General Question

Deepness's avatar

Can a homosexual turn into a heterosexual?

Asked by Deepness (1125 points ) August 3rd, 2009

We’ve all heard of straight people veering off onto the curved road either in secret or publicly. Can a gay person become straight? What would it take for them to become straight? Has anyone ever heard of any instances in which a gay person turned hetero and lived happily ever after?

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92 Answers

crunchaweezy's avatar

Most “straight” men that take the curved row have probably been gay all along just tried to fit in to hide from discrimination.

MacBean's avatar

Sexuality is fluid. Anybody can become anything.

Bluefreedom's avatar

I think a heterosexual could turn into a metrosexual.

Jack79's avatar

Never. It’s what crunch said. Sure, your taste might change a little, I know I’ve slightly altered my taste in women, but it’s still women, and it’s not as if I ever liked them extremely fat/tall/skinny and now it’s the opposite. But you could never just swap. The stories about “straight men going gay” are simply stories of gay men that came out of the closet (sometimes they may not have been aware of their homosexuality themselves, but that doesn’t mean they changed gender).

jrpowell's avatar

I think anyone can do whatever they want between two consenting adults. My first girlfriend hooked up with her best friend (female) after we broke up. Five years later she married a guy.

I think you might be looking over the mental aspect of things. Relationships aren’t all about fucking. There is a mental connection in ones that will last. So yeah, my ex had a metal connection with her best friend and it evolved. Then that broke down and she had another connection with another guy and they got married.

Jack79's avatar

@johnpowell yeah but that girl was probably bi all along, it’s not as if she was straight, then gay, then straight again.

I also had a similar experience, but mine was a pure lesbian that decided to try out a relationship with a man for a change. It lasted a whole year (amazingly).

jrpowell's avatar

@Jack79 :: That was actually my point. I was trying to illustrate that it isn’t always black and white. The phrasing of the original question irked me.

richardhenry's avatar

A gay guy once described it like this to me: “It’s not that I only like men, it’s that the people I seem to have liked the most so far have been men. If I met a woman that made me as crazy as some of guys I’ve met have, then I wouldn’t have a problem with wanting to be with her. This said, I sort of find vaginas disgusting.”

Saturated_Brain's avatar

I saw the question title and laughed. Oh don’t we all just wish that homosexuals could turn into heterosexuals?

My honest opinion is that it’s actually possible. But it depends on how hard you want it and how far you’re willing to go. People are amazing creatures. If we want something hard enough and strive for it hard enough, enduring all the pain and suffering that will be on the way towards any goal, we’ll achieve it. Sexuality changes included.

But then, you gotta ask homosexuals whether they see a need to turn straight. I daresay that many wouldn’t feel a compelling desperate need to even start “going straight”.

noodle_poodle's avatar

who knows? i dont think people come with set rules just because of the way we currently view relationships maybe in 50 years time it will all be different maybe it wont..i certainly didnt come with a Manuel or guide book and i am pretty sure the rest of the human race didnt either…it seems a little daft to put things in concrete when everyone experiences life, existence the universe and everything, in their own way that might be completely different to your own

gottamakeart's avatar

I don’t beleive anyone “turns” eiher way.

Quagmire's avatar

I think you are born one way or the other. Questions only come about when someone confuses being gay (i.e., being sexually attracted to the same sex) with exhibiting gay behaviors. Being gay and “behaving like a gay” are two different things. Prisoners exhibit gay behavior with each other, but fantasize that the experience is actually with a person of the opposite sex. When a person “seems” to change, I believe it’s just the behavior that’s changing and not the attraction.

dpworkin's avatar

I think that people are distributed along a continuum of sexuality that includes asexuality, ambisexuality with a preference for once sex or another, ambisexuality with no clear preference, strict heterosexuality and strict homosexuality.

Kinsey proposed a six-point scale of sexuality, with 1 being completely heterosexual, 3 bisexual, and 6 completely homosexual. Maybe that is not a bad way to visualize the distribution, though of course there must be an infinite number of points between 1 and 6.

