Social Question

dpworkin's avatar

Obama's Health Care Reform Plan: Threat, or Menace?

Asked by dpworkin (26915 points ) August 12th, 2009

Apparently, the Obama health bill has a provision that elderly women are to be impregnated by Negroes, and forced to have a late-term abortion before they are executed by the death squads. Discuss.

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31 Answers

Harp's avatar

And all at taxpayer expense! Desecrating the innocent is better left to the private sector, IMHO.

dpworkin's avatar

How foolish of me not to have pointed out that these will be socialist,Soviet style Nazi death squads.

Harp's avatar

No, that part’s just a rumor

galileogirl's avatar

All I want is my America back! (heart rending sobs)

dalepetrie's avatar

I’ve personally been enlisted to assassinate Trig Palin. Obama is going to actually go to people’s houses and steal all their money just so he can pay me to do it. It’s a good gig, I’ve been unemployed for 6 months and I’ve always wanted to go to Alaska! Of course, I wish I could have gotten one of those new stimulus jobs for lazy people…a friend of mine is getting 200k a year to test mattresses, and I know another guy whose job it is to sip Latte. I personally can’t wait for the OEI to kick in (Obama Eugenics Initiative)...it’s going to be great to have a US ethnically cleansed of all hard working real Americans so we can all just sit on our asses and watch our government provided big screen TVs after we take all the money from the rich people and throw them in prison camps.

missingbite's avatar

@pdworkin It sounds like you have your mind made up. Now, why don’t you read the bill since you seem to already know so much. It may change your mind. And remember, we know Obama is for a single payer system even though he and Congress are trying very hard to make us believe he doesn’t. Jokes about elderly being impregnated by negroes shows your lack of maturity.

janbb's avatar

That’s change I can believe in!

drdoombot's avatar

Some people just don’t know a joke when they see one…

COUGH @missingbite COUGH

marinelife's avatar

I just can’t laugh at this. People are beyond whacked out.

galileogirl's avatar

@missingbite We can’t even get the legislators to read the bill and it’s their job. Since you have obviously read it, How about giving a us condensed version and be sure you give us the page number that putsa single payer system in place. Never mind-it is right after the section requiring euthenasia and right before the section on forced abortions. @pdworkin is really a Republican Rep and those are the talking points he was given to talk about

missingbite's avatar

@galileogirl No need to give you a page number. Just read the bill. Also, google Obama single payer system. Follow the link to youtube. That is what he would like to see. Just listen to his own words. Oh wait, he must have changed his mind.

Ivan's avatar

BE AFRAID

dalepetrie's avatar

@missingbite -

Sarcasm (definition) – a form of humor that uses sharp, cutting remarks or language intended to mock, wound, or subject to contempt or ridicule.

What @pdworkin is using his sharp, cutting remarks to mock, wound, or subject to contempt or ridicule are 3 particular pieces of information:

1) Many whites in this country are still afraid that black men just want to rape white women, or alternately that we shouldn’t “cross-breed” to avoid diluting our Aryan blood….these are ridiculous, contemptuous thoughts which DO still exist in America, and which some, not by any means a majority, but some use as an underlying reason to distrust Obama

2) Obama is pro-choice, and pro-lifers have gone out of their way to paint Obama as a baby killer. There was an instance where as an Illinois Senator, he did not support a bill which outlawed late term abortions. The reason he did NOT support it was NOT because he wants to kill babies, but because the LANGUAGE in the bill would have allowed anti-abortion forces to sue to make ALL abortions illegal based on that law. Yet many people have been led to believe in the ridiculous, contemptuous notion that Obama is a baby-killer.

3) Foes of health care reform have sought to kill the bill by any means necessary, actually confusing the privately based health care system combined with both private and public health INSURANCE options as a bill to change out entire health CARE system to a single payer, government run system (which Obama does favor, yes, but the bill CLEARLY does not). And they then take the worst examples of every country which has any public component to either their health care or health insurance systems and point out the horror stories (while not representing the other side, which often boils down to, according to the World Health Organization, these systems ALL beat ours HANDS DOWN). And to sell their point, they appeal not to reason and logic, but to peoples’ emotions, convincing them that because in some publicly financed health care systems (again, not even KIND of what we’re talking about), some people have been denied treatment because they are too sick to make treatment worthwhile, to actually acuse Obama of running Death Squads. Sarah Palin herself said that under Obama’s plan, her Down’s baby would be denied the care he needs and he would be subjected to bureaucratic death squads.

