How do you discipline your children? Do you think that 'beating' them is right?

Most child development experts agree that physical punishment is ineffective, and only serves to alleviate the anger of the adult, rather than actually teach a lesson. We have a 2 year old and a newborn, and we will not be using any form of physical punishment. With our two year old, we have started time outs, and are using the 1–2-3 Magic system, which seems to work really well and was recommended to us by our pediatrician.

i wouldn’t beat. just send to room. remove rewards. things of that nature. maybe a smack on the hand.

Hitting is not the answer. I have swatted my children, though I said I never would, once to get immediate notice to stop an extremely dangerous situation (child running out into the street) and once or twice because I lost control of my temper/frustation level. It would never be my reasoned response though. Time outs when they were younger, grounding or being sent to their rooms now that they are older.

Hitting doesn’t teach anything positive. Neither does yelling.

Is spanking considered beating? I’ve heard spanking is ok as long as you don’t let your anger control it. If you spank just because you’re angry then you might as well be beating them. The more kids fear their parents, the better they’ll behave. I don’t know if that’s true or not it just sounds good..

Hitting children teaches that physical violence is acceptable.

@queenszboulevard, The more kids fear their parents, the better they behave at home, and the more likely they are little hellions when they are with other people.

I’ve known ppl that got a good ol’ ‘beating’ from their parents when they were younger. They turned out perfectly fine. They love their parents, and is a great kid. I believe it just depends on HOW the parents ‘beat’ them. Usually asians ‘beat’ their child tho. And most of them say that they will do that to their child as well.

It is okay for kids to be beastly at home, because home should be the place where you can lose your temper, be mean, and let your guard down. It’s true for adults, and it’s true for kids. They need to learn how to verbalize what’s going on and hitting NEVER is conducive to teaching communication.

Kids act up when they are tired, hungry, frustrated.

How (spank!) many (spank!) times (spank!) do I (spank!) have to (spank!) tell you (spank!) hitting (spank!) isn’t (spank!) allowed?!?

Doesn’t make much sense, does it?

You should never have to spank a kid more than once because if it didn’t hurt their feelings or scare them the first time then it didn’t work and there is no point doing it again. I do a thing with my eyebrows and eyes and by nieces and nephew know they are about to be in trouble and I have never laid a hand on them or threatened them so it keeps them on their toes. Sometimes I want to choke out my nephew because of how rude he is but I haven’t done it yet.

Why in the world would you give birth to something you would want to hit?

Would you hit a dog or a cat? I could never understand people that wouldn’t hit a pet but think it’s okay to spank a child.

Fear isn’t good. Kids need to know that they live in an ordered, rule-bound world. That can be achieved by setting rules, firmly applying the rules and redirecting-disallowing unacceptable behaviors. There is never a need for physical abuse to teach a mental lesson.

The worst was at a pizza parlor. Single mom with a 3 year old and an infant in a seat, sitting with another mom with a baby. The 3 year old was ignored, had to sit in his seat, and the moms kept talking. So the kid started climbing. The mom kept jerking him down in his seat. He whined, she kept telling him to shut up, she was talking. Finally after 20 minutes, he got down, headed for the door, and she got up, jerked him upwards in the air by one arm, hauled off and hit his fanny while he was hanging in the air, and said “You litter f—er, you’re just like your f-ing father. Now sit down and shut up.”

Oh, that breaks my heart : (

@AlfredPrufrock – that’s terrible.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with one swat on the butt to get the kid’s attention. But if you do it often enough that it’s not a surprise when you do do it, that’s not good.

Also, if that one swat is delivered while you’re holding the kid in the air by the arm, that’s not good, either. That’s goddamn disgusting. >:-[

Someone should have called the cops on that crazy bitch. If she does that in public imagine what she does behind closed doors. I was spanked a lot as a kid and it never worked. They never grounded me which would have worked much better. I was never scared of them though. If I was I probably would have cared more.

