What do you think about young girls enhancing their sexual attributes?

I think it’s play when the 5 year old does it. It’s NOT when the 12 year old does it. I would have more concern if my daughter was 12 and doing it. I would not allow it at that age.

It is wrong. And, what you learn eventually becomes a “skill” later in life.
Advertising has been doing it for a long time. It desensitizes us, we become more laxed to it and eventually it spills onto our children. There is way too much “adult” behavior that our children have to take on.
Let them be children while they are children.

It being play, and as parents allowing that type of play into their life is wrong. There is not enough to distract and educate them that they need to find entertainment with sexualizing themselves?

It is a tragic statement about our society. There will be so much time in a chills life to understand sexuality. Plenty of time to learn and discover. I have never seen anything good come from parents that feel it is ok and non eventful to make their child into nothing more then eye candy.

I’m concerned about the parents that put their girls in these pageants. They either need help or their children taken away.

Two words for me. Poor parenting.

It depends on what you view as a sexual attribute. A discussion held here a little while ago about ear piercing led to opinions about earrings and sexuality. I think it’s fine for girls to wear earrings. But wearing belly shirts and mini skirts is a no no. As far as makeup goes, only some girly gloss until they’re 14.

I think an argument could be made that nearly all of our behavior can be attributed, on some level, to enhancing or displaying our genetic fitness—i.e., most of our behavior is underwritten by sex, whether we recognize it or not. So I would be careful to condemn implicitly sexual behavior, since I think that describes an awful lot of our behavior.

However, I would condemn children engaging in behaviors that are explicitly sexual and specifically sexual. Women wearing makeup, you could argue, is about being attractive to attract men for sex—but being attractive has a lot of other non-sexual benefits in our society. It makes women feel and therefore act more confidently. It makes people treat you more respectfully. It may confer some social capital.

Wearing a bikini, on the other hand, I tend to interpret as a performative declaration of sexuality. It is a uniquely public display of your body and seems inherently sexual.

I do agree that playing around and experimenting with sexuality is an important part of development, but I think this is more appropriately reserved for the post-pubertal teenage years. I see no advantage to encouraging or permitting younger children to do so.

Personally, I wouldn’t let a 4 or 5 year old dress in a manner that I wouldn’t let a 13 or 14 year old. If you buy a bikini for your 4 year old, how do you later forbid the bikini? If you buy a play make-up set for a 6 year old, how do you then go back and explain to an 11 year old that she shouldn’t be wearing make-up? Even clothing can be difficult—it’s hard to find clothes for girls that don’t have low slung waists, form-fitting styles, etc. Last fall I made the mistake of ordering my daughter’s school clothes online, and discovered when they were delivered that she couldn’t wear them without her lower back or midriff showing each time she moved (she’s 10, and at the time wore a size 8). Why on Earth are size 8 kids’ clothes being made like that?!

Some things I am OK with. Nail polish is fine with me. We have fun painting each other’s nails, and since she favors colors like purple or sparkly blue, it doesn’t look sexy. If she had long red nails, that would be a different matter. It just sends an entirely different message. Sometimes the two of us go to a nail salon and have manicures together, which she gets a huge kick out of. Luckily for me, none of these things are even a battle. My daughter is sort of a tomboy, isn’t interested at all in make-up, and hasn’t expressed any interest (yet) in dressing to attract the attention of the opposite sex. She does have her ears pierced, but I can’t imagine anyone would view her ladybug earrings as sexual adornment. Maybe that’s just me.

I have a cousin whose daughter is a little younger than mine. She wears makeup at home all of the time, but isn’t allowed to wear it out of the house. Last time we were there, she gave my daughter a “makeover,” that looked hideous. My daughter looked in the mirror and burst out laughing. She wiped it all off, and turned down her cousin’s request to do it again. I wonder if my daughter has picked up on my tendency to not really care about things like that, while her cousin is following her mother’s tendency to be more “womanly.” There’s nothing wrong with that, but I think age 9 is a little young for it.

