Social Question

Dutchess_III's avatar

What would you do if your dog bit someone?

Asked by Dutchess_III (28052 points ) March 25th, 2014

First up I want to clarify that there are some situations in which people deserve to be bitten. Like, if someone attacked me I wouldn’t mind Dakota attacking my attacker with everything she had. If someone kicks and beats their dog, they deserve to be bitten.

But consider my question in the following context:

My daughter is in the unfortunate position of have to temporarily stay with her fiance at his mother’s and aunt’s house until they can find some place else. They have this yappy little dog. The dog barks constantly and is constantly waking the twins up from their naps.
When Brande and Aden visit they can’t crawl around on the floor chasing the twins because the dog comes unglued, growling and snapping and acting like he’s going to attack.

Until today, though, he’s never actually bitten any one.

Savannah, 14 months old, was toddling around with a book in her hands and she tripped and fell on the dog’s hind end. The dog spun around and bit her on the face.
Savanna started crying and the mother, Ruby, picked her up and said, “Oh, poor baby. Did Precious scare you?” Savannah had blood running down her face and a pretty deep puncture wound on her cheek.
Corrie came unglued. It was just the last straw of many, many straws with this dog. She screamed “HE DIDN’T SCARE HER! HE BIT HER!!!”
Ruby said, to the dog, “Now Precious. You should be ashamed of your self.” That’s all she did.

If my dog tended to snap and growl at people, that dog would be re-homed immediately. If my dog ever actually bit someone under circumstances like that, that dog would be re-homed to heaven.

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111 Answers

Juels's avatar

The dog is a lawsuit waiting to happen. If the dog couldn’t be trained, then I would seek a new home for it. They should definitely speak with their vet or a local trainer.

KNOWITALL's avatar

I tend to put the blame on the humans involved. If the dog was growling before, then the children shouldn’t have been allowed to play around the dog, seperate bedroom, outside pen, or perhaps your daughter could have sought other accomodations.

My answer is officially no, I wouldn’t put my dog down over biting, because it wouldn’t have had the opportunity to bite. Gotta be smarter than a dog. Your daughter should leave or the MIL should crate the dog while the children are playing in the house.

Why didn’t the MIL say “Precious is not good with kids, and this is her house, so you guys can’t stay more than a day or two since I’ll have to crate her.”???

Juels's avatar

Further, I would not allow the dog and the children to be in the same room any more.

gailcalled's avatar

Did your daughter take her daugher to the doctor’s for treatment? You can report a dog who bites someone to the local animal warden where I live. It is serious stuff, and your daughter can make an issue out of it if she chooses.

Was your granddaughter alone and unsupervised in the room with the dog?

(Why is this question in “Social”?)

GloPro's avatar

File a police report. If the dog bites anyone else, legally it is put down. It isn’t your fault or responsibility, and you shouldn’t feel guilty.

If it were my dog and the circumstances were as you indicated I would find another home for the dog while I had company staying with me and children were around. I would not be offended by the police report, and I would pay for the medical needs of the child. Once company leaves I would bring the dog home and isolate it in a crate when visitors came over. I would only socialize the dog outside of my home and it’s perceived space.
Any more bites, it would break my heart, but I would have him put down.
And no more interaction with children, period.

Juels's avatar

My in-laws recently had a similar situation. Without warning, their family dog attacked my niece. She needed several stitches on nose and cheek. While my niece and her mother were at the hospital, they contacted her dad. He was overseas in Afghanistan. Before they got home, he made arrangements for someone to remove the dog and have it put down. There wasn’t any discussion. It was done before they even knew about it. The girls were heartbroken.

According to my brother-in-law, he wasn’t going to give the dog a second chance to harm someone else.

janbb's avatar

My dog has nipped some people and I am working very hard on training him and managing him so that he does not have the opportunity to bite. If he bit a child, I would be heartbroken. I am doing my best to avoid that situation and he is becoming better behaved. I have spent a lot time and money working with him.

SpatzieLover's avatar

Knowing the dog snaps and growls, why on earth would a 14 month old ever be placed on the floor in the same room as the dog?

Like @KNOWITALL, I tend to place blame on the humans involved. Considering the parent of the child is in a position of imposing on the MIL and her dog, it’s up to her to control how and when she enters a room with the dog.

Ideally, for now, the dog and the child wouldn’t have ever ended up in a room together.
Since they did and a bite has occurred, it’s time to temporarily lock up the dog…HOWEVER, the baby should still be kept away from the dog, even when it’s caged or locked up.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@janbb While I applaud your efforts, there should be no question of ‘if he bit a child’ because your animal is supposed to be under your control at all times.

