Social Question

bright_eyes00's avatar

So...you're uncircumsized?

Asked by bright_eyes00 (1338 points ) October 25th, 2009

At work uncircumsized men came up in a conversation. Honestly, I’ve never been with one and I have never really known someone who was (that was open enough to say so). So, can someone please fill me in? Does this have any implications? Why would someone not be circumsized (other than for religious reasons)? I’m mostly curious about this. Any insight you could offer would be greatly appreciated.

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115 Answers

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HGl3ee's avatar

I have been with both men, and honestly, sexually there is no difference. I’m not sure on the reasoning for being or not being. My SO is not and honestly I prefer it. It keeps the head much more sensitive ;) – LB

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

I really don’t get why people make any kind of a big deal about this…it feels fine either way

Sarcasm's avatar

I am cut, for the record

I think the only difference aside from looks, is that when you’re solo, the extra skin makes you not have to deal with as much friction.

I’ve never had to encounter anyone else’s penis in my life, luckily, but just seeing them in pornos, uncut ones creep me out bigtime. Probably just because they are so foreign to me.

Jayne's avatar

“Why would someone not be circumcised?” seems rather an odd question, seeing as how the default state of nature is, of course, uncircumcised. That being said, I’m circumcised, and uncut just looks weird to me. But since, in most cases, the guy didn’t have any say in the matter, it really doesn’t mean anything, it’s just a reflection of the beliefs, secular or religious, of the parents.

TitsMcGhee's avatar

I’ve actually never come across one either, somehow. My friend, however, apparently has a knack for finding uncut guys. She said it really doesn’t make a difference in the long run.

DominicX's avatar

The circumcision craze is really an American thing. Go to any European country and you will meet plenty of uncircumcised people. Routine infant circumcision isn’t done there like it is in America.

I am uncircumcised. My boyfriend is uncircumcised too. Why would someone not be circumcised? Because they don’t believe in unnecessary surgery? Because they don’t believe in removing a part of their child’s body without their consent? Because that’s the way you naturally are and there’s no need to change it? Those are just a couple reasons why my parents didn’t have it done to me.

bright_eyes00's avatar

I heard that in Europe it is fairly common to be uncircumsized. I was mostly just curious about it since it isnt something I really ever heard of or really ever saw in porn either. I was shown a picture and felt extremely out of the loop but after discussing it on here, I feel a little less naive.

fundevogel's avatar

It think it actually goes “Why would someone be circumcised other than for religious reasons?”

I read an interesting article on it a while back, I think this is it.

jackm's avatar

I am. The reason is the doctor who was going to do it had accidently cut off a boys penis the week before, and another one the day I was born. They hospital said they were required to tell my parents that. My parents decided to save my penis.

I am guessing after they didn’t circumcise me, they looked into it and realized it was the better way to go, because they didnt circumcise any of my brothers either.

I grew up mortified of my weird penis, but I am now glad I have all my parts. It makes no difference to the women, as the foreskin gets pulled back when erect, but it keeps my head protected and sensitive, which is nice. Also, the foreskin as a lot of very sensitive nerve endings, which are just cut off if you are circumcised.

augustlan's avatar

I have been with both, and the first time I saw an uncircumcised penis it did look odd. For about 5 seconds. Then we moved on. ;-)

I think the pendulum is swinging towards not circumcising these days.

Psychedelic_Zebra's avatar

circumcision is unnatural, and I for one am strictly against it unless it is a dire case. Routine circumcision is child abuse. I was circumcised as an infant, with no choice in the matter. that said, you have no idea what I would give/do to have my foreskin back.

jaketheripper's avatar

I heard that there are health benefits to being circumcised. They told me there’s a smaller chance of contacting aids when you are circumcised. but I don’t think I believe that It’s just something they told me at school.

fundevogel's avatar

@jaketheripper and there’s a smaller chance I’ll get breast cancer if I chop off my boobs, but I don’t find that an acceptable form of preventative care either.

jaketheripper's avatar

@fundevogel I’m not advocating it, just contributing to the conversation

fundevogel's avatar

@jaketheripper And I’m glad you did, I was waiting for someone to mention that little bit of insanity.