Hitting in any form is poor form

curiouscat – I am one of those people who got a good ol’ ‘beating’ from my parents, and I would tell people for years that it never did me any harm. I was kidding myself, it did, and if you think that someone who had that done to them too is perfectly fine, I think that in time you and they will find that they are mistaken.

Parenting, by its very nature, is about teaching your children how to responsibly navigate their world. Behaviors have consequences, rights have responsibilities. Melt-downs and loss of control is acceptable if you can articulate what’s going on so mom can help you fix it. Tired is addressed with a nap or quiet play, hungry is fixed with a snack, being confined is addressed by a safe place to move around in. It’s easier for an adult to fold up the tent and go home, than it is for a child to behave in an adult setting. For some reason, setting expectations beforehand helps once they turn about 5.

As for the pizza parlor mom, I suggested that he might do better if he could move around, and offered to watch him so she could talk. She decided to go home with her friend, which is much easier with two little ones. We left all kinds of places. It was just easier.

I never spanked or hit my daughter – for her social isolation (sending her to her room) was always sufficient punishment or sometimes removing a favorite toy for a set time period would do the trick.

My son is another story. Time out in his room or in the corner does nothing for him. Removing toys, video game consoles, computers, bicycles, etc. does nothing for him. Physical punishment did nothing to him except spur a thirst for retaliation. So far the only thing that has worked is that when he acts up in the car (and when we are 2 miles or less from home) he has to get out and walk home. (he’s 14 by the way so two miles won’t hurt him) He’s a tough nut to crack.

I don’t like to see physical aggression used as a punishment and I said I would never do it to my kids (it was done to me) When all else failed we tried it on our son, but since it didn’t work any better than other methods, we stopped it immediately.

I’m afraid that if i say this, everyone will bite my head off and chew it (so please don’t hate me for this, just mentioning it) but.. haha… back to my friend’s disciplining and obedience—> They were never afraid of their parents, but only of anything that would cause them to be ‘beat’, and they weren’t even ‘beat’ on a lot, just ‘enough’ (not saying that i’m for this, or against it, once again, just mentioning something that i know) It wasn’t as if they felt uncomfortable at home at all, or fear… Some cultures actually believe that beating their kid is a good way for discipline, and it works for them too. Of course everyone has their own beliefs and ways of discipline though.

It’s definetly nothing like the story AlfredaPrufrock mentioned about the pizza parlor mother at all.

haha sorry, i like to debate sometimes and find arguments.. especially when i’m bored

no biting off heads from me lol. Getting into a good debate is one of the great things about fluther. ;)

“Beating” your child should never be an option or even a thought in your head. You can get through to a child with a stern voice and simple directions. My question to you is have you ever delt with a child before? Because clearly, if you had any common sense you would know that a “beating” would cause nothing but insecurities and shame. If you honestly think you should beat your child, you should consider never reproducing.

I used to work at a grocery store, and I wish I had a dollar for every parent who didn’t hit their kids. The kid could be throwing a tantrum on the floor, licking the germy carts, yelling, screaming, and putting their hands in my cash drawer (!) and the parent, if they’re doing anything AT ALL, is saying things like “Please, Johnny, don’t do that, okay, please?”

No. Johnny needs a spankin’. Not a beating, not abuse, but he needs something more than “Please stop that, please, little honey bunny.” He needs to know, with one look from the parent, that this will not end well if he continues. He needs to respect authority. And if done correctly, you only need to pull out the Spank once or twice in his life, before the message is delivered loud and clear. When did “Wait until we get home?” lose its power?

In my childhood, spanking was invoked, albeit rarely – just enough to teach you that you don’t act up like that. You be good. Or else.

I think beating is fine if the child is rebellious. But with control of course.

Beating children does not work. Bad parenting usually leads to the point where parents consider beating their children as the only solution. Beating children can cause them trauma such that they will abuse their own children. Would you rather perpetuate a chain of violence, or would you rather admit your bad parenting in the past and ask for help in remedying the situation non violently?