@SpatzieLover No one ever wants to say “I put my baby on the floor with a dog we KNEW was not child-friendly.” Meh, I love @Dutchess_III but this is obviously the mother and the MIL’s fault, not the dogs.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@SpatzieLover and @all….they LIVE there. The Mom refuses to take any steps to separate the dogs from the kids, and it isn’t Corrie’s place to do it.

At the moment she doesn’t have any other options as to where she can live, but she’s working on it. Better believe she’s working on it.

Also, Savannah was walking and fell. Nobody “put her on the floor.”

@KNOWITALL it’s the dog’s fault, and the MIL’s fault for refusing to do anything about it.

janbb's avatar

@KNOWITALL Are you saying you could always prevent a dog bite? That must be wonderful! As I said, we are a work in progress and of course, I am controlling Frodo and not having children near him.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@KNOWITALL short of having a dog on a real short leash attached to your hand at all times, even when you cook or go to the bathroom or take a shower or get dressed, how realistic is it to have your dog under control “at all times?”

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Dutchess_III You wrote “because the dog comes unglued, growling and snapping and acting like he’s going to attack.” After that it is up to the parent, imo, to protect their child, which means possibly having to move out or have a serious discussion with MIL, not allowing the baby to be around the dog.

The dog’s fault? I disagree completely. Maybe it’s old and cranky, maybe it’s got arthritis and the baby hurt it, either way it shouldn’t have been put in that position.

She can crate the dog or even put it in the backyard if it’s fenced securely. Shut in the bedroom even? When people come to my house, the dogs go in the bedroom and are happy to lay on the bed (they’re lazy…lol)

@janbb I’ve owned some pitbulls and now I own two terrier’s, both under 30 lbs, no one’s been bit, even by the ‘ferocious’ bullies (well, except the ex who tried to break in and kill me but that was okay it was her job.) My dogs are either in a secure environment with me ie the house, the crate, the fenced yard, or they are outside the house on a leash. They wouldn’t have the opportunity to bite, which is a requirement for most dogs in public places. It’s really not difficult.

gailcalled's avatar

Did Corrie get medical treatment for the child?

SpatzieLover's avatar

It sounds like your daughter is not in a good situation right now. It is her MILs home. Corrie’s job is to protect her baby.

While living in the MILs home, she can and must set some boundaries for the safety of the baby. Either the dog gets locked in a room, or a cage, or Corrie does not allow the baby to walk/crawl in the same room as the dog. Period.

I have 4 dogs. At the time when my son was born we had 3, small elderly, possessive dogs.

I never left my son alone in a room with the dogs. When at someone else’s home, (we have friends and family with large dogs), I do the same as I do when at home. Even now, when at someone else’s home, I do not leave my son (he’s 8) alone with a strange dog.

Even the friendliest of dogs are possessive of something, especially in their own homes.

janbb's avatar

@KNOWITALL You are sounding very judgmental and with no knowledge of what I am doing. Frodo is never off my (fenced) property without being on a leash; for one thing, he chases cars. I said “if” because it could happen with any dog, not that he is given the opportunity. I am spending hundreds of dollars on training him so please back off. The same people who insist that we get rescue dogs…...

But I know you don’t mean to sound so judgmental and this is a side argument so we can drop it.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@KNOWITALL she can’t just leave. What is she supposed to do, go live in her car? The only real option my daughter has is to lock herself and the twins in the bed room. MIL isn’t going to lock her Precious in the bedroom.
Also, how did public places come into play? You said people are supposed to have their dog under control at all times. How does one have their dog under control at all times, short of sticking it in a cage or a crate to live?

She wasn’t alone in the room, guys. Corrie and MIL were in the room, too.

She’s there now @gailcalled.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@janbb I’m sorry, it’s just frustrating that so many good dogs are put down because of human ignorance, I feel very strongly about the subject. Look who pays for it, the child and the dog.

@Dutchess_III Don’t get mad at me, it wasn’t my dog biting the child.

If she cant lock Precious up (the MIL) then your daughter and grandchildren are in danger. I’d send her some of that $5k and tell her to get a hotel at this point if it can’t be resolved. Although why MIL would do that is beyond me, that’s just stupid.

syz's avatar

If the child fell on the dog, it’s not surprising that the dog bit her.

First, your daughter and her family are a guest in that household. Expecting the owner of the home to get rid of their pet is ridiculous.