I have to be honest, I find it very creepy to see very young girls (ie: the ages you mentioned) dressing and acting like little adults. I remember once seeing a girl who could have been no older than 7 years old wearing a Playboy tracksuit (complete with Playboy written across the backside of the tracksuit bottoms). Firstly, I didn’t realise that Playboy made clothing for very young people and secondly, what the bloody hell was her mother thinking letting her dress lke that based on what Playboy stands for.

Of course as a young girl I used to experiment with mums make up and sometimes my mum or grandmother would put a little bit of lipstick on me (if I asked) to make me feel grown up but I was never covered in the stuff.

Beauty pageants, in my opinion, seem to be mostly for the parents benefit than the childrens. From what I have seen they certainly seem to get more pleasure out of it than the kid.

I will set boundaries for my daughter(s). Of course some things will automatically seem sexual to me, because I am an adult…but there are some things that to me aren’t worth the fight. I don’t mind bikinis, but I don’t believe make up should be worn by little children. Play make up is one thing, but a 12 year old does not need lipstick or anything. I’d even go as far as to say she’d have to wait until 16 to wear make up.
I get worried about the tween age, when she’ll want the popular clothes from stores like The Limited Too. http://www.shopjustice.com/girls-clothing/clothes I know the clothes aren’t sexual, but it’s the age when children want to be adults, but still children…it’s confusing. For me, as a parent, I just want to teach my child to have respect for themselves and others. I want to teach them good morals, and that they are strong being themselves.

it’s gross. If you caught a man with pictures of girls dressed the way some parents allow their tween girls to dress, he’d be arrested and have to inform his neighbors he lived near them.

that said, when a little girl dresses “like mommy” or whatever, it is mostly innocent. most children that age have no idea about sex or sexuality, they’re simply mimicking, as was said earlier. but i’d still, were i a parent, limit it, and be very careful about what i did and said around them.

when i think about kids like Jon Benet Ramsey and the like, where the parents have them putting on wigs, etc. it’s disgusting. it’s borderline kiddie porn imo. Children are asexual, for all intents and purposes, until puberty. to try to change that is unnatural.

@eponymoushipster For someone who has no kids, you have excellent insight. 10 GA’s to you if I could.

@jbfletcherfan thanks

I’m separating some of these ages, 5–12 is a pretty broad group – lots of changes in those years. To me, if a 5 year old is insisting upon wearing lip gloss – and getting away with it, look at the mama. 10 to 1, she’s coated in it. While the mom might think it’s cute, she’s going to have hell to pay when she’s trying to tell her 10 year old that she doesn’t need to wear makeup, yet. Some parents (aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents) think that the makeup thing is cute because they want to be like mom or whoever they are trying to emulate, but they fail to see the implications on the later years.

When a tween wants to wear these things, I swear, I want to yell at the parents when I see them allowing it. They are children, they should not be dressing as older teens or women in their twenties. I swear, it’s like someone put childhood on speed and forgot how important all those stages really are.

As far as those things like tattoos and piercings and such – I have tattoos. My daughter is not allowed to have anything until she is legal age and until she can pay for them, herself. In fact, my husband and I both have them, and we discourage her from rushing out and getting one in her early adult life. She likes them, she sees them as a form of art and at one point, was really wanting one, as soon as she could get one. Now, she is getting that it’s a lifelong decision and tastes change, so maybe, just maybe, she should listen to her mom and dad and wait.

If a mom has one, like me, I see it as the mom’s responsibility (and the dad’s) to educate the child and also explain the consequences of having a tattoo (or piercings). Like people judging you on the tattoo or where it is located on your body. Like people furthering the derogatory name for something, without regard to how it impacts others. That’s okay – we talk to our children and help them understand that sometimes, people just need to call other people names, or assign derogatory names to things – it’s just the way people are, unfortunately. We may not like it, but it’s just words. If it makes them feel better or more superior, whatever.