My parents were both beaten as children. They had awful childhoods. They chose not to beat their kids and to give their kids a spectacular childhood, and we’ve turned out wonderfully.

Beating only works if you think physical torture works. Hint, both don’t work, they only breed animosity and hatred.

I’m not going to say that I’ve never spanked either of my children. I will say that the amount of times can be counted on 1 hand and only in an extremely dangerous situation, to get immediate attention.

I was spanked, growing up. I was raised by parents that were spanked, to the point of being abusive. My parents used it to relieve their anger, and I realized that at a young age. The last time I was spanked, the parent that administered that spanking, was so angry about the transgression (later they realized that I was telling the truth and was spanked for no reason, at all.) that after having me remove my pants (always on a bare bottom), they grabbed the leather woven belt and started repeatedly hitting me with it – despite my shrieks of pain. After the 5th lash, the parent stopped and realized why I was yelling (the parent told me over and over the louder I screamed the longer it would last) they were hitting me with the belt buckle and the middle piece was digging into my skin. I was kept at home from school, the next day, because I couldn’t sit comfortably and lucky for me, it was on a Friday, so I had a few days to recover. I was 9. I will never forget that day, or the other times. My sister won’t either, because after she fessed up that it was her fault, along with several other times that I was spanked, I swore I’d never be that mean to my children.

We used the same system that Shilolo linked in his answer at the top of the page. We also use a few other things, and really try to redirect our son, before he gets into trouble. My daughter is 14, we have the typical methods for a teen – but she’s pretty mellow, so we haven’t hit the dreaded teen years, yet.

My son is extremely head strong and we went through a very difficult time with him, but what we failed to realize, it wasn’t him looking for trouble, it was stress. It was after I was diagnosed with cancer and we really thought he wasn’t picking up on what was going on – after all, he was only 3 1/2. He was hitting me, trying to bite me – a lot- and not the “normal” toddler/preschooler bite – this was aggressive. He yelled at me, even though I’m not a yeller. It truly was like he hated me. We broke down and went to the pediatrician. She was wonderful! Things are a complete 180, now – the loving son is there all the time. He’s my little buddy and my shadow!

We look for signs, in both kids: tired, hungry, feeling sick, or the dreaded boredom. Sure, sometimes, kids will be kids and it is just them testing the boundaries. We handle it by a set of rules, that are clear and are consistent. It makes things a lot easier!

No, “beating” you kids, in my eyes, really isn’t okay. I’m not perfect, I’ve made mistakes, but I think you should always look for the constructive way to discipline, not destructive.

If you hit your kid are you cool with the babysitter/teacher doing the same to your child?

We have never hit our kids (I consider spanking to be hitting). Instead, we used time-outs together with amateur attempts to develop intrinsic motivation in our kids. I think we’ve had pretty good success (B) so far, but our son is more difficult than our daughter. I’m not sure our daughter ever needed a timeout in our opinion, but our son ended up there a lot.

The approach, as described in the first article below, suggests that we treat our children as people. We respect them, and work out solutions to our problems with them in a calm conversation (which obviously can’t be done in emergency situations). With respect, they learn responsibility, and start making choices we approve of on their own.

Intrinsic motivation is at the heart of this alternative approach (to spanking) to working with both kids and adults. Alfie Kohn, the originator of the concept that it (intrinsic) is a far better way for anyone to learn than extrinsic (an approach that the designers of this site, by accident or design, understand). His book, “Punished by Rewards” describes his critique of the praise ideology (one of the successors to spanking). The link below is to an article that sums it up pretty well. The 2nd link in an article he wrote for The Nation simply trashing the TV show “Supernanny.”

http://www.alfiekohn.org/parenting/gj.htm
http://www.alfiekohn.org/parenting/supernanny.htm

About spanking, often spanking occurs because an adult or parent is angry about something else and already at the edge and the child does something that pushes them over.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/080228220451.htm
http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/662/context/archive
http://www.stophitting.com/disathome/factsAndFiction.php

@erincollins,
yeah, that was pretty harsh. Like I said, i never said which side i was on.
Your beliefs are your own beliefs. Growing up in a different environment and place.