Second, the dog’s temperament is known. Your daughter should not have allowed her child to be near the pet and must take some degree of responsibility for what happened.

Everyone involved should take every precaution to see that the dog and the child are kept separated. Your daughter should take responsibility for her child, and the dog owner should take responsibility for the dog, and each party needs to do whatever it takes to keep them apart (baby gates, kennels, and/or closed doors). Anything else will result in additional incidences.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I’m just trying to understand how one is supposed to have their dog under their control at all times. I’m looking over at my dogs, sitting by the back door. I don’t have them under control.

GloPro's avatar

@janbb I do worry that maybe I just lucked out with my first dog, a rottie. She had an incredible awareness of people’s feet, for example. Tons of dogs step all over your feet, right? Not Asha. She never put her mouth on people either. But from a young age, whether it’s my dog or not, I do not let puppies put their mouths on my skin. It’s a no-no that must be understood. It’s easier said than done for some puppies that are easily excited and energetic. I applaud your recognition and training efforts.

My idea is to loan my new puppy to a friend with a 2 year old and a 1 year old when he’s still only 20 pounds and used to being a part of the litter. I asked my friends to steer the pup away from ever teething the kids by putting a toy in his mouth every time he opens it when they play. I also told him to let the kids tug on tails and ears to an extent, supervised, and keeping him from reacting. Because he’s coming right off of his litter I hope to teach him child tolerance more easily through exposure. It’s easier daydreamed than done, though, isn’t it?

Dutchess_III's avatar

It isn’t surprising @syz. I agree with that. And I told my daughter that at least the dog had some provocation and it didn’t come out of the blue, although that’s small consolation.
No one has said anything about the MIL getting rid of the dog.
I know what everyone should do. Corrie is calling around today to find somewhere else to live. Hopefully they’ll be out in a few days.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Dutchess_III They can’t bite anyone from inside your house, they’re under your control, like if a child ran through your back yard.

If you were outside walking them, they’d be on a leash, so again, they’d be under your control and wouldn’t be able to chase a child, a ball into a highway, etc…

Honestly, I would lock my dog up in a heartbeat if it came to protecting a child, no question, no hesitation. But the child would eventually leave and it would again be my dog’s house. What a strange situation.

Dutchess_III's avatar

But what if one of my grandkids was here? And they’re sitting by the door, or sleeping on the floor? Not under my control. I’m asking how you have a dog who lives in the house with the family under your control at all times?

syz's avatar

@Dutchess_III Closed doors, baby gates, and kennels. If the child is out, put the dog away. If the dog is out, take the child in the bedroom (or elsewhere) and close the door.

Plenty of people do it all the time; we have clients (and one coworker) who have dogs in the same household that would attack each other if possible. Not a lifestyle that I would ever tolerate, but it’s possible.

GloPro's avatar

The OP asked what you would do if your dog bit someone. @Dutchess_III wasn’t really asking for advice, people.

Also, I believe because it is an animal it is not possible to ever have it completely under control. No more than it is to have your children completely under control. Sometimes we all have to do the best we can with acknowledging the less desireable traits. Not all dogs are 100% tolerant lover dogs. Accidents happen, and you move to act on that and make choices as to consequences. It doesn’t always make it the owner’s fault, but it is their responsibility.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Dutchess_III The answer is that in normal circumstances you don’t have a biter in the same house as a child period.

If it was temporarily (like for a holiday or just a two day visit) it would be manageable, but for me, I wouldn’t have a biter around my kids.

@GloPro Um, yes, she keeps asking, so I’m going to tell her.

GloPro's avatar

@KNOWITALL no, she’s asking how it is possible to completely have the dog under your control at all times. I agree with her that it isn’t possible. I think you are fooling yourself if you think you do have your dog under your complete control. You just have a good dog. My dad had a dog that would break screen doors to escape the house. So being inside is not under control.
and you are sounding a tad defensive.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I wouldn’t have a biter, snapper, growler period, kids or no kids.

Thank you @GloPro. ♥

SpatzieLover's avatar

It is 100% possible to have your dog under control at all times. I don’t understand the confusion on this area of dog care/handling at all. If outside, the dog is on a leash. If inside, near children, the dog is confined.

Where is the gray area here???

Dutchess_III's avatar

It’s the same thing as “You must watch your children at all times.” OK, what about when everyone is sleeping? What if you have to go to the bathroom? Do you take your two year old in the bathroom with you? When you’re cooking dinner, do you make them sit in the kitchen with you and not move? Do you cook while looking at your child at all times? I mean, how do you do that?

