General Question

mowens's avatar

Are you happy with Obama so far?

Asked by mowens (8403points) August 17th, 2009

Did you vote for him? If so, would you again?

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

49 Answers

teh_kvlt_liberal's avatar

I think he’s all right
Better than Bush, but then again, even a tub of lard can be a better president than Bush…

Noel_S_Leitmotiv's avatar

No, but i never expected to be.

mowens's avatar

Me personally, I am against anything that costs 1 trillion dollars, and I know a lot of people that are upset over the healthcare issue that voted for him.

RandomMrdan's avatar

I voted for him, but I honestly have not been paying too much attention to have a valid opinion on how well he’s doing. I hear good things from my liberal friends, and of course, I hear all sorts of negative things from my conservative friends from the military and elsewhere.

When his 4 years are up, I will reflect back on what he said he would accomplish when he got into office. Depending on how much he got done from his agenda, I’d probably vote for him again.

Qingu's avatar

I’m happy with him. I’d obviously like to see a less watered-down health care reform plan, and I’d like to see less hawkishness in Afghanistan and more movement towards repealing DADT and gay rights.

But I’m willing to give him more time on these issues, because he does, after all, have to deal with the political reality of an incredibly stupid American populace.

Qingu's avatar

@mowens, out of curiosity, were you against the Iraq War?

How about World War 2?

jbfletcherfan's avatar

Absolutely. It took us a long time to get in this mess & it’s going to take an even longer timne to get us out. One term isn’t going to do it. He’s a people person. He’s got to start somewhere. There’s no perfect answer to anything. I think he sees the failing ways of the government & will try to turn our country around. I’m behind him 100%.

mowens's avatar

I knew I shouldnt of said that, It was sarcasm and it is hard to convey on the internet. My point is, a good friend of mine is a dermatologist in his residancy. If the healthcare thing passes, he plans to quit being a doctor, because it wouldnt be worth the effort.

As far as the Iraq war goes, I am neither against it nor am I for it.

Do I think it should have been over years ago? Yes.
Do I support our troops? Yes.
Do I think any one person is to blame for it not going as expected? No.

marinelife's avatar

Yes, very much so.

The changes are impressive so far. For example, a concrete plan for closing Guantanamo, lifting of the ban on stem cell research, stimulus spending on infrastructure repair and improvement, the Fair Pay Act for Women, moving to end the war in Iraq, refocusing military efforts on Afghanistan and Pakistan, the place from which the 9/11 terrorists came, and a load of other foreign policy moves.

Here’s just one example with details: The U.S. Conference of Mayors cites a real sea change in the this Administration’s willingness to work with them, particularly these accomplishments:

“Moreover, many of the policies President Obama has enacted have been major
priorities for the Conference for many years including the Children’s Health
Insurance Program Reauthorization, the Making Homes Affordable Program, the
Administration’s plan to boost credit flow to small businesses, a focus on
High Speed Rail, the Community Oriented Police program (COPS) and HIV/AIDS
Prevention and Awareness.

The Administration also included an Energy Efficiency and Conservation Block
Grant – conceived by The U.S. Conference of Mayors and the top priority in the
mayors’ Ten Point Plan—in the Recovery Bill. This Grant positions cities
to receive an unprecedented $2.8 billion, and supports mayoral efforts to meet
the goals of the Mayors’ Climate Protection Agreement, which commits cities to
meet Kyoto Protocol Standards by 2012. Nearly 950 mayors have already signed
the agreement and are working to make their cities energy efficient.”

Yes, I voted for him. Yes, I absolutely would vote for him again.

@mowens Your friend is wrong about not getting adequate recompense for his services. I must say, however, that if money was his only reason for being a doctor, the world will be better off if he quits.

dynamicduo's avatar

One thing’s for sure, no matter how bad he is, he and Biden are much better than McCain and Palin.

It’s hard going up against the big corporate interests in the States, and while some of Obama’s wavering positions have irritated and disheartened me, I am still rooting for him, and have not yet taken down my Obama Bobblehead (which really is the most support I can offer, being a Canadian).