I believe that due to many environmental and genetic causes (polygenic causes), by adulthood we find a more-or-less fixed spot for ourselves along this continuum, and regardless of behavior (as distinct from inclination) we more or less stay near that spot. Your behavior may change, but that doesn’t mean that you have “turned”. (@Quagmire makes this point above.)

marinelife's avatar

While sexuality is a continuum, unless one is bi or experimenting or living a lie, you don’t “turn into” anything.

Ted Haggard is living proof you cannot turn into a heterosexual. You can, however, lie to yourself and others about your sexual orientation.

BBSDTfamily's avatar

One could choose to live whichever lifestyle they wanted to live, but I don’t know if you can change your sexual preference.

Likeradar's avatar

Doubt it. Behavior could change, but I’m doubtful that actual preference could.

evelyns_pet_zebra's avatar

I agree with MacBean, I don’t think sexuality is as clearly defined as most people would assume. Unfortunately, people have certain ideals about what is right or wrong in sexual matters (not talking anything about children here) and they let that skew what they believe is true. Sort of like people that assume bisexuals are confused, or haven’t made up their mind yet. I really hate it when people use that to describe people of a pansexual nature.

Tastes change, whether it be in food, music, colors, environment, locations, or sexual partners/identity. To assume that sexuality is fixed by a certain age or time of life is to assume you know what drives another person’s sexuality. Sex isn’t either or, black or white, gay or straight for everybody.

And to answer your question, who knows? I suppose anything is possible. I know of people with attractions that don’t fit any category.

one of my dear friends is sexually attracted to trees, preferably pines.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

I’m with @MacBean and @richardhenry
I definitely believe people may take different labels for what their sexuality is but that, to me, sexuality is fluid and therefore when a person realizes something new or old about themselves, it doesn’t mean they ‘turned’

casheroo's avatar

I don’t think people need such strict lables. Why do we have to define someone as strictly gay? I mean, of course there are some people who are only ever attracted to the same sex, or the opposite sex. But, some people just like who they like. Sex or gender…whatever it is, doesn’t matter.

Deepness's avatar

I don’t see why a person can’t “turn”. It boils down to choice. A person has to make a decision.

Response moderated
Likeradar's avatar

@Deepness Did you chose your sexual preference?

Deepness's avatar

@Likeradar I think so. There is always a choice. When you come upon a fork in the road. You choose to either go left or go right. My answer to you is a loud “Yes!”.

Likeradar's avatar

@Deepness Interesting. :)

I sure didn’t… it definitley wasn’t a conscious decision to be kinda icked out by the idea touching another woman’s bits.

I wonder what other people thing about this. Maybe I should start a different q.

Quagmire's avatar

Not when it comes to ATTRACTION. With attraction, it’s in your genes. How you BEHAVE is somewhat under your control but even THAT is really based upon your natural attraction.

Similarly, we can HATE someone’s who harms a cat and that’s innate. Whether we kill the person or not is a choice we make, bound by our perception of what’s right and what’s wrong.

Jack79's avatar

I completely disagree with Deepness. If it were that easy, gay people would simply take the other turn and not have to deal with all these social problems that often lead to anxiety and depression. Why would anyone choose to have a sexual life that was not only limiting, but would lead to social rejection, fights with their family, prejudice, ridicule, and even hate crimes? Why not simply choose the other way? It’s because they can’t. People like that have tried for centuries to “fit in”, often by hiding their sexuality from others, in many cases even marrying and leading “normal” lives. And they are miserable. So no, you don’t get to pick. You are either attracted to someone or you’re not, in the same way that you may like a certain type of food or find it disgusting. Whether you actually swallow it is a different story.

Deepness's avatar

@Jack79 It’s ok to disagree. Your points are valid. However, the argument that a person who “becomes” gay was actually homosexual all along and was only suppressing his/her true nature can be challenged based on your comment. There are some foods I hated as a child. As I grew up, I learned to like them and vice versa. There was no suppressed veggie lover here all along. Therefore, I think people can learn attraction.