GloPro's avatar

@SpatzieLover My mom owned a dog for eight years with no problems. She had it inside, alone with her, under your definition of complete control. It bit her anyway. First bite ever. So again, it is never possible to have any other living being under “complete control.”

Dutchess_III's avatar

@SpatzieLover Are you saying that if people have children they should not own a dog?

SpatzieLover's avatar

My dogs are all locked in bedrooms with adults at night. Period. So @Dutchess_III my son was in the room with me when I cooked. When I went to the bathroom, my son was in an area of the home away from the dogs. Again, I see no gray area here.

@GloPro It’s quite different for a dog to bite an adult. Yes? What precipitated the bite? Was it preventable? Had the dog taken ill?

@Dutchess_III Not if they aren’t willing to train and control the animal and the child(ren).

longgone's avatar

If I owned a dog like that, I would expect visiting children to be bitten at some point. Your description alone would have raised alarm bells in most dog trainers and behaviorists. You say “there are some situations in which people deserve to be bitten.” I agree. This situation is one of those – while the little girl, obviously isn’t to blame, both her mom and the dog’s owner should have taken precautions. I tend to assign more responsibility to the owner, as she knows her dog.

longgone's avatar

@GloPro ” I asked my friends to steer the pup away from ever teething the kids by putting a toy in his mouth every time he opens it when they play. I also told him to let the kids tug on tails and ears to an extent, supervised, and keeping him from reacting.”

Please rethink that, especially the second part. I work at a dog training center. We had one client, a while ago, who let her children handle their new puppy. The kids were way too wild – as kids tend to be – and the puppy came to the conclusion: “Little humans = pain”. Trainwreck.

Sorry for derailing.

GloPro's avatar

Yay! I see Leanne1986 crafting a response! I’m all ears.

@Spatzie… I was more making a point about never having complete control of any living animal. I’m sure my mom provoked the dog somehow. He really was very sweet. But he bit her in the face and she had stitches. He never did anything aggressive before or after that.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I know they should have taken precautions but Corrie’s hands were tied. She’s taking the precaution of moving. I’ll update y’all on that.

Forget the dogs for the moment @SpatzieLover. Saying you should have the dog under control at all times is like saying you should be watching your children at all times, whether you have dogs or not. It just isn’t possible. You can take reasonable precautions, but you can’t control everything.

GloPro's avatar

@longgone I hear and appreciate your concern. It is a very calculated and will be well monitored situation. Keeping in mind this dog will be trained for Search and Rescue he has to be subjected to rigorous socializing. If a kid pulls his tail at a crowded parade in 5 years he has to have shown traits to be the most patient and tolerant dog out there. This is not going to be a family pet. The standards are different and the bar is higher for him.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I have the best dog that ever lived.

SpatzieLover's avatar

@Dutchess_III You can control the times/places dogs bite most often within your home. If giving chew type treats dogs can be in a room away from other animals/humans. Food times can be controlled.

Controlling food and where dogs beds are located besides doing obvious dog training, can indeed control the behavior of the dog(s).

This situation was completely preventable. That is the root of the point I am making.

Dutchess_III's avatar

If you have dogs and kids in the house, and the dog isn’t crated or tied up or locked in another room, the dog is NOT under your control. It doesn’t matter how well trained the dog or your kids are. The dog is not under your control.

If you go out to the country with your kids to throw a Frisbee for the dog, the dog is not under your control.

I agree that it was preventable, but the owner refuses to take the steps to prevent it.

OpryLeigh's avatar

@janbb It sounds like you are being a very responsible dog owner. You know your dog’s issues and you are trying to help him through them while still controlling him around the public.

In answer to your question, my Jack Russell is old and blind and spooks very easily nowadays. She is nervous of children and, if she felt that they were too close, I wouldn’t trust her not to bite. Because of this, I keep her away from them and ask people with kids to help me and not to let them get too close (ie: if we are on walks and she is on her lead, there is only so much I can do to keep her away from them. I live in fear of kids running up to her and not listening to me warning them off her). If she did actually bite someone, I don’t know what I’d do. I suppose it depends on who she bit and the situation. Knowing what I do about dogs (I’m a behaviourist) and the warning signs before they bite (some of which are very subtle like lip licking and yawning) and all the possible reasons for doing so, I place the blame on the human 99.9% of the time.

