[NSFW] What do we do as a society when people commit heinous unthinkable crimes?

Bat shit crazies do bat shit craziness. Only thing you can do is make sure they never get another chance to do it.

You stroke your own harbl at it, fuming at how awful these animals are, in order to distract yourself from the fact that the societies you live in, collectively, have done, and are doing things far worse than any serial killer could.
The systematic eradication of undesirables via the euphemistic “capital punishment”.
The torture of proclaimed enemies, extracting worthless information, to make yourself feel more “safe”.
Wars to acquire land and resources, while cowardly pretending to do it for “liberation”.
The enslavement of entire ethnicities.
Oppression and murder of those who have a different religion or politics.
Holocausts.

That man’s brain is probably sick beyond all healing, and to allow him to run free is to put the public at risk of him going all slashy crazy with increasing frequency and boldness. Putting him in the GP in prison is to put the prisoners at risk of the same darned thing. I don’t know if there are still sanitariums for the criminally insane, but this guy needs to be helped. Then, when he understands what he did, put on trial for the murder. That is the only way outside of the death penalty to deal with a horribly diseased mind.
Were I Shah. rather than subject this poor man to years of confinement from where he will probably never leave. I would grant him freedom from the terrors in his mind. Quickly and painlessly as our Russian brothers did/ or do. It is the humane (if we dare call it that) thing to do.

Truth is, not much you can do except charge him with first degree murder.

“Neighbors heard a loud struggle that lasted 2 hours.” What the heck? The crime is horrible, yes. But the fact that the neighbors heard it and did nothing boggles the mind.

Bottom line. The poor SOB has gotta die. In truth, there are many in our prison system that either by their crime, or by their indoctrination by prison life are no longer suitable to live with the general public. At some point out of mercy to all, and this includes the folks at Guantanamo bay, these people need to be euthanized. Should have offed that drug cartel guy that escaped back to Mexico too. His guilt was beyond any shadow of doubt.

Yes, “euthanise” the Gitmo inmates, who were not charged with nor convicted of any crime, and many of whom are likely innocent. Out of “mercy”.
You make me sick.

Tell that to the Christians massacred for no reason at all. At least we probably won’t behead them. That made me sick.

No, you would probably not behead them.
You would give them the good, traditional christian technique: Burning them alive at the stake.
Or put them into gas chambers, like your buddy Adolf.
Or give them a lethal injection, like Magda Goebbles did to her six little children.
Or line them all up against a wall like your comrade Stalin.

Under Geneva, I don’t think we have much latitude other that firing squad or hanging. Burning at the stake is what happens to Sunni’s and Christians under ISIS. Oh and Impalement.

And I guess I could just grab the nearest ‘murrikan tourist, and snap his neck.
He would be likely innocent of any crime himself, but hey, it would all be justified and merciful, because at least I would not torture him in some secret prison.

I, personally, would behead them. But I’ve seen what they have done. Shoulder to shoulder with other UN forces which would include probably some of your countrymen. It haunts me. I don’t understand how these guys can do such things to each other and still sleep. Such is the deepness of their devotion to the Jihad.

Yes, you would behead the innocent.
For what others have done.
And you see nothing wrong with that.
Evil is blind to itself.

Oh it’s wrong. But The men at Gitmo are far from innocent. It is wrong, but I have to stand between my people and what I see before me. War and Jihad are a dirty business and rules and morals have to sometimes be checked at the door. Tell me, How many million Jews did you kill?

@ragingloli @ragingloli

Maybe you two should take it outside

“rules and morals have to sometimes be checked at the door”
Wrong. They never must be allowed to be abandoned.
Because morals and rules are the only thing that differentiates the good guys from the bad.
Once you discard them, you become just as evil as them, and at that point, you deserve to be destroyed just as much as you think they should be.

