What's the difference between an addiction to Heroin or Crack and an addiction to Nicotine or Bad foods?

The media’s bastardization of drugs
and the fact that drugs, unlike most foods, don’t kill brain cells.

@ninjacolin; You mean heroin, I presume. A heroine is a female hero. Although I suppose you could be addicted to Joan of Arc or Eleanor Roosevelt.

The two former are usually significantly more debilitating than the latter. You rarely see someone hold up a convenience store for a twinkie or a pack of smokes.

thanks, gailcalled.. i edited. :)

@SeventhSense people hold up stores for money. For the purpose of gaining personal advantage and the freedom to get other things that are not as easily accessible as twinkies nor even as accessible as convenience store cash registers.

@SeventhSense some heroin users have their lives under control.
Some heroin users quit and never go back to it. (or so I hear)

As I’ve already admitted, I go on a McD’s binge 2 or 3 times a year myself.. so, I seem to be just as debilitated. The effect simply isn’t as dramatic and the substance is far more easily attainable and for cheap.

@ninjacolin
But it’s far more often for drugs then food or cigs.

Damn, @gailcalled, couldn’t you have waited a while to point out that mispelling? What I could have done with an addiction to [a] heroine! Sigh.

There are several physical differences so that the results vary on the damage they do and the severity of the addiction, which you can look up if you care.

However, the main difference is some are ‘controlled’ substances and are illegal, while others aren’t. The prices of ‘controlled’ substances are kept artificially high, thereby leading to crime, and the others are more likely to be controlled by the normal economic factors.

In my opinion, they should all be legalized. It would be one of the best ways to reduce our overpopulation problem, before we have to resort to limiting births or some such.

Hmm… something’s wrong with that, @SeventhSense though I’m having trouble putting my finger on it…

Isn’t it clear that the only people who steal (in such circumstances) are people who do not have money to do the things they want?

Or are compelled through severe physical and psychological cravings.
Are you comparing a McD’s binge to-(WARNING) this. Try detoxing from heroin and then detoxing from burgers. Tell me which one is harder.

Short of an overdose, I think the food will kill you fastest followed by the nicotine and then the crack and heroin.

@SeventhSense Well, I seriously don’t think very many people ever crave robbing a store. I think robbing a store is a rational decision that someone without money who wants money may make.

And the duration and difficulty of the Detox is substance-specific and hence not what I’m asking.

@VzzBzz
He and she and he and he and he would beg to differ

still looking for the right way to ask my question..

Some substances are definitely more addictive than others. But regardless of how addicted someone is, is the solution for addiction always the same in principal?

Ask Winona Ryder how she feels about stealing.

@ninjacolin Maybe try to get away from the word addiction, which is used to describe anything from craving, to habitual user, to physical dependence. Many people try to call a fondness for reading or using the computer an addiction.

lol, tinyfaery.. that’s stealing not robbing. although adrenaline is a substance too i guess.

hmm… i don’t think i can get away from the word. “addiction” is the very thing I’m trying to figure out. i want to know if there are different types of addiction.. and i don’t mean different causes for addiction. i mean different affects of addiction.

The addictions physically affect your body in different ways. The illicit drugs are also stored in your body and affect your body even when not actively using. This can happen with fatty foods yes but the physical effects from fatty foods are quite different from that of illicit drugs. I would say the main difference is the effect they have on brain function. So getting to the addiction part. It is the chemical release in the brain that causes drug addictions to be stronger than other addictions.

One example. When someone takes meth for the first time they get Really high and it feels Really good. Every time after that they are chasing the first high. They still enjoy the high they get but it’s never as good as the first time. They always want that first time.

When you eat a mcdonald’s hamburger, ya you want another one. You might even REALLY want another one. But you aren’t chasing the “high” you got from eating the first one.