In this instance the dog’s owner and your daughter are responsible. They both know what the dog is capable of and with that in mind, as hard as it may be, the dog and child should have been kept seperate even if that meant keeping the child in a playpen or high chair. Not ideal I agree but the next bite could be much worse if they don’t take those measures.

longgone's avatar

@Dutchess_III Aggressive dogs should not be treated like any other family pet. They should, basically, be treated like ticking time bombs. If I had an aggressive dog and kids visiting, the dog would be locked away. Period. I would certainly not take that dog outside to throw frisbees off-leash. I would also be calling an excellent dog trainer, because that kind of life is not one I would want my dogs to have.

Your initial question seemed to be blaming the dog. I’m glad you agree that this bite was preventable.

The dog isn’t seriously called “Precious”, is he?!

OpryLeigh's avatar

@Dutchess_III just read your last response. Really pleased to hear your daughter has moved out.

longgone's avatar

@GloPro “It is a very calculated and will be well monitored situation.”
Okay, I get that. Risky situation, but you seem to know what you’re doing.

Darth_Algar's avatar

Yeah, sorry, but the failing here was on the two adults, not the dog. Were it me the child and dog never would have been in that situation to begin with. If I had an animal that showed signs of aggression like this dog does then I couldn’t not have let the person and her child move in. If, somehow, they did move in the child and dog would have been kept separate always. I have, for instance, two cats that just do not mesh and will attack each other any given the chance. They are kept completely separate from each other, in different areas of the house, separated by doors.

Dutchess_III's avatar

No…she’s working on it @Leanne1986. I’ll let y’all know.

I never suggested that aggressive dogs should be treated like family members @longgone. And I blame the MIL more than anyone for even having such a dog. I mean, seriously. Just telling the dog, who doesn’t speak English “You should be ashamed of yourself,” when you have a toddler there with blood running down her face? And apparently she makes no attempt to cub the dog’s behavior. No, I blame the MIL. No, the dog is really named Milly or something! But “Precious” gives a better idea of the relationship MIL has with the dog.

longgone's avatar

@Dutchess_III “I never suggested that aggressive dogs should be treated like family members”

To clarify: I was referring to your listing situations in which a dog may not be under control. You were describing scenarios a family dog might be part of. An aggressive one shouldn’t.

Love the name, anyway.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Dutchess_III “And I blame the MIL more than anyone for even having such a dog.”

If it’s usually just the MIL and no one else then why shouldn’t she have such a dog?

longgone's avatar

^^ Yep. She simply should have refused to let children live with her.

GloPro's avatar

@longgone Well, I am fortunate to have very experienced trainers with rescue dogs working with us. There is a very loooong list of things, like popping balloons, motorcycles, gun shots, fireworks, horses, and many others, that the dog must be exposed to in order to become a rescue dog. The younger you start in controlled atmospheres and small doses the better you can assess if the dog will have the right temperament, and the better chance he has for success. We’re going to be using so much positive reinforcement of ignoring behaviors and scary things it will be kind of sickening. Not every dog will actually make it. It’s going to be an intensive year, for sure.

longgone's avatar

@GloPro Oh, I remember that phase. We took our puppies everywhere. We spent time at the train station, zoo, school, library, amusement park…it was like having a hyperactive little exchange student. At one point, we asked friends over and had them pretend to be drunk. You’ll have to pass exams, I suppose? Does that start right away? Are you planning to make a career out of search and rescue?

Dutchess_III's avatar

I agree. Aggressive dogs shouldn’t be family members @longgone. I was referring to @KNOWITALL‘s sweeping statement that your dog should be under your control at all times. As far as I could tell, she meant ALL dogs.

I agree, MIL should have forewarned my daughter. But…this was an emergency situation. There is much more to the story than I’m willing to share. They’re slowly pulling it all together.

My Kota could have been a rescue dog. She rescued her cat from a dog who was much bigger than she was. She rescued me, my husband and our other dog once from some other dogs. She also rescued my grand daughter from a possum when my grand daughter was 2.

GloPro's avatar

I’ve worked with the dog team in Colorado, but as a victim, not an owner. I currently work on a Search team in California. I’ve been around K-9 units a fair bit, also.
Training begins right away, but is concentrated on basic skills, name recognition and response, and socializing. Then we move into scenting. I’m told we’ll be playing graduating levels of hide and seek constantly for a year. Assuming he shows the needed skills, intelligence, and temperament, he begins formal training to be rescue level around 18 months. Yes, there are required certs to respond to calls. But he’ll be around the search team dogs from the day he gets here.

longgone's avatar

@Dutchess_III I hope they’re moving out ASAP. Let us know, please.

