If they are not marriage material, do you still date them?

Why not? If you want to do it, do it!

Well, considering I don’t know who I am going to be or who he’s going to be if we do get married, why not?

When you’re a kid, young teen, it’s kind of whatever.
I’m 19 and I wouldn’t date someone that I couldn’t see myself with long term. But hey, that’s just me.
I know people my age who would rather just date people to date, or just have some “fuck buddies”.

The way I see it. It’s your life. Depends what you’re looking for, and depends on how you want to live your life.

some people dont want to ever get married (like me), so YES i still date

Of course. I’m in it for the sex right now.

I’m also convinced that my ex and I are going to get back together and get married some day in the future. I’d be following in the footsteps of my parents, who were high school sweethearts and managed to get married to other people and go completely separate ways, but found each other and rekindled the love and have been married for twenty-someodd years. I just have this feeling that there is something unfinished between us.

But to answer your question, yes, especially at this point in my life.

I made that mistake in my first marriage and ended up falling in love with the guy and marrying him. He was supposed to be moving and it was just a fling. His mental illnes resulted in his suicide.
When I began dating again I resolved never to date a man I wouldn’t consider marrying. I found my Prince Charming. He’s prety darn amazing. I am a very blessed girl.

Marriage material,,,is that like polyester ?

I am in the point of my life now where I would really like to be married—it has become a goal, an aspiration of mine. So, no, I would not date someone who I felt had no chance of becoming the person I want to spend the rest of my life with. And if I am dating someone but then realize that we have no real future together, then it’s time for the relationship to end. I would rather be single and on the lookout for the potential “it” relationship than squandering my time, and perhaps missing my soulmate, in a relationship that has no future. In my 20s these kind of thoughts never crossed my mind.

Date them? I move in with them.

I’m not a fan of the idea of marriage, I’m more of a “committed relationship” kind of guy. To answer your question, yes I would date someone I don’t necessarily see a long term future with. The way I look at it, people are far too concerned with finding forever and ever when they date. I want to appreciate what I have for however long I have it. If it turns into something long term and serious, fantastic. If not, I don’t have that “long term” expectation to be disappointed by.

it’s not about the age, it’s about the phase.

If you are looking for someone to marry, then maybe you’d better stop dating the wrong person. I actually dumped a girl like that when I was in that situation, and met my wife a few days later (despite the fact that my wife turned out to not be marriage material either). But at the same time, I can imagine being patient and waiting for the other person to grow up(the one in question was 21 though so that would involve a long wait), or simply enjoying the relationship you are in if you’re in love, without thinking about the future (which is what I’m doing now that I don’t plan to get remarried).

What is certainly wrong is to stick around someone who is not right for you, and then insist on changing them (girls tend to do that a lot). In the best case scenario, you’ll get it your way, and force that person to change for you, but it is only a matter of time before they go back to their old ways and generally give up trying. Marrying mr.Wrong is what has led to these high divorce rates worldwide.

I have a cousin who is 43 and would have liked to get married and have children, but now it’s too late. She’s been since this guy for 7 years, and he doesn’t want to marry her. If they’d done it early enough, she could have perhaps managed to have kids too, but now it’s probably too late. The reason she’s stayed with him so long is that, even though it is not going anywhere, it is a good relationship, and he treats her nicely. If not for him, she would have probably just stayed alone all these years anyway.

@Jack79 What about Ms. Wrong??

I married Ms.Wrong. She’s made my life (and that of our daughter) a living hell. Though my point is that usually men marry the wrong woman accidentally, whereas women marry a man who they know is wrong, and then hope to change him.

@Jack79 Ah, I understand your meaning now. But you don’t think that men ever enter into a relationship hoping to change the woman? As in “I know she likes to party and go out with her friends and flirt with tons of guys at bars now, even sometimes get so drunk she does things at bars w/ guys that she does not really even remember the next day, but she says she loves me, wants to marry me, have babies with me and after she gets married she wants to ‘settle down and be a good girl.’ So I’ll marry her and hope she changes after we get married like she says she will.” You don’t think guys ever use this kind of logic as well?

Dating is about fun, not just finding someone to marry. I think kids in the current generation have forgotten that. They must feel such pressure to pair up, and move in, and marry. Do they put this on themselves, or is it coming from the outside?

Dating is to find out IF they are marriage material,

I’m looking for Ms. Right, I’m not looking for Ms. Right now.

@daloon Dating is about what we want to get out of it. “Having fun” is cool, as long as both parties are on the same page. Some other people, like myself and @DrBill apparently, have other desires. I don’t want to waste any more time frivolously “having fun” if there’s no chance of the relationship developing into something real w/ the possibility of turning into something very long-term

@tb1570 Ah, and you are wondering how many people are like yourself? I get it. You sound like a very serious, goal-oriented person. That can be good, but it can also get in the way of finding a mate. Other people are not so serious, not because they aren’t interested in finding a mate, but that they can’t know at the beginning, or even for a while. It seems to me, that if you lay back a bit, date more than one person at a time, you can wait for something to develop. If you only date one person, all the pressure is on this one relationship. It seems to me that makes it much harder for people to be themselves, and more likely, that if you do marry the person, there will be some unpleasant surprises.