Sarcasm's avatar

@Psychedelic_Zebra Aside from the fact that it is your property, why exactly do you want it back?

jaketheripper's avatar

Is it total bullshit, or is it at least in some way grounded in fact?

casheroo's avatar

@fundevogel what? Women have that procedure done to prevent breast cancer quite often. It’s not something done lightly, and in my opinion, incomparable to circumcision.

casheroo's avatar

Also, what porn are you watching? I see uncirc’ed peen all the time in porn. It’s not some rarity.

I have known uncircumcised men. Not many, but they do exist lol. I’m not exactly sure what insight into it you would like, could you clarify?

fundevogel's avatar

@casheroo That’s the point. When women have it done it is of their own volition once they are adults when they know that they have a high risk for getting breast cancer. But it’s still really rare. Circumcision is done almost automatically to babies and there’s no such thing as a predisposition to aids. And it isn’t that hard to wear a condom.

So indiscriminately recommending circumcisions to babies because it could reduce the risk of a disease that there is no reason to suspect they will get would be like cutting off your boobs before you ever had a mammogram.

PS – condoms are better at keeping aids away than circumcisions anyways

MissAnthrope's avatar

I have very strong feelings about this issue. I think it’s barbaric and completely unnecessary to circumsize. Much like I would never in a million years get my dog’s tail and ears docked, no way would I willingly mutilate a body that was beautiful and perfect, the way nature intended, just for aesthetic considerations. Doing so is unnecessary and cruel, in my opinion.

BBSDTfamily's avatar

We’re having a son in a few months and I don’t think we should circumsize him as I see no reason to force him into an unncessary surgery. My husband (who is) thinks that his son should “match” him, I guess because he likes being circumsized and because he thinks he won’t be able to adequately explain the little bit of extra “upkeep” require with an uncircumsized penis. Since he’s the one w/ a penis, I’m letting him decide. So, we will.

BBSDTfamily's avatar

@fundevogel I agree with you, however…. As “uncommon” as it is for there to be major complications from being uncircumsized, I know two grown men that have had to be circumsized in their adulthood b/c of issues they couldn’t avoid/ had no idea were happening. They both said it was excruciatingly painful even w/ pain meds, and they both wish they’d been circumsized as infants b/c at least then you don’t remember it. I don’t know the details (didn’t really feel I should ask!)

jackm's avatar

@BBSDTfamily
I was never explained the extra upkeep, but I figured it out. (just think, no one teaches you how to masturbate…)

also, is it really that awkward to tell a 6–7 year old boy to clean under his foreskin?

DominicX's avatar

@BBSDTfamily

Yes, but flukes are flukes. I wouldn’t agree with circumcising every male infant just because a few might contract a rare disease/disorder that would require circumcision in their adult life.

@jackm

I was told how to clean…there…and it was fine, even though my dad is circumcised.

BBSDTfamily's avatar

@jackm That makes sense. That story about the doctor cutting two boy’s penis off is really, really scary. I’m about to Google and see if I can get any info on how often that happens. Wow.

jackm's avatar

@BBSDTfamily
“Many parents are led to believe that circumcision is safer than leaving the penis in its natural form. What they don’t know is that one out of every 500 circumcisions results in a serious complication. [Schmitt] About 4 out of 100 are either considered unsatisfactory or result in some sort of complication.”

From this website. Those odds seem very very high. I would never risk it.

MissAnthrope's avatar

Yeah, then there’s that aspect.. all the more reason not to fix what ain’t broke.

poisonedantidote's avatar

some medical conditions requite it. my brother for example nearly needed to have it done as a small kid.

as a guy, a hetero guy. i have no idea what the difference is in bed. i suspect not much.

BBSDTfamily's avatar

@DominicX I agree. If doctors used to think it was medically best to do it a long time ago, fine. But we know now that it isn’t. It really is just a cosmetic procedure these days. I am still throwing the idea around at my husband, but at the same time am trying to consider his opinion too (even though I think my educated opinion is better than his “because I just think so” opinion!)

