were birth control pills, kids knew about birth control – you could finally buy condoms and not have ask the pharmacist for them and we had the right to choose.

Nobody suddenly starting fucking in 1967.

DWW25921's avatar

@MadMadMax The question happened to be about an Islamic sect than Seek brought up a christian offshoot that apparently does it too. Personally, I’ve never heard of such a thing until a few links were posed. I’m not going to pick apart their validity but I will say it’s unheard of in the circles that I’ve been in. Anyway, I suppose it doesn’t matter as we agree that beating women is a disgusting and disgraceful practice no matter who the bad guy worships.

Seek's avatar

I’ve mentioned before that I very rarely click links to videos unless I know exactly what it’s leading to, and have determined it’s worth my time and bandwidth.

If you wanted to specifically discuss spousal abuse in Islamic households to the exclusion of all other ethnic or religious groups, you might have mentioned so in the details. The question was basically “what is the best way to beat your wife”. So, I shared some nice, Biblically-based rules on the proper way to beat your wife.

DWW25921's avatar

@Seek_Kolinahr I’m glad you did, I had no idea and kind of learned something. At first I figured it was going to be dismissed as a hoax but apparently it’s common among several “faiths” and countries, apparently our own country as well. It’s worse than I thought. Thanks for your input.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

@DWW25921 For example, I worked in a nursing home years ago and saw the older folks interacting with very small kids and it brightened their day! Why not have an orphanages in nursing homes? The kids would be spoiled and the old folks would find meaning and purpose!
It will never happen, it makes too much sense, and the US is not about doing things that make sense.

@MadMadMax A zygote is not a living baby.
A tadpole is not a frog, but I bet if a frog was on the endangered species list, it would be a crime to destroy them or their habitat, same with the pupae in the cocoons. It is not the butterfly but try to kill an endangered one and I think there would be repercussions.

Here is a hint, it is but one stage of human life.

I didn’t know this question was about abortion, I thought it was about the disgusting propensity for justifying wife beating by certain Christian sects.
OK, OK, but down the redacted and watch the video again. They are speaking Arabic (or something similar), they are in the Middle East, they are talking about Mohamed. Where are you getting Christian out of that? You did watch the video off the link, right?

@Seek_Kolinahr So, I shared some nice, Biblically-based rules on the proper way to beat your wife.
The Satanic Bible don’t count. Point out to me what scriptures you read, I never seen or read anywhere in the Holy Bible where it told a man to beat his wife. –I personally think you bread something wrong, if you even own a Bible.—

Seek's avatar

^ I posted the link to http://christiandomesticdiscipline.com above. You’ll find those whackadoo’s Bible references on their site.

The Satanic Bible does not condone spousal abuse, in fact, it specifically discourages acting in such a manner as to cause physical harm to others. You might try reading it sometime. Anton LaVey is a self-centered, hedonistic jackass. You’d like him.

I have nine Bibles, actually, including a Thompson Chain Reference Bible, a copy of the KJV printed in 1843, and a copy of the Wicked Bible, which due to a misprint in the 16th century states “Thou Shalt Commit Adultery”. I like to point that out to people who claim Biblical inerrancy, even through translation and human error. Oh, I have a Strong’s Concordance on my Religion shelf, as well, if you want to argue the Greek or Hebrew source words on anything.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

^ Bypassing a Web site (it isn’t the Bible), which of those Bibles said it is OK to beat your wife, and what verses were they? I would like to investigate myself.

Seek's avatar

If you’re so interested, investigate the website, which is written by people who actually believe that tripe. I’m not playing your research assistant.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

^ That is OK, you couldn’t find it in the Holy Bible because it doesn’t exist in there, that is why you won’t look, you know you will never find it.

Seek's avatar

You seem to be under the impression that I care whether you find out.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

You do not have to, you have been exposed none the less. It was all smoke and mirrors, speaking on something that did not exist and dead wrong. I am happy with the out come, if you care or not is no importance, those reading will know by the preponderance of the evidence, or sorry lack of, how erroneous it was.

Seek's avatar

Believe what you like.