“My question to you is have you ever delt with a child before? Because clearly, if you had any common sense you would know that a “beating” would cause nothing but insecurities and shame. If you honestly think you should beat your child, you should consider never reproducing.”

Everyone else stated politely what they thought, and how they discipline their children, and then you come and tell me that i have no freaking common sense, and consider never to reproduce? did i say i dealt with children? or did i even say that i will beat my children? NO! i didn’t even say i would have children. >_>

sorry if i sound like a Biatch, but that really pissed me off and ruined my day.

I found the 1–2-3 Magic system very helpfulwith my son… I wish I had heard about it before he was 6!

Even now that he’s 17, he knows that I mean what I say; if he tries to argue or negotiate, I simply raise my eyebrows and he knows he’s wasting his breath.

It sounds like people are equating any hitting/spanking with a severe beating. There is a difference. People who beat their children should be punished by law. People who spank/swat their children should not.

@curiouscat I’m sure you don’t mean offense by this but I’m somewhat irked by your generalisation of Asian people:
“Usually asians ‘beat’ their child tho. And most of them say that they will do that to their child as well.”
The entire Asian continent comprises many different regions/states with vastly different attitudes towards child punishment. In any case it’s generally inaccurate to make a blanket statement about the behavior of an entire continent of people.

I’ve endured a few whuppin’s, indeed. I remember that they made me think twice about doing certain bad things, afterward.

“Beatings” and angry striking are where the line is crossed.

Spanking may achieve the shortterm goal of the parents—an immediate change in behavior, but it totally destroys the long term goal: bringing up children to evaluate data and make decisions and choose to do things because they want to. Children who are punished end up living in fear the rest of their lives. What’s worse, is it is a fear they are completely unaware of. We all thing we’re ok.

I can testify about the subtle, but deep and powerful damage that spanking can do. People who spank are perpetuating what appears to be an innocent way of thinking, which turns out to be a hidden cancer. It is not just spanking that perpetuates this cancer that ends up with low self-esteem and other ills (some of which most people would think are positive, like an incredible drive for wealth), but anything that perpetuates the idea that punishment is an appropriate way to change behavior. As our justice system demonstrates daily, you couldn’t design a worse system. Or, if you like bad behavior, a better system.

I have to say that even though I know spanking doesn’t work, I didn’t realize that it is more than spanking that is the problem. It is the culture that punishment of any kind is effective. I’ve been treating my kids that way, and I have resolved to change, as a result of this question.

@curiouscat I’m sorry that i “ruined you day”. I work with children everyday and I read your question and just thought of all the people who really do “beat” their kids and i started to get really upset. I now realize that you do not beat your children (if you even have any), but you have to understand that when most people hear the word beating and children in the same sentence you probably won’t get a good reaction. Anyways sorry.

I think sombody needs a spanking…

@shilolo: Haha, I never heard it called 1–2-3 Magic, but that was exactly what my parents used on me!

@girlofscience. Uh oh. Do we need to reconsider? ;-)

@shilolo: I’m a disciplined grad student; seemed to work pretty well. ;)

Kids with no punishment for wrong behavior don’t always learn either.

At the store where I worked, we had this little display of glass votive candle holders. One day there was a child picking them up and dropping each one, where they each crashed on the tile floor and broke. As a store employee, I went over to the child to ask him to stop, not only because he was breaking the merchandise, but because he could hurt himself on the shards of broken glass.

Just then, a parent appeared (there hadn’t been one around) and chastised me for speaking rudely to the child (that is, telling him to stop). “He is the firstborn,” she said to me, as if that would make me back off. “He can do whatever he wants.” The kid went back to breaking glass. (And no, we did not have a “you break it, you bought it” policy.)