MissAnthrope's avatar

@poisonedantidote – Actually, uncut guys have more pleasure in the sack, or so I hear. The foreskin protects the head of the penis from the constant stimulation of rubbing against fabric and thus, against desensitization. Not to mention the foreskin is highly innervated and circumcision is associated with increased incidence of impotence. (link)

Circumcision Information and Resource Pages

fundevogel's avatar

@BBSDTfamily I don’t think we really disagree on this, but I think it worth mentioning that just because a baby doesn’t remember the pain doesn’t make it any less painful than when an adult is circumcised. I personally think, given the facts, its best to wait until there is a real medical reason to do it.
——
On a side note there’s a pretty fantastic circumcision story in the Bible. Shechem rapes Dinah, Jacob’s daughter. He says he loves her and wants to marry her and that he’ll do any thing to marry her. The whole thing has got Jacob and his sons incensed, but they’re out numbered by Shechem’s people. Most of Jacob’s sons were out tending sheep. So instead of refusing and showing their anger they tell Shechem that it is forbidden for Jewish girls to marry uncircumcised men. And not only that, but all of the Shechem’s clansmen would have to get circumcised too.

Apparently Shechem had a silver tongue because he convinced all the men to get circumcised. And then on the third day, when all the men were lying around in pain, Jacob’s sons snuck in and killed every man in the village and took their women and children as their own.

rooeytoo's avatar

@fundevogel – and is that to be considered a nice story? The bible is just such a lovely and spiritually enlightening, it just lifts my heart to the heavens.

ckinyc's avatar

Most men in Asia are not circumcised either (myself included). So I guess you get chopped only if you are borned in America!

fundevogel's avatar

@rooeytoo not at all, I’m in the habit of using “fantastic” with the more traditional definition of outrageous or unbelievable.

Iclamae's avatar

@jaketheripper , actually the reason many religions have it done is related to health concerns. The foreskin can store bacteria and viruses very easily and if not cleaned properly, can share these with a partner. Many health professionals now are considering this as a good reason to promote circumcision. And I don’t mean just STD’s, I also mean just plain lovely bacteria. So it really just boils down to if you’re circumcised, you should clean up a bit extra. But to be honest, any dirty penis is a not sexy penis. So, it’s debatable.

I’ve only been with uncircumcised, and to be honest the typical porn penis scares the hell out of me. I’m sure if I was actually dating a guy with a circumcised penis, it wouldn’t matter. But from far away, I’ll stick with what I’ve got.

fundevogel's avatar

@Iclamae I think the point where the mohel sucks the blood from the kid’s penis might undercut any health advantage circumcision may have. This is an extreme example, but there really there is no good reason to let anyone put their germy mouth on an open wound.

This is specific to traditional Jewish circumcisions.

Iclamae's avatar

@fundevogel, I’m fairly certain if a doctor in a hospital were to perform the circumcision, that would not be the practice.

fundevogel's avatar

I was just referring to the religious circumcision ceremony.

dpworkin's avatar

@augustlan The pendulum is swinging? You are just so cute sometimes.

CMaz's avatar

Duck butter

DrBill's avatar

the chances for infection is about the same in either case [when routine hygiene is practiced].

The foreskin aids in sexual performance, [that is its purpose] and short of injury, should never be removed.

I believe this to be both child abuse and a violation of the Hippocratic oath

hungryhungryhortence's avatar

I’ve seen both and prefer the look of circumsized but otherwise all else works the same. I’ve known one man who was circumsized because his foreskin pulled on his penis in one direction more than another and doctors “relieved” that. I’ve also known several adult (nephew included) men who weren’t circumsized as kids who’ve since gotten the surgery for aesthetic reasons after years of feeling odd or ugly. I’m not saying any of this is correct but they sure feel better now and to me, that’s what counts. Personally, the look of an uncircumsized penis doesn’t sexually excite me the way looking at a cut one does but that’s probably because I grew up thinking all penises were cut for health reasons, so they’d grow straight and and be cleaner. Even though I’m aware of both sides of the issue, if I were a man then I’d have myself cut.

Psychedelic_Zebra's avatar

@Sarcasm it was theft of something I was born with, and done without my consent, and for a religious reason based upon a theology I don’t believe in. Besides, I’ve talked to men with their foreskins, and the sexual sensations are by far better. And what @DrBill said ^ there.