Destigmatize mental illness. Define difference and separate those with deviant tendencies.
Make families less afraid of getting help early.
Dispel the myth that ‘all are capable’ of murder if provoked. There are signs.
Take note of concerns of teachers, etc. in educational evaluations as child, or activities while in school system without recrimination with serious incidents.
Stop making criminal activities so alluring in media and arts.
Frontal lobotomies without anesthesia.
There is no ‘fix’ for such. They will never be able to be released. He’ll go to prison, (until paroled) and become a thug there also. Well taken care of while in residence.
I strongly believe in allowing the perpetrator to go through what they did to another, until their death- like their victim.
Even if they claim to have found ‘faith’, they had time during their lives to do so prior to their crimes.
Cut back on appeals process for cases guilty beyond ANY doubt.

You have never seen combat. That I can tell. When it comes down to it as a civilized and disciplined soldier, you are only fighting to defend the man to your right and left. These whacks we are trying to help have some weird something going on in their brains. We try to adhere to the rules of engagement, but that puts us at a disadvantage. And that is out of the scope of the OP. Actually I should never have brought up the Guantanimo prisoners.
Hard core criminals are like the Jihadists though. Same mindset. Rules and laws don’t mean anything to them and by your own words should be destroyed.

Electric chair.

I remind myself that we are a civilized society that has laws and penalties to discourage those from doing these terrible things to other humans.

That’s the problem, in my opinion. Our society is thrilled with punishment. Most of us grow up getting punished, and children are routinely held accountable not only before sufficient teaching, but in place of it.

Bullying breeds bullies.

As someone who is fascinated by true crime stories from the comfort of a cozy armchair, yes, this story is horrific. Unfortunately, there are many worse cases. Are you familiar of the Scale of Evil?

Without more detail on Lopez’s personality and history, he may fall in the range of 8–9 out of 22. Let’s wait to see what other details crop up on the investigators’ radar.

Psychopaths are known for being smooth enough to talk their way out of a confrontation. Remember Jeffrey Dahmer? When a young naked man escaped from Dahmer’s apt. and someone called the police, Dahmer made up some excuse and delivered it convincingly. The teen was wrapped in a towel and escorted back to Dahmer’s apt. The police never ran a background check on Dahmer which, had they, the circumstances would probably have saved the boy’s life, as well as future victims. Dahmer is now ranked as a 22 out of 22 on the scale.

Did you hear about the Va. Tech murders of 32 students by Seung-Hui Cho? This was a fellow student who was diagnosed with a severe anxiety disorder as a teen. In this case, Cho’s personal history was not accessible to everyone who possibly should have had it due to his age. There were loopholes in the laws, and Va. has made an attempt to resolve them, along with other actions that pertain to campus policies.

(This situation touched very close to home. A nephew was a freshman at Va. Tech living in the same dorm and on the same floor as Cho at the time of the incident. What he went through and how he processed it, is just one sampling out of all of the people this impacted.)

What more can we and should we do as a society to correct and hopefully prevent tragedies like these? That’s a great question.

It should start with those closest to the perpetrator. The biggest challenge is that we apply our own actions to everyone around us. Who in the world could imagine doing the atrocious acts of what turns out to be an acquaintance, neighbor, co-worker or even a relative? We certainly wouldn’t. Yet, a mental red flag often goes up in many of these cases. Unfortunately, they often get brushed aside.

One way is to report questionable situations. @chyna brings up a valid point. If neighbors heard the disturbance for two hours, did they act on it? If they did, was any action taken?

Authorities need to follow up on them, be it a business or institution, police or other form of government. The more information that is provided, the more that is loaded into a database, then a pattern emerges.

The information that can be proven as fact not only builds a case but can be used as hindsight information on studying personality dysfunctions.

As for punishment for committing these crimes, it just needs to be addressed case-by-case. Every one of them is different. I’m not a fan of the death penalty. While some may never overcome their desire to harm others (and some have admitted it), others have. For those that won’t, they may still hold information, not only regarding their victims, but what may have caused them to become the person they are.

Does anyone know if he had any kind of previous record at all?