Our muscles have memory. All of them. Including the heart muscle. When a person is attracted to another person, the heart’s rhythm hastens. We can train this muscle to get excited. It’s just as when a person has a newfound hobby (interest), they spend lots of time with it and it excites them. If a person is genuinely interested in switching sides, they can. Attraction and lust are very similar. Lust and attraction can both be an addiction. Addictions can be broken.

Jack79's avatar

which is why I also admitted slightly changing my taste in women (not willingly, it just happened as I grew older). And I also changed food taste. But I still like women, and I still like meat, and I’m not a vegetarian. And similarly I still like rock music, even though I moved from heavier to bluesier stuff as I got older. But I’d never kiss a guy, eat broccoli or buy a pop album.

Quagmire's avatar

@Deepness , I submit that you did not “learn” to like foods (excluding a psychological factor, ex. a child might not eat tripe solely because of what it is. As he gets older, what it is has no impact). If they did not appeal to your ADULT taste buds, you would NOT be eating them. George Bush (41) never liked broccoli. You can put it in your mouth, you can even swallow it, but you don’t EVER like the taste. Ask an obese person how much they like the diet food they have to eat. If we could really learn to like/dislike foods, there should be no obese people in the world maybe. What I wouldn’t give to dislike cake!

You also put the cart before the horse with your heart example. When one is attracted to another person, ONE of the many things that happens is that the heart’s rhythm hastens. But heart rhythm does NOT equal attraction. More to the point is what the PENIS is doing. I don’t know about you, but I think most men can’t train their penis to get an erection. When it happens, along with what sex we dream and fantasize about, is not under our control.

DominicX's avatar

I agree with @Saturated_Brain in that it’s most likely possible, but it would be very difficult.

@Deepness

If you’re gay, it’s going to very difficult to change what you’re attracted to. It isn’t a matter of a simple choice. I did not choose my sexual attraction. I’ve always been attracted to guys and I wouldn’t want it any other way.

dalepetrie's avatar

I will re-iterate, what others have said. We all have “tastes”. I prefer brunettes to blondes for example. I like certain body types better than others. I like certain eye colors better than others, and that can vary with the color of hair. There are features women have that I find attractive and there are features they can have which I don’t. But invariably, women turn me on, men do not. I’m straight. And I did not CHOOSE that. This my INGRAINED sexual preference.

Could I turn gay? Well, I could submit to gay sex. I could think about things that do turn me on and pretend. I could fake it if a gun were held to my head. But I wouldn’t like it. it would not satisfy my ingrained desires. I would not “become” gay. I could however “become” gay to the outward world…I could make people think I was gay. And given the human’s power of self-delusion, I probably could convince myself I was gay if the incentive was correct.

But that would be basically denying who I am, it would mean being something I am not. And I doubt I could ever fully turn off that part of me that desires women. Again, I have my preferences…and just like I could have sex with a woman I didn’t find attractive (men do it all the time with the help of a little bit of alcohol), I still would prefer something different. And I did not choose my preferences, and I can not change them to any large degree, they are ingrained, a part of me. To a degree they might be a little flexible, like I will always think chocolate ice cream is the best flavor, but I can certainly go through a period where I’m into vanilla. There are my main top line preferences (when it comes to women, I say brunettes), then there are my overall preferences (women) and my aversions (men). I can certainly appreciate ANY woman given the right circumstances, even if she is blonde, not a problem, kind of like vanilla ice cream when you’ve got a craving for chocolate…it may not be what you REALLY wanted, but it damn sure is ice cream. But I can’t appreciate men…so if you offer me a bowl of rutabagas when I’m looking forward to a bowl of chocolate ice cream, I’m not going to want it, period. Whereas if you offer me vanilla, well hell, it’s still ice cream. Put a gun to my head and I’ll suppress my gag reflex and eat the bowl of rutabagas, but I ain’t gonna like it. You make me do it often enough and I may start to tolerate it, get used to it, even find things to enjoy about it, maybe even convince myself that I liked rutabagas all along and didn’t know it. But I’m still going to want ice cream, preferably chocolate, that’s still going to be my natural preference.