Psychedelic_Zebra's avatar

Believe what you want, subject your infant children to being forcibly tied down, and forced to go through a procedure that takes about ten minutes, and uses little or no numbing agent because that causes swelling, on an organ no bigger than half of your littlest finger, it’s your life, your kid, do what you want.

But I hate my parents for what they did to me, and I cannot forgive them, and one more thing. The hospital makes money from all those chopped off foreskins, so if you have your kid’s penis mutilated, make sure the doctor pays you for that bit of flesh. Last I heard, sale of human body parts was illegal. I’m not sure how the hospitals get away with it, but I have spent the past twenty years talking with doulas, mothers-to-be, doctors, nurses and other people about this delicate subject, and I am thankful to have saved at least a half dozen young infant boys the pain of this barbaric and unnecessary procedure.

And as a final note. If you circumcise your child for religious purposes, remember, your son just may grow up and revert to the default belief, atheism. We are all born atheists; religion is a learned behavior. I defaulted to atheism, and I would love to have my foreskin back, simply for the fact it belongs there. There is also this, which people who use makeup should find quite disturbing.

Jayne's avatar

@Psychedelic_Zebra; I recognize that the practice is pretty much pointless and rather bizarre, but aren’t you getting a bit worked up about it?

jackm's avatar

@Jayne
Imagine if I cut off both of your pinky fingers right when you were born. You would be very justifiably angry your whole life at me.

Now imagine if I cut off every babies pinkys when they were born. Does this give each child less of a reason to be angry just because it happened to everyone else?

And we aren’t talking about just pinkys here, we are talking about the penis, mans prized possession.

casheroo's avatar

We had our son circumcised, and will have this next boy circumcised as well. I’m sure if my child hates me, it’ll be for other things than having him circumcised lol.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@Jayne I don’t think he’s getting ‘worked up’, personally…my partner feels just as strongly about it…his parents didn’t do it for a religious reason, they did it for no acceptable reason and he certainly wanted for this to be his decision…we have two male children and there would be no way in hell we’d ever have them circumcized…

Darwin's avatar

If you are going to circumcize anyone, just make sure it is done before puberty. Once puberty happens, certain moods wreak havoc on stitches.

I had a friend who had to be circumsized when in his 30’s. Long story, but it has to do with why men should never pee outside in Greenladn in the winter. On the whole he would have much preferred it to have been done before he could remember it or appreciate pretty nurses.

Jayne's avatar

@jackm; I am circumcised, and it does not bother me at all. The same goes for a good portion of the male population. A finger is very obviously useful, whereas the foreskin is not, or even if it is, that was not the commonly accepted medical consensus at the time most of us were circumcised; so that is not at all valid comparison. It really doesn’t matter either way, and it’s not a good reason to be angry. Perhaps, now that studies have been done that demonstrate there is some advantage to being uncircumcised, it is slightly irresponsible for parent to have the procedure performed; but really, not that big of a deal. And @Simone_De_Beauvoir, “I hate my parents for what they did to me, and I cannot forgive them” does rather sound like getting worked up to me.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@Jayne you know you got me thinking…i’m not a sappy person or anything…but i wonder, because of the pain and the trauma the infant experiences, if there’s some subconscious imprint left on your psyche for the rest of your life…even if you grow up all ‘normal’, iyo, and think it wasn’t such a big deal…as a mother (and I speak only for myself) who had a baby in the NICU for some time, there would be no more procedures I’d voluntarily do to my child that would cause pain to him…

in terms of the hatred of parents…you may think it’s getting worked up…but they consider this to be a real trauma

jackm's avatar

@Jayne
You dont think its useful because you don’t have it. If everyones pinkies were cut off at birth, we would all think they had no use because we were doing fine without them

Jayne's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir; well, since there is no evidence of this subconscious imprint, I’m going to maintain that it’s not a big deal. If it were, the entire Jewish population would have a higher rate of mental illness than, say the general European population.