Qingu's avatar

@mowens, your friend is going to quit being a doctor if health care reform passes? Your friend sounds like a moron. How much did medical school cost him?

As for the Iraq War—you said you opposed anything that costs more than $1 trillion. Like the Iraq War. But you’re neither for nor against the Iraq War? That’s interesting.

Maybe you should have said “I’m against anything that costs over $1 trillion if it involves helping Americans have better lives… but not necessarily if it involves killing hundreds of thousands of foreign civilians over false pretenses.”

Grisaille's avatar

Just a week ago, I would have jumped in and said yes.

As of right now, the White House is saying that the Public Option is not “essential”. If this bill goes through without the PO, I’m going to say no. We elected him for a reason, and this, coupled with him not releasing the “enhanced interrogation” pictures, is just a slap in the face. Hell, I don’t even know why I felt so encouraged back during the campaign.

But that doesn’t matter.

We’ll see what happens with the Health Care Reform bill.

jbfletcherfan's avatar

One must remember that this man isn’t running the country all on his own. He has A LOT of people to answer to (Congress & Senate)

Qingu's avatar

@Grisaille, I initially shared your view, but what exactly can Obama do? He’s not emperor. Congress has to write the bill. And unfortunately, ~40% of Congressmen are apparently insane, and a significant fraction of the remainder appear to be corrupt and/or also insane.

If you want to be pissed at someone about watering down health care and getting rid of the public option, look at the Blue Dog democrats. (And, of course, the Republicans).

dynamicduo's avatar

@Grisaille Just curious, how many Town Halls have you been participating in as well as other pro-health care activities to raise awareness of the situation and to combat Republican spin? I ask this because I have heard your opinion of “we elected Obama for a reason” used to support the concept that Obama needs to fix this health care situation without any involvement from the people who elected him, which I feel is a completely baseless claim.

ShanEnri's avatar

No, No, and like @Noel_S_Leitmotiv said I never expected him to be!

mowens's avatar

@Qingu No he is just a realist. He the reason he is going through all this trouble to become a doctor is because he wanted to make 300k+ a year.

If it passes, he fears he will be making the same as he would if he were an engineer or something. Plus, he wouldnt have to worry about law suits or work long hours. He would probably go into I.T. He just doesnt think it is worth the effort to finish everything, if he won’t be making a crap load of money.

Quagmire's avatar

Frankly, I think he doesn’t really know what he’s doing, but he’s doing it ANYWAY. I think he’s being dishonest with the American people ESPECIALLY about what’s to come of health care. And isn’t it a BIT strange that the major depression that was supposed to last until next year is ALREADY coming around? And, NO, it wasn’t because of anything his “stimulus package” (A.K.A. “Lets give lots of money to the people I want to give lots of money to, but lie about the reasons”) did. The media got this man elected.

And I think people are fooling themselves when they don’t see him as a racist. He clearly is.

Bri_L's avatar

Yes I voted for him.

Yet I would again.

Yes I am happy with him.

I think his presidency will be a viewed with a self fulfilling prophetic eye.

The people who didn’t like him will not and will endeavor to find what is wrong. Those who like him, will see the positive and support.

I know I didn’t like Bush and even though I tried to support him as an American myself once he started, the further along he got the more difficult it became.

Qingu's avatar

@mowens, he’s a realist… who presumably spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on medical school… who now wants to throw that away and become an engineer (pissing away even more money) because he might not be able to make 300k/year as a doctor?

No, he sounds like a moron. And kind of a greedy asshole too. But then I’m trying to be less judgmental.

Qingu's avatar

@Quagmire, you made several claims:
• Obama doesn’t know what he’s doing
• Obama is being dishonest about health care
• The stimulus package involved giving money to Obama’s constituency
• The media got Obama elected

Can you back any of them up? I can make unsubstantiated claims too. Watch!
“Quagmire is a secret Muslim.”