@daloon Hmmmm….. I don’t think I am so serious or so goal orientated. In fact, I think my lack of goal making skills lends itself to many difficulties in my life, not to mention my frequent feelings of feeling “lost.” I’m rapidly approaching the big four-oh and for the most part I still don’t know what the hell I want to do with my life!!!

However, back to the topic at hand, one of the things I do know I would like out of life is to experience a true, loving, long-term relationship based on mutual trust, respect and gratitude. In short, I want “real love.” So, as such, finding a person to begin this journey with is important to me. But really, I think we are discussing two sides of the same coin. Of course dating numerous people can give us an idea of what we really need & want from a relationship and a potential lifetime partner. My point is, if it is our goal to find a serious, long-term relationship, when we reach a point in a relationship where it becomes evident that there is no real possibility for anything long-term, why continue? I mean, what if I am walking down the street, holding the hand of the girl I am just dating for “fun,” when I pass the girl I could have a real future with, but she doesn’t even notice me b/c I am with the other not-so-serious girlfriend? Or conversely, what if the girl I could truly love is sitting across from me in the coffee shop, but I don’t give her a second look b/c she is laughing and smooching w/ her not-so-serious bf, the guy she’s with “just for fun” or to simply stave off loneliness? My point is, I don’t want to waste time in a relationship I know in my heart has no chance to develop into something long-term—I don’t think it’s fair to me or to her (what if she starts to develop real feelings for me but for me she’s “just for fun” until “something better” comes along? I wouldn’t want someone to do that to me, and I really do not want to hurt someone else, either). I don’t want to miss my chance with “Ms. Right” b/c I am busy messing around w/ “Ms. Right Now.” Do you see my meaning?

And I also think there is another important issue to consider here, namely: sex. For me, when considering the possibility of compatibility in terms of a long-term relationship, sexual chemistry and compatibility is an extremely important part of the equation. What this means is, if I am in a relationship, I want to be sexually active w/ my relationship partner. I would not consider marrying someone w/ whom we had not experimented w/ our sexual compatibility & chemistry. I do not, however, want to be sexually active with more than one person at once as I feel this is unfair to all parties involved, not to mention potentially dangerous to our health. I also feel it’s a little gross and I would definitely not want to be intimately involved with a woman who was sexually active w/ other men. (and here I certainly do not mean to imply that you suggest or condone such activity).

In my opinion, it all boils down to this: yes, we have every right to date as many people as we want. However, if we do choose to date more than one person at once I feel we have an obligation to make this clear from the get-go. And for me personally, if I reach the point in a relationship where I am reasonably sure that there is no shot at something long-term, then I believe there is no point in continuing the relationship b/c I do not want to miss my opportunity with the woman who may actually be my “soul mate.”

tb1570, of course we do, though in my experience (talking to friends and relatives and hearing various stories), it is more common for men to make that error in judgement than women. I also did that once (even got engaged to that girl). But have accepted my gf as she was more often than not (or simply broke up if things weren’t going the right direction).

This question presumes that dating is a good way of evaluating marriageable material. It leads, to some extent, to the commodification of the women. You are evaluating them for one purpose only, and it’s an artificial thing.

I think that it is better, both socially and in terms of your goal, to scrap the dating thing in favor of a more relaxed approach. You’ve probably seen people write this here before. I think it’s more effective to join organizations regarding something you really love. You might meet someone there. I had a friend who joined a group that urged the US to get involved in Southern Europe. She was in her 40’s at the time, and she met her husband there. In many ways, they are a surprising couple, because their interests, for the most part, are completely different. But they share the same politics and that was a good start.

I met my wife at a dance workshop I attended regularly. I met other girlfriends at work or at college. I never did date.

If you meet this way, it gives you a chance to get to know the person before you date. You may be just going along and then, suddenly, you realize you are starting a Relationship. I think this is a more natural and more effective way of identifying someone you could be married to. Dating, no matter how genuine you try to be, is an artificial construct, where each person is evaluating the other. That’s just too much pressure, it seems to me. Even if you hit it off right away, it encourages you to rush into something, even before you know the person in other contexts besides just the two of you.

I agree it is not always easy to find the “right” one, but it seems awful easy to identify the wrong one.

@daloon Trying to find what you want in a relationship and a partner leads to “the commodification of the women?” I absolutely, completely disagree. If I were a woman and said I wanted to find a man with whom I could have a happy, healthy relationship, would you accuse me of “the commodification of men?” In fact, I feel I am being more respectful and upfront w/ the women I date in that when we realize the relationship has no future, we end it. No leading someone on, giving false hopes, playing or being inconsiderate w/ someone’s feelings, or simply dragging out the relationship to some horrible end b/c no one has the courage to end it.

