General Question

belladonna_rose's avatar

Would this still be considered rape (possibly NSFW)

Asked by belladonna_rose (69 points ) June 10th, 2014

So I know this is a difficult question to answer because everyone has a different definition of rape, but I’m just confused and looking for a little peace of mind here. So I was with this guy that I knew really well, we weren’t technically dating since I’d said previously that I wasn’t ready for a “real” relationship, but we were sexually active. The first time I went over to his house with the intention of losing my virginity it was consensual on both parts. But when I went back, knowing full well that it would happen again, I didn’t want to do it. I didn’t feel good about it, I knew he didn’t love me like I love him and I was kind of scared. But I didn’t say anything. I didn’t say yes, and I didn’t verbally say no. We had sex about 13 or 14 times over the course of our “relationship” and about half the times I was really into it but the other half I didn’t want it and I never said yes. Sometimes I would try and stop him from taking my clothes off but would eventually give in, other times I would just lay there and not say or do anything at all. Now I know that since I didn’t SAY no that it’s technically my fault, but would it still be considered rape? Especially since we had consensual sex in between? I don’t know if that made any sense but I just want to get this off my mind. (P.S. All this started in November of last year and ended in February of this year, I was 17 at the time and he was 20. Don’t know if any of that matters but I thought I’d stick it in there just in case.)

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

68 Answers

Seek's avatar

Depending on where you lived, it’s statutory rape, since you were under 18 and he was over 18. Some places have an age of consent of 16 if the older party is less than 25 or something like that.

I am not involved in the legal profession, but if you’re asking in order to bring up charges, I would say that outside of the statutory thing you don’t have much of a case.

I don’t know what any of us could say to give you peace of mind.

GloPro's avatar

It doesn’t sound like he forced himself on you to me. You didn’t really address that.

I assume he has not been your last sexual partner. Do you verbally say yes and give verbal permission to other guys every single time?

Men are terrible mind readers.

AshLeigh's avatar

It sounds to me like he didn’t even knew you didn’t want to. Some guys don’t understand that when you say “no” it does not mean “convince me.”

Darth_Algar's avatar

It doesn’t really sound like he coerced you or forced himself on you. Sounds like you just weren’t in to it is all. That’s not rape.

johnpowell's avatar

You can’t really say rape if you regret your actions later or he makes you mad. And just laying there describes every girl I had sex with in High School. Not being into it isn’t rape.

Earthbound_Misfit's avatar

Even though you did not say ‘no’, on the occasions when you tried to stop him taking your clothes off, if you made it very clear you didn’t want to have sex through your actions, that would be rape.

On the other occasions, if you didn’t try to stop him and didn’t verbally signify you didn’t want sex, then I don’t see how you can expect him to know. Even if you feel your demeanor was obviously not consenting, he isn’t a mind reader.

pleiades's avatar

If I were a juror, and you were suing this man for rape. I’d have to rule out rape.

”***Sometimes I would try and stop him from taking my clothes off*** but would eventually give in…”

I like the first half of that sentence. If you ended it with a period I would say yes, that’s rape. But then you go, “But would eventually give in…”

Ergo, you consented with your actions and let him know this was a two way deal.

NO RAPE HERE

Earthbound_Misfit's avatar

Are you doing okay? Obviously this isn’t a new situation. Is there a reason you’re asking this now? If you’re struggling with this, please call a rape crisis line. They have trained counselors who can talk to you and they can answer all your questions and hopefully help you feel clearer about these things.

If you were underage when sexual intercourse took place, that’s rape. An underage person cannot consent to have sex.

Incidentally, rape is defined as “forced, manipulated, or COERCED sexual contact by a stranger, friend or acquaintance. It is an act of aggression and power combined with some form of sex. A person is forced into sexual contact through verbal coercion, threats, physical restraint, and/or physical violence”.
http://www.clarku.edu/offices/dos/survivorguide/definition.cfm

Also, this is from the University of Michigan.

“The University of Michigan Policy on Sexual Misconduct by Students defines consent as a clear and unambiguous agreement, expressed in mutually understandable words or actions, to engage in a particular activity. Consent can be withdrawn by either party at any point. Consent must be voluntarily given and may not be valid if a person is being subjected to actions or behaviors that elicit emotional or psychological pressure, intimidation, or fear. Consent to engage in one sexual activity, or past agreement to engage in a particular sexual activity, cannot be presumed to constitute consent to engage in a different sexual activity or to engage again in a sexual activity. Consent cannot be validly given by a person who is incapacitated.

Coercion is a tactic used by perpetrators to intimidate, trick, or force someone to have sex with him/her without physical force. Perpetrators use many forms of coercion, threats, and manipulation to rape including alcohol and drugs.”

http://sapac.umich.edu/article/49

susanc's avatar

Good answer @Earthbound_Misfit but I don’t think this young woman was tricked or intimidated. I think she felt that since she was sometimes interested in sex, she was called upon to act interested all the time. She’s not alone in this regard but this is a rigid way of thinking that she’ll grow out of – she’s working it out right now. It’s also true that her partner at the time was also pretty young and pretty unskilled. But that’s how we learn.

