The Telegraph is reporting that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad hails from Jewish ancestry. Thoughts?

This changes nothing. His family are converted jews.

It changes nothing.

Hitler pushed for a blonde haired, blue eyed, super race and exterminated millions of Jews.

He was a swarthy, sickly little man of Jewish ancestry. Most people are fucking sheep that will follow anything without question as long as it means that they will be left alone.

Hitler was not of Jewish ancestry, but that fact is not as important as the meme. It is very common to assert that some sort of self-loathing is the underlying reason for bad behavior. This may or not be so – the consequences of the behavior are equally severe either way.

I’m fairly certain that his woodshed did indeed have some bergs and steins creeping around in it.

PM me if you wish for the origins and the disproof for this legend.I am a scholar of the period, and have amassed a rather formidable library.

You better watch yourself. This guy sounds legit.

The rumor that Hitler had Jewish ancestry was concocted by his former lawyer, Hans Frank. The problem is that none of the details in Frank’s tale match reality.

However, one thing is certain, that Hitler’s father was born out of wedlock, and his grandmother never revealed who the father of her child was. Some people think there was some form of incest involved.

i am not saying this as a definitive statement… but doesn’t he hate the state of israel, and zionism , but perhaps not necessarily jews per se? of course anti-semetic sentiments would be a direct symptom of being anti-israel…

I had not seen this.

I think it changes nothing.

I have never been clear if Ahmadinejad hates the Jews or simply believes that Israel is Arab land. I have never heard a statement from his mouth that he wants to extinguish all of the Jews like Hitler. I know it is a bad sad thing for him to question the Holocaust, but his biggest complaint has always been that the Holocaust was done by Hitler and Germans, so maybe they should have been the one to give up their land. Europe had occupied Arab land, and then when they gave it back there were borders drawn that some question to begin with, and the UN decided to give Israel to the Jews. I think it is reasonable to beleive that if the Holocaust had never happened the UN may not have supported a Jewish State the way they did, but maybe they would have? Israel gives a strong ally to the US and other western countries in the middle east, so from a purely political standpoint, forgetting helping the Jews it might have happened anyway.

It also proves what I always say, people think that if you are born from Jews you are a Jew in other people’s eyes, even if you live as a Moslem, Christian, or whatever. I always tell people who are atheist Jews, who actually themselves do not identify as a Jew that they should keep in mind that no matter what everyone sees you as a decendent.

@alive You must have hit answer one second before me.

I’m with everyone else. He’s still a lunatic, a liar, and an asshole. Only maybe now a partially Jewish lunatic/liar/asshole.

respectfully retracts the phrase Jewish ancestry from his post above. ^^

Placemen?

same outcome either way dear friend

Great responses. I posted this to invoke this sort of discourse.

However, I was encouraged enough to think that perhaps Ahmadinejad’s hypocrisy would become abundantly clear in Iranian eyes; enough to have him replaced or – at the very least – be acted against the next time he rigs an election.

though, the fallacy and total uprooting of such a thing would be that I expect those who would be angered over such a thing would only act out of religious intolerance, not rationale or reason

False hope, I suppose. You all are correct; it changes nothing. Damn shame.

Placemen??

Placemen…............

Oh yeah, he (Hitler) espoused the superiority of “Blue eyed,blond haired ” people, and what was he?
Placeman/patsy?

@lloydbird Placemen

Maybe he’ll be added to the lyrics of the next adam sandler Hanukkah song?

The question is… if it’s true that he has a Jewish background and he’s an antisemite… does that entail some degree of self loathing?

Reminds me of this little paradox concerning a certain black “white supremacist” I love that sketch!

@oratio Both he (Hitler) and he (Ahmadinajad).?

@Grisaille: You think he wasn’t acted against this time?!

Oh, woah. No, I’m not trying to say there wasn’t (I was in the midst of the Twitter sphere when this entire thing sparked up; green avatar, retweets of important updates and all). Tone on my post was incorrect.

I meant physical removal of Ahmadinejad from power. This is difficult, yes – perhaps a revolution is a bit too much to ask for (even though Iran’s technological/arms prowess is comparatively low with regards to the rest of the world, the people to government ratio of such is significant. If you told me that it was the highest in the world, I wouldn’t hesitate to call it fact).

The fact of the matter is that the people are tired, weary and beaten down. All it takes is a little ignition before arms are taken up. It won’t be long before third party military intervention takes place; quite frankly, Iran isn’t on the best of terms with the United Nations. I’m only speculating and (drastically) simplifying a situation focused in the most volatile, unstable part of the world and asking people to spill their blood for the country, I know. What else can I do?