I think kids should be kids for as long as possible – young girls are becoming more and more sexualized especially by companies that are not making up the ‘tween’ market – a good book to read is ‘Packaging Girlhood’ by Lamb & Brown

I think it’s wrong! Women should be seen for what they want to be seen for! Children should be seen as children!

Man, I’m having some problems.

What is specifically sexual in nature. We put little girls (infants, even) in bikinis and short skirts, but when a certain age is reached, it becomes sexual. How about shaving? My friends of immigrant parents weren’t allowed to shave until 18, because shaving was correlated with sex? All that did was make my friends feel different. It had nothing to do with sex.

Just because you have beliefs that bikinis are sexual does not mean everyone does, or that anyone has to abide by your ideas.

Simple, blame the media, blame the consumers, blame entertainment. Television, magazines and pop singers prone sex and money. Then you have the parents… Some are “too busy” to provide their children with good fundamental values… And some are just under the influence of the market itself. Listen to Britney spears, listen to rap calling women “bitches” and “hoes”, and talking about women as being sexual objects… It’s ridiculous…

@cak I can remember being a kid and wanting to wear makeup like my mum did, every so often my mum would let me wear a little bit of lipstick if I was wearing a pretty dress or something because she didn’t see the harm in it. Sometimes this can be cute, in moderation and depending on why the parent allows it. My mum didn’t encourage it but if I asked every now and then she would put lipstick on my lips, not much, just a bit to humour me more than anything else. There were no implications for me, it was done in innocence and as an adult now, I can honestly say that I do not have problems with body image or my appearance. I wear very little make up on a daily basis. It was just seen as dressing up, no different to when (and I’m sure every woman can relate to this!) I used to try and walk in my mums stilletos because that’s what my 6 year old self thought pretty ladies and princesses did.

What I am trying to say is, I think there is a big difference between this type of make up wearing youngster and the likes of Jon Benet Ramsey.

@tinyfaery For me, as a parent, deciding what is “too sexy” for a child is simply based on the majority perception of the environment I live in. That, of course, will vary from place to place and culture to culture.

One reason I don’t want my young daughter to dress and act older is because she will then be treated like she’s older. It’s like that stupid TV show where they have actors in a bar do things like slip a drug into a woman’s drink. Will the onlookers say something to the woman? If the woman was dressed in a sexy manner, they were less likely to alert her to what her “date” had done.

If my daughter, at age 14, goes around dressing like a sexual being, she will be treated like a sexual being. That may not be fair, but it’s an inescapable part of life. If she looks like she’s older because of her clothes and make-up, there will be an assumption about her behavior. At 14, she may not be ready for that kind of attention. If she’s going to choose to look like an older girl, she will need to know how to correct or deal with any misinterpretations that arise. She may feel the need to “act the part” and do things she isn’t ready for. Or that I’m not ready for, haha! I’m sure many people can look at a young girl dressed in revealing clothes with adult make-up and know that she may not actually be looking for attention, but a slightly older boy at a party might not be able to make that distinction.

Only in America. In a land where it is forbidden to sunbath naked/topless and nudity isn’t shown to children.. Teens got to know a different example of beautiful by the photo-shopped media and the plastic porn. There they truly manipulated a man’s sexual instinct, they tricked it into being attracted to something that is not possible by nature.

On young people: Should be forbidden!
On fully grown adults: Shouldn’t be a matter of money-will-buy-you-anything but should only be available to woman who’ve had breast cancer or who truly suffer from their bodies (preferably not just appearance-wise).

It’s hard to draw the line. My sister allowed her daughters to wear what ever they wanted and dress any way they wanted. I don’t like make-up on a pre-teen, but that’s just me. I’m so glad I didn’t have any girls.