I’d rather you continue believing it’s wrong to abuse your spouse than point you to the scriptures that condone it.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

Yeah, yeah, yeah, if it were there you’d have been all over it, but it ain’t, and that is the facts. Are you sure the Satanic bible even says what you believe it says; you better recheck it.

ragingloli's avatar

2 Sam 7:14b – If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes (a blow, sore, stroke, wound) of the children of men.
Job 5:17 – Behold, happy (blessed) is the man whom God correcteth (chasten, convince, correct, rebuke): therefore despise (abhor, despise, disdain, reject) not thou the chastening (correction, discipline, doctrine, instruction, rebuke) of the Almighty:
Psa 23:4 – Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod ([literally] a stick for punishing, writing, fighting, ruling, walking, etc) and thy staff (support [abstractly], that is, [figuratively] sustenance or [concretely] a walking stick) they comfort (by implication, to be sorry, that is, [in a favorable sense] to pity, console or rue; or [unfavorably] to avenge) me.
Psalms 66:11 – Thou broughtest (lead, put) us into the net (stronghold, snare); thou laidst (appoint, bring, put) affliction (pressure, that is, figuratively distress) upon our loins (properly the waist or small of the back)
Psa 89:31–32 – If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments; then will I visit their transgression (rebellion, sin) with the rod, and their iniquity (perversity, fault, punishment) with stripes.
Pro 3:11, 12 – My son (in the widest sense [of literal and figurative relationship, including grandson, subject, nation, etc]), despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary (distressed, grieved) of his correction: For whom the Lord loveth, he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth (be pleased with).
Pro 10:13b – a rod is for the back (by analogy the middle, body) of him that is void (lacking, without, have need) of understanding (the heart; also used [figuratively] very widely for the feelings, the will and even the intellect).
Pro 20:30 – The blueness (properly bound [with stripes], that is, a weal [or black and blue mark itself]) of a wound cleanseth away (properly a scouring, that is, soap or perfumery for the bath, figuratively a detergent, purifies) evil: so do stripes (blows [as in 2 Chron 2:10 of the flail]) the inward parts of the belly.
Pro 26:3 – A whip for the horse, a bridle for the donkey, and a rod for the fool’s (stupid or silly) back.
Prov 29:15: “The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.” Notice this verse does not state, “The rod and reproof give wisdom only to children…”
Isa 10:26 – And the LORD of Hosts shall stir up a scourge (a lash [literally or figuratively], a whip) for him according to the slaughter (same Hebrew word used in Proverbs 20:30 for “stripes”) of Midian at the rock of Oreb: and as his rod was upon the sea, so shall he lift it up after the manner of Egypt.
Isa 11:4 – But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity, for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
Matt 10:17 – But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge (flog [literally or figuratively], scourge) you in their synagogues;
Luke 18:33 – And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
John 2:15 – And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers’ money, and overthrew the tables;
Rom 13:1–5 – Let every soul be subject (to subordinate, to obey, submit self) unto the higher powers (delegated influence, authority, right, strength). For there is no power but of (except from) God: the powers that be are ordained (arranged in an orderly manner, assigned) of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth (opposes) the power resisteth the ordinance (arrangement, institution) of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation (condemnation, judgment). For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil (intrinsically worthless, subjectively depraved or objectively injurious). Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? Do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister (attendant, specifically a Christian teacher and pastor [technically a deacon], servant) of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword (judicial punishment) in vain (idly, without reason [or effect]): for he is the minister of God, a revenger (carrying justice out, that is, a punisher) to execute wrath ([by analogy] violent passion [ire, or justifiable abhorrence], by implication punishment) upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
Heb 12:5–7 – And you have forgotten the exhortation (imploration, comfort, consolation) which speaks unto you as unto children, My son, (used very widely of immediate, remote or figurative kinship) despise not the chastening (tutorage, education or training; by implication disciplinary correction) of the Lord, nor faint when you are rebuked (admonished, convicted, reproved) of him. For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth (to train up a child, that is, educate, or [by implication] discipline [by punishment], instruct, teach), and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth (delights in). If you endure (stay under, undergo, take patiently) chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father does not chasten?
Heb 12:11 – Now no chastening for the present (time being) seemeth to be joyous (cheerfulness, calm delight), but grievous (sadness, sorrow, grief): nevertheless afterward (eventually, at the last) it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness (equity of character or act; specifically [Christian] justification) unto them which are exercised (trained) thereby.
Rev 3:19 – As many as I love (be a friend to [fond of], that is, have affection for), I rebuke and chasten: be zealous (have warmth of feeling, covet earnestly) therefore, and repent.

