Better modding in the past or too few mods working now?

You bitched and bitched about over moderation.

Now you want MORE?

I would say stricter modding in the past, not better, because we had a paid manager and the creators of the site were active.

I think many personal attacks are left now because there are so few of us left and no one is flagging. The people posting the attacks have their buddies giving them great answers. They’d rather police the site to their liking rather than attract new users.

I think the modding has sometimes been ridiculously heavy-handed, especially with respect to “off-topic” comments, and we’re now in a period when this is no longer the case (thankfully). But also, the people who make up the current Fluther community are just not engaging in personal attacks as often, probably because there are not as many controversial issues being discussed.

And yeah, I realize the irony of telling you that there are fewer personal attacks, seeing as you’ve lately been on the receiving end of several lately, but overall, that is the trend I have noticed.

So, to answer your question, if it’s between “better modding” and “fewer mods”, I’d choose “better modding”. But I don’t think that’s having as big an effect as “fewer jellies” and “fewer attacks”, which are both also in play.

I notice a lot more personal attacks and off-topic, but I am happy about the removal of spam.

I don’t know. I don’t think we’re ever going to be happy about moderation. Too much, too little, too heavy, too lax. It’s a hard job. I’m just glad we have some volunteers who are prepared to do the work AND I don’t think they’re being too heavy handed. While they may be stretched in terms of their numbers and capacity, I don’t think they’re policing the site too heavily and I appreciate that.

I would never ask for more.

I’m amazed anyone is willing to volunteer for the job considering how often the mods are vilified, criticized, and verbally abused. They are accused of “censoring” (somebody please look up the actual meaning of the word!), of being unfair, of playing favorites, and they still do it.
Spam is dealt with pretty quickly and efficiently, egregious attacks are dealt with, off-topic is dealt with.
So many people say they never flag because they don’t want to “police” the site. Fine. But if the mods don’t see something, they can’t do something.
I see people bitch about others getting upset about the modding, then promptly posting a whiny Meta question if they get modded.

This site stays remarkably civil and literate for the Internet, and that’s no mean feat. Even if it appears to be somewhat uneven at times, I have no bitch with the modding, or the team.

The few times I’ve posted questions about modding, they get modded off and I’m told it must be taken up privately through the “contact the mods.”

@jca Questions about modding are fine. We don’t allow questions about specific instances of modding.

I wasn’t here to see it, but there is powerful evidence that this site was a great deal more robust in the past. I think there were many more participants and the place was a lot busier. By comparison, the present situation might well be described as fluther’s “dormant” phase as the chat rooms remain perpetually vacant and the meta category goes days at a time without a single question. This being the case, I would guess that the mods simply have less to do in our quiescent state than in the days of turmoil generated from much heavier traffic.

If I were to make a comparison of modding activity today vs yesteryear as “things” here today, I would need to compare Fluther today to Fluther when I first joined 7 years ago and lets count the ways…

There is a lot less Jellies, a lot less questions, a lot less answers, a lot less humor, a lot less personal attacks which includes a lot less piling on dissenting Jellies and overall a lot less fun. So if I were to compare the modding quality of the Wild West days 7 years ago to the quality of the serene atmosphere of today I would have to say the modding is pretty much the same. The only difference I can see is there is simply a lot less fires to put out.

WTF

When did asking questions become equated with vilifying?

@ibstubro:I don’t equate the two unless it’s actually vilifying, and I can think of some examples that I can’t get away with posting here. But I have also seen a mod called “ignorant and lazy” because a user was so incensed that their Q was pulled.

For the record, I don’t find this question to fit any of the parameters I described.

I was a mod back in the “old days”, and I’m a mod now. The mod staff was bigger then, to keep up with the greater volume of activity. That didn’t result in “better” modding; it resulted in more modding.

The more mods you have, the more stuff will get modded. And that’s not because a smaller mod stuff is just too stretched to catch everything. To illustrate, say a stretch of highway has a cop car with a radar. Now, there’s a posted speed limit, but of course the cop will have his own ideas about how much slack to allow in enforcing that limit, right? OK, now imagine that you put 5 more cop cars along that same stretch. It’s pretty obvious that you’ve got a greater chance that one of those guys is going to think you’ve pushed it too far.

It makes a difference whether a post here has to clear review by two sets of eyes or five. A lot of the calls we have to make are pretty subjective and basically impossible to unambiguously legislate. Different mods may have somewhat different trigger points, and one isn’t necessarily right and another wrong. Even in more clear-cut matters, like grammar and punctuation, there would be a great deal of push-back if the mods took down every single fault. Hardly anybody would be happy with that situation, and we’d loose a whole bunch of members. So we make judgment calls there too on how much slack to cut.

When we’ve had a big mod staff, if one of the mods took down a post for a misplaced comma, another mod might have already seen that same problem, but decided that it wasn’t worth making a fuss over. But he also wouldn’t criticize the mod who took it down, because, yes, it was technically moddable.