Beware paid and promoted stirrers of shit.

@Dr_C Are you saying Ahmadinejad is an antisemite, or you are wondering if he is?

Who’s gonna do the removing? America is still getting shit for thrusting ourselves into Iraq and ousting Saddam. The United Nations as an entity has no military power whatsoever.

And the Ayatollah and the Guardian Council put him in power in the first place. There will be no change from within.

So what’s left? Assassination? This is also not an acceptable form of international justice…

I think he meant, “So he’s an antisemite yet is a Jew himself. Does that mean he hates himself?”

Hahahhahahahhahhahahahahhahahahahha!

I’m sorry, but I find this news hilarious. Historically, Jews who converted to other religions proved to be some of the most troublesome and persistent persecutors of their former people. There is definitely a sense of self-loathing here, though perhaps not through any conscious effort on Ahmadinejad’s part.

The tact-less, unrealistic scenario in my head says that the people take up arms against the militia (strength in numbers) and fights on the street. Fight tumbles out of control. Emergency UN meeting takes place. Industrialized decide that military intervention is needed. Joint forces enter Iran and are shot at. Joint forces side with citizen forces. Yay, revolution.

What I’m saying is that the last protest only proved that we (the well-to-do assholes of the world) are a bunch of cowards, unable to protect and fight for true liberty and freedom. We saw normal civilians die, watched, reported on it, uploaded it on Youtube and let it get lost in the stream of voices. There needs to be something bigger to spark our asses back in action, @nikipedia. The only way a revolution in Iran can succeed is if there is blood drawn for it. It’s a painful, ridiculous notion.

So you’re saying it’s the responsibility of the international community to invade Iran and depose their leader?

10s of thousands of (Especially good looking) people are alive , right NOW!!, maybe 100s of thousands of such people, and they might not be soon, because why?
Because of a few overly powerful (Ugly) profit motivated dipshits.

Oh by the way, no, I’m neither Iranian or Muslim

I don’t necessarily see it as antisemitic to disagree about Israel. I know black people who talk about their own people and their frustration with them working the system, unwed teenage mothers, high school drop out rates, etc. Are they racist against their own kind?

I’m saying that if the Iranian people – and, damn, I’m going against a personal philosophy by speaking in opinion in absolutes here – would be better off if Ahmadinejad and the Ayatollah was taken out of power and a liberal, not antisemetic and progressive government was put in its place.

I mean, I’d love that too, but I don’t think it’s our right or our responsibility to bounce around the world destroying governments and installing the people we’d rather see in charge.

@Grisaille At least the people of Iran had access to Twitter and computers. That is part of the reason we were able to know what was happening during the election, I think that is something positive. I doubt the people of North Korea would have had that type of access and freedom. I don’t like Ahmadinejad either, but I do feel very hopeful things will change over time for that country.

@Grisaille The thing is – just like with Iraq and Saddam Hussein – that if you go after the leader, you have to go through the people you want to save; with bombs and guns. I am not sure they would be thankful either.

@oratio ” The thing is – just like with Saddam….......” excellent point.

@nikipedia And I fully agree with that; unfortunately, we’ve inherited the false title of a “police nation.” If a serious – and I mean dozens of deaths in a week – crackdown were to take place in Iran, who do you think would be the first to be pointed at and tagged for entry?

I don’t like it one bit; not that I am selfish for the country or the men and women in the Armed Forces – I dislike the idea of uprooting entire countries and instilling our own personal philosophies, as if it is the “right” one. Never have. It’s ridiculous and runs counteractive to our own philosophy.

But on the opposite side of the spectrum, I’m under the assumption that a substantial crackdown like the one I illustrated above would be deemed uncalled for in the global community. If action is not taken in a situation like that, liberty, freedom, honor… then those are just rosy words to be thrown around during times of peace and personal trial. I’d expect this country’s citizens to stand up for the injustice if inaction is prolonged. But now I’m rambling.

@JLeslie I can only hope. The man is dangerous, and I presume to be a figurehead for a scheme much larger. We’ve not seen any progress for peace in that area for, what? Decades?