@jackm; again, not a valid comparison. That would only make sense if no one had foreskins; as it is, anyone who wants to can conduct a study comparing the experiences of those with and those without foreskins, and figure out how useful they are. So far, the difference is minimal. There is some advantage to being uncut, which is why I said that the procedure is slightly irresponsible, but the difference is nothing to get upset over; and it’s certainly not something to be angry about, because your parents undoubtedly thought they were doing you a favor, whatever decision they made.

MissAnthrope's avatar

@Jayne – I feel like you should try to have a bit of empathy for the people who feel something was taken from them without their consent. I don’t have a penis, but I completely understand this mentality.. and just because you’re perfectly fine with it doesn’t make the practice okay. It just makes you okay with the fact it was done to you. You might want to do some reading on the foreskin and its role in sex.. check out the links I provided above. It’s not like having your earlobe cut off, the foreskin does serve a purpose.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@Jayne oh I don’t know if it’d necessarily result in mental illness…I’m not quite sure what it’d do…point is I took no chances

jackm's avatar

@Jayne
Cutting off your pinky would also have negligible effects, but people would still be angry over it.

Darwin's avatar

Another thing to keep in mind for those who were circumsized at birth – your parents tried to do what current thinking said was best for their child. Perhaps they were mistaken about its value, but they didn’t have you circumsized to be mean to you. They did it with the best of intentions, just as they did a lot of other things you didn’t and maybe still don’t agree with, such as making you go to bed too early, forcing you to eat vegetables, not letting you date the school slut, and so on.

In any case, it is a done deal. Move on with your life. Do the best you can for your own children, whatever that may be. And thank your parents for helping you grow up the best that they could.

casheroo's avatar

@MissAnthrope I do have empathy for those people. I think something else is actually mentally wrong with them if they put so much into the fact that they were circumcised. I believe they have underlying mental illness such as depression, or a rough upbringing for them to hold so much hatred and bitterness towards their parents for something like being circumcised. To me, it’s irrational and it shows the person is irrational.

SpatzieLover's avatar

I had my son circumsized…then again, as the doc said he had a natural circ (he had a tiny amount of foreskin) so it was definitely not painful for him.

I don’t do it for religious reasons, but instead for hygienic reasons. To the discussion as a whole, to each his own.

Jayne's avatar

@jackm; I don’t know about you, but I use my pinky a lot; I could not juggle or rock climb at nearly the same level without it, for starters.

@MissAnthrope; it’s irrational and counterproductive; why should I have empathy for people who indulge in this little bit of baseless self-pity?

Iclamae's avatar

@Jayne, I’m with your original statement. I’m not entirely sure how this conversation got so heated.
No I don’t have a penis, sure I can understand why some of you would be upset over being circumcised, but as @Darwin, said, you parents were trying to do the best thing for you, religious or hygenic reasons aside. They thought it would be good for you.
And waiting to ask you when you’re older may have only resulted in more pain for you. If you feel strongly about not circumcising your future children, all right, but I’m fairly sure this question wasn’t asked to start some huge freak out among the jellyfish population.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@Jayne saying that it’s baseless is not only insensitive but also self-serving…just because you think it’s baseless doesn’t mean it is

poofandmook's avatar

I think if I ever have a son, I will have him circumsized. And I say this because, sure, you can tell a 6–7 year old to clean the foreskin, but that doesn’t mean he’ll do it or do it correctly, and are you supposed to wash your kid’s junk until he’s old enough to practice good hygiene? Anybody ever have a kid who didn’t really feel like brushing his teeth, or didn’t do it well? I don’t see the difference, really… and if I can reduce my future son’s chances of getting an infection because kids will be kids, then I’ll do it.

SpatzieLover's avatar

@poofandmook This is why I chose to do it.

My in HS, my BF’s dad was (still is) a top urologist. I realized after seeing photos and discussions we’d had how vital circs can be. Having a young child, teen or adult male suffer through circumcision after having paraphimosis, balanoposthitis or even a bout of yeast infections due to lack of proper care/hygiene solidified my decision for circs.

jackm's avatar

@poofandmook
By that logic you should remove his teeth at birth so they don’t get infected.