My son was a performer and wore make up at a very young age, but he always took it off before leaving the staging area.

A parent should teach their child(ren) that he or she is beautiful without putting on the make-up.
Adult women who wear make-up do so because they are suffering from an inferiority complex and deep down believe that they are not pretty.
Parents should also teach the little girls that make-up clogs their pores, killing off skin cells and will later cause them to be quite hideous in their appearance, even with make-up.

@Zendo no, not everyone that puts on make up suffers from an inferiority complex

@Leanne1986 – Exactly. In moderation. I played in my mom’s shoes. I wore her slip over my clothes and dug into her jewelry box and put some lipstick on – played – not wore them on a daily basis – out of the house.

There are people that allow their young girls to wear makeup, dress a bit too old for their age and then turn around a few years later and tell them it’s not appropriate clothing for them, they are dressing “too old.” The child wants to know why it’s a problem and when the rules changed, because it was okay a few years ago, when it was allowed to be worn as more than just play.

I think there is a huge difference between this and pageant type of things. My problem with pageant, they aren’t okay with a 6 year old looking like a 6yr old. They want makeup, full hair – big hair, false teeth in – to cover the missing baby teeth. Who does that? What 6 year old spends hours having their hair and makeup done and fake tans? To me, there is a huge difference between play time at home and pageant times. With that said, I’m not going to dog people that participate in pageant, it’s just not my cup of tea. I know there are benefits – scholarship money, as a prize, is wonderful. I just wish they would be okay with a child looking their age.

All I have to say is that shows like “Toddlers and Tiaras” are made for pedophiles. There’s a difference between a child choosing to play dress-up and how they dress little girls on that show. It’s disgusting and extremely disturbing.

@DrasticDreamer I do hate that show, yes

@DrasticDreamer @Simone_De_Beauvoir I hate that show also, and I have been involved in the planning and staging of “honorable”, charity beauty shows for children. The rules do not allow for any “enhancements” of any kind.

@YARNLADY Good for you! It’s about time someone did something like that. Although, I like the idea of showcasing a child’s creativity, imagination and things of that kind more than focusing on looks. That’s me wishing the world was perfect though, which I know tends not to be realistic, usually. :-/

@Simone_De_Beauvoir Then why are they painting over their natural features?

@Zendo I don’t go anywhere w/o my face being made up and I definitely do not have an inferiority complex lol. It’s quite the opposite (if you haven’t noticed)

Also, it’s not as much “painting over” as it is enhancing and defining.

@Zendo Even little children can believe they are ugly and would look better with make-up on. This is what they have learned from the world they grow up in, and as @Facade points out, when they are taught how to properly use it, make up can enhance their looks, not paint over anything. Any performer can tell you there is a difference, based on the use of the make up.

I wouldn’t say I “paint over” my face when I put make-up on. Except when I have a zit, and then I totally paint over it. I still look like me, but with more noticeable eyelashes, a more even complextion, and a bit more color to my cheeks. The only pigment I have is in the form of freckles, so hell yeah, I slap some make-up on before I head out the door!

@Zendo there are many answers – they think it’s fun, they do it out of convention, society expects it…you can always ask it as a fluther question to see more

@Facade Why do you think women need to enhancing and define their faces?

I have no idea, and honestly don’t really care to know.

@Facade ”...don’t really care to know.”

That’s being ignorant. The more you know, the further you’ll go.

I have nieces I don’t allow them to wear make-up or dress like adults. They are 15. I’m an over protective uncle. Yes, I am.

at this point in time, I have more important things to worry about than why I have the desire to wear makeup.

@Facade I’m sure that’s true and may it always be so, in that you shouldn’t at all worry…but @Zendo was just asking, you know…

Indeed. This was in no way an attack on you, nor on any woman who wears make-up. I loves women, whether they wear cosmetics or no…

I need to put the “defensive person disclaimer” at the beginning of all my posts. my apologies.