Also, the “depression” (it’s actually a recession) is still supposed to end next year, in terms of job market recovery. It currently appears to be bottoming out, which is good news. You made the claim that the stimulus had nothing to do with this, contrary to a huge number or professional economists I’ve read. I’m curious why in the world you think you are in a position to make such a claim—have you even studied economics?

mowens's avatar

@Qingu He is a good guy, and originally did go to be a doctor to help people. But he said, you get over that real quick dealing with difficult people in the ER. He will probably go in to IT, he started out as Computer Science-type guy and is really good at it.

But would you not sleep for days at a time if you could have the same outcome and rest?

He said a lot of people he is in school with have siad the same thing. There is no point to bust their ass if there is no light at the end of the tunnel.

I can’t really say much else without actually putting words into his mouth—but I agree with him. The medical proffession will lose a lot of young intelligent canidates.

Qingu's avatar

@mowens, if your friend is an example of the kind of candidate the medical profession is going to lose, I wouldn’t really say they’re going to lose “intelligent” candidates. Frankly, good riddance.

Grisaille's avatar

@Qingu No, I completely agree. The conservative Democrats are the ones to blame here. My beef isn’t with Obama himself or what he has done or will do. It’s with what he hasn’t done; my issue is that he’s been soft handed.

We have 60 Democratic Senators. They own the Senate and the House. They own the White House. Filibuster proof. Obama’s been quiet with regards to the Public Option portion of the bill, and it pisses me off. This is the time for him to pull some of them aside and say, “Hey, I hear you’re running in a few years. You know, if you don’t support a bill with the Public Option, I might just have to host a town hall event for your rival.”

Is it dirty? Yes.

At this stage in the game, however, we shouldn’t care. These Congressmen (as evidenced by FactCheck and Olbermann) are paid off by the health insurance industry. There is a metric ton of data that shows the Public Option would drive down health care costs, provide a stable alternative to private insurance for millions and, in the long run, actually break even and be profitable.

Obama saying that the PO is not essential is caving. There is no pressure here, and I feel this slipping away.

@dynamicduo None.

They do not represent the majority. 90% of these town hall demonstrators are bused around the country and organized by non-profit groups – which are all curiously funded and run by the health industry. Polls show that anywhere between 60–83% of Americans want the Public Option. The demonstrators, whilst their fear is real, stirred by deceit, are all – as the media would put it – astroturf.

It unfortunately isn’t a ground game. This is played by the top level, and we can’t do shit about it. The Republicans and Conservative Democrats want to kill a Public Option-included bill, because their corporate overlords have told them to do so. The mainstream media is just now (as mentioned earlier, Olbermann and his fantastic special comment. Maddow as well. I’m sure others will follow) starting to report the donations even a curious, casual researcher would be able to spot.

Quagmire's avatar

@Qingu, Yes, I did study economics, in Graduate School. I have a Master’s Degree. Do you?

And my intent in posting was not to start a discussion. My intent was to answer the questioner’s question.

But I gotta tell ya, although you contradicted most of what I posted, you didn’t contradict my “racist” statement. I wonder why.

Qingu's avatar

Obama hasn’t been quiet about the public option. Every time someone asks him about it, he says he supports it and explains why (private insurance companies need competition to drive down costs).

I would obviously prefer a public option. But if we get a bill with co-ops instead of a public option, I’m not going to hold it against Obama. I’m not even going to be that upset. It’s not as though this is necessarily the end-all-be-all health care bill. Consider that, even though America is achingly stupid and conservative today, the demographics in the long-term are in our favor. We can always propose a public option (or even, eventually, single-payer) when the political realities are in our favor.

Qingu's avatar

@Quagmire, you have a master’s degree in econ? From what school? Did you study macroeconomics? Why do you think Paul Krugman’s analysis is wrong? (I myself have not studied econ in graduate school, but I consider myself reasonably well-informed, so feel free to get as technical as you like).

I actually didn’t notice your “racist” comment upon first glance. I guess my response to that is, what is your definition of “racist”? My second response would be for you to cite evidence supporting that Obama lines up with that definition.

mowens's avatar

I didn’t mean to start an anger feud… sorry guys.