DominicX's avatar

I say this every time circumcision is mentioned and no one ever responds to it, but I’ll say it again: how much of a problem is infection in countries like Denmark and Sweden where routine infant circumcision isn’t done?

poofandmook's avatar

@jackm: No, but it’s a lot less reason for trauma helping your kid brush his teeth than wash his foreskin.

SpatzieLover's avatar

@jackm Under your tooth theory:

I can brush my son’s teeth, floss them, get flouride treatments and take him to the dentist for care. I refuse to clean my son’s foreskin for him after a certain age, however. And, seeing visual proof of the possibilites, knowing the pain that he could go through was enough for me.

@DominicX I parent as I see fit with the knowledge I have. I’m certain you will do the same once you decide to become a parent.

Jayne's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir; how is it not irrational and baseless to feel a sense of loss and trauma because you don’t have a little bit of skin, the functionality of which is so marginal that it didn’t even seem to have any until a few years ago. And I object to this much less than to people actually blaming and harboring resentment towards their parents over it, which hurts the people who obviously thought they were helping their child.

@jackm; why exactly do you seem to think that there’s no difference between procedures that do little harm and might actually help, and ones that clearly do a lot of harm with very little benefit? Because, you know, there is quite a large difference.

bright_eyes00's avatar

I was discussing this with a friend and it turns out he isnt circumsized. He says he has no problem with it. He enjoys sex a hell of a lot more than he thinks he would have otherwise but he also said there are really not a lot of hygenic issues that come up with it. He says its like any other thing a person will have to do for themselves, in the cleaning aspect. He doesnt harbor any resentment towards his parents and he says that he wont have his sons circumsized but thats just him…personally, i’m starting to think that maybe uncircumsized might be the way to go for my future children.

Psychedelic_Zebra's avatar

@Jayne we don’t really need our teeth, let’s just yank them out of every kid who has them and install dentures instead. That way, our kids never need to worry about cavities, or abcessed wisdom teeth, or any of that. Dentures work just as well as the real crockery we are born with, and even better, as they do not harbor gum diseases.

@everyone else that has commented upon my original post: As to it being baseless self-pity, or irrational behavior, or what was it that @casheroo said? mental illness, well it’s a free country, I should be able to indulge in whatever harmless behavior I feel I am entitled to. My irrational behavior does no harm to you, so why do you even care? As for being pissed at my parents, who I know did the best they could for me with what they had to work with, and convential wisdom at the time, I’m not a complete fucking moron I can still feel a bit of betrayal towards them if I like. Perhaps when I said hate I used too strong of a word, but you know what? How I feel about my parents has absolutely no effect upon you whatsoever and it irks me that you find it necessary to bring it up. If I want to feel anything about MY family, what concern is it of yours? You aren’t related to me, and for all I know, we never will be. Those of you who have empathic and have looked at this with compassion, thank you. None of us are perfect; it’s nice when some people remember that. }:^)

And as for the foreskin not having any purpose, why in fucking hell do you think we evolved with the thing? It has as much use and importance as our opposable thumbs, and our toes, which don’t seem all that important until they are gone. chop off any one of your toes and go for a jog, I’ll wait for you to report back.~ This little bit of skin, as you so blithely call it, contains millions of nerve endings, specialized glands, and obviously serves some purpose, as every animal on the planet has its foreskin. We kill animals for food, but we sexually mutilate our own children for cosmetic reasons. Why be upset? Oh I don’t know, but it is as good as any other reason to be outraged. Perhaps you have other things you are compassionate about. This one is mine.

If you can’t understand it, perhaps I can suggest with the utmost respect that you might like to move on to the next question, sir.

SpatzieLover's avatar

Have a look see at some bacterial penial infections on the Net & you may re-think this stance on.