MollyMcGuire's avatar

The law is the only definition you need. Look up rape in your state’s criminal code.

Earthbound_Misfit's avatar

@susanc, I’m confused by your post. How can you say whether she was tricked or intimidated or not? I’m not saying she was or wasn’t because her post doesn’t make clear exactly what happened. However, I’m not reading the suggestions you’ve made in your post. ’...she was called upon to act interested all the time” and “she’ll grow out of it”. She’ll grow out of what? Women can be married for years and still experience partner rape. She obviously has concerns that something that happened could have been rape. We don’t really know how or to what extent this young man encouraged, persuaded or coerced her to have sex. If he coerced her, and was aware she was not willing, then yes, he raped her. Where is the ‘grow out of it’ part of that?

JLeslie's avatar

How old are you both? Your ages might change my answer.

It doesn’t sound like rape to me, but I was not in the room, and I can’t be sure whether you are playing down details. Take this as a lesson that if you don’t want to have sex to not have it. Be clear you dont want to. Women “going along” with what others want them to do is a big problem in our society not only with sex, but many other things. Women tend to lose themselves. If you learn young to think with your own mind and stand up for what you want you will be ahead of the game.

Now you know how you feel during and afterwards when you have sex and you didn’t really feel like it. These are things we learn as we go in life. It doesn’t matter if you had consensual sex before, each time you have sex you are allowed to say no, you always have the right to stop someone from touching you sexually or otherwise. In realtio ships it isn’t very unusual for people to have sex sometimes when they aren’t feeling like it, but they are in a relationship, so the underlying sentiment is that they want to have sex within the relationship, just not in that moment. Your situation is he is just a friend with benefits. That’s the real problem I think, you are having sex in a situation that maybe for you is not emotionally close enough to be having sex.

I urge you not to turn it into rape because of some legal definition if you don’t feel raped. Unless you are under 18 and he is over 20. Then I have a different opinion.

Bill1939's avatar

I wonder why you wanted to lose your virginity. That you voluntarily continued the sexual relationship for several months with your friend suggests that you felt a need to explore your sexuality. I think that discussing this with a psychologist would be advantageous.

GloPro's avatar

@JLeslie She was 17, he 20.

@Earthbound_Misfit The age of consent varies by state, but in some states it is as low as 13. So a minor can consent to sex. As @Seek mentioned, the biggest factor here is that a 17 year old cannot consent to sex with a 20 year old. That is considered statutory rape.

JLeslie's avatar

In some states if the age difference is less than 4 years it is not rape. Honestly, 17 and 20 I would not feel good in this situation locking up the 20 year old and giving him a life long badge of rapist. Even though he should know better, and took a stupid risk. The OP said she wanted to lose her virginity. Why? I don’t know. Was the guy working on her to get her to do it? That would bother me. Was it her idea?

Dutchess_III's avatar

Well, you had sex. It’s not unusual for a woman to not be that into it sometimes. What peace of mind are you looking for? Do you feel guilty because you had sex? Why do you even want to call it rape when it wasn’t? So you can say it wasn’t your fault? It was your fault, as much as his. You did what you did. If you feel you made a mistake, all you can do is not do it again in the future. Pretty sure we’ve all had sex with people that we regretted having sex with.

Take it easy on yourself.

belladonna_rose's avatar

@Seek The age of consent in my state is 16 and I don’t want to press charges or anything like that, it’s just something I think about a lot.

@GloPro I haven’t been with anyone sexually since him.

@Earthbound_Misfit I’m doing okay I suppose, it’s just been on my mind a lot and I’m having trouble moving on from it.

@JLeslie I’m not looking to get him into any trouble, I definitely don’t want him to do any time or have to live with the label of a sex offender for the rest of his life. I’m asking purely for myself.

@Dutchess_III I don’t want to call it rape, I don’t want him to be thought of as a rapist and I don’t want to be thought of as a victim. I don’t want to blame him either, which is the reason I’m not trying to get him into trouble with the law. I’m just trying to figure out if it’s legally rape because it’s affected me a lot and I’m having a difficult time forgetting it. I just want to know so I can figure out how to get past this. I know that I made a mistake and I know that there’s nothing I can do to take it back. But I’ve been told by several people that it was rape and I’ve been told by several people that it wasn’t. I’m just confused and I wanted an outside opinion on the situation.