For the parents and others who think that punishment is a bad idea, what would you do in this situation? I mean this in all sincerity. Your kid is breaking stuff and you won’t punish him. Do you say something like, “Please stop, and I will take you out for an ice cream,” or something like that? My guess is that they will do bad things just for the ice cream, in that case. Rewards do not always work as intended.

Having worked in retail, I always wondered where all the “entitlement” customers come from – the ones who think that they need to be worshipped, who want free everything and for us to kiss their butt on the way out. Now it is clear to me – they were never punished for anything.

@erincolins, Oh it’s okay. If i was aroused by a question.. I would most likely answer that way as well. I understand how terrible it is when parents severely injure their children, I was at a presentation today about how social workers work, and what they do. The ones that work with children really have it hard. Seeing children that get injured until they’re almost dead, dealing with parents that won’t even pull themselves together for their own child. :(
I definetly won’t beat my child for discipline if or when i get any. Punishments, though, is a for sure. My using the word “beat” in my sentence; i just realized was a bit too strong, and left people with a terrible image in their head.

@Laureth: In the situation you described, I would remove my child from that situation immediately. Even if that required me to physically pick her up and walk her away. I would then very sternly tell her that her behavior was unacceptable, and later I would discuss it in more detail – explaining why it was unacceptable, and that it should never be repeated. They would also be required to ‘pay’ for the broken merchandise. That is, I would have paid for it, and they would either pay me back through allowance, or ‘work it off’ doing chores around the house.

Augustian – I think that might work for older kids who have grown a sense of right/wrong or who understand reason, but some kids don’t get that for quite a while.

@lareth. If they aren’t old enough to distinguish “right from wrong”, how do you think they are going to process a physical punishment? Cause and effect are difficult things to master, and physical punishment is not the solution.

Simple: doing the “wrong” thing leads to unpleasantness. It’s just like in the real world, where if we do wrong (evade taxes, murder, etc.), then we are punished. They might not understand higher reasoning skills (I shouldn’t break things because then I need to work hard to pay it off), but they do understand things at a lower level (ow! That hurt! When I break things, I experience pain!) that don’t require higher thought.

The adult world punishes and rewards. If we teach children only through rewards, are we not letting them grow up unprepared for a world where things sometimes hurt?

The “adult world punishes and rewards”. Hah. Every time you make a mistake, do you get physically punished? No? I didn’t think so. Punishment can be as simple as a time out, taking away a toy, no TV, early bedtime, whatever. It doesn’t have to be a physical beating, and really shouldn’t be.

I would never suggest beating a child. As I said earlier, child beaters need to be prosecuted.

Children who are spanked are also generally not spanked for every small infraction. I am presuming that it would have to be something “big and bad” for such a punishment to occur. This is similar to adult life where we are not physically punished for jaywalking, but we are for big things like murder.

If I hit my wife to “teach her a lesson”, I would be a pariah, and subject to prosecution for domestic violence or assault. Obviously, that is not ok. But, somehow it is ok to hit my defenseless son or daughter for the same reason, to “teach a lesson”? We do not accept corporal punishment in schools, so why is it ok at home?

In the end, I follow the recommendations of the American Academy of Pediatrics, that is, no physical punishment.

Your wife, as well as older children, have the light of reason.

Perhaps you and I will have to agree to disagree.

Perhaps, but if you had a child in day care or pre-school and an adult hit them, would that work for you? I doubt it.

In closing, I will quote the AAP “spanking teaches the child that causing others pain is justified to control them—even with those they love.”

If I had a daycare worker hit my child, it would be like a vigilante group punishing a criminal instead of the official justice system doing so. It is a power that should be rarely invoked by the parent or guardian (and only for the most important/worst things), not just by anyone at any time.