Quagmire's avatar

@Qingu, although I’m sure there is something for me to gain in convincing you of anything, I think I’ll pass. As I said, I posted to respond to the question. Nothing else.

MrMeltedCrayon's avatar

I voted for Obama and would gladly do so again.

@mowens: Don’t worry about it. You asked a question, which is the entire point of this site. Conflicting opinions and answers, and the feuds the follow them, are bound to happen sometimes.

dalepetrie's avatar

I was his #1 fan, and I still think he’s impressive and has accomplished an amazing amount in the short time he’s been in office. And any disagreements I’ve had with him have been minor. But if it’s true that he’s going to turn pussy and kill the public option in the health care bill, I’m going to be fucking pissed.

marinelife's avatar

@dalepetrie Me too. I agree, and also with your profanity-laced diatribe on the subject in another thread. I have been thinking that we should all notify the White House and our elected officials NOT to cave under this pressure. All of us. We can make more of a difference than the whacked-out, wild-eyed listeners to consevative talk radio if we make the effort!

dalepetrie's avatar

@Marina – normally I don’t use THAT much profanity, but I’m about as pissed as I’ve been in several years.

marinelife's avatar

@dalepetrie I know. I read your post to my husband and said as much. We are both rather upset about it ourselves. one of the big problems for me is that the Democrats have been remarkably ineffective in countering this junk.

Grisaille's avatar

When are the Democrats good at countering stuff like this?

I’m a liberal. I agree with most, if not all, social, political and foreign policy the Democratic party stands for. What upsets me is the lack of backbone in the party, save for a few exceptions.

Seriously. No bite at all. And it pisses me off.

PeanutButterMan's avatar

NEVER

wundayatta's avatar

He’s still better than the alternative, although it would, some day, be really nice to have a politician who believes what I believe get elected. Well, if Congress also agreed. It’s kind of disappointing that he has to make so many compromises, but that’s the way legislation is made. Even if I were President, I’d have to do a lot of horse trading.

Zuma's avatar

I’m disappointed in Obama, but my expectations were, perhaps, unrealistically high.

I was disappointed that he gave away $350 billion in tax cuts to the Republicans in a misguided bid for bipartisanship in the stimulus package. This is money that could have gone to much more needy folks (which is where you get the greatest stimulus bang per buck). It is also money that could have gone to infrastructure, which also has a better stimulus multiplier than tax cuts—which won’t kick in till mid 2010, when people start getting their tax refunds for 2009. At least with infrastructure, you have the road, or bridge, or light rail for future generations. Here, he’s caved to the Republicans and gotten absolutely nothing for it but scorn and abuse. You don’t worry about deficits when the economy is in free-fall; more infrastructure investment would have neutralized that red herring.

The TARP (bank) bailout is also a major disappointment insofar as it has socialized the risks of the banking, credit and insurance companies while privatizing the taxpayer-subsidized profits. While that was the previous administration’s intent, he has done nothing to curb the power of the “too big to fail” companies, in effect, perpetuating a privileged strata of corporations that are first in line at the public trough, to the severe disadvantage of the taxpayer. These special interests already distort the whole political process by being so rich that they can easily outspend any other competing interest. These oligopolies screw us all.

The Obama Administration diverted some of the TARP money to things like mortgage modification, but nothing has been done to alter the basic power relation between borrower and lender. Only 9% of the people who have gotten mortgage modifications under the Obama program have actually benefited; the banks are still able to play chicken with mortgage-holders faced with foreclosure. So, the banks are collecting the $4,000 incentive fee to modify, and giving terms that are no better, then sitting back and collecting fees and penalties when as many as 30% of them go back into default. These modifications are not permanent; so it merely postpones the day of reckoning for people who are holding ARMS with predatory lending gimmicks in them.

So-called credit reform was another huge disappointment insofar as banks are still able to charge upward of 30% interest, with no repeal of the Bush Administration bankruptcy laws that make it almost impossible to discharge these predatory debts in bankruptcy.