So, I think there ARE examples of people being “converted” from homosexuality to heterosexuality, but remember how I used the “put a gun to your head” analogy? Well, every single case I’ve ever heard of has involved a gun to the head situation…the gun was called religion. You tell Bobby that he keeps sucking cock, he’s going to spend an eternity in hell, and he actually BELIEVES that bullshit, yeah, he’ll become a vagitarian right quick. It will take basically deprogramming, brainwashing and fear tactics to get him to be “normal” in the eyes of those who would convert him, but you do that and sooner or later, Bobby is going to find some dick that no one knows about and keep it as his own little secret. Bobby might well grow up and get married and have a couple kids, but you know the only way he gets wood for his wife is by imagining that she’s a dude and telling himself that if he doesn’t do this, he’s going to burn in hell.

So, the answer to the question is technically, yes, you can for all intents and purposes to the view of the outside world make a gay person behave like a straight person. No, you can not change who they are though, and you should never try, it’s cruel and inhuman to do so, and if you do, you deserve to die a slow, painful death, you homophobic fuck.

evelyns_pet_zebra's avatar

Anyone who thinks changing one’s sexual preference is as easy as taking the other fork in the road is quite obviously unable to understand the word preference. I like guys and gals, not ALL guys and gals, but the ones I do like cause a physical change in my body. I like girls more than I like guys, but the attraction for men is still there. It is about 70/30 I suppose.

Do I wish that I wasn’t attracted to guys at all? Darn tootin’ as it would make my life so much easier. But I’ve learned to accept it, and what anyone else thinks or feels about it isn’t important, I am who I am, and if someone has a problem with it, that puts it on THEM, not on ME. which is a very polite way of saying they can go fuck themselves if they can’t accept me for who I am.

Life is about choices, your results may vary.

Deepness's avatar

Where do people get the idea that I am trying to change anyone? I could care less what a person chooses to do as long as they aren’t harming another person.

@dalepetrie Are you calling me a “homophobic fuck”? Lol. Furthest from the truth. I just tossed out a question for Fluther. There are plenty of people who throw out random questions on Fluther just to give the thought processes a good workout.

@DominicX I’m glad you don’t want to change. I never asked anyone to change. My question was and still is the same. Can a person change? Genuinely change? Has it ever happened before?

dalepetrie's avatar

@Deepness – if you’ll read the last line you’ll see I’m doing nothing of the sort. I said, and I quote, ”IF you do [actively try to convert someone into something they are not], you deserve to die a slow, painful death, you homophobic fuck.” I didn’t say you did that or thought that. But anyone who does think that, who would actively try to convert a person’s sexuality is a homophobic fuck who deserves to die a slow painful death. If it doesn’t apply to you, it shouldn’t offend you that I said it.

Haffi112's avatar

I think sexuality is a trigger thing that triggers in youth.

I’m an identical twin, I’m gay and my brother is straight. I’ve read a lot on the subject and most papers come to the conclusion that it’s not possible.

Being gay has got me thinking a lot and it has affected a lot of my ideals. Looking back I’m not sure if I would want to loose this experience. I think it made me a better person (at tolerating others and feeling sympathy towards minorities e.g.) but that is of course just my opinion :)

DrBill's avatar

If you believe a straight person can “turn” gay, it is only reasonable they can “turn” straight.