It just involves the chemicals so strongly that you can’t really separate them out when you are talking about the addiction itself. The addiction is fueled by the chemicals released in the brain. It is true that many many people have addictive personalities and really need their mcdonalds (especially as a replacement for their drugs) but that mcdonalds addiction doesn’t touch the addiction of heroin or meth. The physical processes are quite different thus making the addictions quite different.

i guess i’m challenging that for the fact that most people (like me) can’t promise never to eat McD’s again because we would end up being proven as liars. We will end up giving in just like a heroine addict who gives in to another craving.

What is the difference, then, in the fact that I’m giving in to McD’s and a Heroin addict is giving in to Heroin? Haven’t we both given in at the same level?

put another way: is the ONLY difference the fact that I can laugh about my addiction to McD’s because the harm to my body isn’t as severe as an addiction to heroin?

This is a great question. I would have to argue that the biological mechanism underlying all forms of addiction is the same. In fact, I have a professor who has suggested that the entire process of addiction is really just the biological process for memory gone awry.

Arguably, different drugs rely on different neurochemical systems to create the sensation of pleasure. Specific to your question, heroin relies on the opiate system, crack relies on the dopamine system, nicotine relies on…a lot of systems, and bad foods primarily stimulate the dopamine system (yep, same as crack).

But I think this presents a really interesting philosophical question. Does activating different neurotransmitter systems represent a fundamentally different phenomenon? I think not, really. They’re different reward pathways and they manifest in different brain areas, but what’s going on is ultimately that an outside substance is acting on your brain to create the sensation of pleasure.

Now, addiction is actually a lot more complicated than just pleasure-seeking. When I researched addiction in college, the prevailing hypothesis was that there is a difference between liking a drug and wanting a drug. Many serious drug addicts find that they no longer get pleasure from their drug of choice (they don’t like it anymore), yet they cannot stop using it (they still want it very badly). I think this represents a fundamental difference between addiction and pleasure-seeking, but I do not think there is a fundamental difference between addiction to junk food versus heroin.

@ninjacolin
Are you saying that other things can be addicting? Yes of course. But your question asks what is the difference. That word is going to imply a comparison by way of qualification or quantification. So yes I believe that many things are and can be addictive. I at one time or another was probably addicted to many of them. But the difference between my desire to smoke a cigar or a joint are too very different animals and hold a very diferent degree of danger for me. But can you be completely hamstrung by your overeating and inability to lose weight? By all means. Can it drive you to the brink of depair and suicide? It’s happened on many occasions and I am sure that it will continue. So in some sense psychologically they can create the same states. Some substances will just get you there quicker.

Nice, @nikipedia! We’re on the same page. Thank you.

@SeventhSense said: “Some substances will just get you there quicker.”

Right. These are weaker but valid differences I guess:
– Some substances are “more” addicitve.. meaning getting over them is harder
– Some substances are more “easily” addictive.. meaning you can get hooked quicker.

@nikipedia, at first glance, I can’t help but disagree with the notion that it is any more involved than Pleasure seeking. If one of those people who claimed they didn’t “like” it were not able to have it.. do they not feel the opposite of pleasure in their absence? wouldn’t it Please them to know that they can fulfill their admittedly undesirable craving?

Perhaps this is a semantic difference but I can’t help but feel that subscribing to such paradoxes do more harm than good to a would be recoveree.

@nikipedia said: “Does activating different neurotransmitter systems represent a fundamentally different phenomenon? I think not, really. They’re different reward pathways and they manifest in different brain areas, but what’s going on is ultimately that an outside substance is acting on your brain to create the sensation of pleasure.”

thanks for this! exactly what i’m getting at.

if a drug actually made you more susceptible TO addiction.. that would be the sort of significant difference that I’m looking for.

@ninjacolin: I respect that it doesn’t resonate with you intuitively. Have you ever taken a drug and experienced withdrawal from it? If you have, you will agree that ending withdrawal is not the same as getting high/experiencing pleasure.

I think some drugs make you more susceptible to addiction by virtue of their potency. I remember once upon a time seeing a linear regression of addictiveness versus ability to cross the blood brain barrier, and they correlated perfectly. I can’t find a similar graph now though, so I might be inventing that…

hmm.. What do you mean by “ending withdrawl” ?
do you mean.. giving in after a long fight?