JLeslie's avatar

@belladonna_rose I wasn’t clear enough, I never thought you were trying to get him into trouble, I was talking to the greater jelly community about the topic in general, not your case sprecifically. Do you feel raped? You say you are having trouble forgetting it. What exactly? What are you troubled by? @Bill1939 might be right that a psychologist might help. Or, maybe you can just talk it through here or with an adult you trust. Depending n the laws in your state you can just lie about his age or not tell who it is if you have concern about him getting in trouble. What state are you in? I doubt it is legally statutory rape. I’m not a lawyer though. Whether it was some other sort of rape depends on the details.

It souds like you have a lot of regret maybe? Or, do you really feel you were forced against your will to have sex?

Maybe think abut the situation as if you are him. Should he have understood you didn’t want to have sex?

Dutchess_III's avatar

Well, I think maybe you’re just feeling guilty. But it isn’t his fault. You just can’t blame him. The only thing that will make you feel better is time. I regretted the first guy I had sex with too. It will pass.

@JLeslie She states clearly that she went to his house for the first time specifically to lose her virginity, and went back many more times knowing that they were going to have sex. I hope to God she does leave him out of it. It could destroy his life, and it was HER idea.

JLeslie's avatar

@Dutchess_III Yes, the way I interpret everything she wrote, he did not rape her. I would not think to say a boy raped me because I went along with sex when I wasn’t sure I wanted to do it. I think our society they pushes girls to believe they were raped. It’s with the good intention of trying to reassure girls they can come forward and tell they were raped, but the bad part is when it is gray and fuzzy girls can feel even worse I think, instead of being able to brush of some bad judgment they had in the moment. Just to be clear I am not saying girls should brush off actual rape. I don’t know if I am explaining myself well. I feel like a lot of jellies might jump all over me.

For all we know the OP told her story to a friend and the friend told her she was raped. I think a woman knows if she was raped or not. Although, statutory is more tricky. A 15 year old can feel very sure in her decision to have sex and we still will feel if it was with a 30 year old she was taken advantage of and preyed upon.

Dutchess_III's avatar

They’re pretty close in age though. Also, I don’t know what the laws are in her state. It may not have even been statutory rape.

This question kind of scares me, to be honest.

JLeslie's avatar

I don’t think this is statutory rape, I just meant in general. I don’t know if you have been on other Q’s with me regarding rape, but I really take issue with people who just say rape is rape no matter what. I think there is a big difference between two high school kids having sex and one is 4 years older (not the case on this Q I realize) and someone having a gun pointed in their face by a stranger and being raped.

Dutchess_III's avatar

GA @JLeslie. Rape is rape. You can’t go to a guy’s house to have sex, then turn around and call it rape.

cazzie's avatar

All I want to say to this young girl is TAKE CONTROL OVER YOURSELF! If you don’t want to have sex, don’t damn well have it. You are under NO obligation to a man, EVER. If you are wishy washing about it like you describe, you will simply end up feeling used and like shit, which is what I am thinking prompted this question. Stand up for yourself, girl!

Dutchess_III's avatar

But the thing is @cazzie, if she didn’t want to have sex she shouldn’t have gone to his house. She went there each time strictly to HAVE sex.

cazzie's avatar

No… just showing up at a house does not mean someone wants sex. NOTHING like that should ever be taken for granted simply by crossing someone’s threshold. Even if they started making out, she should have been confortable to say,, NO.. and she could have been asked at that point to go home, fine… or they could sit and watch a movie together. JUST because they had sex last time she was over, doesn’t give him a free ticket to her snatch when ever she goes to his house. She didn’t say, ‘No.’ Or better yet… ‘Get the fuck off me.’ and I get the feeling because she doesn’t feel empowered enough to do so.

JLeslie's avatar

@Dutchess_III She can change her mind at any time. She needs to know that. She can go over there thinking she is going to have sex and then get there and change her mind and not agree to it. They can be half naked in a bed, and if she decides it is a mistake she can say no and leave. She needs to know that. @cazzie is right.

The OP is young, she understandably is not even sure what she wants to do, so she is easily swayed by this young man. Sex is confusing, it is hard for a young person to know how they are going to feel, she is learning. I think she is learning that she would be better off having sex with someone she is in a serious relationship with rather than just having sex because it feels good. It doesn’t feel good when it feels like a man is masterbating inside of you, and that is how I describe sex with a man who doesn’t love me in a romantic way. Once in a while there is a mutual chemical thing where two people just want to fuck, but the aftermath of that sometimes is filled with regret, but even if there is not any regret it is a one time thing, or a when we are drunk thing, or a we did it a few times thing. It’s different for everyone, but that has been my observation of friends and myself.

Dutchess_III's avatar

But that’s what she said @cazzie“But when I went back, knowing full well that it would happen again…”

They weren’t even dating, from what I could tell. She didn’t go over to watch a movie or just hang out, or for any other reason.

Also, from what I’m seeing, she could have just left. She could have just walked out the door, but she didn’t.