And what is your definition of “date,” by the way? You say you “never did date.” What exactly do you mean? One day you met the woman who is now your wife at a dance workshop and the next day she was your gf? You never had a period of courtship or went out on dates together before you consumated your relationship, with your wife or any of your other girlfriends?? I really don’t understand where you’re coming from on this one. You may say you started out as friends before you started a relationship, but you still dated. I don’t know, maybe our definitions are just different, that’s all. No use arguing over semantics.

@tb1570:

First, semantics. You are probably right that I have a very restricted view of dating. To me, dating has an element of chance—in that the person you want to date may decide to turn you down. I.e., you are not yet in an established relationship. I don’t think that going to the movies with your established “girlfriend” should be considered a date. I mean, it’s more of a “what are going to do, tonight, dear” kind of thing. If you consider that a date, that could explain our different understanding of the term.

As to my wife. I gave her rides home after the dance workshop. It wasn’t planned; it was just that we were going in the same direction. Each time we reached her destination, we spent an hour talking in the car before she got out. The third time, she invited me up. The rest, as they say, was history. Does unplanned talking in the car count as a date?

Commodification: Yes, I think women do it as much as men do it. At its crudest, where women are sex objects, men are success objects. Of course, it is a great deal subtler than that. I think it depends on your approach to your relationship to your potential partner. If you “date” them expressly with the idea of evaluating them, I would consider that “commodification.” If you date them in order to have fun together, doing something you both enjoy, and that is the goal, then I would not consider that commodification.

Now, I do think your point about not leading people on or giving false hopes, etc, is a very good point. It is proper courtesy. Also, I don’t necessarily think commodification is a bad thing. I think it’s a less fruitful approach, but certainly relationships started with dating can turn into relationships based on a love for the other person, not just a determination if they fit your profile of a marriage partner.

Of course, this does depend on a mutual understanding of the other person’s goals in the date. If you are both evaluating each other, and you explicitly understand this, then sure, cut it off as soon as you think they don’t fit your profile. That’s the way the game is played these days. You could argue that’s the way the game has always been played. I.e., the idea that marriages are always economic relationships.

If you use a broadened definition of economic, you can include things like taste in music, movies and drinking; desire for children or not; where you want to live; politics; sexual compatibility; whatever you want. You are testing them to see if they fit, and if not, on to the next person. I think that dehumanizes people, and that’s why I think it’s commodification.

My underlying idea in this, is that I don’t believe people really know fully what they want. There’s more to a relationship than we can consciously know. Also, I don’t believe in the soulmate idea. There’s not just one person, there are many people we could happily mate with, if we have the skills to work a relationship. There’s some kernel inside the heart of a relationship that is inexpressible in words. That kernel can be built. It doesn’t just have to be there from the first date, like magic. If you commodify a date, you’ll never get to find out if that kernel is possible to build.

Anyway, that’s just my way of seeing things. I do believe a lot of people are unhappy because of how they approach finding a partner. I think a lot of divorces occur because people believe in magic, not in work. People expect the magic to magically continue, and when it doesn’t they think they made the wrong choice, and it’s time to bug out.

I’m sure we disagree on this. That’s cool. Probably I’m “wrong” in the sense that I don’t represent the feeling of very many people. But maybe I’m right, and maybe if people took my way of doing things, they might end up happier in more solid relationships. We won’t know unless we test this.

@daloon I think the only thing we definitely disagree on is your assertation that “I’m sure we disagree on this” and that you’re “probably wrong.” : )

Actually, I don’t think we are that far off from each other. I use the word “soul mate” very loosely and I completely agree that there may be more than one “ideal” partner for us all. In fact, I agree that there may be no “soul mate” per se and holding on to the notion of an “ideal” partner only leads to disappointment & loneliness. I also certainly agree that a successful relationship requires work, dedication, compromise and sacrifice. And I would also agree that the reason many relationships fail these days is b/c many people expect this Hollywood notion of love & relationships and as soon as any real problems arise, many people just look for the easy way out, rather than take the trouble to try and work at creating something that might develope into something even more wonderful. Seems people are lazy in relationships these days and don’t know (or want to respect) the true meaning of the words “love & dedication.”

I’m truly happy you & your wife found each other, and I hope to be so lucky myself some day. My point was only that if you encounter a “deal breaker,” then why continue? I mean, what if after that night your wife invited you up you later discovered there was something you to could not see eye to eye on, and it was not something you could just let go?

As for the definition of dating, I think we’re just dancing around the definition. My assertation would be that you & your wife began dating the night she invited you up and continued dating until you agreed on solid plans to get married (or at least to be togehter a long time). And I still maintain that having an idea of what you would like from a partner and a relationship is not a bad thing. Does it mean you should not be open to new & wonderful experiences? Of course not. Does it mean you should be completely rigid in your ideas & hopes? Again, of course not. Flexibility is key, and when we relax and just let things go, sometimes wonderful things can happen. Or at least that’s what I keep telling myself…

@tb1570: Well, here’s a kick in the head: I think you’re right!