General Question

bodyhead's avatar

What is the death toll in the bible (God vs Satan)?

Asked by bodyhead (5457 points ) October 14th, 2008

I’m asking this because I truly do not know.

I have read that it is:
God – 2,270,365
Satan – 10

That doesn’t sound accurate to me. I’ve never taken a tally as I’ve read through the bible but 10 seems like an awfully low number for Satan.

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30 Answers

bodyhead's avatar

*Just so you know, these numbers were pulled from a random internet message board that I ‘stumbled’. There were no sources cited. I refuse to believe random Internet blurbs so I was hoping someone here could help me find the actual numbers.

Malakai's avatar

Death by what? ...smiting?

Definitely disappointed in Satan.

bodyhead's avatar

Yes, death by smiting.

I’m basing this on either party through direct or indirect action causing someone’s death. In either case, if they tell someone to kill someone else it also counts.

skabeep's avatar

If god killed people because of their sin, and the devil influenced them to sin… I bet Satan is responsible for more than just 10 but probably all of them

bodyhead's avatar

@skabeep, That’s too far removed for this question. I don’t care why God killed them. I’m just asking for the amount that was killed in either case.

With your circular reasoning, I could say that God created Satan so really God is responsible for 100% of the deaths.

El_Cadejo's avatar

@skabeep soooooooooooo lemme get this straight, Satan makes people sin, so God in turn kills them…...and its satans fault????? the fuck?

Harp's avatar

Too hard to pin down numbers. In God’s column, you’d have the entire ante-deluvian population, minus Noah’s crew (no way to calculate that) Sodom and Gomorrah (no way to calculate that), the first-born of Egypt (no way to calculate that). The armies of Isreal carried out what amounted to an ethnic cleansing of the promised land, and for that we do have lots of numbers; but do we count killings by people acting under God’s direction? If so, then I guess we’d have a similarly indeterminate number of killings to Satan’s credit, including the babies killed by Harod (no number).

robmandu's avatar

The wages of sin is death. I think I read that somewhere.

So, man’s own sin is the cause of death and separation from God. Sin is simply man choosing not to obey God’s will.

God gave man free will so that man would choose God. Without choice, man would just be a robot, little better than a rock.

Satan is not responsible for sin. Man is responsible for his own choices. Satan is already screwed so he’s out to take down as many more as possible.

Now, you could say that God created a system by which man could end up choosing something God created, and then is punished for it. Well, them’s the rules.

By that reckoning, one could say God has all the points. And at best, Satan is credited with some assists. But really, it’s each man’s choice… and so we’re the only ones with a score.

BTW, physical death is only part of the equation. After all, none of us are getting out of this alive. Spiritual death (i.e. permanent separation from God) is of higher import.

Bri_L's avatar

does that include people who kill in the name of god? because there are a lot of nut jobs out there who feel they have the right to do a whole bunch of stuff “in the name of god” include kill

bodyhead's avatar

Yea Bri, but I meant specifically in the bible. Harp is the one who seems to have the closest answer to what I’m looking for but rob raises some good points.

except for I like robots and I think they are way better then rocks

Lightlyseared's avatar

I didn’t realise they were keeping score.

bodyhead's avatar

If God is real, omnipotent and omnipresent then he most definitely keeping score in not only this but in all things.

Mtl_zack's avatar

this song might be relevant.

Lightlyseared's avatar

Yes but if God is real, omnipotent and omnipresent then Satan is part of God’s grand, ineffable scheme and therefore Satans’ deaths are also the responsiblity of God, as are all other death. Therefore if God is responsible for everybodys’s death why would he bother to keep score? There is no score to keep!

Harp's avatar

It just occurred to me that the 10 kills attributed to Satan (Job’s children) were actually pre-approved by God. It’s only because God gave the green light to the hit job that Satan was able to move against them.

bodyhead's avatar

Lightly, that’s circular reasoning as I mentioned above when I said the exact same thing. That’s not the answer to the question that I’m asking.

Lets put a different way. If God is real then he keeps a tally of everything that has happened and that might happen. He remembers. He knows. If you are keeping a tally of when certain things happen, then you are essentially keeping score (in a roundabout way).

If he is real, then he keeps score in all things. If he does not, he is not God. Not only does it matter, the act of knowing everything is a big part of what makes him God.

That being said, none of this has anything to do with the question I asked.

@Harp, Nice, I didn’t even think of that. Maybe those can still be Satan’s kills because he actually pulled off the hit.

So, no named person in the bible are killed by the order of Satan but named people all through the bible are killed by the order of God. That can’t possibly be right can it?

Harp's avatar

In fairness, I think that the culture for whom these writings were intended took it as axiomatic that life was God’s property to dispense and revoke at his pleasure. They would have understood that killing by humans was “wrong” in that it encroached on God’s prerogative. It never would have occurred to them to think of these “smitings” as murder, because they saw life as being, essentially, on loan from God.

bodyhead's avatar

Wow fantastic point harp. That’s a nice way to say what my father always use to tell me. “I brought you in to this world. I can take you out of it.”

fireside's avatar

lol, bodyhead, the god you describe above sounds like Santa with a list of who’s naughty and whose nice.
great comments in this thread!

Randy's avatar

Wait wait wait. Satan can’t do anything God doesn’t let him do. God loves all his children, even the sinners therefore, I don’t think that God would allow Satan to just kill someone. Now, he lets Satan do some terrible things to test us, but not kill us. This is just based on my beliefs.