I feel for her. I think she’s feeling used. I’ve felt used. It’s the most horrible feeling in the world. It makes one feel just disgusting and stupid. And that would explain her embarrassment, and possibly feeling like she wants to get “even.”

This too shall pass @belladonna_rose. Your feelings will subside. It was a hard lesson to learn.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Oh, and of course @cazzie and @JLeslie are absolutely right.

JLeslie's avatar

Where did she say she wants to get even? I missed that.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I’m thinking that why the issue of “rape” even came up, when it clearly wasn’t rape.

Earthbound_Misfit's avatar

@belladonna_rose I would suggest talking to a counseling service. You sound very confused about what did happen. While people here can make judgements based on the limited information we have, talking to someone who can ask you questions and discuss it with you on a one-to-one basis will provide you with a more accurate appraisal of your situation. You also need to speak to someone who has accurate information from a legal perspective rather than us guessing what’s legal in your state. You could ring a rape counseling line or some other women’s health line. This is obviously bothering you so please consider calling someone.

@Glopro, if the legal age of consent is 13 in her state then why couldn’t she consent to have sex with someone aged 20? How would that be statutory rape if she’s over the age of consent? If the legal age of consent is 18 where she is and she’s 17, then legally she wouldn’t be considered able to give consent. Regardless, whatever is legally considered to be ‘underage’ in her location would apply and she can’t legally give consent if she’s under the age of consent in her location.

Dutchess_III's avatar

That would be awful, to approach a guy for sex, then turn him him for statutory rape. I agree she’s confused, and probably hurt and regretful, but I don’t see how punishing the guy she approached would help. It would just add extra layers of guilt on to what she’s already dealing with.

I don’t think anyone is judging her. Many of us were probably younger than her when we had sex the first time (I was 15,) but she does have to accept her share of the responsibility for it all. She approached him and on the times she went over to have sex, and changed her mind, she never told him “No.” She tried to use body language or something to say “no” and obviously he missed it, or thought she was playing hard to get. And in the end, she gave in. That’s not judging. Those are the facts. We’ve all been there, done that.

GloPro's avatar

Maybe if several people hasn’t misinformed her that she was raped she wouldn’t feel so guilty and confused.

Maybe she is assuming it was rape because she follows Antioch College’s infamous sexual assault policy..

Dutchess_III's avatar

I think she’s assuming it was rape because about half the time she wasn’t interested (even though that’s why she’d gone over there) but didn’t actually say “No,” and he talked her into it. Men can be very uncaring and callous that way.

Wow. According to your link @GloPro, I’ve been raped about a million times!

GloPro's avatar

Do you remember that? My cousin was a student at Antioch when that crap came out.

Dutchess_III's avatar

No, I never heard of it. It’s pretty damn ridiculous overall. Of course people should give consent but the to the degree they’re suggesting isn’t really reasonable.

Seek's avatar

Sorry, sweetie. I’ve had a martini and so I’m not legally capable of consenting to sex. Maybe tomorrow.

Earthbound_Misfit's avatar

So because she consented on numerous occasions, there’s no possibility she was coerced or intimidated on other occasions? None of us know whether she was or was not raped, that’s why she should speak to someone who can actually have a conversation with her. There are plenty of women out there who have been raped but because of society’s attitudes, fear of how the system will treat them, embarrassment and/or blaming themselves, don’t report the rapist. In this case, it’s very possible she wasn’t raped but she’s asking the question which means she has some doubt. It’s obviously concerning her. And she therefore needs responsible counseling from someone who can give her accurate, unbiased and real advice.

As to her not being judged, there are a number of statements here that say she needs to grow up, she’s immature, she’ll grow out of it etc. We don’t know what happened between these two people and we definitely can’t say for sure if rape was or was not involved. She needs to speak to someone who can tell her that. Someone who knows where she is and knows the legal situation and importantly, someone who can speak to her on a one-to-one basis and can listen to her with a critical ear but from an informed position.

Dutchess_III's avatar

She herself says she wasn’t raped. I think she’s asking the question because A) someone told her it could be “rape,” as in statutory rape, and that isn’t fair, and B) if she can claim rape she can perhaps absolve herself of the guilt it sounds like she’s feeling.

We’ve all been 17 and most of us were pretty immature at 17. What is wrong with pointing that out? We have all had bad sexual experiences, that left us with whatever negative feelings, especially women, about ourselves. The only real cure for that is time.

But I agree, she needs to talk to someone. I just hope the boy doesn’t get in trouble.

Earthbound_Misfit's avatar

It’s okay as long as we don’t just assume we know she wasn’t raped. If she didn’t want to have sex and he coerced her into it, whether she’s said yes a million times before, that IS rape. If he intimidated her into having sex just once, again, regardless of what happened before, that is also rape. We don’t know what happened really and she’s confused.