Iclamae's avatar

@Psychedelic_Zebra… Are you serious? Did you really say we “evolved” it? No sir, that’s not how evolution works.
And it’s not as important as your opposable thumbs. Circumcised men are not unable to function.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@Jayne it doesn’t matter to me what is logical or rational in your mind..what matters to me is if you said ‘look this is really traumatic to me’ ...that’s all…many intersex people feel this way as well about surgeries their parents okayed for them when they were young…they feel as if they didn’t have a say, as if something was done to their bodies without consent…that kind of thing matters to people, you can’t invalidate that…if it doesn’t matter, so fine, be it…but you can’t tell people their traumas are baseless…I mean obviously you can because you just did but you shouldn’t, imo…

parents don’t often make the best choices…parents circumcize often just because…sometimes one parent objects, but gets pressures into doing it to their kids anyway…sometimes both parents object but get pressured into doing it by their families…sometimes some women say they have no idea, apparently, about penis related issues and leave it up to their husbands (which I think is foolish as such a decision should be done by both parents)...not all parents have researched the options and chose circumcision for the right reasons…that is at the very least, an informative reason that they can back up with some sort of evidence…I don’t know the case of the poster above and his parents…yet I can understand why he’d be upset at them…

robmandu's avatar

< < Uncircumcised.

It definitely improves sensitivity.

And I cannot imagine what kind of mess you’ve got to be into where hygiene could be a problem. Really, there is no special care required at all.

Finally, while aroused, I can’t see where it’s substantially different in appearance from a circumcised cock.

DominicX's avatar

@SpatzieLover

Yes, and I believe my parents did the right thing by not having my brother and I circumcised and I see no reason not to follow their example. I’m still curious about the rate of penile infection in Europe, though.

SpatzieLover's avatar

@DominicX Australia has some stats on line for penile infections…didn’t see any for Europe..go look and see

jackm's avatar

It all comes down to this.

Nature gave us foreskins, society somehow decided to take them away (its rooted in stopping masturbation)

If your parents made the uninformed decision to cut, then you have every right to be angry with them.

@Jayne
Ok, lets say for some reason not having a foreskin is purely cosmetic, and there is no use for it.

What if I cut off your earlobes at birth? What if I made it so you could never grow hair? These are just cosmetic differences and the person could still fully function in life, but couldn’t they be very justified in being angry with me?

Psychedelic_Zebra's avatar

@Iclamae look, I’m not going to get into a pissing contest with you. I know people without thumbs (hell, I know people without arms) that can function in society. As for the evolution thing, did I somehow offend your version of how evolution works? I’m sure that I should bow before your giant brain, as you must surely know more than me as to how evolution works in the natural world. I’ve stated my opinions and the facts as I see them on this thread, if you want to argue against it, feel free. I am already finished here. Everyone knows how I feel about it, and if they want to judge me, my words, my ideals, and me in general, well, have at it. Judge away, I am not concerned with how people that want to dismiss me as irrational feel about me personally. I am moving on the the next question. My work is done here.

@Jayne, I’ve always found you to be very well informed and knowledgable on Fluther. I had a lot of respect for your intelligence and insight. After calling my concerns baseless, well, not so much anymore.

Jayne's avatar

@jackm; if those alterations cause them to be viewed as a freak, then yes, they would be justified. But if, like circumcision, the alteration was common and accepted, then no, that would be a silly reason to be angry.

jackm's avatar

@Jayne
So if it were anything more than a cosmetic change in your mind, you would be opposed?

robmandu's avatar

@jackm said, ”...society somehow decided to take [foreskins] away (its rooted in stopping masturbation)”?

What???

In Judeo-Christian and Muslim societies, it’s traced back to Old Testament times to signify the God’s covenant with Abraham and his male descendants.

In other societies, there could be other reasons, too. But for most of the western world, I think the root cause is accepted as known… and it’s not to squash masturbation. Nor do I even understand how it could.

jackm's avatar

@robmandu
When circumcision became big in the united states it was because doctors believed it would stop masturbation. Read the first link posted by @fundevogel

Jayne's avatar

@jackm; If it causes more harm then good, then I am opposed to the practice, in direct proportion to how harmful it is. Accordingly, I am very mildly opposed to circumcision.

Furthermore, if the harm it causes is obvious, then I place blame on the parents, in direct proportion to how obvious the harm is. Accordingly, I place no blame on parents who have circumcised their parents, because it was at the time generally accepted that the practice was beneficial, and the harm was not at all obvious.

jackm's avatar

@Jayne

Well then can you understand that people think it causes more significantly harm than good? If so, how can you not understand it when these people are angry?

