General Question

pleiades's avatar

Ok Californians, so are we allowed to go to a bar and have a gun at the waist of our pockets?

Asked by pleiades (6359 points ) February 13th, 2014

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/02/13/calif-concealed-weapon-law-tossed-by-fed-appeals-court/

So apparently the higher ups want the crime rates to soar in California. Which they will, it’s common sense, we have some of the highest unemployment rates, which means more people with nothing better do than go start some trouble. That’s just one way I see it anyway.

So… Two questions

1. Are we now allowed to carry guns to bars?
2. Are homeless people allowed, “the right to bear arms” ?

Or maybe you have an opinion on the opposite spectrum?

Perhaps there will be less violence now that “Law Abiding Citizens” can carry their gun in public thus resulting in “ghetto” people who can’t afford guns to be scared?

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20 Answers

tinyfaery's avatar

I cannot trust your source and thus cannot answer your question.

LuckyGuy's avatar

I just read the article. It does not say anything about concealed or carrying a gun on your waist . The part that got it thrown out was the section that “required applicants to show good cause to receive a permit to carry a concealed weapon”.
NY is one of the most restrictive places in the country for firearms. A person with a concealed carry permit must carry the firearm concealed. The only way it may be taken out in public is if you are intending to use it. If you take it out, that is called “Brandishing” and you will be arrested faster than a pedophile at a Y camp. You do not see people carrying firearms on their hips in bars. That does not make sense. Why?
There are a few reasons not to do so.
1) The gun is exposed and can be a target for theft.
2) If there is trouble the bad guy will target you first.
3) People will think you are more of a jerk than the guy with the pink sunglasses and beret.
It is best to keep the fact that you are carrying to yourself.

Adirondackwannabe's avatar

Well it’s Fox news, so I’m already skeptical. But heck yes, lets mix firearms with alcohol. We’ll just get the idiots culled out that much quicker.

Lightlyseared's avatar

Form other news sources that may be more credible than Fox it seems that in San Diego the restrictions on carrying concealed have been overturned. In California the only way for someone to carry a weapon on public was with a concealed carry permit and state law requires that applicants demonstrate they have a good cause to carry concealed when applying for a permit. San Diego didn’t accept self defence or concern for personal safety as good cause and thereby making it very difficult to get a permit. As far as I can gather it was these limitations that have been overturned making it easier to get a permit.

pleiades's avatar

The source doesn’t matter. The law is in effect.

@Lightlyseared Yup!

So can guns be in bars in California? And can someone own a gun legally then carry one as a homeless person?

Lightlyseared's avatar

No. The rest of the concealed carry permit law stands only the restrictions on what classified as good cause have been overturned.

JLeslie's avatar

When I lived in Memphis, TN if you walked in a bar there was always a sign that said no guns allowed on premises. Those signs really threw me for a loop. I’ve only seen them in TN. Makes me feel like I am in a place where guns are a real threat. Oh yeah, gun violence in Memphis is a real threat. Most of the gun violence is in specific zip codes, but still the entire metro area definitely had a gun culture. Memphis has some of the worst violent crime rates in the country.

I worked in a psych hospital there and one question we asked at discharge is if the patient had access to a gun where he was going. Many said they had a gun for protection. I couldn’t believe it. The hospital just cared if the gun was locked up. Huh? Lots of guns in that state. Lots of gun crime in that state. Well, lots of gun crime in specific parts of the state. I have my doubts gun laws affect anything in that state’ it’s too far gone. Living there made me understand why right wingers argue the bad guys already have and always will have guns. Not that it is the wild west there, it isn’t like everyone carries a gun everywhere or people are brandishing their weapons all the time. It’s still a very gun oriented culture. Guns, God, and America. That all goes together for many people there.

LuckyGuy's avatar

Assuming the laws in Cal and NY are similar I can tell you there is little chance a homeless person will be carrying legally. Why? Because there are many other reasons to not grant a permit including: history of mental illness, past substance abuse, bad credit, previous police record, felony conviction, depression, etc. The police interview the applicant and 4 references who have known the applicant for a significanti number of years. Usually the references are permit holders. It is not as easy as you think.

JLeslie's avatar

@LuckyGuy Are you addressing me? I doubt those psych patients owned their guns through legal measures. Even in gun happy TN.