Laureth, I’m interested to know if you have any children yourself. I’m not asking you this to then tell you that you have no idea what you’re talking about, I am genuinely interested to know

I don’t have kids. The only direct experience I have with them is babysitting when I was a teenager (long ago), the children of friends and inlaws, and kids that would appear where I work. Also, I was once a child. :)

As an aside, there was one kid that I usewd to babysit that was just a holy terror. If anyone, he could’ve used a spanking. Later, I learned that he was in prison for a long time for having raped underage girls. I know that the plural of “anecdote” is not “data,” but I often wonder if more strict discipline when he was still in the formative stages would have prevented the rapes.

@laureth. Your anecdote is interesting. How do you know that, behind closed doors, he wasn’t spanked or beaten mercilessly? One of the rationales behind the AAP’s opposition to spanking is that studies have shown that “children who continue to be spanked are more likely to be depressed, use alcohol, have more anger, hit their own children, approve of and hit their spouses, and engage in crime and violence as adults.” In fact, it is a well-worn truism that people who come from abusive-dysfunctional homes are more likely to end up in abusive relationships and leading abusive-dysfunctional lives.

@laureth There are many theories about the motivations for rape and lack of discipline at young age isn’t considered a risk factor by the current academic consensus (nor do I think it will ever be). Correlation doesn’t imply causation.

There’s so many ways to induce enforce good behaviours. Even if you must use negative reinforcement there’s many, many non-physical means of doing so.

I think that parents should be spanked based on the above discussion. You folks are the reason for so many pathetic and directionless young people, that have no respect, and are functionally worthless upon entering the work force.

But then again you folks are not rasing children, you are raising consumers, so for that purpose, you all are doing a great job!

@shilo——you do a terrific job rationalizing your positions. In 10 years we can come back together and see how it worked out.

@mizuki. No thank you to the get together.

As far as your other post is concerned, I fail to see how not spanking your child leads you to raise a “consumer”? Your logic regarding spanking is equally as flawed. Maybe all that spanking has knocked the logic right out of you?

I have never been spanked, and I am a very moral, riteous, productive member of society. I hope I can raise my own kids as well as I was raised.

edit: righteous

Mizuki – believe it or not, there are other successful ways of disciplining children besides spanking.

You said You folks are the reason for so many pathetic and directionless young people, that have no respect, and are functionally worthless upon entering the work force. While I agree that there are many directionless young people out there (and the rest), I seriously doubt that they are this way because they weren’t spanked. I think that they are this way because their parents warned that there would be consequences for their children’s actions, and then didn’t stick to their guns. A lot of parents don’t seem to realize that they aren’t helping their children when they give in to them. These young ones have a sense of entitlement, and expect things to fall into their laps, because their parents gave in and let them do what they wanted, and gave them what they wanted, without teaching them how to earn these things for themselves, and that they wouldn’t have those things without putting in the hard work.

Is it true, that there is an inverse relationship between spanking and intelligence? Extra credit if you can understand the premise of an inverse relationship.

As spanking increases intelligence decreases? Confounds being that trashy people are more likely to spank and more likely to reside in poor school districts, thus producing children that are products of poor school districts and appear less intelligent.

‘trashy people’?

In any case once again I don’t think correlation implies causation. There may be more spanking in disadvantaged areas and school districts but I’d wager there’s a stronger socioeconomic root cause.

I’m not completely convinced that either poverty or corporal punishment have any effect whatsoever on intelligence (or eventual social or economic status). A generalization of that kind smacks a bit of elitism.

@Knotmyday Sorry I didn’t explain myself well. I was referring to girlfoscience’s comment that spanking happens more in poor school districts. I think there are socioeconomic reasons as to why poor school districts may have a higher incidence of spanking.

I don’t think spanking causes anyone to smarter, dumber, richer, or poorer. I do think it the reasons people spank may in (some) part correlate with socioeconomic status.

Sorry everyone. My quip above was in response to a mean-spirited comment which has since been removed.

I wouldn’t be surprised if decreased spanking correlated with higher intelligence. I would think there is an underlying thought pattern that links the two, causally. I’d also expect more spanking to correlate with higher levels of religiousity.