@oratio Iraq was a disaster on many levels. Up until very recently, we haven’t made any steps with regards to keeping an area secure; our plan of action was simply sweep, move, sweep, move, repeat. We started numerous programs; most notable – or at least memorable for me – has been paying off of the enemy low-level foot soldiers. Many of these guys are dirt poor and only follow orders for scraps; forming trust with the citizens is one thing – the real goal should be forming trust with the enemy. By paying them off, you are giving them a place to go after the fight is over, food in their stomachs and a sense of accomplishment. These guys aren’t religious/political extremists, they fight because they are told to.

That said, we are also apparently being cognizant with regards to the operation:collateral ratio. I’ve heard reports that we won’t carry out a mission of there will be any possibility of civilian death.

Understand that I’m not being apologetic here, I’m halfway playing devil’s advocate, halfway providing some of the myriad of reasons as to why we failed our overall, projected mission: Secure and stabilize Iraq.

@Grisaille Is that a picture of you or Dave Gahan?

It probably means he just can openly discuss his love of potato latkes and manishevitz.

I hated having George W. Bush as our president, but I would not have appreciated it if the Iranians or the Iraqis or the Russians or anybody else had taken him out for us and liberated us.

If there is going to be any change with him, the risk is that he will strengthen his position in an attempt to distance himself from any “Jewishness” perceptions.

@Jeruba . . .That is a very salient point that few make. Great answer.

@Jeruba I agree with you, but I can’t help wondering if there was no end in sight, no term limits and elections seemed obviously fixed, and if there was no congress to balance Bush, would you want another government to help? I don’t agree with screwing around with other governments in general, but I know when we first went into Iraq Cuban Floridians were pissed we had not hunted down and overthrown Castro. And, there is a part of me that wants to go into countries where women are routinely raped, force fed and/or tortured and occupy it or do something to change the culture there. It may be that some of the heads of state in these countries want the help, I would start with those. Help women, help the world.

@all Also, we cannot go 100% by news reports and some vocal citizens about the response to the elections. We, in America, want to get rid of Ahmadinejad, so we are very prone to believe the police were violent and sent by him etc. I do believe many in his country want to get rid of him, but I am sure we don’t have the whole story, or the full perspective of the Iranians. We have violent demonstrations and police brutality too, how do you think it looks on the news in another country? I might have posted this before…guess what city/country?

“MARK POTTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we’re looking at a situation right now in [city withheld], where police are arresting a photographer. A news photographer is being led away by the police right now. The police moved into this area about 10, 15 minutes ago, retaking control of this area that had been—that they had abandoned for a while. The protesters were out here on the streets in force…And then the police came back in riot gear, firing tear gas, spraying pepper spray and resuming control of this area. A moment ago we also saw another man being arrested…at a gas station across the street from us. You’re looking now at that trash dumpster on [street withheld] that was set fire a while ago. The police came in, established control of the area, then the fire department came in and put the fire out.
The police clearly are in a no-nonsense mood here, and most of the protesters have been chased away. They had parked cars in the middle of the intersection and were chanting…as it appeared for just a short while, maybe a half an hour, that the police had abandoned the area, had established a perimeter around it, were letting people blow off steam. But that didn’t last very long, and the police came back in much bigger force than they had been here before, wearing gas masks, with their riot gear, with their shields, and clearly clearing out the area very effectively.
The people—the people ran away to the west and to the south. The gas is very effective in changing people’s direction. And it worked. And the people have been moved.
Now there are a number of these incidents, we’re told, around [city withheld] and this is just one, and one more of them that has blown up this morning. People are extremely angry here and feel betrayed by the government.”

@JLeslie: What made the Iranian protests so remarkable is that the government actively sought to suppress information about what was going on, and it got out anyway. The information we got came straight from the people of Iran via Twitter, facebook, blogs, etc. In fact, I learned precisely 0% of what I know about the protest from the American news media: I heard it all from http://english.aljazeera.net/ and the Farsi BBC radio broadcasts as translated to me by the Persian guy I was dating at the time.

From what I understand, the American government was afraid of saying or doing much at all to criticize the elections for fear Khameini and Ahmadinejad would undermine the protests by accusing the West of instigating them. So I am very confident that what we know about the political situation there is as close to truth as we can hope to get when it comes to international politics.

@nikipedia I 100% believe there are many in that country who want a change. I also believe that some of the violence came from unruly crowds on the side of change, and that the police and other officials were not only trying to “hide” what was going on from the world, but possibly also trying to keep people safe.

The city was Miami by the way during Elian Gonzalez. They were lighting fires in the streets and angry at the US government, and flippin’ flying Cuban flags, which I will never understand, while fighting to keep Elian in the US.