And we inevitably cue off of each other in making these calls. If a particular mod is modding grammar right and left, then you’ll see a general drift in that direction from other mods as well, especially newer team members who are still trying to get a feel for where the limits are.

We have a relatively lean staff for now. I personally feel that we’re in the sweet spot of having adequate coverage, without creating the problems that come from over-review.

Sigh.

Are you flagging questions and/or responses that you feel do not meet the site’s standards? I do. It happened a lot more in the past than it does now. It’s a breath of fresh air not to have to flag as many posts due to the recent reduction of spam and less personal attracts.

You and I joined about the same time. Yes, there have been changes to the site since we became members. That’s life. Just like a job, we need to either adapt, provide solutions to existing problems, or leave. It’s your choice.

@thorninmud “Even in more clear-cut matters, like grammar and punctuation, there would be a great deal of push-back if the mods took down every single fault. Hardly anybody would be happy with that situation, and we’d loose a whole bunch of members.”

Indeed. ;)

woops!

As i’ve said umpteen times before til i’m sky blue pink in the face, the modding will only improve if i’m appointed head honcho. Alas, despite all the begging & tempting as it is, i’m afraid they can’t afford me, Fluther will have to soldier on & make the best of what they’ve got ;-}

As the newest member of the volunteer mod team, I’m really happy to be helping the site. I don’t mind doing this for free but I do think that if you have a problem then let us know. If you see something you don’t like then flag it. If you see or experience a personal attack then bring it up. Do it straight away before the thread runs off down the wrong track.

I’ve said this elsewhere but this site is everyone’s responsibility to maintain. Keep asking questions, keep replying, stick to the rules, flag when you can.

I’m happy we have them at all. Seems like a relatively thankless job.

It seems to me that it’s always going to be subjective though.
If there’s a mod whose going to try to satisfy everyone, they’re going to fail.

Thanks to the mods. Peace n love.

I have no complaints at all and I have had a couple answers modded in recent weeks. If I get modded I just accept it and move on. I have never disputed a moderation in all the years I have participated here.
If something gets overlooked, oh well and the only posts I ever flag are spam postings.

I have never, once, flagged another persons comments, ever.
I totally disagree that there are more “personal attacks” and that there is some conspiracy among members to GA and support inappropriate behavior. There are people here I like, some more than others, just like in real life, but I do not adhere to any kind of a “buddy system” or any sort of cliquish behavior. I am my own person and I act on behalf of my own sentiments.

Speaking for myself it takes a lot for me to call out some jackass comment or person and so, when I do, and it gets modded as a “personal attack” it doesn’t bother me in the least as I am confident it was, 9 out of 10 times, completely warranted. lol
I am a flexible and easy going type and it never crosses my mind to criticize or fault find anything here on Fluther. it is what it is, and what it is doesn’t need a lot of intervention short of extremely poor conduct.

I’ve questioned the moderators in the past. More on the basis of “Is this a path you really want to walk” of “Is this a precedent you really want to set?” than “I think you’re wrong”. At least Ive tried to phrase it that way.

There have been Mods with an obvious agenda.
That’s wrong IMO.
Put out the flame wars, keep a consistent peace, and stop spam.
If @mariah has spam corralled, even better!

@ibstubro Now you want MORE?
I would not say more, but more efficient and even.

@jonsblond I think many personal attacks are left now because there are so few of us left and no one is flagging. The people posting the attacks have their buddies giving them great answers.
If you ”high five” someone for an acid attack, I don’t think you’d be flagging them. When it goes on in a thread a mod is actively participating in, makes me wonder what they are doing really, or is it there time off.

@dappled_leaves But also, the people who make up the current Fluther community are just not engaging in personal attacks as often,…]
Wow, how in the world did I miss that memo, oh, it must have been when I was in the infirmary getting the shank removed from my back…..

@YARNLADY I notice a lot more personal attacks and off-topic,…]
Guess you must have missed that memo too. ~~

@canidmajor [… egregious attacks are dealt with,…]
Oh, so in order for the mods to squash attack it has to be egregious, those stealthy done or veiled get a green light or at least not have the breaks placed on them….interesting.

@Cruiser So if I were to compare the modding quality of the Wild West days 7 years ago to the quality of the serene atmosphere of today I would have to say the modding is pretty much the same.
I beg to differ, years back the mods modded comments and such more, and some were not even attacks. Back when I had mods jump my throat for comments that were not attacks but someone felt they were, and by today those comments would be as worm neck to a rock python.

@thorninmud And that’s not because a smaller mod stuff is just too stretched to catch everything.
When a mod is actively involved in a thread and does nothing of the attacks it is like a cop walking through the park and spies a horde of skin heads harassing the picnic of some black folk but because they are only turning over tables but not beating anyone the cop doesn’t nothing because there is no blood just some wasted hotdogs and potato salad.

