Shooting going on in California?

What medication are the shooters on? Is it Zyprexa? The Colombien shooters were on anti-psychotics that can have violence as a side affect.

Somewhere, NRA members are happy.

The world has gone bat shit crazy.
I can’t get three people in my office to agree on where to order lunch, I can’t imagine talking two other people into helping me shoot people that are developmentally disabled.

oh look another one. meh.

Another day in the U.S., another crazed gunman and mass shooting.

@ragingloli I agree. That’s the reason that I canceled my tv cable. CNN making sure that everyone is scared.

@Love_my_doggie Oh like no one ever gets shot by guns in other countries. As you know there are a lot of crazy mother-f’ers with guns all over the world. France was an easy target as they have very strong gun laws.

We do not have a gun problem.
We do not have a gun problem
We do not have a gun problem.
We do not have a gun problem.
We do not have a gun problem.

In other news, MP’s over here just voted for “us” to begin airstrikes against Syria, lord of all fuck up’s.

@RedDeerGuy1 , My experience knowing people on Zyprexa is that they are way less likely to be violent. They more turn into a zombie, losing any affect at all.

As this is sure to spark more rants from the “we need more gun control laws” folks..
What is your take?

Potential explosive device? Yeah, gun control will just fix those problems.

@chyna , developmentally disabled? I don’t understand the reference.

These are troubled times. Yet, so many people don’t want to take security measures. God forbid we trample some civil rights to protect anybody. How dare we insult people by saying they are required to follow some new rules which might inconvenience them, or leave them feel sorted out.
Complacency can kill.

I find it really sad that Obama and Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid are using this already as a platform to talk about gun laws. Can’t even wait till they apprehend these guys…. Makes me sick..

@Here2_4 The facility the shooting took place in was for developmentally disabled people.

I was unaware. I only heard it was a govt. building.

OMG!!! They have suspects at gunpoint !!

“We have a pattern now of mass shootings in this country that has no parallel anywhere else in the world,”

Yeah… Obama stealing your guns.

@Apparently_Im_The_Grumpy_One Just curious but when do you think it would be a good time to talk about gun laws? When we’ve all been killed?

Well, last mass shooting was Friday so we are going to have to time this shit just right.

14 dead. We will probably know tonight who they are.

Well, something had to provoke my daily exclamation of, “WTF is wrong with Americans?!”

Suspects lived for longer than two minutes.. So they are white.

Sorry, I am just so numb now all I can do is make horrible jokes.

And what is going on with every mention of the weapon on CNN being referred to as a long-gun?

@johnpowell , they don’t know yet what type or caliber of gun, only that they did not use hand guns.

@dappled_leaves if you need something to prove that some Americans are well… here you go, your daily affirmation that America is home to some who should not handle sharp objects.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBvTlf5hSiw
This one is even better.

@Here2_4 :: Just odd that everyone on CNN would use the phrase all at once. I didn’t hear it on Friday during the PP thing. But every single person on CNN now uses it without fail. You would think there would be some other way of describing the weapon.

As far as I know the PP murder used a AK. Which you would think would be considered a long-gun.

@janbb Define “we”.

@johnpowell , in this case it is all the description they had. Long guns was all anyone could tell the police. At least one may have been an automatic rifle, but they still don’t even know that for sure.

One man and one woman suspects dead. Another person detained. They don’t know if he was involved.

@Judi – good. Saves the cost of a trial

Multiple law enforcement sources identify 1 suspect in Calif. mass shooting as Syed Farook; another suspect is believed to be Farook’s brother; identity of female suspect to be determined. Source- Nightly News with Lester Holt
yep, they were white~

I’m in the NorCal hills here about 400 miles away and the latest is 2 suspects, a male and female dressed in tactical gear and carrying assault rifles and hand guns are dead, the 3rd possible suspect is in custody but not clear if they were involved too.
So sad, something has to be done to stop this insanity, what I am not sure.

355 mass shootings in the US this year.

But if you’re on a terrorist watch list you should still have access to as many guns as you want as long as you don’t get on an airplane.~
Ugh

I said it before, and I will say it again, gun control is not up for discussion anymore because anyone can print handguns or assault rifles with unlimited bullets on a consumer grade 3D-printer for less than $500. It is only going to get cheaper and more easily available from here. You’re not going to ban 3D-printer, just like you’re not going to ban vehicles or drones that are used as weapons instead of their intended purpose.

If violence is to be addressed, it requires an understanding of the root causes of violence. Anyone who studied criminology will show you the underlying causes through statistical correlations with criminal behavior. Once you learned that information, you will understand why the U.S has more violence than a country like Japan. I will briefly name some of them abstractly: biology, psychology, religion, socioeconomic, geographical, drugs, alcohol, sex, gangs, and ethnic/racial diversity. Also, violence is much more correlative with men than women. Some are easier to address than others, but I don’t know if addressing part of the problem will diminish overall results.

Latest news reports are saying these were muslim attackers. Considering the behavior of the attacks, it highly plausible this is terrorism rather than “workplace violence”.