Yes she’s young and she may be naive but she’s asking for advice and being told she’ll grow out of it. We can’t really answer this question. She needs real advice. She needs to be able to understand what is and what is not rape and that means communicating with someone with knowledge on a one-on-one basis who can make sure she is clear.

Imagine if he did coerce or intimidate her into having sex and she’s being told, she’ll grow out of feeling that’s wrong or uncomfortable? If he did that, she needs to be able to recognise it for what it is and know how to deal with it next time it happens. It’s quite likely she will encounter intimidating or coercive males at some point in the future. She needs to be able to recognise and manage situations she’s not comfortable with. And if someone rapes her, regardless of what’s happened in the past, she needs to be able to call it rape and make sure the male is aware that’s what he’s done or trying to do.

Dutchess_III's avatar

I agree with much of what you’re saying @Earthbound_Misfit (and I’m glad you found Fluther too) but just based on what she has told us, it wasn’t rape. I mean, how many times have you told your S/O you “weren’t in the mood” and he just worked on you till you were “in the mood” or at least ready to get it over with so he’d leave you alone? Gosh, that was the only reason she even went to his place was for sex, and you don’t expect him to try and convince her to change her mind when she changed her mind?

No one said she’ll “grow out of it,” but I, at least, am saying that time will sooth the bad feelings she’s having about it. She obviously didn’t expect the emotional baggage that, women especially, wind up with about sex. And I feel sorry for her. But we’ve all been there.

Yes, she absolutely needs to know that she has the right to say No, and to stand firm, if she wants to, no matter what her partner may do or say.

She just needs to be more careful in the future.

Darth_Algar's avatar

@Earthbound_Misfit “if the legal age of consent is 13 in her state then why couldn’t she consent to have sex with someone aged 20? How would that be statutory rape if she’s over the age of consent? If the legal age of consent is 18 where she is and she’s 17, then legally she wouldn’t be considered able to give consent. Regardless, whatever is legally considered to be ‘underage’ in her location would apply and she can’t legally give consent if she’s under the age of consent in her location.”

It isn’t as simple as saying “this age is statutory rape and this age isn’t”. States (and countries) each have their own codes on the books for what is and is not statutory rape, and sometimes those codes aren’t clear cut. Some codes get kinda complicated depending on ages involved (ie: “within X amount of years of Y age isn’t statutory rape, but even within X amount of years of Z age is, and after A age is doesn’t matter” and so on). Figuring out what can legally be considered statutory rape can be tricky. Furthermore, depending on jurisdiction, isn’t not even considered statutory rape unless the parents decide to press the issue.

Dutchess_III's avatar

My Dad threatened one of my boyfriends with statutory rape once. Scared the livin’ shit out of him, since he was a 19 year old police-in-training person at the time. I wasn’t late getting home again for the next six months, until I turned 18.

belladonna_rose's avatar

EVERYONE READ THIS PLEASE: First of all, my going over to his house is not my giving consent to have sex. Yes I said that I knew he would want to but that’s not the reason I spent time with him. I didn’t go to his house with the intention of having sex but I was aware that that was what he would want. With that mindset anytime a girl goes to a guy’s house she’s saying she’s okay with having sex just because she’s over, and that is absolutely ridiculous. I’m going to make this clear again, I’m NOT trying to get even, I’m NOT trying to get revenge, I’m NOT trying to DO anything except move on. I was also OVER the age of consent at the time so it was NOT statutory, that’s not what I’m asking. I’m NOT going to turn him in for anything, I haven’t even talked to him since we stopped having sex. I did not go to his house to have sex, I went to spend time with him because I love him and I like being around him. When I say that I “wasn’t into it” I mean that I did not want to do it, not that I just wasn’t in the mood. When I say “I eventually gave in” it’s because he wouldn’t give up and I was terrified of what he would say and or do if I kept resisting. I understand that I hold responsibility for part of this, probably all of this, for not clearly saying no and for placing myself in this situation so I think we can all agree that I’m being ridiculous and immature and that nothing happened to me other than what I brought upon myself. Like I said before, it wasn’t that I wasn’t in the mood, it’s that I did not want to have sex for reasons that I can’t explain to you through this back and forth banter. So we’ve established that it was NOT statutory rape since I was over 16 and that is the age in my state. We’ve established that it wasn’t rape at all since I didn’t clearly say no. And we’ve established that what I’m feeling is purely regret from having sex when I didn’t want to and I should move on. Thank you all for your amazing answers, now we can all get along again.

GloPro's avatar

@belladonna_rose You fail to understand the difference between age of consent and statutory rape.

Other than that, you’ve altered a few previous statements, so I can’t opine further.

belladonna_rose's avatar

@GloPro Which statements have I altered?

GloPro's avatar

OK, straight truth time:

In the OP: “The first time I went over to his house with the intention of losing my virginity it was consensual on both parts.”

In your demanded retraction above: “I didn’t go to his house with the intention of having sex but I was aware that that was what he would want.”