I mean that if you are addicted to a drug, and if you stop taking that drug, you undergo a certain set of characteristic symptoms that vary according to the drug in question. That is what the term “withdrawal” refers to. Taking the drug will end those symptoms. That is very different from what a person experiences when s/he gets high.

Ok, just wanted to be sure.
@nijipedia said: “you will agree that ending withdrawal is not the same as getting high/experiencing pleasure.”

If one is suffering withdrwal symptoms, they are in a state of displeasure. Taking the drug to end those symptoms would be an act to alleviate that state of displeasure, wouldn’t you say? Hence, it would seem appropriate to me to refer to it as a pleasure seeking act.

@nikipedia said: “I remember once upon a time seeing a linear regression of addictiveness versus ability to cross the blood brain barrier, and they correlated perfectly.”

i don’t understand that blood barrier stuff. i have no context for that term. :(
i would love to see such a graph though (and have it explained) one day.

@nikipedia said: “In fact, I have a professor who has suggested that the entire process of addiction is really just the biological process for memory gone awry.”

I’m already in favor of this idea. Take any person who is devastatingly addicted to heroin and then give them amnesia so that they don’t remember what they are addicted to…

what would the result be?

DEATH BY OVERDOSE!

I think I’ll name my band that.

Heroin and Crack are illegal and possession will get you put away. Bad foods and nicotine are still legal and only put your good health away.

@ninjacolin It’s not the same because the severity of the addiction to Heroine is much much stronger. It doesn’t even compare to the severity of McDs and therefore giving into Heroine is much easier than giving into McDs.

If we’re merely comparing strength in addiction of superfluous substances then we would have to say that oxygen is the most addictive out of all of these. you can only go a couple minutes at best without demanding another hit.

@RedPowerLady said: “giving into Heroine is much easier than giving into McDs.”

I’m not sure this is true. Everytime someone comes in with mcd’s and offers me a fry, i rarely ever find the strength to refuse one. Once I’ve eaten McD’s and am full, I don’t pursue another burger right away. Similarly, Heroine addicts who have taken a hit of Heroine (non-overdosing) don’t continue to shoot up while they are “full” of heroine from a hit. It’s when I haven’t had mcd’s for a while and am hungry that the craving comes back. Just as when a heroin addict is hungry for another hit that they finally pursue another.

is this not accurate?

One will kill you faster than thee other. One will also make you more likely to steal or hurt others.

Intensity of pain related to the withdrawal symptons.

@Daloon:^^ you have a second chance. ” the severity of the addiction to Heroine is much stronger.”

You can’t snort or shoot up cheeseburgers.

The withdrawal from heroin or alcohol can be fatal. Food or even tobacco has no medical withdrawal symptoms to speak of. The withdrawal from caffeine usually consists of a headache and nothing more.

@ninjacolin But it is much stronger for a heroine addict. I’m pretty sure you can find research that backs this up. The chemical reactions in the brain that occur because of heroin addiction are different and much stronger than that for McDs. It is the same process yes. But heroin occurs on a MUCH higher level. And lets not forget about the withdrawls. Much different and much stronger for illicit drugs.

Wow, if withdrawl can be fatal.. i guess that makes for a pretty big diff.

@RedPowerLady – Much different and much stronger for illicit drugs. add to the physical symptoms the changes in behaviour, associations, etc. Someone I know became a cocaine addict: the changes in him were sudden and unwelcome. Once he had spent all his money, lost his job, his wife and his child, his life became a never ending search for funds to pay for the next fix. Nothing was safe: his parents’ valuables, his friends’ wallets, you name it. It was when strange people began visiting the house that his parents put him out, they could no longer cope. The only legal drug that causes that behaviour is, I think, alcohol.

@bea2345 I agree. Very good point!! (Alcohol yes but I can’t think of another either).

@bea2345 GA