Obama may be winding down the war in Iraq, but he’s winding up the war in Afghanistan, which we’ve been in for 8 years and experts say we could be in from 10 to 15 years more—and it’s all unpaid for. The Obama Administration has declared the war on terror over, but they still practice extraordinary rendition, and the indefinite detention of “enemy combatants.” There is some indication that torture has not stopped. Guantanamo may be shutting down, but the prison at Bagram Air Force is ramping up.

There does not appear to be any interest in addressing the criminal actions of the previous administration (although that could change as more torture memos and revelations about Cheney’s death squads dribble out). We now have more mercenaries under arms than we did during the Bush Administration. We may have to rely on countries like Spain to bring people like Dick Cheney and John Yoo to justice.

Obama has backpedaled on gay marriage and gays in the military. He has not addressed the war on drugs, which is at the heart of mass incarceration, and the huge racial disparities of who is incarcerated in the US. Obama is keeping a continuing the Office of Faith-Based Initiatives, which provides a government subsidy to religious organizations begun by Bush II.

I could go on and on. Of course, I would vote for him again. I would vote for a yellow dog before I’d ever vote for a Republican. As refreshing as I find his competence compared to Bush II, he is too tepid and cautious in tackling the big issues; hence he is not likely to change things enough to clean up the corruption of unregulated capitalism enough to pull the economy out of the ditch anytime soon.

Our economic elites (notably Wall Street) has presided over the deindustrialization of America. Our manufacturing base has been exported to Mexico and China. Cash for clunkers may stop the hemorrhaging for a few months, but it is not enough to pull our automakers back from the brink of bankruptcy. There isn’t even a discussion about reinvesting in America, unless you count our fiddle farting efforts to float GM and Chrysler through a bankruptcy workout.

critter1982's avatar

I didn’t vote for him, and I’m not happy with the adminsitration. IMO, it’s different faces, different egos, different rhetoric, but still the same old basic shit…..

@MontyZuma: I’m not even so sure this Cash for Clunkers thing will reduce the hemmoragging? GM and Chrysler aren’t even in the top 10 for cars being purchased with this program. Until they start to make cars that people actually want, they’ll continue to lose money. Secondly, the government as always seems to screw things up, they are several months behind in giving the dealers their money back which was allocated for this program.

Qingu's avatar

@critter1982, please define “basic shit.” IN the past six months Obama has overturned many Bush policies and has enacted policies that no Republican would ever do.

critter1982's avatar

The same basic shit are all the lies that candidates regurgitate on stage.

1. The promise to end income tax on seniors.
2. The promise to allow for 5 days of public comment prior to signing his bills.
3. No political appointees in an Obama-Biden administration will be permitted to work on regulations or contracts directly and substantially related to their prior employer for two years.
4. $3,000 tax credits for companies that add jobs.
5. Allowing penalty free hardship withdrawals from retirement accounts.
6. Negotiating health care reform in public sessions televised on C-Span.
7. Eliminating capital gains taxes on for small business.
8. Go line by line over earmarks to make sure money is spent wisely.

This is just some of the basic shit I’m referring to, not including some of the social issues I just don’t agree with him on.

Qingu's avatar

No, that’s a list of “broken promises” statements you probably got from Politifact or some similar website.

You seem to be ignoring the much longer list of promises kept and in the works. You are also ignoring the relative importance of the promises he’s kept.

I also don’t recall you ever caring about any of this stuff before the election. Did you?

critter1982's avatar

So I guess your just used to your political leaders lying to you. I’m not okay with it, and when GB was lying the liberal left couldn’t say enough about it. Double standards perhaps, to me its the same old bullshit that the government gives us everyday. Also I’m not so sure why you have so much faith your government can run a health care system, they can’t even manage, SS, medicare, and they are currently screwing up the cash for clunkers. Everything they touch turns to mediocre garbage.