You’re either lying to yourself, to us, or a little of both. Either way, you have contradicted yourself a few times. I refuse to give opinions if you feed us a shaded, biased, and changing account of the situation.

If you would like to re-read just your statements so far you will see the other disparities. You went from “eventually giving in” and “having consensual sex in between” to “being terrified of what he would say and or do if I kept resisting.”

I seriously hope you are intending to leave this guy out of your emotional turmoil over whatever really happened. If I were to be his defense lawyer I would eat you alive and the whole thing would cause more harm to both of you than good. I agree that if you feel violated because of whatever transpired that you should see a counselor. Being unsure and feeling coerced because you are not confident and gave in can make you feel regret. He might have felt jerked around and teased, which is another viewpoint entirely. You did, after all, eventually get naked. Whether it was because he forced you in terror or you felt peer pressured is only ever going to be known by the two of you. And after you altering some of your statements, I’m not sure if you even know yourself.

belladonna_rose's avatar

@GloPro Yes, the first time but I’m not talking about the first time I’m talking about the other times. I’m not changing what I said about giving in I’m just trying to explain what I meant by it. We did have consensual sex in between, but the times that I’m asking about I was scared. I’m not contradicting myself I’m trying to give people a clearer vision of what I mean because there seems to be some confusion as to what my words mean. I genuinely appreciate your contribution to my question but I don’t appreciate being told that I’m altering my statements when that’s not what I’m trying to do. I get that it’s easy to misunderstand what people are saying since it’s hard to express emotion through text alone. I have said multiple times that I AM NOT INVOLVING HIM in this in any way, I am asking for my own sake and nothing else. I haven’t even told him how I feel about all this. Again I am NOT altering my statements, I’m trying to explain myself so people can have a better understanding of my situation. Honestly if you don’t like the way I’m asking this you don’t have to accuse me of being shady and biased, you can just not answer at all. Again, thank you for your input I really do appreciate it, but please refrain from accusing me of doing something that I’m not doing.

GloPro's avatar

I didn’t say shady. I am not saying you are intentionally lying. Everyone rewrites history in their mind. That’s why I mentioned lying to self. You are definitely biased. Every opinion is.

You did and have appeared to alter statements. We responded given the watered down version, then you come in and tell us you were scared, even terrified. I am forced to wonder why you continued to go back for consensual sex in between the times you said you were terrified and scared. That is most perplexing.

I agree you can say no at any time. It raises questions in my mind as to why, if you were terrified, you did not remove or distance yourself from the situation.

I am not being accusatory. I am being blatantly honest. Sometimes people dance around the answer they would like to give. I’m not that type, generally. Please believe I’m not judging you. I just don’t mince words based on the info given and the way I see it. It is pretty clear you altered your OP to a situation more serious in your clarification. How do you expect us to give you feedback if you don’t share what needs to be said right up front. Jellies that have been here awhile and somewhat know each other have the luxury of being vague or leaving out important info and still getting proper feedback. As a newbie, you do not have that luxury. You should have expressed the fear and so on in the OP, not after everyone responded to the OP as it was written.

My responses are not personal. Blunt, yes, but you just have to trust that I will respond honestly as I understand the scenario.

susanc's avatar

Let’s cut @belladonna_rose some slack and leave our own anxieties behind. She is sincerely working her own thoughts out; talking to us is one of her ways of doing that. She shouldn’t have to be clear all the time; she came here to figure out where her clarity lies. Who finds that easy? I’m impressed with her for dealing with all of us characters.
I would like to refer her back to @cazzie, who is telling her she’s allowed to say exactly what’s true in the moment, even if it isn’t consistent with other moments – to live as a person and not a robot. She’s figuring out how to know and protect her personal truth. Inspiring.

Dutchess_III's avatar

Thank you for clearing this up. I guess I’m confused as to why the word ‘rape’ even came up. But I am relieved to know that the young man is out of danger.

And now you know. Once you have sex with a guy, they’re going to expect it every time you see them, especially if it’s been a few days. It can get frustrating and wearying, and welcome to the world of women.

Only thing is, I have to agree with @GloPro….if you were “terrified” at any time for any reason, I can’t fathom why you would go back at all.

Talk to a counselor if you think it will help, but also know that time will heal.

Dutchess_III's avatar

BTW, your reaction is not unusual, if that helps. The first time I had sex I was 15, and it was with a guy I had dated for about 6 months. It was a calculating decision on my part, just as it was on yours. Afterward, I was so…disappointed or something, confused, whatever, and I dreaded having to do it again with him and I knew I would be expected to. Lost it on a Saturday night (at a freakin’ drive in that was showing The Harrod Experiment O_o) and broke up with him first thing Monday morning.

JLeslie's avatar

@belladonna_rose Scared of what? Were you scared he would stop wanting to be your friend, or scared he would hurt you? Have you not talked to him, because you don’t want to, or because he has stopped talking to you now that you don’t want to have sex? Sex ruins friendships a lot of the time. It makes things get all wierd.