In situations like this I’m in favor of “Death by God” (i.e. life in prison without parole). He cannot be rehabilitated and trusted to be let loose in society ever again. He would have his freedom permanently revoked.

That’s the part I am torn on. Is it more cruel to deprive someone of freedom forever and surround him with violence and thugs, or the alternative? If it were me, i would choose hanging for myself. Especially if they had me dead to rights.

I believe that there has been a change in the way people look at criminals who commit heinous crimes. Used to be, justice prevails- they get locked up for life. Life ment life.
Now, IMO, with the advent of the OJSimpson acquittal, people seemed to have lost total faith in fair justice.
Jails are full of individuals whom even the older felons describe as falling under the ‘life is cheap’ belief. There no longer exists any Code of Honor amongst them. A questionable sense of personal honor (soon forgotten) seems to rule actions.
The worst criminals are timing back out on the street, eventually. ‘Life’ does not mean ‘life’ any longer.
‘If the gloves don’t fit…” mentality marked the end of a blind faith existing in fair justice.
Do some snap, then recover?
Would you trust your beloveds in a room with such as this person? With anyone’s beloveds?
There has always been the element of the population who are irredeemable.
Do we owe time and money to the likes of them?
What about using those time and monetary factors towards those where rehabilitation would make a redeemable difference?
That’s a very scary thing to consider.
Isn’t it?
Would it matter or differ if you were personally effected by this killer’s actions? To your most loved, or the innocents?
It’s very difficult to say.

There is killing and then there is torture. As I have said many times, some people are just broken. I am not going to lose any sleep over his execution which should come swiftly and without mercy. Yeah, go ahead and give him his day in court if would make you feel better but he admitted he did it so make it quick, ok?

Not everyone in society is civilized. If everybody was, there would be no crime, no war. Everything would be peace and love! But in our uncivilized world, when people do heinous wrongs, the other members of (somewhat) civil society lock up or kill the uncivil ones. And it is good that it is so!

If he’s found to have mental health issues, he should be placed in a mental institution.

If he’s not mentally ill, he should be gaoled for the rest of his life. I don’t agree with the death penalty. I do believe some people should forfeit their right to live amongst us. He is one of those people. A life sentence should be a life sentence.

@gorillapaws I am not a proponent of the death penalty either but situations like these I do get the urge to want to see these heinous criminals tied naked to a tree in Grizzly bear country and slather his crotch with peanut butter. Make it a pay per view event, broadcast it world wide and use the proceeds to pay down our national debt. ½ a dozen of these and we will have a surplus.

@Cruiser You’d better find some cover fast, though I don’t disagree in the least.

Bury the fuckers deep in a steaming pile of shit, then feed them the entrails of their young, grown from the hellish compost that spawned a litter of cloned psychopaths.
Gardening tips…gotta love em :D

I wonder why doing something like that would even occur to a person….

I have to comment on part of the link that @Pied_Pfeffer posted:

The section was Provocative “Self Defense”:

“These people kill in self-defense, but they aren’t entirely innocent themselves; they may have been “extremely provocative” toward their victim.

Susan Cummings

A shy, tomboyish daughter of a billionaire arms trader, Susan Cummings fell in love with an Argentine polo player, Roberto Villegas. But after two years together, they fought: She was stingy and began to refuse sex; he would get angry and verbally abusive. Finally she shot him to death in her kitchen in 1997. Originally charged with first-degree murder, she was ultimately convicted of voluntary manslaughter and sentenced to 60 days in jail.”

Obviously I don’t know all the details of what “stingy” meant, but I hardly think that not wanting to have sex with someone is grounds to say “It was partly your fault.” But that could be a whole other question.

Good question @Dutchess_III. It took a bit of reading to attempt to understand it. A “Provocative Self Defence” is when the accused claims that the victim provoked him/her into a state of passion that led to the crime.