Jack79's avatar

@dalepetrie once again a wonderful answer, well worth the long read :)

TheCreative's avatar

@dalepetrie and @Deepness I understand both of your views. I know a friend who has actually changed his sexual preference. A friend of mine, who has always considered himself as straight (he loved girls i’m telling you), started experimenting a little. Now he’s crying worrying about what others will think of him like this. He changed. @dalepetrie You describe it as if a person has no control to “who they are.” As if certain tastes and preferences are engraved in his/her soul for good. A person can change who they are! There are people who have changed their “super favorite ice cream flavour.” Many people have “switched teams” even if they didn’t choose it. My point is that it’s possible.

dalepetrie's avatar

@TheCreative – my answer to people changing who they are is that they were what they are now all along but didn’t realize it, couldn’t admit it to themselves or what not. People don’t “turn” gay, they discover that they are gay, or come to terms with the fact that they are gay, or realize after doing what they thought was how you do it that they weren’t really being themselves. They don’t choose it, it chooses them, because it’s who they are.

Deepness's avatar

@dalepetrie Using your very same logic, it should be safe to say that maybe there are gay people who have a hidden hetero within them and that they were hetero all along and just didn’t know it.

Jack79's avatar

In theory yes, the problem is that our society (and parents) pushes us towards a certain direction from the day we are born. Personally, I can think of one such exception: I had a student whose mother wanted him to be a fashion designer. She wanted a girl and dressed him up as a girl, while at the same time treating her other son as a boy. The boy has grown up gay, but perhaps he’s straight all along and doesn’t know it yet. But it would be an extreme example. Most people are encouraged or even forced to be straight, so it can only be within that group that you find the odd one who would actually have been something else, given a chance.

dalepetrie's avatar

@Deepness – yes, I agree with that to a degree, though really, I probably didn’t flush that out quite well enough. I agree with the sexuality continuum idea…0 being completely hetero, 6 being completely homo, and 3 being equally bi, whereas everyone falls somewhere between 0 and 6. I think because it’s a continuum, meaning someone can be 0, 0.1, 0.01, 0.001, 1.038298, 4.289072673, 3.28740 or any number in there, there are infinite points on that line if you break it down far enough and I don’t think anyone can really truly ever know exactly what their # is (the # itself being an artificial construct in the first place). But to try to break it down into a few general situations, first, let’s look at @TheCreative‘s example, not the person specifically referenced, but the case of someone who thought they were straight and “developed” a taste for the same sex.

This person could be in general one of a couple things. First off, the person is definitely not a 0 or a 6. Now let’s say the person is somewhere between a 0 and a 3, let’s say a 2…mostly straight, but some gay desires. That person, let’s say it’s a man who has always been attracted to women. Well, one day, this 2 meets a man who just for whatever reason shows this guy why he’s a 2 and not a zero. And maybe he gets over his conceived notion of “what” he was and gives it a try, and likes it. Now, time will tell, but over the course of time, this person if he’s truly honest with himself will probably see 2 women that he finds attractive to every 1 man he finds attractive, or will spend ⅔ of the time he spends in his life fantasizing about women and ⅓ about men. This person is bi, with a strong preference towards women, even though maybe right now, in this period of self discovery, he thinks of himself as gay. Straight people tend to treat homosexuality (if they haven’t spent time trying to understand it), like some sort of disease…like once you do something gay, you’re gay, or like you’re a werewolf ‘he TURNED gay’...like the moon got full and he started wearing a scarf. Unless you understand it’s a continuum, it’s hard for a lot of people to conceptualize that something didn’t turn them gay or straight or what not, it was what was within them all along.

Now maybe this person was a 4 or even a 5, but they come from a conservative and/or religious background, or just an environment where there aren’t any gay people, and gays are spoken of derisively (that’s a pretty common environment unfortunately). Even if his upbringing isn’t staunchly conservative or evangelically religious in nature, it could still be an environment where homosexuality is looked down upon, made fun of and derided, or at very least treated like some sort of aberration or affliction. Because there is enough flexibility in this person’s sexuality that he is bound to find SOME women attractive, given the pre-ingrained idea that straight is what EVERYONE just is unless there is something wrong with them his mind might just as a defense mechanism try to shut out the homosexual stimulus, and only allow itself to be titillated by the women who possess the qualities that turn this particular person on in a woman. This person might just think he is really picky and that’s why 9 out of 10 of the women he sees don’t do ANYTHING for him. Then one day a man does something that catches him off guard and it helps him get in touch with who he really is. He may actually then begin to prefer men, and really if he’s close enough to a 6, wonder why he ever liked women in the first place, because comparatively speaking, his new sexual identity is so much closer to who he is that it is more fulfilling.