To answer the question… not much is going to change in the short term.
Reminds me of Cassius’ question of “Cui Bono?”. In other words who benifits!
With all of Ahmadinijad’s tirades, it certainly does not help the Iranian cause?!
Again “Cui Bono”.
There have been many myths & assumptions in the West re Iran, mainly perpetuated by the Media. Some of them are addressed and refuted here by one of my favorite Mid-East scholors/bloggers. Again, “Cui Bono?”
One other thing comes to mind… Back in the late sixties and early seventies, western intelligence used to recruit East European radicals to come into the West and commit minor terroist acts and then scurry back across the border on to be able to point the finger towards the East as justification for some military buildup or political gain…
All I can say is that if this story dies/disappears then ask yourself what purpose is fulfilling. If it gains stamina, then the arument which Iran is going to be making soon, that their Nuclear facility is for peaceful purposes is true, and in complience IAEA guidlines.
Also with the new American administrations’ penchant for diplomacy, a guy like Ahamadinijad is no longer needed! By either side.

It seems to me that for some reason, we all want – and expect – that countries will turn into democracies in just a couple of years. And if they don’t do it themselves, we will do it for them.

Then, we will all be happy and snug together in freedom and pat our own righteous backs.

It will take time to build a true democracy, that people live by. That should – and will – be the job of the children – and their children – in these countries.

Afghanistan will not be a democracy anytime soon, whatever is done over there. It is a kind of a catch 22. Obama want’s to leave, but he can’t. He can’t resolve the problems by surging it away, and the Talibans has just been increasing in numbers. The “democratic” regime over there is seen as americas puppet winning a rigged election. It is a true mess.

I am not sure what I think. On one hand I feel that the west should cut the losses and walk away. On the other, there might be hope of a stabilization and a prospect of nation building. America can’t just cut and run – but if they do – it would be impossible to go back unless there would be yet a new pearl harbor.

@Bagardbilla Ahmedinejad is pictured as a monster, and only that. With this story he is depicted as a hypocrite. Well, I don’t think he is a teddybear, but I don’t think he is insane and Napoleonic.

They have democracy in the republic of Iran, albeit shady and stumbling. I don’t think much good will come out of threatening and pushing them. I hope we are entering an age of talks and negotiations instead of war. But talks takes at least two parties that are willing, and willing to make sacrifices in negotiations.

@oratio I would submit that we had the beginnings of a stumbling democracy in Iran, but recent events have proven that when the democracy becomes inconvenient, the ruthless and bloody theocracy raises its head, and achieves its will.

@pdworkin Very true.

Think of the US from te outside if you lived in a country that was our enemy or at minimum there was a general fealing of mistrust…we had during out presidential election of Bush and Gore the brother of Bush in charge of the state with the most controversy, AND it is accepted that the popular vote in the country went to Gore. We are against anyone having nuclear/atomic abilities, yet we are the ones who have actually dropped the bomb on people. We go into countries that have not attacked us. We could easily be painted as aggressive killers who want to occupy countries with corrupt elections.

In a sense, we are all correct here. I seem to be suffering from a certain level of… how do I say this… cognitive dissonance?

On one hand, who is to say our way of life superior to any other? I’m certain that we are bloodthirsty radicals to some who have felt the pain of our military occupancy. Not all, but some.

On the other hand, I am angered when civilians take to the street to demand a vote recount and the response from their government is a violent silencing. In fact, I’m almost certain I’ve read reports where multiple Iranians have been quoted as saying something akin to, “Where is America? Why won’t they help us?” I feel disgusted that we have been called upon and we just looked the other way. If not democracy or the value of human life, what is it that we stand for?

@JLeslie, and don’t forget, our allie (Isreal) has 100+ undeclared, nuclear weapons, and a very advanced nuclear program. The hipocracy of it is just shameful! With double standerds like that… Who will ever listen/look-up to US to be a standard bearer of anything but duplicity!

@Grisaille It is so complex really. I too suffer from wanting to “intefere” because what I see disgusts me, or I feel we were called upon. But then think about what Jeruba wrote, would I want another country here on my land? During the civil rights movement would we have wanted another country here fighting to protect and bring equality to our black citizens and other minorities? We have our own bad behavior and inequalities from not so long ago.

When I think of the Holocaust I think even more Jews would have died if Hitler was not trying to take over all of Europe. If he had just been genocidal, but leaving other governments alone, I don’t think any other country would have bothered to help the Jews and the other people he deemed unworthy. This is when I want to help, I want to save the women who are being raped systematically in parts of Africa, and to protect women from being killed by her family or husband, but things short of that like elections or questioning a style of government, I’m just no so sure.