These are PREPOSTEROUS notions which @pdworkin was CLEARLY sarcastically mocking, as rightly he should.

Ivan's avatar

To be fair, I think missingbite fully understood the sarcasm of this question.

missingbite's avatar

@dalepetrie I knew he was being sarcastic. The problem I have is that too many people don’t “read between the lines.” If anyone thinks this bill isn’t the first step to single payer system, then do some research. Find out what would happen to you under this plan if you quit your job that has health insurance to start your own small business. Hint Hint, you either go under government plan or face a fine. That is one small step toward single payer.

galileogirl's avatar

@missingbite Obama might like to see a single payer system and I woild like to see 30 again but neither of those things are in the currently proposed legislation.

dpworkin's avatar

@missingbite? Irony deficiency, hon?

ratboy's avatar

Old white ladies—take one for th team.

SuperMouse's avatar

@dalepetrie can I go with you to Alaska? I’m quiet and I don’t eat much. That is if I don’t get one of those plum positions traveling around the country asking old people how they want to die and getting them on the schedule.

@missingbite you first post asserts that Obama is backs a single payer plan, then you go on to say that Obama’s plan is a small step on the slippery slope to a single payer plan. Which is it? It seems to me that what constitutes reading between the lines is drawing sweeping conclusions and doing whatever is necessary to make this Obama’s Waterloo. Anyone who thinks all of this propaganda is about anything other than politics is sorely mistaken.

dalepetrie's avatar

“no need to give you a page number, just read the bill….”

Thanks, I needed a laugh. What a delightful way of saying, “I don’t know what I’m talking about”.

First off, there are 2 bills, a House version and a Senate version, the two have not yet been reconciled, there is not even a final bill ready to be read yet.

Second, we don’t need to read these rough drafts to know a summary of what’s in them (which right now is that one contains a “public option” and one does not). Why not? Because we have the President who asked Congress to write the bill, we have the Congressmen who drafted the bill, we have the other Congressmen who have read the bill and we have the media who have read and disseminated the bill and not a single one of them even kind of claims that this bill puts “single payer” into place.

The problem however, as I understand it is that it “paves the way” for a single payer option, but you don’t really even attempt to support your slippery slope argument to show how exactly this even could happen.

But let me take a guess. You figure that because a plan with a public option will result in the public option being cheaper because it is financed by tax dollars, that everyone will bail out of their private plans into the public plan and that groundswell of support will lead to single payer.

What strikes me as funny about this argument though is that it’s generally the free market Republicans who think that the free market will always be superior and competition will always drive any waste out of the system who think that a public option will somehow manage to be sustainable long enough to drive these robust free traders out of business. It’s logic that doesn’t add up, but let’s for a second assume that somehow we manage to finance this costly, bureaucratic system for long enough without bankrupting our government to drive free enterprise out of the health care system altogether, OK, great, let’s go with that.

My first point is, even IF health care were PROVIDED by the government, why would that be a bad thing? It is provided by the government in several countries which get far better marks from the WHO than we do on their ability to provide a strong health care system which serves the public and does not break the back of government. Indeed, we ourselves give publicly funded health CARE to our Veterans, and you don’t generally see them deciding to go somewhere other than the VA for their care. Yeah, the VA has problems, but try to find some veterans who aren’t glad that it exists then get back to me.

Second, the big problem is, what you’re scared of is a publicly RUN health care system…that is what people are all worried about…it’s going to be like the post office or the DMV (and hey, I can drop something in a mailbox at my house and get it to the other end of the country for 44 cents, if my health care could provide me with that kind of value, I’d gladly wait in a longer line when I went to the clinic), or it’s going to be some horror show where when costs get out of hand, we’re just going to have to stop covering the sick. But how’s this…ask someone who is uninsured right now who has a chronic (read: expensive) disease if he’d like a public option…I’m quite sure he’d consider the risks of going without say his diabetes meds as far less troubling than the idea that maybe some day the government would say he’s too expensive to take care of. Indeed, what Obama has said ALL ALONG is he wants a system that will cover ALL Americans, for which no one can be turned down for pre-existing conditions. And now opponents are saying he’s pushing for exactly THAT…a system that would deny people health care for pre-existing conditions. The rhetoric is positively Orwellian.