LuckyGuy's avatar

@JLeslie I did not see your response when I wrote mine. I was talking about the laws in NY. They are strrict here. That’s good . I think having a permit should be an indicator of good dating material. It means they are certified to have a job, good credit, good friends, no substance abuse issues, a clean record, are not depressed. What’s not to like? ;-)

JLeslie's avatar

@LuckyGuy I’m in favor of laws like that, but the right wingers are correct that it doesn’t keep the guns out of the hands of criminals. It might help with people who “snap” and suddenly become suicidal or homocidal. Did you see the piece on 60 Minutes about the congressman in VA who had a son who was very mentally ill? The congressman removed all guns from the home except oen shotgun, but had no ammunition for it. His son was going downhill again and he took his son to be hospitalized, but the ER sent him home. A day later the kid (I think he was a college student at this point) killed himself with that shotgun. I would love to know what the congressman thinks about guns now. The piece was about how we don’t take care of our mentally ill in this country.

I say the same about real estate licenses. We are finger printed and background checked.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@LuckyGuyAssuming the laws in Cal and NY are similar I can tell you there is little chance a homeless person will be carrying legally. Why? Because there are many other reasons to not grant a permit including: history of mental illness, past substance abuse, bad credit, previous police record, felony conviction, depression, etc. The police interview the applicant and 4 references who have known the applicant for a significanti number of years. Usually the references are permit holders. It is not as easy as you think.

Bad credit? I’d love the hear the rationale behind that.

JLeslie's avatar

@Darth_Algar Bad credit is used as an indicator of irresponsibility and unreliability.

LuckyGuy's avatar

@Darth_Algar Bad credit is one of many criteria. It might lead to an act of desperation.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@JLeslieBad credit is used as an indicator of irresponsibility and unreliability.”

Which does not equate to violent criminal.

@LuckyGuyBad credit is one of many criteria. It might lead to an act of desperation.

A lot of things might lead to an act of desperation. Seems like a pretty shallow justification to deprive someone of something that’s held to be a Constitutionally enshrined right. Unemployment might lead to an act of desperation. Perhaps we should revoke the right to anyone who loses their job.

JLeslie's avatar

Actually, I know there have been some studies done regarding credit scores and employment. What I have read is that bad credit was not a good predictor of whether an employee would steal, but it did show some correlations regarding good credit meant an employee was more likely to be a better worker, get tasks done efficiently, that sort of thing. Also, that they consider others and the company more than just themselves individually. Credit scores are tricky though, because one could argue only part of the credit score really correlates. Credit scores are partly repayment stats and partly open credit stats, and some other things thrown in.

As far as violent crime I don’t know how credit scores measure up, I guess I could try to google it. I don’t know if NY decided to include a credit report based on nothing but the idea that bad credit might predict antisocial type behavior, or if there are hard statistics about it. I certainly know many people who ruined their credit during the economic downturn who I can’t imagine would ever do any violent crime. But, NY has to discriminate somehow in who they give guns to. If scientific studies showed background checks have no baring on whether someone uses a gun or not then someone could fight to get that requirement removed.

On a personal note, if I was dating someone I think their credit score would matter. I don’t know if I would ever actually run a credit score on them, but I cared whether my husband had credit card debt and how he thought about money. I do think it can go to character, but there can be exceptions. It depends why the credit is bad. Sometimes there are very valid and understandable reasons for bad credit.

LuckyGuy's avatar

@Darth_Algar The credit score is all part of the equation which the officer uses to justify the “yeah” or “nay” decision. Appallingly bad credit won’t automatically knock you out – but it sure won’t help.
I have had a permit for 30+ years and have been asked to be a reference on quite a few. It has been interesting to see how the breadth and depth of the questioning has varied over the years. They address things like anger, alcohol, drugs, family life, interests, disappointments, etc. My answers were always cross-correlated with those of other references whom I might or might not know. The interviews were thorough and fair.

@JLeslie. If I were seriously dating someone I too would be interested in credit score. It is not the whole story but it is an important data point. State licensed child care workers are fingerprinted and need background checks, and I just learned, from you, that real estate agents do, too. Good to know. ;-)

LuckyGuy's avatar

In the future I would not be surprised if they started to include online presence and activities.
Run a credit check, get the applicants download history from the ISP, the search activity from Google, and the driving history from EZ Pass.
Obviously, I am making up the last three items – but it can’t be too far behind.

JLeslie's avatar

@LuckyGuy Real estate is licensed by state so I can only be sure about FL where I am licensed, but I can’t imagine that not every state requires it. We enter people’s homes. We basically have keys to every home on the market. If someone had a felony record for theft or any sort of violent crime like rape, they are not getting licensed. Some crimes they still will allow licensure, but the applicant has to have honestly answered regarding those convictions on the application.

herculies's avatar

Only if we are happy to see you.

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