In some VERY extreme examples as I believe I pointed out earlier, you can see a person who may actually be a 6 or close, but who has ingrained within him such an aversion to the whole idea of homosexuality, such a disdain for it, maybe even thinks its a one way ticket to hell, that he will suffer through a hetero lifestyle because it is what is right or is what God wants. There are many religious hypocrites and family values zealots who are closet homos who can’t even admit it to THEMSELVES, and instead choose to see the occasions when they are tempted by the same sex as SATAN controlling them….if they can believe they are absolved of their free will, then they can willfully act in the way that truly suits them without bearing the weight of the spiritual consequences of their actions. People have an amazing power for self delusion.

Now to get back to @Deepness’ point, yes, you could very well find someone who was somewhere just to the left or right of the middle of the continuum, who self-identified as gay. Maybe it’s just a matter of that was the culture that caught their eye and appealed to them, maybe the first person they happened to fall for was of the same sex, whatever, and maybe they were self actualized enough to say to the world and themselves…I’m queer, I’m here, get used to it. And so, that is how they self identify, but then the right person of the opposite sex comes along one day, and it’s good, and they question their sexual identity. They may thing they were straight all along, perhaps because this new found facet of their sexuality is so appealing and fun (and hey, it would make life a hell of a lot easier in our society), that they feel, I was straight all along and didn’t know it. But really they’re likely some degree of bi, just like most humans are, I think there are probably very few people who are actually zeros and sixes….at best the might be .001s and 5.999s.

I think everyone is innately somewhere on that scale, and when we see examples of the overbearing mother and submissive father producing a gay son, or we see the mom who dresses up the one kid in girl’s clothing and he turns out gay, well we think that means there’s a societal component (the nature vs. nurture debate), but I think that’s wrong. I think “what” you are, i.e. exactly where you are on the preference scale, is just part of who, it’s who you are, it’s how you’re born, it’s your personal brain chemistry. The nurture part of the equation comes into play by helping you self-assign your sexual identity. A 2.5–3.5 boy who is treated like a girl by a mom playing dress up may self identify as gay, regardless of where he technically does belong on the scale, whereas the same boy might self identify as straight if he was constantly dressed up in more masculine attire. But he is the same person he would have been, because it’s a continuum, and the closer to the middle of the continuum you are, the more flexible your definition is of what turns you on, but because we live in a society which expects you to self identify at some point, we seek out our dominate preferences when we learn our sexual desires, and it may just be the first thing we are drawn to that we allow ourselves to be identified by. And if it feels right, it takes essentially a cognitive break via having something appeal to you that is opposite of your beliefs about yourself in order for you to really realize that there’s more to the picture than what you were seeing. And I think until our society begins to view sexuality as fluid rather than rigid, we will continue to have a lot of people living lives that don’t 100% suit them.

At least that’s my theory, and I could be wrong, it just seems to fit though, for me and every example I can think of.

CMaz's avatar

If you are “homosexual” then you realize that you are not. So then in that case you never were.
Then really you will never know for sure till the day you die. Living in a homosexual lifestyle.

Because until you realize that you were not ,you were.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@ChazMaz uhhh…yeah…not true

Likeradar's avatar

@ChazMaz I’m having a really hard time making sense out of those words you wrote. Can you clarify?
Are you saying there’s no such thing as homosexuality? Are you saying at death there’s some revelation of sexual preference? Totally confused.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

here we go again

TheCreative's avatar

@dalepetrie You certainly do have some good points. Hmm.

CMaz's avatar

I am saying, that it was stated that if you discover that you are no longer homosexual then it is the assumption you never were.