There is nothing wrong with you wanting to talk things through and sort out your feelings. Don’t let people put ideas in your head about how you should feel. Don’t let how people here might have misinterpreted your words get you angry or upset. The Internet is a difficult place to communicate. What you did was good, you clarified any misconceptions by any of us jellies here.

Dutchess_III's avatar

^^^ Agreed. Yeah, we were here yesterday, all day, debating on what you meant by this and this and that, but you weren’t here to clarify so we misinterpreted some stuff. Sorry. It’s a tough road for women. Takes a long time to get comfortable with it all. Having someone who really loves you helps immensely.

belladonna_rose's avatar

@JLeslie I was scared that he would get mad and hurt me. I had a huge panic attack in his room the last time I went over to his place, we ended up not having sex because I left, then he stopped talking to me and hasn’t started since.

GloPro's avatar

My advice is to move on from talking to this guy or wanting to talk to this guy. I would also refrain from making out or being in situations in which you may feel pressured until you can better wrap your head around sexuality and the reasons for having sexual contact. The last thing you want to do is continue to tie negative associations to sexual encounters.

Sex is fun. It should be fun. If the thought of having sex is giving you anxiety and panic attacks you’re doing it wrong. Please make smarter decisions to not place yourself in those situations. Go on public dates. Going to a guy’s house does not sound like a good idea for you at this time. ALL 20 year old men want to have sex and will pressure you in a variety of ways. The best way to stop having these negative feelings and encounters is to stay away from going to his house. Any guy’s house, for that matter.

My situation doesn’t really matter, but I’ll tell you anyway. I lost my virginity at 13. I felt bad immediately afterward and voiced not wanting to do it again. The boy said to me, “Girls like you don’t stop.”
I didn’t have sex again until I was 17.

It is possible to stay out of situations in which sex is expected. It becomes much harder to do when you put yourself in situations with cute boys you feel things for and allow yourself to be coerced out of your clothes. When you allow pressure to be the reason behind having sex you are creating negative associations that can really start to fuck with your head. Keep your clothes on until you are so excited to make out with the person in front of you that you can’t wipe the stupid grin off of your face and you feel happy butterflies. That’s how it should be.

JLeslie's avatar

@belladonna_rose Why did you think he would hurt you? Did he get angry when you resisted? Did his grip get tighter on you so you couldn’t pull away? That is a problem in my mind if you were actually afraid because of what he was saying or doing.

GloPro's avatar

@Earthbound_Misfit On a side note: the Age of Consent has absolutely nothing to do with statutory rape. What that means is that a line is drawn in the sand (varies by state) at which point a juvenile can consent to sex. Two 14 year olds can legally go at it all day long if that is the age of consent. A 13 year old can have sex with a 17 year old in North Carolina and no law has been broken.
Statutory rape involves having sex, consensual included, with a minor. As previously mentioned, there is a gray zone in most states to account for 16 to 20 year olds (give or take). However, regardless of the age of consent being 16, it is a hard fast law that a 16 year old cannot legally have sex with a 30 year old.
I just wanted to somewhat clarify the independent nature of the two issues, as I had not seen it yet clarified in this thread. They are two independently working laws that frequently overlap.

Dutchess_III's avatar

@belladonna_rose If you were afraid he would hurt you, why in God’s name were you any where near the guy? You were scared he’d hurt you, then he stopped talking to you? As in you were still trying to make contact with him after all that terror?

This is utterly ridiculous. Now you know what sex is. Get over it, and go find someone who loves you and who you can trust.

cazzie's avatar

@belladonna_rose I’m sorry some people here are being so harsh on you. I remember when I was 17 and I hardly had my head around who I was much less what sex was about. If you want to have a REAL conversation about this, a place like this isn’t the best.

(I remember my first post here… I was so personally attacked on a subject the attackers totally obviously didn’t understand and were knee jerking something fierce…. but that is what you get on the internets.)

GloPro's avatar

@cazzie If the boy were posting a question about a girl that said she loved him but didn’t want a relationship, yet continued to come over to sometimes have consensual sex and sometimes have anxiety attacks we would all suggest he leave her alone. I don’t believe any of us would tell him having sex with her when she was being confusing and wishy washy without ever saying no would constitute him raping her. We would tell him to stop having sex with her. I can definitely understand why he cut off communication with her. I think that was the best move he could have made for both of them. I also believe him cutting off communication is partially driving her confusion. He wasn’t rejecting her because she wouldn’t have sex. He was rejecting her because she is obviously confused and guys hate drama. He most likely found a girl who isn’t so on the fence about sex.

This was just a learning experience in my opinion. I worry about putting too many validating presumptions to her side of the story. We may be blunt, but do not discount what we are saying.