Zuma's avatar

@critter1982 Whoa, whoa, whoa! I get Social Security and Medicare, and they are managed just fine. So, there is absolutely no reason to suppose that the government wouldn’t be able to manage an expanded “Medicare for everybody” type of program. After all, they already have a system in place and it is much easier and more cost effective to run. Ask any doctor. Doctors will tell you that they have to employ someone full time to battle private insurers, with all their exclusions and denials; Medicare is the easiest part of the system they have to deal with.

The government is not “screwing up” the cash for clunkers program. The program, which went from nothing to completely sold out in just a few months has been wildly successful. It has accomplished all its goals: People are getting new cars they otherwise wouldn’t have; gas guzzling, air polluting clunkers are being taken off the road; the economy is being stimulated, car companies are being kept alive, if not turning a profit; and everyone involved in the program is extremely happy with it.

Being late on a few payments (if this is even true) isn’t a program failure; it the sort of administrative glitch that any new program faces, and it is the sort of thing that tends to get fixed in due course, as the program becomes fully staffed and running. It usually takes at least six months to a year to implement a government program; so having gotten all this money out the door as fast as they did with as few mistakes as they did was actually quite remarkable.

As for the cash for clunkers program not saving the American auto industry in the long run, I am inclined to agree with you there. But the problem there is the industry, not the government. What two of the big three are talking about now is using the recent uptick in sales to pay back the government and get out from under its supervision so they can get back to business as usual—i.e., shifting production to Mexico for the same lackluster product line. Detroit has lost it’s innovative edge. It’s technology lags way behind it’s foreign competitors, and it’s styling is crap. What Detroit should be doing is making substantial investments in R&D for a new generation of highly fuel efficient vehicles that people would actually want to buy because they really are of superior quality and styling.

benjaminlevi's avatar

He was the lesser of the two evils.

critter1982's avatar

@montyzuma: ss and Medicare under current conditions are not sustainable, so what you see as managed just fine has some serious financial liquidity issues. AS if not changed will see continued reductions in payouts, meaning you want get what you put in on a statistical per capita basis. Medicare although I agree probably easier to work with than some of the insurance companies has issues of itself, including not paying doctors what they charge for their services. So IMO I don’t think the government will be capable of taking over healthcare without either of 2 things happening; one will be to raise our taxes at least 2 times as much as they are telling us (which goes back to the whole same old garbage with our leaders continually lying to us and nobody holding them accountable), or this program will continually run on a deficit increasing this administrations already trillion dollar spending spree.

The cash for clunkers is very successful, I agree, however it’s incredibly short sighted and currently nor functioning very well for the American car companies, which means our tax dollars are only also stimulating china, japan, Mexico, and probably Germany.

To date Chrysler and gm are both spending lots of money in r&d. I believe it was just gl that unveiled the 240 mpg car in Detroit. The problem though does not only lie within the kinds of cars but it also lies within their costs. Gm and Chrysler both employee union labor which is incredibly expensive, and I’m sure you know wages are the number one hit to the bottom line. Chrysler and gm also need to figure out how to improve their costs by not increasing already big price tags.

critter1982's avatar

Sorry for poor grammar, I’m typing on my iPod

swuesquire's avatar

@critter1982 There’s a difference between poor management and being unwilling to pay for a program. In 2000 the Medicare and Social Security trusts were running a gigantic surplus. Our leaders at the time decided it was a good idea to spend this surplus on unwarranted tax cuts, rather than building a stronger trust fund for these programs. This is how Bush justified (at first at least) his trillion dollar tax cut. I don’t see what that has to do with the actual delivery of service. Medicare is running into budget problems not because of it being a faulty program, but because we as a country think we can have entitlement programs without paying for them.

Zuma's avatar

@critter1982 As swuesquire points out, you are quibbling over a relatively trivial actuarial funding imbalance that is more of a question our political will to face up to the true costs of our programs than a problem with the design, efficiency or effectiveness of the program itself. The OMB study you are alluding to suggests several technical fixes that could be applied across the whole health care sector to make the whole thing more effective—if and when you get the whole system under one administrative umbrella.