@Pied_Pfeffer _ It’s a breath of fresh air not to have to flag as many posts due to the recent reduction of spam and less personal attracts._
Maybe, because there are less ”personal attracts” there are still personal attacks ~~

@Stinley If you see or experience a personal attack then bring it up. Do it straight away before the thread runs off down the wrong track.
Been there, done that, often ignore and lead to no avail.

@Hypocrisy_Central, if a personal attack is not really obvious or overt, it is not as likely to get flagged. That’s all I meant. Inferring some nefarious context for that remark is overthinking.

I have officially had it with the biased over moderation.

There are many many many unmoderated sites for you to visit, @ARE_you_kidding_me, enjoy!

If you are referring to the recent “poverty” thread you started, HC, and my participation in it, please be aware I am not a “real” mod, I am not permitted to remove anything except spam, see my profile for more details. If I am off base then ignore this comment.

It has been my understanding that mods weren’t to mod threads on which they participated anyway, so really, that’s not an issue.

@ARE_you_kidding_me explain “I have officially had it with the biased over moderation”?

Oh, I see that @Mariah might have been involved.

@Mariah CAN be polarizing. We all are, to a degree.

A break is always helpful, but I’d hate to see you leave @ARE_you_kidding_me

don’t listen to those who are pushing you away

@jonsblond, who is pushing him away? I didn’t see any posts like that.

I can be polarizing, I guess, but I am allowed to be – I am not a real mod, I would like you to consider me a regular member so that I can continue to express my sometimes polarizing views without having to censor myself. Thanks.

@Hypocrisy_Central Thanks for pointing out my typo. Moving past that, if you see a personal attack, just flag it. It does no good to whine about it to the collective.

Mariah is on my good list for the record. I only see a bright future for that jelly.

We are ALL polarizing…

Do we need Fluther to mail out participation trophies ,so everyone feels special?

I do not get all the animosity towards the mods, at all. I have never felt there was some bias or Nazi modding going on. It’s a big sandbox, I guess someone will always feel they are getting sand kicked in their face, even if it is just part of the sandbox experience. Into every sandbox a little dirt must fly. lol

I think suggesting someone go elsewhere is a push imo.

Ah, if you are referring to what I said, the intended inference was that most other sites like this have much less moderation, he might prefer this after exploring others. And really @jonsblond, in what universe are we allowed to visit only one site? Noting that one has the option to explore others is not a push away, it is simply noting an option.

@Mariah If you are referring to the recent “poverty” thread you started, HC, and my participation in it,..]
You are not the only mod I have seen in threads where attacks happened, and not all in my direction mind you, so it would not be completely in reference of you. :-)

@Pied_Pfeffer Moving past that, if you see a personal attack, just flag it.
Been there, done that, and done it again; for the most part, nearly every instance I can remember, it went unnoticed or ignored.

I’ve been thinking about this question. As a mod I’ve learned that there is a difference between a personal attack which would be modded and a reply which attacks someone’s stated view. So in simple terms saying that someone is stupid because they believe x is not allowed but saying x is a stupid thing to believe in is your opinion and is an acceptable response.

I think it’s difficult when you have such strong feelings about something, so much so that it feels integral to your whole being, and therefore it feels like you are being attacked when someone attacks that thing. I can understand how that feels but I would not support moderation of those kind of replies. I believe dealing with challenges to what you believe in is a big part of being a member of a site like this.

@Stinley Thank you for that explanation of the difference. One thing that Augustlan (former Mod and manager) used to do is occasionally send a PM with a reason why a post flagged by me won’t be removed. It was excellent communication and helped me learn. It may be a practice for the current mods to consider.

Bravo @Stinley for pointing out the most crucial of all distinctions regarding debate here or anywhere else.

Yeah, @Stinley nailed it. But I will add that although the OP does get a lot of that type of criticism, he also garners a lot of personal attacks, because people are tired of specific attitudes that he holds. His questions get personal quickly when they shouldn’t (and wouldn’t otherwise, if someone else had asked them), because there is history there.

[Mod says]

@Pied_Pfeffer We try to do that when it’s necessary – but to be honest, it’s not our highest priority. We want the site spam-free and any problems in threads cleared up first. Responding to feedback messages or PMs is next on the list, and there are issues we need to talk about on most days. Responding to flags we don’t act on gets lost in all this, you’re right.

If you’re ever worried – or just especially curious – please feel free to send any of us a PM. It helps the lagoon if we get the chance to explain our reasoning.

Thanks @longgone. It’s been years since running across any action by the moderators that I felt worthy of questioning.

@Pied_Pfeffer Years, huh? That’s before I was mod, then…coincidence?! ~

I received a note from a moderator, recently, that explained why no action had been taken on my report. I had no idea what she was talking about because I’d tried to tighten up the General category by reporting a few glaring examples.
I’m not (usually) keeping track of things I report. I’d appreciate it if @Mariah could write a “cc” for the members that report spam that is taken down.
Auto “Thank you for UN-spamming!”