MadMadMax's avatar

A Christian Domestic Discipline (CDD) marriage is simply a traditional, male-led, Christian marriage which utilises aspects of Domestic Discipline. It is set up according to Biblical standards.

Therefore, in a CDD marriage:

The husband is the head of the household, whilst the wife is submissive to her husband as if the Lord Himself was her husband. See Eph. 5:22–24.
The husband is to love his wife as himself, and as Christ loved the church. He is to be a servant, and leads by example. He is to lay down his life for her. See Eph. 5:25–29.
The wife is to reverence her husband. She is to obey him, so long as his instructions are not in opposition to God’s commands. See Titus 2:5, Acts 5:29.

He has the ultimate authority in his household, but this authority is tempered with the knowledge that he will answer to God for his actions and decisions. The final decision rests with him, and therefore, the final responsibility, whatever the outcome, is his to bear. A wise husband will not make a major decision without prayerfully asking God for wisdom, and without seeking his wife’s counsel. Prov. 20:5

KNOWITALL's avatar

I see nothing wrong with any of that @MadMadMax, except the discipline part.

In some areas you touch mama or even backsass, even if you’re the father, you’d have everyone all over you whipping the tar out of you. You don’t touch women in anger and violence ever and if mama cries someone dies (lol.)

So I find something wrong with the CDD needless to say. It doesn’t mesh with southern chivalry and honor.

ragingloli's avatar

southern chivalry and honor.” lol

DWW25921's avatar

I leave again for half a day… Geez guys! Thanks for the input all and all the great Bible verses about discipline and all that. Incidentally, none of them say it’s ok to beat your wife and kids. @ragingloli gave some great verses and they all only prove that it’s simply not condoned in the Bible. Training your children through love and discipline… Really? How could anyone take that out of context to say it’s advocating beatings? That doesn’t make sense. Although I will say like @Seek_Kolinahr pointed out that some people actually do take things out of context. People believe what they want regardless of what the Bible actually says. So, everyone’s right. @KNOWITALL doesn’t see how any of the verses here could possibly be taken out of context and frankly neither do I. But I do see @MadMadMax ‘s point as there are some that do. @Hypocrisy_Central asked for versus and they were provided. It’s interesting how both sides can use the same information to prove opposing views. This fascinates me.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@ragingloli I was trying to explain the reasons I can’t believe that CDD is common.

MadMadMax's avatar

It’s disgusting to hit anyone. It’s disgusting to use any “excuse” to hit anyone. Women shouldn’t be banging on guys and guys should not be looking for excuses to prove they are superior by proof of some stupid scriptures to hit their wives or children.

It disgusts me. The evil nonbeliever.

Over and out.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@MadMadMax You and I don’t agree on a lot of issues, but I don’t believe all nonbelievers are evil, anymore than I believe scripture is stupid. Religion helps a lot of people in many ways, just as not believing may fulfill your needs.

What we can agree on is that no one should hit others. Peace to you. :)

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

@DWW25921 Exactly! I was prepared to bring out the Howitzers and blow each of those points of poppycock out of the water, but you summed it up; either they referred to God’s discipline of man, or of the nation Israel, etc. I don’t see anything in there about beat your wife and kids. How could something so clear be missed?

1 Corinthians 1:20
Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

With worldly wisdom one better stick to reading tea leaves and tarot cards.

@Hypocrisy_Central asked for versus and they were provided.
What I asked for is what they said they found; verses where God literally commanded men to beat their wives, they produced none. What was presented was a hack job of taking scripture out of context to try to shove it in to a redacted belief.