Harp's avatar

Can any of us do anything God doesn’t let us do?

El_Cadejo's avatar

I have a question. If Satan cant do anything that God doesnt allow him to do to do, why is Satan such a threat?

fireside's avatar

The traditional view is that God allows Satan to play the role of Tempter and Temptation is what drives people to sin.

Randy's avatar

@Hapr- In my beliefs, yes and no. It all goes to God giving us free will. He allows us to choose and so as we please, but yet he knows what we’re going to do. All that is really confusing to me. I don’t know exactly how it works.

@uber- Basically, God wants us to chose to love him. He could make us all mindless zombies that do nothing but serve and worship him all the time, but that makes for a fake and almost pointless love. So God gave us the ability that is free will so that we can decide what we want. That way, the ones that do chose to love and worship him are sincere. Satan will eventually get cast into the lake of fire but while we are here on Earth, Satan will have the ability to tempt us.

Of course all this is just in my opinion…

Gloomshrub's avatar

This defiantly seems true. Although I have not tallied I have read the bible and this seems about right. Also worth nothing that these are only ones where a specific number is given so no floods and plagues e.t.c. It is 33,000,000 estimated total.

@Randy – When God created the universe he created Adam and Eve in such a way (He, being omniscient, was conscious of the turn out) that 6000 years later I would be born and, due to my DNA and upbringing would chose not to believe in God. I reckon that if there is a heaven, I am going to it but if I was a mass murderer, God chose me to be a mass murderer and there is nothing I can do about it. Note that pedophilia and homosexuality are not choices people make but the latter will get you into hell.

Relating to this, if I were born in some village in a muslim country or indeed one of the rare 100% cut of civilizations you still get nowadays, how much choice would I have of loving God?

How much free will does a holocaust victim have? Does God love Hitler?

Also why would an omniscient God test us by murdering our families. How much free will does a still-born baby have?

@skabeep – Retarded. God created satan, right? With your logic God wants us to sin.

manofgod's avatar

The reason god has so many kills vs the the devil is.The stronger and more intelligent fighter will always win.In the bible all the people that God killed were following what satan wanted them to do. And if you read the last part of the bible, you see the the winner of the war ( God vs the devil ) is the God of Abraham,Isaac and jacob the one true god

fundevogel's avatar

@manofgod “The reason god has so many kills vs the the devil is.The stronger and more intelligent fighter will always win.”

I didn’t know god and the devil were in a killing competition. Somehow I have trouble seeing that as something to be proud of winning.

“In the bible all the people that God killed were following what satan wanted them to do.”

Even children and babies?

“And if you read the last part of the bible, you see the the winner of the war ( God vs the devil ) is the God of Abraham,Isaac and jacob the one true god”

Photos or it didn’t happen.

Anyway might =/= right. I ally myself with people, causes and principles which I find admirable. I don’t pick sides to get on the winning side, to do so is to make a winning a virtue in place of ideological principle.

It’s not if you win or lose, it’s how you play the game.

Thammuz's avatar

@manofgod In the bible all the people that God killed were following what satan wanted them to do.

You’ve got to be fucking kidding me.

Are you serious? Are you really saying that the fucking babies that were drowned in the flood were all little satanists in training? They weren’t even old enough to form coherent thoughts and somehow they already decided that the first one they managed to form was gonna be “fuck god”.

That makes complete sense, in the sense that it really doesn’t and that your spine is creaking awefully loud for all the bending over backwards you had to do to actually believe that.

And if you read the last part of the bible, you see the the winner of the war

Ok, that’s retarded even from a biblcal perspective. First and foremost it’s bloody obvious god is going to win if he really is omnipotent, which raises all sorts of doubts about why he doesn’t blink satan out of existence, thus preventing him from pushing people to do bad things that, in turn, apparently force god to pulverize them. But most of all nobody’s saw that yet. Revelations is a prophecy so nobody will see the winner of the war is god, because that has not happend yet. They’ll see what the bible says will happen, and if that’s as accurate as its supposedly infalliable ideas on how to cure leprosy or how to be immune to poison, i’d say it’s probably so wrong that god’s going to exist only for long enough to lose to satan and then return to nothing with him.

On a side note: Ever noticed how smitings seem to have stopped around the time where we start to have actual historical data on what was happening around the world? guess god just wants to keep a low profile, who cares if his supposedly beloved children suffer everywhere, even moreso in heavily christian nations like many south american and slavic countries!

And by the way, if we’re to take the bible as true then i’ll side with satan. I’m not fond of keeping people in ignorance for the sake of their bliss, nor am i fond of punishing people for disagreeing with me. And i mean that, so by bible logic i should be dead any minute now. When am i going to be smited(sp?) to prove your point? I’m only asking so i can set up a webcam and become incredibly famous posthumously for proving that god not only exists but he also is a prick who can’t take dissent and challanges to his authority.

fundevogel's avatar

@Thammuz “When am i going to be smited(sp?)”

It’s ‘smote’. It think it’s a holdover of archaic English tenses, like ‘shat’ and ‘spake’. Though unlike the other two there aren’t any modern alternatives. That or it’s just another exception in the mess that is the English language.

Nullo's avatar

Satan’s MO is essentially to drag as many people down with him as he can. This method is passive (that is, you are damned unless you take action), and was largely accomplished early in Genesis.

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