If that is the case, then that will always be a possibility till you take your last breath and are still gay.
Because the individual that has discovered they were not homosexual, till they figured out they were not, were totally convinced they were gay.

That being the case, it aint over till the fat lady sings.

TheCreative's avatar

@ChazMaz Wait, are you saying homosexuality is sort of a disease or illness? Nobody is actually born homo? Sorry just had trouble understanding.

TheCreative's avatar

@ChazMaz Sorry posted late. (Right after your post but meant to reply to other)

CMaz's avatar

Turn the homophobe radar off ok. ;-)

Where did you get that from?

Right back at ya. All is cool. :-)

TheCreative's avatar

@ChazMaz Sorry but your first post kinda got me all confused. I thought you were saying that it was an illness because there is no such thing and if someone thinks they are then something is wrong. Let’s just forget what I said okay? :)

CMaz's avatar

Ok. :-)

tiffyandthewall's avatar

i don’t think heterosexuals ‘turn’ into homosexuals, and i don’t think the vice versa is very likely either. it’s just a matter of attraction. i don’t think people turn, veer, drive down the other side of the road, or shift, in terms of sexuality.

CMaz's avatar

“its just a matter of attraction.”

Wouldn’t that then go against the laws of nature?

dalepetrie's avatar

I’ll trust the APA on this one.

fundevogel's avatar

@MacBean & @Simone_De_Beauvoir I don’t doubt that some people have fluid sexuality. But most people don’t seem that way. Perhaps sexual fluidity is something you either have of don’t.

I saw an oprah (I’m embarrassed to admit) where the guest was making a case for a graduated scale of sexuality. I think one end was 100% straight and the other was 100% gay. They indicated that each individual’s sexuality fell at a specific point. So some were just plain gay or straight, while others, were just primarily gay or straight. Then of course there were the folks at the middle that didn’t particularly favor one sex over the other, which would be as fluid as you could get.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@fundevogel that kind of Kinsey-esque scale is way out-dated, imo…hence why it’s on Oprah

Likeradar's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir Has any type of scale or anything taken its place? I always liked the idea of the Kinsey scale, and it made a lot of sense to me.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@Likeradar I’m sure there are scales but since I don’t believe in them, I haven’t researched them so much as I have a fluid sexuality circle or outside circle, so to speak

dannyc's avatar

They would be the same person, thus they would now be bi-sexual.

fundevogel's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir How is it out of date? Is there a more valid understanding of human sexual preference now? Could you point me to studies or literature?

I mentioned it because it sounded like you were basing your view of human sexuality specifically on your own perspective, which is an incomplete way to assess humanity as a whole. While I’m sure Kinsey was off on some stuff, he did conduct extensive studies which automatically gives him more information on the subject than those of us that only have our own limited experiences to judge by.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@fundevogel
my views on sexuality are shared by many people, people who don’t separate humanity into categories and therefore do not put people into studies which can be manipulated to explain a whole lot if a researcher really wants to…gay and straight are limiting categories, for me, an LGBT rights activist of over a decade and for many people I have taught, helped, talked with, etc. if you only assume there are two genders and if you are okay with the gender that you have then maybe gay or straight can describe you or the people you like…but if you are pansexual, fluid, queer, gender non-conformant, transgeder, intersex, etc. you don’t fit into the Kinsey scale, which consists of 6 boxes…our life should be viewed more openly…and his is the limited view, not mine…

fundevogel's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir
I never suggested that any sexual identity was invalid, simply that different ones existed. And I’m not sure how the sexual preferences you listed don’t fit onto the Kinsey scale. It’s seemed pretty inclusive to me. Perhaps you mean that people can move along the scale? I don’t think that would necessarily invalidate it, though it might modify it a bit.