Speaking of muslim terrorists, out of curiosity, after the U.S accepts the 10,000 refugees from Syria and an act of terror were committed by terrorists who posed as these Syrian refugees, are the left-wingers willing to accept responsibility for the innocent lives that would be killed?

It is much easier to destroy than it is to create. You have to understand the high risk here.I mean, 3 out of the 8 muslim terrorists in the France massacre came in as Syrian refugees. In France, 8 killed 130 and wounded 350. That is 1:60. In the United States, 18 killed 3,000 in the 9/11 attacks. That is 167:1. Factor in those whom were wounded, I think 6,000, and the ration is much, much higher. Looking at the stats further, we see a very large population of radicalized muslims around the world. Are you willing to have someone else’s blood on your hands?

Similar argument can be made for other ethnicities in the U.S. The majority of the U.S criminals, statistically, are blacks or non-white hispanics. Do we really need more immigrants from these ethnicities considering that we’re plagued with violence from these specific groups? The probability says we should not accept them.

So this guy & his wife, the perps, worked there & was at the xmas party being held when a dispute occurred. Fucking crazy yet typical american reaction, “i’m gonna git mah gun!”
My thoughts turn to their six month baby daughter, left an orphan due to their sheer madness.

@Jackiavelli _ Do we really need more immigrants from these ethnicities considering that we’re plagued with violence from these specific groups?_

So you’re saying refugees and immigrants are the cause of radical violence?

@Jackiavelli “Do we really need more immigrants from these ethnicities”

The husband was born in the U.S.

@Yetanotheruser I’m saying that since the majority of the U.S criminals, statistically, are black and non-white hispanics, it would be foolish to let in immigrants of the same ethnicity that plague the U.S with crime. Since asians and whites in the U.S are the least correlative with crime in comparison to other ethnicities, it makes sense to focus on letting in immigrants of these ethnicity over others.

This isn’t to say there are no good blacks and hispanics, but by taking in these groups there is a statistically higher chance that the bad ones will be brought in with the good ones whereas with asians or europeans, the risk of the bad ones coming in with the good is far less likely.

The same line of reasoning applies to muslims. Based on Pew Research statistics, 42.5% of the 1.6 billion muslims in the world are radical muslims. That is 680,000,000 radical muslims. These statistics didn’t even cover all the countries. If you incorporate the other middle-eastern countries and project this trend, you’re looking at an estimate of around 800 million radicalized muslims. Radical here means they believe the law of the land should be strict sharia law and that suicide bombings, targeting of civilians, and honor killings are justified. The probability of violence and potential violence with this group is just too great to bear.

The husband was born in the U.S.

What is already done is done and needs to be addressed internally. The point of this argument is focused on minimizing the problems.

@Jackiavelli I could take any statistics and twist their meaning any way I want. I’m outta this thread!

I think the appropriate response to that reply is this San Bernardino Proves Once and For All: Political Correctness Kills

I have answered all your questions. Time to answer mine. In a hypothetical, but potentially real situation, are any of you left-wingers, here, willing to accept responsibility for the innocent lives that would be killed by terrorists who posed as Syrian refugees coming to the U.S?

@Jackiavelli I think America has more than enough of its own crazies to worry about, terrorist attacks are a drop in the bucket compared to what we are already witnessing amongst our own in the last decade or so. Columbine, Sandy Hook, Elliot Rogers, yesterdays shootings here in CA., movie theater shooters, the list is endless.
A local business owner who is of Muslim descent and very educated pointed out a valid point in a discussion I had with him recently. he said that terrorists are not going to starving out in the cold as refugees just to procure the chance of getting into the country, they are going to find and easier way, like the French attacks a few weeks ago, dozens of stolen passports from Syria.

The majority of these refugees are fleeing for their lives not looking to commit terrorist attacks. Sure, there may some risk but I think it is over inflated and we must be careful to not develop a lynch mob mentality towards an entire culture because of a few bad apples in the barrel.

Accepting refugees from a war-torn region
__(a situation, by the way, that was to a large extent fuelled and caused by western destabilisation of said region, and are any of you right wingers willing to accept responsibility for the innocent lives that were ended, and the wave of terrorism that was caused, because of and by that?)__
is the right and responsible thing to do, and worth the risk of a few terrorists slipping through.

furthermore, are any of you rightwingers willing to accept responsibility for the terrorist attacks against planned parenthood directly caused by right wing propaganda?

Nobody has determined yet whether it was terrorist in nature. The terrorist groups are recruiting all over the globe. American born does not mean it was not instigated from outside the country.
The couple, by the way, orphaned their six month old baby by committing this crime. Tell me again how families with children pose no threat.
The victims were not developmentally disabled persons. They were social workers who help disabled persons.
It was planned ahead, so no way am I believing the heated argument story. That sort of thing is easily staged. Those people were armed to the gills.

@Coloma I think America has more than enough of its own crazies to worry about, terrorist attacks are a drop in the bucket

I agree, but that doesn’t mean we should relax over refugees & immigration just because we have ongoing problems of violence in our own country.

terrorists are not going to starving out in the cold as refugees just to procure the chance of getting into the country

I don’t agree here. It is 39 degrees in Sweden. 40 in France. Also, he severely underestimates how much the goal triumphs over any other discomforts. Principles vs Practical.