It is complex.

However, though there is enough reason to assume Bush robbed his seat, he never went so far as to kill his citizens or break relatively peaceful protests up with violence. Regarding the civil rights movement, that is in itself a testament to how well our system can work. I am under the assumption that Iran doesn’t even have that. The people have no voice; we were encouraged with its early, democratic process, but that seems to be a political ruse.

Also – correct me if I’m wrong here – but wasn’t the Holocaust found out much later in the war? I could have sworn that it wasn’t until we started to make substantial progress in the Axis’ front that we found the camps, mass graves, evidence, etc of exactly what was being done (though Hitler’s motives were defined rather clearly in Mein Kampf), save for a few personal accounts of those that fled captivity… could be wrong.

However, I don’t believe – particularly after the first World War (which I’m inclined to believe brought out a sense of traditionalism, patriotism, morality et al in everyone – perhaps not as much as post WWII, but you understand what I mean) – we’d just stand around and let it happen. Maybe I’m just being naive and thinking of the good in people. Maybe.

Back to Iran, I’m just particularly weary of its potential to become armed with nuclear explosives. We know Ahmadinejad’s thoughts on Israel (perhaps this story, the original question, removes some of the validity in that).

@Grisaille But, we don’t know if the protests were relatively peaceful is my point. My assumptions are many were, but there could have been some violence as well, we see that even here in the US. Much of the violence could have been started by Ahmadinejad supporters, I’m not saying the resistance is all to blame, but the peaceful demonstrations could have been sparking a stron reaction from his supporters and then the state wants to shut things down. It does seem though that excessiove force was used in some cases when unwarranted.

Some of the photos on this link http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/06/irans_disputed_election.html show people in the streets, in traffic. I didn’t like when the Cubans were blocking traffic in Miami and they shouldn’t do it in Tehran, that is not a peaceful to me, and we don’t know who is setting things on fire, could be either side. But, I do agree that America has a better election process, that is part of the reason we don’t see such rage in our streets even when your guy loses. AND, if you remember Gore eventually agreed that Bush won, and many politicians went out there to say that Bush is OUR president to help heal the country. From what I understand Mousavi never did that? No matter how unfair that crazy election was, I don’t think it was up to us to referee the election. There are countries all over the world with dictators and bad elections. We only care because this president, the Iranian president, seems hell bent on developing nuclear weapons and hates Israel. When I say we I mean the US government and our citizens as an aggragate, of course some of us care when injustice is done anywhere in the world.

About the Holocaust, I’m just saying that whenever countries joined the war it was to stop Germany from taking over, whether they new about the extermination of Jews and otehrs or not. Do you think that Americans would have supported sending our military over to just save the Jews and handicapped people? I would like to think so, but I doubt it. I like your idealism though. We don’t help so many countries, I think we have to have some political gain to help others, not just be altruistic.

.

Here’s a little bit of extra info courtesy of Brittain’s MI-6. Enjoy.

Thank you @Dr_C.

Reading through, I’m almost inclined to believe that the man is harmless, making all of these aggressive moves to mask his inferiority. Again, I’m looking towards the “good” in people; I want to believe that he’s just a scared, fragile individual. Hiding.

‘course, the actions are inexcusable. I don’t know.

Well, this explains a lot: he’s probably just looking for money.~

Lol, lowblow

Homosexuals with a twisted mind hate other homosexuals for being homosexual and they also hate themselves. Look at Colonel Fitts in the movie American Beauty. He becomes a murderer.

So even if a twisted mind Mahmoud Ahmadinejad had Jewish ancestors he would still hate Jews for being Jewish. And this psychopath has the potential to become a murderer. The world has to watch this guy very carefully. He should never be able to get his hands on nuclear bombs.

the real question: does he hate Jon Gosslin?

everyone does nowadays

And some of us dislike Kate, too.

the short chubby balding asian dude and the reverse mullet wearing lard ass harpie are the reason for the decline in quality television

@Dr_C the short chubby balding asian douchebag.

he probably hates jews even more now

@alive Irritating that Hulu is only available in the states.

ya. sorry/

It’s the middle east, everybody’s related. I suspect that they all have representatives of one or other religion in their history. I suspect that Mohammad had a closer family tie to Jesus than the pope.

There is little difference between what is happening in Israel than there was in Northern Ireland. They are all the same people separated by religion.