@GloPro Interesting. I’ve been wanting to look into joining local S&R teams. But of course, the regulations will be very different over here. Assuming he doesn’t have what it takes, will you still keep him?

Dutchess_III's avatar

I will. Thanks.

GloPro's avatar

Of course! I have wanted a Greater Swiss for years. If he doesn’t have what it takes for search, he will most likely still be good for service of some kind… Hospital visits, for example. They’re gentle giant working dogs. If he turns out to be an absolute moron then I’ll just have a great big puppy dog companion. It’s win/win.
Are your dogs service dog certified? You mentioned zoos, etc.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Quit whispering! I can’t hear you!

janbb's avatar

As a by the by, I took Frodo to a group obedience class today and he was excellent; calm and focused on me. This is due to two month’s of private training. I am having a dinner party on Saturday night and my trainer is coming for an hour to observe and help with his socialization! And…I would not have my four year old niece come to the house to visit unless Frodo was crated because his aggression is territorial and around resource guarding..

And I think it is really awful that Corrie’s MIL was not more concerned and contrite and that you granddaughter was in a place where she could be exposed to danger.

longgone's avatar

@GloPro Ah, that’s great. You must be so excited! No, my dog isn’t certified. I wanted to join some kind of team when I got her – but I was only thirteen, so that was out of the question.

The socializing we did was purely selfish – we wanted calm dogs who can be taken everywhere. We got them, too. I’ve taken my lab to teach classes of school children, for example – she’s helped quite a few children get over their fear of dogs. She’s nine now, too old to start in a team…but I’m thinking of getting a second dog, so…

@janbb Yay for Frodo! Well done.

rojo's avatar

This is a toughie.

Admittedly the dog was not the friendliest to begin with but the baby fell on him causing the overreaction so you cannot say it was unprovoked. I have a hard time blaming the dog and for sure, the baby did not know any better and still trying to work on the coordination thing.

In this situation I would say it was the responsibility of the adults present to keep the baby safe and having the dog and child loose together was an accident waiting to happen. Was it the dog owners fault for not putting the dog up? It was the dogs home after all? Was it the parents fault for not keeping distance between the dog and pet?

But, I have never trusted those small yappy dogs, they just seem both unstable and suffering from a Napoleon complex.

I realize this doesn’t answer your question about what I would do if my dog bit someone so to answer that, when my dog, Ayre, bit my granddaughter on the butt because I was using him to herd her into the kitchen, I took responsibility for it because I was the one in charge and he was acting on instinct.

Cruiser's avatar

@Dutchess_III it’s not the dogs fault, it is the owners and the parent who allowed a child to be intimately close to this animal. Dogs are animals and will react/defend themselves (bite) when hurt or attacked. Savannah so very unfortunately tripped and stepped on the dog and got bit…that said, a child who cannot possilbe know of the damage a pet can do to their tender skin should not be left to be within the dogs proximity….ever no matter how domesticated the dog is. Thankfully the dog reacted and only bit once as other less domesticated breeds will wreak havoc when provoked.

Clearly the child is not at fault and IMO the dog is not at fault….who ever allowed the dog and child to be that close and not in control of the child AND the dog are responsible for what happened.

Jonesn4burgers's avatar

I’d invite ragingloli to dinner. Bye bye biter!

rojo's avatar

@Jonesn4burgers

he is known to have had carnal knowledge with all the animals in a zoo. Would you not worry about breeding a race of cynical face biters?

gailcalled's avatar

Dutchess; When you withhold important information , such as the dog doesn’t understand English, and “there is much more to the story than I am willing to share,” you are playing dirty pool with the people who have responded here.

”... the dog, ... doesn’t speak English”; I assume you do mean that the dog does not understand English. How could he possibly respond to a verbal warning or reprimand from your daughter, Brande or Aden then?

I hope that the baby has seen a doctor and received the necessary medical attention and is now fine.