The majority of these refugees are fleeing for their lives not looking to commit terrorist attacks.

Unconfirmed and according to high-positioned officials our various security agencies, they’re impossible to vet properly. Also, they’re coming from a region from which terrorist organizations are directly threatening us and promising to infiltrate us through the refugees. Furthermore, if you take a look at some of these videos of the refugees who are coming to Europe, the bulk of them are young, able-bodied men instead of the widows and orphans obama is talking about.

Sure, there may some risk but I think it is over inflated

I base this on numbers, probability, risk, and contribution.

@ragingloli Accepting refugees from a war-torn region is the right and responsible thing to do, and worth the risk of a few terrorists slipping through.

I don’t understand the logic behind this answer. If a few terrorists slip through, that means there will be a lot of innocent civilians killed and injured in the U.S at the expense of saving refugees. You save some, while others will die. This is a value answer based on a bias. Your displeasure with the U.S gives you a bias of putting more value on the lives of Syrian refugees than on American citizens because you hold the U.S responsible for the mess. I think this is highly irresponsible.

a situation, by the way, that was to a large extent fuelled and caused by western destabilisation of said region

I agree.

are any of you right wingers willing to accept responsibility for the innocent lives that were ended, and the wave of terrorism that was caused, because of and by that?

I will not because I was never in favor of going to war in the middle-east.

furthermore, are any of you rightwingers willing to accept responsibility for the terrorist attacks against planned parenthood directly caused by right wing propaganda?

I answered this^ question on another topic.. Look at the last 4 of my replies at the bottom of this question link

@Here2_4 American born does not mean it was not instigated from outside the country.

Officials – San Bernardino shooter apparently radicalized, in touch with terror subjects

@Jackiavelli I don’t pretend to have any, truly, viable answers.
I am also aware that I tend to project a bit of my own Pollyanna-ish traits, since I don’t think like a terrorist or psycho shooter I may be under the influence of a slightly tinted pair of rose colored glasses but I do feel strongly about not lumping all Muslims, or any group of people, into the same black pot of porridge.
I am a middle aged women, a hippie throwback, that lives a peaceful life on a rural property in the Sierra foot hills. The biggest threat I experience is finding a rattlesnake under my porch or fending off bands of roving Jehovahs Witnesses. lol

I have traveled internationally and I do not like the idea of living in fear.
I strive for discernment but I am just not a paranoid personality.
I am not going to cower in fear and think the worst of everyone, if that’s what it’s going to come down to we might as well just shoot ourselves as living in fear is not living.

I hear ya. It isn’t a dysfunctional fear. I guess I have realistic glasses on.

You know you democrats are going to lose this election because of this shooting, immigration policy and Syrian refugees? It doesn’t even matter who the republican candidate will be. Especially, now, with these muslim terrorists attacking civilians on U.S soil.

And if there is going to be another attack after the refugees are brought here, you won’t be winning the elections for a very long time. Maybe after this incident, policy will change and the Syrian refugees will be denied entry. The polls show that the majority of the U.S citizens do not want them here and it certainly does not have anything to do with Islamophobia. That is an unjust smear, character assassination tactic.

^^ Why do I have the feeling you’ve been here before?

I don’t know? Probably because you think all right-wingers are the same?

@Jackiavelli , thanks for the link. I hadn’t yet heard of any confirmation.
I agree that you seem like someone who is used to Fluther. A fresh start, I guess?

I know when I want an objective, nuanced discussion about issues on race and ethnicity I look to the guy who lost his shit over a black person joining his country club.

Haven’t you learned anything from the Trump campaign? Character assassinations increase popularity of those who were targeted while simultaneously creating levels of distrust towards those who attempt to defame. Have you figured out why, yet?

In several different topics, now, you provided no meaningful content to any of the conversations other than to defame me. The reason you’re unsuccessful in trying to label me a racist or a troll is because you don’t have the logic or evidence to support the notion. The very link you provide, which is my very first question, is doing a greater disservice to you than it does to me because it doesn’t actually support your claim that “I lost my shit, or that I am dissatisfied with his ethnicity”. Any reasonable person can see that I am more disgruntled over the diminishment of the culture that I value, and wish to preserve.

Naturally, the social justice warrior that you’re interprets everything as a racial or economic injustice even when it isn’t applicable because the goal is to win points with the community at large by showing them what a great and caring person you’re, even though you don’t believe half the things you say. Those are your flaws to overcome.

I’ll grant you, the only people you stand a chance of convincing are people who are dishonest, or have a very strong biased agenda where all logic and evidence would be in vain. However, upon scrutiny, any reasonable person would see through this. That is why members still converse with me and if not, then so be it.

I heard today on the news that the husband (shooter) was in contact with at least one person on the FBI terrorist watch list, so there’s the link…..

So much for vetting terrorists. The feds failed to screen these terrorists. They failed to vet the terrorists of the boston bombing – the tsarnaev brothers. Yet Obama thinks we can vet 10,000 Syrian refugees? They can’t even handle homegrown terrorism.

….and that’s the way it is.