These are just hypotheses, however.

@daloon Maybe because religious people are more likely to follow tradition? Though I really don’t think spanking correlates with religion, it seems more like a factor of the social and cultural enviroment to me…

When doing a Google search for “spanking children,” some of the only pro-spanking material I see is Bible based.

The first time, I left out “children” and just Googled “spanking” by mistake. Most of the material seemed very pro-spanking, but didn’t mention children.

Google (or the internet) tends to be western-centric. In much of Chinese culture (and from what I know, a few other Asian countries) it’s considered acceptable or at the very least carries less of a stigma than it does in western culture. While there are many Chinese Christians the practice of spanking isn’t derived from religion.

@shilio thank you for removing my comment. this is a great one sided conversation.

Is that why Fluther’s hits are decreasing? Because it is akin to a one sided conversation, where Shilio decides what goes and what does not?

maybe this is evidence of not being spanked as a kid—the need to exert absolute control over others. Does this also lead to inverse relationship between tolerance and and inteligence?

I’ll leave it to Richard…

[mod says:] I removed your comment after it was flagged by several users. Please read the Fluther guidelines before further participation, crude jokes and veiled attacks are not acceptable here. Feel free to meet me in the Fluther support chatroom if you want to discuss this, I’ll be in there for the next hour or two. Happy Fluthering everyone.

Also, Fluther’s usage is growing, not shrinking. Just thought I’d quietly point that out. ;)

@mizuki. Believe it or not, I would prefer your comments stay up, for all to see. I’m neither in favor of a one-sided “debate” nor unethical enough to remove other peoples’ comments just for the sake of it. And, for your information, recently I too was moderated by my colleagues (ce la vie).

@richard—see compete.com

@Mizuki: This question explains why third-party statistics aren’t a good measure of traffic. They guess using search results and link patterns. Here is an example of an extremely wrong chart.

Shi: For “The Bathroom Toilet,” I lurve thee here (‘cause I can’t do it there). That modded post stands as a monument to triumph. Hurrah.

well I live with my mom and she whips me with belts. This was such a problem that me and my brother david (he is 18) drive to my aunt’s hotel in the summer. But my mom has stopped now.

Oh, 90s…I am so sorry to hear that. Has it stopped simply because you are away or when you are home, too?

no she had therapy

If anyone is interested, I’ve just learnt that Fluther has an account with Quantcast; visitor information is supplied to Quantcast from Fluther in real-time. You can view the data here: http://www.quantcast.com/fluther.com. Unlike Compete or Alexa, that’s actually the bona-fide traffic stats straight from the horse’s mouth. Enjoy! (and no, usage isn’t falling. ;)

I love how it shows us as ‘addicts’.

my psychology teacher thinks that every parent should take a psychology course. i really really agree. i’m nowhere near being a parent, but i think psychology is a class everyone should take, especially parents. the development & learning aspects of it are probably the most helpful. i doubt most people would be willing to do this, but i think it’s a great idea.

spankings .. yes.. beating…no.

I don’t have a personal opinion on this, and won’t do until I have children of my own, but you might be interested to know that in the UK there have been recent changes to the law regarding parents disciplining their children.

After much (heated and varied) debate on the subject it was legislated that it was acceptable for parents to smack children, in this case smack being defined as an open handed blow with insufficient force to cause bruising. Any other form of blow (closed hand, with any object) was made illegal, with the consequences being severe for any parent convicted of neglecting this law.

It’s not perfect but it does give prosecutors the power they need to get children out of abusive households, but doesn’t mean you’ll suddenly have social services taking your children away when you swat them one for painting the youngest one with green leather dye.

“when you swat them one for painting the youngest one with green leather dye.”

I wish that’s all my son ever did, and I also wish that a quick swat would stop him. But alas, he is ODD, Bipolar, and in love with destruction and fire.

Trust me, green leather dye is baaaaaaaad.

And btw, you’re talking to the youngest one… SEEEEE? SEE WHAT HAPPENS???