Here’s the real deal: Our present for-profit system is far more unsustainable. In fact,our whole economy is unsustainable! That is why we want health care reform. One sixth of our GDP goes to health care; of which 22% goes to the for-profit sector’s “administrative overhead,” all of which is waste, insofar as it does does not go into paying for actual health care. Instead, it pays for socially unproductive things like fancy corporate jets, $200 million CEO salaries, megabuck political campaign contributions that distort our whole political system, and a complex, opaque labyrinthian billing system that is extremely prone to waste, fraud and abuse. Bringing the health care system under a single billing system would, by itself, generate enough savings to cover the currently uninsured who are a drag on the economy in terms of lost productivity. The fact is, you pay for them directly or indirectly anyway.

And so what if you might have to pay more taxes to get universal health care if it covers you when you get sick? This is a deal that every other first world country care finds acceptable. Currently, we all pay $6,096 per capita for a level of health care that ranks 37th in the world, and that only some of the people get. Britain pays $2,560 per capita and ranks 18th. France pays $3,040 and ranks 1st in the world—and it is a government-organized, government-administered system (although it has a mix of public and private funding).

The point is that there is noting inherently incompetent about government, but there is something inherently incompetent about Republicans in their approach to governing. They don’t believe in it, they don’t want it, and they try to sabotage it anyway they can. They hire people who are hostile to the mission of government to look the other way while the unregulated industry rapes the American public—like we had with the lending industry and the sub-prime mortgage meltdown. Or, it privatizes government so that it can give out lucrative no-bid contracts to its cronies (Enron, Halliburton, Blackwater, Choice Point, Abramoff, etc.); it was a virtual hallmark of the entire Bush II Administration. (Seriously, if you don’t believe me, click on this one.)

Okay, now you agree that cash for clunkers was successful, but now object that it is wrong-headed because it stimulates other economies besides our own. The reason for that is because Wall Street demands a very high rate of return for it’s shareholders, and the only way to achieve those returns is to relentlessly cut costs, which they do by throwing the American worker into direct competition with workers in Mexico and China in a hope to bid down wages. Wall Street and industry found they could do one better by simply exporting the whole factory to a third world country where there are no costly environmental regulations, no health and safety codes, and where the government assists the company in busting unions.

As a consequence, the US has lost almost it’s entire manufacturing base. We are no longer a country that makes anything, and so we don’t really have the earnings to pay for things we no longer make; so, we have to borrow the money. Basically, we have been getting by for decades now by riding speculative bubbles. Last fall, the mother of all bubbles, the real estate market, popped due to Republican mismanagement, and it nearly brought down the entire world economy. It is therefore only proper and fair that when we stimulate our economy, we also stimulate the economies of those who are linked with ours, especially since they are also our creditors.

All of your objections sound like whining quibbles. (Politicians lie; we might have to pay more taxes; you don’t have faith in government, things might not turn out well, nothing ever works, so why try anything, etc.) You don’t seem to acknowledge, much less offer any solutions to the country’s problems. You seem wedded to the same ideology that got us into this mess: less government, less regulation, lower taxes, and the rest of it.

You blame unions, but unionization is now only around 12% of the workforce. Back in the 1950s when upward of 40% of the workforce was unionized, the middle class was much more prosperous than it is now. In fact, the whole country was prosperous because non-union companies had to pay wages that were competitive with the unionized sector. Everyone had money in their pockets; could easily afford American-made products; and nobody sweated paying taxes. American cars were the best in the world, and we bought them with enthusiasm, paying for them in solid cash which we earned by making real things.

All of that has turned to shit because we let Wall Street call the shots with things like NAFTA, the mergers and acquisitions movement of the 80s and 90s, deindustrialization and globalization, and union busting under Reagan and subsequent Republican administrations.

Answer this question

Login

or

Join

to answer.

This question is in the General Section. Responses must be helpful and on-topic.

Your answer will be saved while you login or join.

Have a question? Ask Fluther!

What do you know more about?
or
Knowledge Networking @ Fluther