Jonesn4burgers's avatar

No. I am convinced the dog would be eaten, eventually, and soon enough to prevent that. LOL.
I saw that zoo reference. We MUST find out which was the favorite! giggle, smirk, chortle

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

If this is not a classic case of emotion fueling sound logic, I would be hard pressed to find out why not. There was a little bit if negligence on both side. If I was forced to be around a dog with young children and I knew first hand by its behavior it had aggressive tendencies, I would never allow my children to be around the animal unsupervised. If I were the owner and there was no way to separate the animal from the children that I was willing to accept would be to muzzle the dog; not what I would emotionally want to do, but it is the most logical thing to do to protect the child, not get the dog in trouble, or me getting slapped with a law suit. If I could not stand having my dog muzzled then I would have to ask the parents and the dog to relocate; still not a popular plan because no one wants to appear to put out a family in place of an animal. The reaction the animal’s owner gave is no surprise, look at how many said they would rescue their pet over a human they don’t know. If it were my dog, it would have been rebuked more than being chastise like some kid who struck another with a toy.

janbb's avatar

@Hypocrisy_Central who said they would rescue their pet over a human they don’t know?

Dutchess_III's avatar

Boy, you guys.

@gailcalled. The MIL “reprimanded” the dog by saying, “Precious, you should be ashamed of yourself.” That the dog doesn’t speak English is not “withholding important information.” It’s OBVIOUS. No dog speaks English! They understand certain words, but they certainly don’t understand complex sentences. If she’d yelled “NO!!” it would be a different story. But she’s probably never told the dog “No,” in its life.

The fact that there is more to the story than I’m willing to share isn’t really relevant. Simply suffice it to say that in this moment in time she has no choice but to be where she is now. She can’t just pack up and leave. But she’s working on it.

@rojo, In this response you will see that I did say that the dog was “provoked,” at least in his own mind. I never said he wasn’t.

@Hypocrisy_Central I agree with Penggy. No one said they’d rescue a dog over a human, but I think everyone agrees that the woman seriously under reacted to both the dog and with her concern about the baby. Good idea about the muzzle though. Don’t know if MIL will consider that to be an option though. Poor Precious might not wike it.

No, it isn’t the dog’s fault. The dog is what it is. It’s the owners fault for having such a dog.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Dutchess_III That’s all I was trying to say (that it was the owners fault), doll, sorry it hit you wrong that certainly was not my intention. :)

rojo's avatar

Uh, same here.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Just talked to Corrie. Savannah is fine. MIL is trying to blame Savannah. Patrick, Corrie’s fiance, called his mom after the incident. She told him that Savannah threw the book she was carrying at the dog. Corrie pointed out that Savannah was a good foot, foot and a half taller than the dog. The dog would have had to jump up to bite her face. Not likely.

GET OUT.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Dutchess_III “Simply suffice it to say that in this moment in time she has no choice but to be where she is now.”

Is there any reason why your daughter and grandchild can’t stay with you rather than in a home with a dog that’s aggressive towards children?

Dutchess_III's avatar

1) My husband

2) She’s about 60 miles away and has a job there.

Darth_Algar's avatar

1) Huh?

2) Fair enough.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I wouldn’t mind having them live here. My husband wouldn’t allow it, though.

Darth_Algar's avatar

Eh. if it were between my child being homeless and staying with me and my spouse had an issue with it then my spouse could find herself somewhere else to sleep.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Well, if she was homeless, literally homeless she could live here. But she’s not homeless.

Darth_Algar's avatar

But in this thread you’d implied that she, at least for the time, ether has to live in a home with a dog that’s aggressive towards her child or she’s homeless.

Dutchess_III's avatar

She can’t live here in this town. The twin’s father is a threat. That’s the reason she left her own apartment here in the first place.

She’s looking for other digs as we speak.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

@Dutchess_III No one said they’d rescue a dog over a human, but I think everyone agrees that the woman seriously under reacted to both the dog and with her concern about the baby.
No one specifically said it in this thread, because it was not an issue. However, I am saying this woman’s reaction to her dog biting a child is not shocking to me considering how some view their precious pooches, basically more important to humans. I know people know who feed their dogs better than they feed themselves.

@janbb who said they would rescue their pet over a human they don’t know? who said they would rescue their pet over a human they don’t know?
Not in this thread but in threads past there have been quite a few who said they would save their pet over a stranger . It would not surprise me that absolving a dog from biting anyone, toddler or up would be off the table because the dog is that important.

Darth_Algar's avatar

Of course most people would rescue their pet over a stranger. In such situations people tend to go for those who are loved ones to them over people they do not know. To many people their pets are family members, not just property. Would you be surprised if someone stated they’ed rescue their child or, say, sibling over a stranger?

Dutchess_III's avatar

I love my dogs dearly, but I would NOT rescue them over another human being. Would not.

@Darth_Algar all humans come before animals. The comparison of of rescuing your child or sibling or mother or father over a stranger was just plain stupid.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Dutchess_III “all humans come before animals.”