Yeah, but the dye does eventually wear off, you know.

yes, about as fast as it takes for a human to shed an eighth of an inch of skin. Those were pivitol years of my life you know, i could have done without the bullying.

But just think of the empathy you developed in exchange!

No, No empathy.

Well, sorry about that.

Haha, so you should be!

I’m sorry about the lack of empathy, not the being green, although I know Kermit says it isn’t easy.

“like two ping pong balls, floating in a pool of green algae..”

When my boss wants to discipline me at work, she smacks me. When I speed on the motorway, the police officer smacks me. When some is rude to me in the street, I smack them… this results in me receiving a smack from the judge when I appear in court…

Seems silly to do it to children…

As adults, we are taught that violence is not acceptable and is punishable in a court of law. Why is it ok to teach children a different message?

As an adult, you can listen to the other side, discuss things with reason, and understand not only the implications of your actions on others, but more subtle punishments. I’m not sure that children under a certain age have that sort of reason. Instead, I think they are motivated by baser things, such as “Hungry!” or “Sleepy!” or “Ow!”

But doesn’t smacking a child encourage them to believe that smacking/physical behaviour is the solution to dealing with ones problems as an adult?

If it is acceptable for Mummy to hit me when I am bad, it is ok to hit others when they are bad.

To be perfectly blunt, my mom used physical punishment on me until I left home. And I know that it is not an acceptable way for adults to behave. I imagine that once a child is old enough to reason with, if the parent begins to use reason, the child will learn reason.

With some children they are able to understand the reasoning behind the smack and can understand that such behavior really cannot be passed on to adult life. However, those kids are the least likely to need a smack as other forms of punishment work just as well or better for them, such as removal of a toy, or time out, or even simple reasoning.

My daughter is one of these children and has been since she was tiny. We have never had to resort to giving her a smack. The worst punishment she could ever have received was social isolation, even for a few minutes. Otherwise, knowing that she has done something wrong in my eyes is often enough to get her to stop and resolve to never do it again. Except driving too fast, but then she hasn’t gotten a ticket yet. But I did show her how to use cruise control.

However, other children are the sort that cannot understand the difference. My son is that sort of child. Even when tiny he responded to a smack with a bite, a kick, or a retaliatory smack. We only got to that point, however, once we discovered that none of the other methods of discipline worked on him, and we only tried it once.

Even though we only smacked him that once, and did it under highly formal circumstances, rather like a court sentence being carried out, it took several years to convince him that physical violence is not the way to do things. Even now that he is 15 we haven’t entirely succeeded. He still thinks that socking someone is an appropriate way to express displeasure, and has been known to throw furniture at teachers he doesn’t like. He also still tries to bite, but then he has several mental illness diagnoses and is emotionally immature.

As a parent, you really need to tailor your discipline methods to the individual child.

Fact from fiction, truth from diction. I will put it like this, there were times I got spanked as a child and I did not like it. It never stopped me from loving my mother or she me God rest her soul. I remember when I was about 8 or 9yr old after recess some kid tried to cut the line. Some shoving ensued then a fight. The teacher tried to break us up and I got mad that she was preventing me from punching the other kid so I kicked her in the shin, my feet hardly touched the ground as she had me by the back of the collar Chaney dragging me to the principal’s office. And after I got there I got a swap from the principal, but I knew that was nothing compared to what awaited me at home. By the time I got there my mother knew all about it and gave me a good thrashing. I learned from that no matter what you NEVER hit or kick a teacher EVER. She didn’t need to get sued by the teacher, the cops did not have to arrest me for me to learn that, and I never sassed or struck a teacher again. I hardly think I would have found it that serious if all I was made to do is time out in a corner for 30 minutes and lost my iPod for a week. Sometimes you have to tax that butt so later in life the State Correction Dept. don’t finish the job.

If it is acceptable to strike children then it is equally OK for them to spank you when you are a senior citizen and act up.