If they overdo it they actually become less attractive in my opinion.

@Zendo I don’t wear much makeup (most of the time I only wear Mascara) but when I do it’s certainly not because I have an inferiority complex. Enhancing ones beauty is completely different to trying to paint over ones natural features (which, I agree, some women do). It’s no different to choosing to wear flattering clothes to look nice when you are in public.

What do you think enhancing ones beauty actually means, @Leanne1986?

i think that when a little girl is playing dress up, she is not asking for attention from older men. she’s being a little girl, playing ‘grown up’.
it makes me really sad when i see little girls being pushed into pageants and heels and makeup and tanning beds by their parents, because that is exploitative. when she is doing it because it’s something she thinks is fun, there’s not a big problem, but there is still a line that shouldn’t be crossed. a simple 2 piece bathing suit? not a big deal. a shirt that says “sexy” or something? that’s pretty repulsive. it’s more about intent, but there are still boundaries.
like i said in the tramp stamp thread, i don’t think the ‘tramp stamp’ itself is a big deal. if the tattoo itself wasn’t obscene, and she wasn’t wearing trampy clothes to reveal it, it’s just an innocent placement, until little girls are taught that the back is a ‘private part’.

@Zendo It certainly doesn’t mean that I have a complex about the way I look which is what you are trying to accuse me and other make up wearing women of. I know what my attractive features are and so SOMETIMES (like I said I rarely wear makeup) I like to make them even more striking. I am very happy with the way I look with or without makeup and it irritates me when people (especially men!) claim that because some women wear make up we must all have complexes.Not true. Like I said, to me, it’s no different than choosing to wear flattering clothes.

Oh sure. Did you know that red lipstick and red blush is specifically designed to make the women appear as if she is preparing for sex? When a women is sexually stimulated, blood rushes to those areas.

@Zendo yes I do know that, for one…and did you know guys have hard-ons for the same reason?

Indeed. But we cannot paint a woody on like women paint arousal on their faces.

@Zendo look I have my own problems with make up and women having to use them but what exactly is yours about it? do you think make up is deceiving? or is this a feminist angle for you?

I have no problem with kissing plastic lips, nor do I have a problem with the fact that women are destroying their faces by clogging their pores with the stuff, so that when they are 40 they will look gawdawful ugly no matter how much of the gloss they use.
Why you take offense at my answers and why you become so defensive is beyond me.
Years ago, when I was dating the model, Angie, she used to tell me how women have helped create a billion dollar cosmetic industry with their insecurity over their own beauty. She said using the cosmetics was most certainly an admission of their insecurity and actual fear of not being attractive.
My slant was that they must have been taught at an early age that they are inherently plain.
Another interesting fact is the idea that women need so desperately to look alike. To not be different. With everyone wearing make-up, they can all fit in to a sort of group of similarly painted women.
Why are you so defensive about my answers? It is really funny to see. Is ark colicky? Jean Paul not performing well?

@Zendo I don’t believe I was offended – I was asking for more details into your offensive remarks, actually – and yes the industry is fueled by women’s insecurities but those insecurities are also fueled by men and men’s expectations of what women should look like – both major genders support these expectations or the industry wouldn’t be booming, you’re right…and your attacks on my family – pretty f-ed up, I gotta say…you, shellanswerman (someone who pretends to never have heard of wis.dm but who is in fact from there and not a welcome guest whatsoever at gazebo or erudition or anyplace else, you troll) are the bitter one.

@Zendo I think it all depends how women use make up (ie: how much they wear, what colours etc). I agree that some women use make up to deal with insecurities but people do a lot of things to deal with insecurities it doesn’t mean that we are all doing it for the reasons your ex girlfriend, Angie and you seem to think.

Personally, I was NEVER made to feel plain (quite the opposite actually) and I never have. Call me vain but, for the most part I very much like the way I look and don’t feel the need to wear make up but sometimes, I like to wear make up. I use it as an accessory rather than a must!