@KNOWITALL I see nothing wrong with any of that @MadMadMax, except the discipline part.
If the woman or man, submits to being beaten but not out of hate or malice but sensual excitement, it is OK.

Hebrews 13:4
Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous.

I know there are many beliefs even about this passage, as to what it says and doesn’t say. I personally am not adding into it what is not there; so bondage, oral, even anal sex is not off the table if both or committed. So long as there are no extra bodies, porn with other people (I would say sex tapes made of themselves is OK, even though there is no Bible reference, but it seem only contextually reasonable), certainly no animals, or doing it in front of others, to expose your nakedness and that of your spouse, what two married people do on their bed God is not going to sweat over.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Hypocrisy_Central Well sure, but then we’ll get into the whole SSM argument and say what they do in bed if they are married is okay, too, you’ll disagreem, etc…...lol

How did Moses get to legally sleep with Hagar then? Just saying, he didn’t keep it in the marriage unless Hagar as a slave was a nonperson.

ragingloli's avatar

well it said that the marriage bed is not to be defiled, so as long as he boned her in the barn, it is fine.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@ragingloli Barn? More like a blanket over a sand dune right?

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

^^ That is not what it said, best reread it unless you redacted.

Seek's avatar

I hereby revoke your right to use the word “redacted”.

Seriously, it’s getting annoying.

ragingloli's avatar

@KNOWITALL
What did they call the building where they stored their goats back in biblical times?
A brothel.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

^^ There are many stupid things said that should be redacted but aren’t, and if I said truthfully what I thought of them without redacting them, someone would take it the wrong way, get pissed, and harbor a grudge; if they aren’t already.

ragingloli's avatar

Worry not. You would have to try very hard to disappoint me any further :)

DWW25921's avatar

Redacted. @ragingloli Gay used to just mean happy or giddy. The “brothel” thing there is a testament to the ever changing English language. They didn’t speak English back in Biblical times so I doubt that’s exactly how it would be worded today. Nice attempt at a jab though.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

^^ Don’t matter, you still have room for disappointing God though; however the devil is quite happy. Congratulations?

ragingloli's avatar

Well, since I first do not believe that he exists in the first place, and second I hold him to be the very definition of evil, his disappointment in me is of no consequence, to me.

MadMadMax's avatar

@DWW25921 Nobody stole the word gay in your lifetime. Look up the history of the word “Gay” in a real dictionary.

Here’s a quote from Wiki; I read more in depth and better definitions:

“The word gay may have started to acquire associations of immorality as early as the 14th century, and had certainly acquired them by the 17th.[1]

By the late 17th century it had acquired the specific meaning of “addicted to pleasures and dissipations”,[9] an extension of its primary meaning of “carefree” implying “uninhibited by moral constraints.” A gay woman was a prostitute, a gay man a womanizer and a gay house a brothel.[1]

The use of gay to mean “homosexual” was in origin merely an extension of the word’s sexualised connotation of “carefree and uninhibited”, which implied a willingness to disregard conventional or respectable sexual mores. Such usage is documented as early as the 1920s”

DWW25921's avatar

@MadMadMax Um… ok… What’s your point? I mean, it’s a well documented fact that languages change over time. Because of this, so do translations. That was my point… Are you in disagreement with that? Should I have used a different word like “computer” which used to mean a person well adept at numbers? (sigh)

MadMadMax's avatar

My point was that the word “gay” was not stolen by anyone. That’s all.

I’ve seen that complaint so many times – ugh.

Be cool and Happy New Year.

DWW25921's avatar

Words can’t be stolen. It’s just a word. Maybe it’ll mean something else in 100 years. Have a wonderful new year!

cazzie's avatar

I’ve had more bruises inflicted by my son now than my soon-to-be ex ever gave me. He, apparently, led by example. The month of January, my son and I are being sent to a clinic to help ‘reprogram’ our relationship. The ex has been checked into a psych ward and, by all accounts, is being treated for a severe case of ‘self-pity’ and a hockey-like ‘reality-check’. Reality seems to be sitting in the penalty box, while I suffer the judgement of social workers and psychologists. I need Reality back in the game and on my side.

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