In the specific case of Susan and Robert, she claimed that he was abusive at times during their two-year relationship, which was confirmed by eye-witnesses. She also claimed that he attacked her with a knife, which was debatable based upon evidence. The “provocative” part of Susan’s plea has to do with the fact that she was provoked into a state of passion that led to shooting Robert four times. There is no proof that he was harming her at the time he was shot; he was sitting in a chair at the kitchen table. Thus, the verdict resulted in voluntary manslaughter.

From what I can see, the answer to your question is, we elect them to public office.

People VARY.
Feel people would do things that the majority consider inappropriate. Some of the very minority would do things “very” inappropriate.
Should we do something when this happens? Yes, that’s what “laws” are made for;
When should we do something about it? That concerns people who make the laws.
How can we be proactive? Do things that make our group differs less and be more “same”. By religions, psychology, you name it.

@wsxwh111 I would take it one step further in that the people who make the laws do so in that these laws are reflective of the society and values that the majority desire to protect their rights to live a long life. When someone encroaches upon that right like this whack job did, then the punishment should ideally reflect the consensus of how to deal with these kind of situations. I can’t help but wonder what an eye for an eye form of justice would do as a deterrent where cruel and inhuman deaths are dealt with cruel and inhuman punishment.

A life sentence of giving sponge baths to the homeless for capital crimes just might make even the most deranged think twice about flying off the handle.

I would take it one step further in that the people who make the laws do so in that these laws are reflective of the society and values that the majority desire to protect their rights to live a long life.
I didn’t say this above but I absolutely agree with you.
As for this particular incident, I’m just not sure that I can think objectively when it comes to these cruel-kind-of-things, so I’m just gonna take a step back and let others share.

@wsxwh111 Feel people would do things that the majority consider inappropriate. The difficult part surfaces when these people that do these things the “majority consider inappropriate” hide behind a defense that they were provoked, having a bad day, their meds ran out, denied sex or the delivery guy brought the pizza cold with the wrong crust as to why they went berserk.

I have never looked upon capital punishment as a deterrent; except for the person being executed. I kinda figure they are not gonna kill someone else, but it will not stop others from similar offenses. That is where the psychosis comes in.

Civilized society? I doubt we are there yet, when these types of questions still get answered with suggestions like,

“I do get the urge to want to see these heinous criminals tied naked to a tree in Grizzly bear country and slather his crotch with peanut butter.”

Or,

“Bury the fuckers deep in a steaming pile of shit, then feed them the entrails of their young, grown from the hellish compost that spawned a litter of cloned psychopaths.”

Just saying.

Even a civilized society has to deal with sociopaths @Gremlin (Welcome to Fluther by the way) and for most, death is the most humane option.

@rojo Death is one thing. Being mauled by bears or forced to eat your children’s guts is something else, wouldn’t you say?

Yes

With far more freedoms comes the opportunity for greater evils, and far more uncontrolled mental illness’. At least reported illness. Beyond the free worlds media view may be far more illness than we acknowledge. How many atrocities occur that the free media does not over-report? There are not enough resources to stop the madness I have witnessed.
In nature, aberrations do not survive, but we have created a system that nurtures that which should not in the human species. We prune bad plants, we cull bad strains. These are the thoughts that are easily perverted to genocide. We are not wise enough to manage our own species, how can we be trusted to manage a planet?
It’s a good thing social questions allow me to ruminate and ponder larger questions than the OP.

@Gremlin welcome to fluther and FWIW, @ucme and myself tend to goof off as much as possible and will come up with comments like the ones you quoted for our own amusement and because the real answers are pretty obvious and boring.

Bad Cruiser! Bad UCME! Bad Rojo!

Hey! How come I got dumped in with those bad boys @Dutchess_III ????

It’s a compliment, @rojo!

Ah, that is right! I had forgotten that all women go for those bad boy types!

Ah, I see!

Why would society feel they should do anything when it is their actions that produce what they do not want or like? In a world that is just that, those things are a byproduct of just being, and should not be allowed to trouble anyone mentally any more than a nice sunset might be nice to look at but is no game changer.