Please don’t tar us all witrh the same brush (no pun intended), I get the feeling that your opinions are only based on something a previous model girlfriend said and let’s be honest, of course she isgoing to feel that way seeing as she worked in an industry that made money from peoples insecurities.

i’m coming to this discussion late as usual. i am going to respond anyway. i think that a lot of young girls that i see at malls and stores dress like hookers. i have a daughter that is two, and no, i don’t dress her like that. i see young girls in tight halters, in the hot weather, tight, low cut tee shirts, waistline of their jeans below their stomachs (sometimes with stomachs hanging over). some young girls are what we used to call “built” and i think it is probably alluring to older men. i am not a square or a prude by any means, but i think young girls should not be allowed to dress this way. girls in pageants just look fake, and not like little girls at all. to compete in pageants, it seems like if they don’t do all the fake stuff with the hair, teeth, tans, they have no chance of competing, and that’s a shame. it’s like saying a regular, pretty, talented little girl is no better than a fake, made up one.

i see zendo is no longer part of fluther but to comment on what he said, i think many women wear makeup to make themselves look a little more polished, which can be beneficial for a professional woman. not to look painted and made up, but to look more professional. when you see a photo of a high ranking corporate executive woman, she always has makeup on. i think, for me at least, when i don’t wear makeup i look like i just woke up.

Historically speaking there isn’t any problem at all.

I personally would rather my kids not want to wear make-up because I would want them to feel beautiful enough to not wear it. I wouldn’t mind them wearing bikinis though, I have no problem with them expressing themselves, I wouldn’t tell them they can’t wear make-up, just that I would rather them not because I think it takes from natural beauty.

Fact from fiction, truth from diction. When it comes to the US it is like a man standing before a mirror, who once he turns from it forgets what he looks like. One the surface society puts out this illusion that beauty is not as important as personality. That sex is something special and almost sacred. Below the surface, where the real deal lies, it is about the sex and beauty, and that beautiful people are sexier. Thus get to engage in more sex. One evening just take note of how many commercials use sexual overtones or innuendo to sell their products. Anything from gum, eye glasses, burgers, etc are sold with the tinge of sex. The prevailing thought, all the so called dorks, dweebs, and geeks are unattractive. I am an advocate that every little girl should use what Mother Nature gave her before Father Time takes it away, but in the right measure at the right time. Pageant parents putting their girls in sophisticated gowns, fake tans and make up I have a hard time understanding why that is needed for 9 year olds and earlier. Then there are the pseudo teen modeling sites. Some are run by the parents others I guess are more organized operations. If it were not money making I doubt the parents would allow anyone to bust pics of their daughter the way the spreads are in those galleries. And try to have the person arrested much less.
http://www.dreamgirl-alina.com/?page=preview
http://www.absolute12.biz/preview.htm
http://www.absolute12.biz/preview2.htm
http://www.dreamgirl-eugenia.com/?page=preview
These sites seem to fly back to what you are asking. I don’t know if these sites are a serious attempt to get their kid noticed by the modeling world, but if they were older in many of the poses they struck, people might think hoochie or titillating. Heaping on top of that the hypocrisy that one should not see gals that young as sexual, but someone is looking to keeps these sites going. They maybe legal but it would get me slapped by my fiancée if I were a member of any.

@Hypocrisy_Central is part of debunking hypocrisy using the same intro line, over and over? because if so, i think im happier with the hypocrisy.

@Hypocrisy_Central Those sites scare me.

@daloon agree, that’s horrible.

@daloon They are real and as hypocritical as they are, within the bounds of the law as writen even if not at the spirit of it. They are not showing anything they can’t show, but any parent finding stuff of their daughter like that on a thumb drive she has and said a school counselor or the karate coach took them, WWIII would jump off, but if they are getting big bucks themselves I guess it is OK to take them or let others do it.