I disagree. In fact I’d even go as far as to say there’s a fair number of humans I would not save at all regardless of whether there was anyone else to save or if saving them would be of little inconvenience to me.

KNOWITALL's avatar

I think you guys know how much I love my animals, but if it came to them or a human, of course I’d pick the human being. That being said, I rescued both my dogs and my two birds, so that’s why I preach safety so much, I’d hate to be put in that position since my responsiblity is to protect them, even from themselves.

longgone's avatar

@Dutchess_III “All humans come before animals”

Citation needed…I didn’t know that was what we are all supposed to think.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@longgone. Would you die to save your child? Would you allow yourself to be tortured to save your child?

Would you die to save your dog? Would you allow yourself to be tortured to save your dog?

@Darth_Algar I was assuming strangers, not people we actually know.

Darth_Algar's avatar

So “all humans come before pets as long as their strangers to you”?

longgone's avatar

@Dutchess_III
Answered that in your other thread.

Dutchess_III's avatar

If I ever found myself in a situation where I knew some person was a horrible child molester and they and my dog were in a burning house, I’d save my dog. Of course, I’d never have my dog in a house with a child molester. Further, i don’t even know any horrible criminals like that. You guys are making up silly imaginary scenarios.

Say you’re on a cruise ship that allows pets, and it starts going down. Would you pull a life jacket off of a toddler to put on your dog? I wouldn’t.
Would you pull a life jacket off of your dog, or even yourself to put on a child? I would.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

@Darth_Algar So “all humans come before pets as long as their strangers to you”?
I do not believe you are playing this game to try and justify saving an animal over a human. It doesn’t matter if the person is known or a stranger to you or even a criminal fleeing the law, Humans trump animals no matter how long you had them. To think otherwise is to let your emotion overrun your logic.

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Hypocrisy_Central Good thing @Darth_Algar didn’t grow up with my gpa, he would’ve killed his pet just to prove the point. Cows & chickens aren’t pets either, they’re food, and no animal is allowed in the house, ever. ;)

Cruiser's avatar

I would save the dog AND the stranger and even @Darth_Algar

Dutchess_III's avatar

And I would save you @Cruiser!

Dutchess_III's avatar

Who’s gonna save ME?

KNOWITALL's avatar

@Dutchess_III I’m probably closest to you, so I’ll get you and your dog!

Dutchess_III's avatar

I have two of them. And a husband….nah. Forget Rick!

Cruiser's avatar

@Dutchess_III I will. I am a trained lifeguard and know CPR and screw the new Red Cross rules, I will still give you mouth to mouth and will throw in a few chest compressions for just to be safe! ;)

Jonesn4burgers's avatar

This is me, waiting in line for my turn.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I got ya @Jonesn4burgers! Let’s get away from @Cruiser and his damn chest compressions! RUN!!!!

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Hypocrisy_Central “I do not believe you are playing this game to try and justify saving an animal over a human. It doesn’t matter if the person is known or a stranger to you or even a criminal fleeing the law, Humans trump animals no matter how long you had them. To think otherwise is to let your emotion overrun your logic.”

Nope, I’m being honest. I’m going out of my way to save those nearest to me, including my four-legged family members, before someone I do not know and do not care about.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@KNOWITALL “Good thing @Darth_Algar didn’t grow up with my gpa, he would’ve killed his pet just to prove the point. Cows & chickens aren’t pets either, they’re food, and no animal is allowed in the house, ever. ;)”

Yeah, I grew up on a farm and saw animals butchered too. Big whoop.

Jonesn4burgers's avatar

@Dutchess_III, ARE YOU NUTS?!? I haven’t had my chest compressed, professionally or otherwise, for a very long time. I’m waiting my turn. :-D

rojo's avatar

CHEST COMPRESSIONS 2 for 1 special

Call @rojo at 666–1212

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

@Darth_Algar Nope, I’m being honest. I’m going out of my way to save those nearest to me, including my four-legged family members, before someone I do not know and do not care about.
Guess you can’t rag on a father who kills his daughter to save the family from disgrace because she did not wait until marriage to go boink a boy. He may not care if he sired her, the family name needed to be protected in his mind. It might be as important to you as saving ”furry family members”, so you can’t fault him for that.

Darth_Algar's avatar

And the Staggeringly Full of Shit Post of the Day award goes to @Hypocrisy_Central. Congratulations.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

^ Good you have your opinion, but you have no authority about anything so…..whatever….

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