As for studies, certainly, sometimes they are manipulated. But the point of a scientific study is that it has to be repeatable. So all the other scientists studying and conducting independent studies would all have to manipulate their own studies for a scientific consensus to be reached, and scientists love proving one another wrong way too much for that. People on the other hand can formulate and hold opinions without ever putting their beliefs through critical evaluation. And even if they do, often they don’t have the informational resources available that the scientific community has.

Labels, for whatever drawbacks they have, are a necessary part of human cognition. People do not have the brain power to evaluate everything independent of everything else. Labels provide shortcuts that allow us to process information more efficiently. Sometimes efficient isn’t the most accurate, but if it is accurate enough most of the time it does serve it’s purpose. You may not like it, but its use is wired into the human brain.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@fundevogel Look, I’m sure the Kinsey scale works for people who need it…it’s just that in the field of queer theory here in NYC, we consider the Kinsey studies to be historical, important, yes, but archaic…that’s all…and yes I do think people can move along sexuality, especially as they mature…but to me, queer doesn’t mean gay or a little gay or straight or whatever..I use the label queer for myself to mean non-straight…but I don’t identify as gay…or bisexual…so the Kinsey scale is out

fundevogel's avatar

ok, could you point me to where a I could read queer theory then?

DominicX's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir

You know, a person who is comfortable with their own gender doesn’t necessarily think there are only two genders. I acknowledge that there are more and there are people who don’t want to be labeled in any gender, but I am comfortable in my gender and I choose to label myself that way as I also choose to call myself “gay” since I’ve only ever been attracted to males.

DrBill's avatar

I think our six sexes are enough for any species.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@DominicX oh of course I do know that
you can put whatever label you want on yourself
as can I

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@DrBill well people don’t believe there are 6

DrBill's avatar

I only recognize the 6 of 18 identified, so I guess I’m bias that way

fundevogel's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir looks like a good read, I’m adding it to my booklist.

MacBean's avatar

I loved that book.

MacBean's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir Stone Butch Blues. I read it when I was still in the very beginning stages of figuring out where I stand in the gender spectrum. From the mini-review I wrote of it: “It was… not comforting by any means but still somehow… nice… to hear about these characters’ internal struggles. I know I’m not alone in my confusion and my issues but that doesn’t stop it from feeling that way sometimes. It’s good to be reminded that I’m not the first person who has thought and felt some of these things.”

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@MacBean well good! it’s a great book

SuckaFreeCitizen's avatar

I think labels limit and inhibit people way too much.

CMaz's avatar

Yes I agree, like you are smart, that is hot, stay off the ice, don’t drink the water, oh and being an America.

Noel_S_Leitmotiv's avatar

I’ve known more than one wasbian.

mowens's avatar

With human beings, anything is possible.

Violet's avatar

NO! A true homosexual can not just change their sexual orientation. They can repress it, or fake being straight, but can not just turn straight

CMaz's avatar

What is a “true” homosexual?

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@ChazMaz what’s a ‘true’ heterosexual? are you one?

CMaz's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir – I do luv you keeping tabs on me. :-)
Good to have the Pansexual police near by. :-)

I never use the word “true” when defining heterosexuality. The reason why I asked that question.

But to answer your question. I doubt it. I do have some pretty solid evidence pointing towards me staying heterosexual. But you never know, maybe one day I will? ;-)

People seem to flip flop back and forth on that issue. Hetro becoming homo. Homo becoming hetero.
As the saying goes it ain’t over till it is over.

fundevogel's avatar

It will be interesting to see what happens as the general public accepts homosexual relations into the mainstream. That will go a long way towards loosening the cultural and environmental influences on sexuality.

Violet's avatar

@ChazMaz – is a true homosexual that is 100% gay. (no possibility of just being bi). Like I am not a true straight, because I’m not 100% straight, I’m straight-ish.. lol

CMaz's avatar

LOL @Violet – GA!

Violet's avatar

@ChazMaz – I don’t know what GA means

dalepetrie's avatar

@Violet – FYI, GA = “Great Answer”

Violet's avatar

@dalepetrie – oh thank you, good to know

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