Third, what is in the bill is NOT publicly financed health care, but what’s more, what you’re worried about and what you SAY you’re worried about are TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THINGS. What opponents are fighting against is Publicly provided health care, and you say that because Obama says he favors a single payer system, he will lead us to a single payer system. But the disconnect is this….a single payer health INSURANCE system is NOT the same thing as publicly financed health care. Canada has a single payer system…the government collects money from individuals and businesses and uses it to pay for the citizens’ health care directly, but they use PRIVATELY run clinics and hospitals to PROVIDE the care. THAT is what a single payer system would do…it would effectively replace the employer based deduction system wherein the employers are responsible for providing health INSURANCE (something too many companies can’t even afford to do anymore), and it would take all that money from essentially the same sources…some from employers, some from citizens, and pool all the money, and use it to pay for health care services provided by private clinics and hospitals at rates the government could negotiate in order to create competition which currently doesn’t exist. Even IF we went to a fully single payer system, it is NOT publicly provided health care. France on the other hand has publicly provided health care, they clinics are state run. They have the #1 health care system in the world according to the WHO. We have the #37.

Yes, Obama said all along he favors single payer, and so do I, and so do tens of millions of Americans, and even some conservatives realize that privately run health care which has to compete for public funding is a FAR better system than we have now, one which would lead to cheaper, better care for Americans than the system which leaves 1/6th of our population without insurance, and 17,000 people a WEEK filing bankruptcy because of medical bills they can’t afford.

I suggest it is you @missingbite, who needs to do some reading.

galileogirl's avatar

@ratboy Only if we can go hand in hand

ml3269's avatar

We in Europe have that for decades… and it is no threat, nothing strange… just a good thing to handle health care…

kevbo's avatar

@gallileogirl, re: your sound bite above All I want is my America back! (heart rending sobs), sayeth the Daily Show’s Senior Black Correspondent Larry Wilmore, “Go tell that to the Indians.”

dpworkin's avatar

Let me just interject my thanks to you guys for understanding that I wanted to start a serious discussion, and for your penetrating and thoughtful posts. I’m new here, but I’m learning what a valuable place this is.

wundayatta's avatar

Wow! I hope this isn’t turning serious.

—And @missingbite acts as if the slippery slope towards single payer is a bad idea. Couldn’t be further from the truth. It’s time to stop subsidizing the health insurance industry with free government handouts. Our taxes are too high as it is without giving away money to health insurers. I suppose @missingbite is just cool with that. He probably has a lot of stock in health insurance companies.

Anyway, as everyone knows, Obama wants to stop all government funding for health care. No health care for the elderly, no health care for the poor, no health care for our boys overseas. Not only that, but he wants to turn over the policing of our nation to the Congolese army. He wants Korea to run our energy department. Myanmar will be in charge of the diplomatic corps.

I dunno. Why can’t we get government out of our private lives? Why can’t we let garbage pile up in the streets; our enemies all over the world invade us; let companies pollute our cities to the point where we can’t see each other on a good day; oh, yeah, and let people commit abortions on themselves with coat hangers and carry guns openly so we can have a “polite” society.

Someone give me two good reasons why we shouldn’t do these things? Anyone?

Grisaille's avatar

I heard they were going to make us all get homomarried to Atheist, vegetarian Mexicans.

True story.

dannyc's avatar

Probably neither. The idea needs refinement, some objective looks at systems across the world, and a solution. The present rhetoric will lead to a lousy outcome, which given the diatribe is predictable.

augustlan's avatar

Thanks for the laugh, and the great discussion!

mattbrowne's avatar

Every first world country should be able to offer health insurance to every citizen.

filmfann's avatar

Think of the Children! Won’t someone think of the children???

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