JLeslie's avatar

Well, I think we could argue the boy needs to be told that what he did can be perceived as rape and he better watch it. This is why the label rape can be so tricky. If he wasn’t letting her leave and made her afraid to say no then something isn’t right. Girls need to be clear and boys need to make sure they have permission to keep going. Boys usually are the ones doing the pursuing and young women aren’t sure what they want necessarily so it is understandably very confusing.

It is not uncommon for young women to do things that seem to make no sense regarding relationships. They stay when boys hit them, they have sex when they are unsure, they want to be with a boy who only calls when he has nothing better lined up. It’s a problem and we need to help girls know what is normal and let boys know too.

@GloPro If the guy in some way strong armed her saying no was not even necessary. If she was trying to pull away, or stop him from touching her. I once had a guy who weighed much more than me get scary. We were kissing a little on his bed and next thing I know I feel trapped underneath of him and it is obvious he wants more. Luckily, I was able to get free, but if he had really been intent on having forced sex with me I don’t think I could have escaped. He was much much stronger than I am. I didn’t have to say the actual word no for it to be obvious I did not want to have sex.

@belladonna_rose As someone said above, don’t have sex again until you are in a relationship with a nice guy and you both are so horny you can’t wait to get naked. At your age that is what sex should be like. You should be happy and excited to be with him, whomever the him is, not afraid. I get the feeling maybe you hoped this boy would like you more than just as a friend. Is that the case? Are you upset that you lost your virginity with him? Don’t worry about that part of it. You got the losing your virginity thing out of the way, now you don’t have to think about virginity anymore. Society makes that too big of a deal.

cazzie's avatar

How does me being empathetic validate anything here. I’m saying stop with the super judginess and remember what you were like at that age. Have some sympathy here. Do I approve? No, not really, but I’m not going to tell her she is messed-up or stupid, or wishy washy and gets what she deserves either. She is young and finding her way. Did she have sex too soon? yeah, I think she did, but making her feel bad about it is a HORRIBLE thing to do. It is what it is and she just needs to learn from this and move on. She needs to create some sense of self empowerment. She does not want to go through life being a victim or a doormat. For some of us, we need to learn that lesson the hard way, but we need to learn it. I wish I could talk to my 17 year old self. I think we should be judging less and helping more.

GloPro's avatar

Woah. I didn’t read anyone calling her stupid. I also didn’t read anyone telling her she got what she deserves. No one called her messed up, either. Clearly you should re-read all responses.

She herself admits to being wishy-washy, although not in those words. Her view of what happened is just that… Her view. All versions are biased. I pointed out a possible viewpoint from the young man. Sometimes we forget to put ourselves in the other person’s shoes. She should consider how he saw this all go down, too.

Just because some of us are not coddling the OP does not mean anyone has attacked her. It is a very valid question to ask her why she continued to go to a boy’s house that made her feel fear, knowing he would want sex when she was unsure. She honestly needs to dig deep and evaluate her answers to those questions. Whether she does so or not here is irrelevant. She does need to be told some varied viewpoints in order to evaluate what happened and how she can better control her circumstances in the future. If all answers were to soothe her and tell her we all feel that way then we would not be honest or helpful.

It is not unreasonable for us to worry about the welfare of the guy just as much as the welfare of the OP. If you notice, I gave both direct observation commentary and later gave some advice that I believe shows empathy. She is an adult. She can handle hearing observation and commentary from multiple stances. She stuck up for herself when she felt I offended her. Kudos.

If I was not empathetic I would not have shared my experience. I lost my virginity at 13. Who am I to judge her for choosing to have sex? I haven’t judged that factor at all. I haven’t tried to make her feel bad about having sex, either. I also haven’t read any other answers shaming her for having sex. I’m not sure we’re reading the same posts.

JLeslie's avatar

I don’t think anyone has judged her for having sex. Everyone wants to empower her to have sex only when she wants to. When we are young and curious all sorts of things can happen. We don’t know how we are going to react emotionally necessarily. Now she knows. We learn as we go.

She should not feel any guilt or regret. She should just move forward and realize this guy is a little bit of a jerk.

susanc's avatar

I can feel in this long conversation how passionately all of us wish this were easier, more
joyful, less pressured, less confusing – not just for our brave new friend @belladonna rose but for all of ourselves. We all deserved to have a fun, sweet, successful, mindbending but not frightening first sexual experience. Some of us got those experiences right away and some not till later. Let’s all have lots of them from now on. Let’s decide to have those and not the confusing, worrying, unlovely kind. Every time.

Hypocrisy_Central's avatar

Technically maybe, but actually not.

Answer this question

Login

or

Join

to answer.

This question is in the General Section. Responses must be helpful and on-topic.

Your answer will be saved while you login or join.

Have a question? Ask Fluther!

What do you know more about?
or
Knowledge Networking @ Fluther