Iclamae's avatar

@Psychedelic_Zebra
When I say that’s not how evolution works, I thought you were saying we developed it for some great purpose. The thing is that while that may have happened, it may have formed to protect the penis at one time, it is no longer necessary to do that. The function has been lost. Men without it still reproduce just fine.
I didn’t want to get into a pissing contest. I just don’t understand why everyone’s getting so angry over this and comparing it to completely different surgeries. It’s not the same as taking your child’s teeth and hair out. It’s more like taking their appendix out. And even that’s a slight stretch because there is an actual invasive surgery involved, which you wouldn’t do to a baby because it could threaten their life.

Jayne's avatar

@jackm; I can understand that they would wish they had not been circumcised, and why they would choose to forgo circumcision for their own children, or even why they would advocate that others do the same. I can’t understand why anyone would think that is worth being angry about, and I definitely can’t understand why people would think that they are justified in holding a grudge against their parents because of it. or rather, I can understand, I just don’t sympathize.

Simone_De_Beauvoir's avatar

@Jayne I don’t get it..you understand but still think it’s baseless..which is it?

Jayne's avatar

@Simone_De_Beauvoir; perhaps I use the word understand differently than you. Understand does not mean agree with. I understand the hypothesis of intelligent design, but I don’t agree with it.

Psychedelic_Zebra's avatar

the only reason people assume that circumcision is nothing to be concerned about is simply because it is the norm in America. While people can still reproduce without a foreskin, people can also reproduce without using a penis at all. Should we simply perform penenectomies on all male children since we have surgical grade basters and sperm banks?

I know I said I was done with this thread, but i just had to come back after getting a PM from the OP.

Sorry for any misunderstandings, any hurt feelings, and any wrong-headed views on my part. As for someone stating my feelings are baseless, well I do not have time to try and sway your way of thinking. Let’s just mark it down as a non-meeting of the minds. =) Have a great life.

Perhaps as time passes I will resume giving you GAs and GQs on Fluther. At this point in time, however, I see it as unlikely, but time heals all wounds, and also wounds all heels. ~

SpatzieLover's avatar

@Psychedelic_Zebra “the only reason people assume that circumcision is nothing to be concerned about is simply because it is the norm in America”

That’s not why I chose to do this. It is the norm for my religion and my family. I went above and beyond to search out both sides of the pros/cons and came to my own conclusion.

Psychedelic_Zebra's avatar

@SpatzieLover well good for you, at least you looked at both sides.

SpatzieLover's avatar

@Psychedelic_Zebra I do agree that many people don’t know the pros/cons of this and other medical concerns for their infants

DrBill's avatar

Cutting off any part of anybody without a medical reason, and without their inforned consent is illegal, except foreskin.

If you’re too lazy to properly wash your son’s penis, you should not be having children.

People will protest at the top of their lungs if a girl is circumsized, but think nothing of abusing a boy the same way. That is sex discrimination.

It is a very important part of sexual performance.

If you think it is because of Abraham and his descendants, congratulations on tracing your family tree for thousands of years [tic].

Iclamae's avatar

@DrBill, I would like to point out that your above statement is riddled with falsehoods and unnecessary slander.

For your female circumcision comment, you obviously have not actually read anything about it. It’s nothing like male circumcision. A piece:
“A major campaign of Saadawi’s organization before the government closed it was to halt female circumcision. “The majority of rural Egyptian women are still circumcised. Here they remove only the clitoris; they do not do the much more extensive procedure, but even so, there are many problems. Infection, bleeding, damage to the urinary tract, sepsis, even death. Later, it may cause pain during coitus, and psychological damage. In the villages it is performed on girls just before puberty, by untrained village midwives using any kind of knife or razor, without painkillers, and in unsanitary conditions. In the middle and upper classes, it may be carried out by a doctor. The reasons given for clitoridectomies in Egypt are ‘cleanliness,’ and ‘so that girls will not run after men.”’ In many societies, it is also believed that if the baby’s head touches the clitoris during delivery, the infant will die.” as per http://tinyurl.com/yqanks

a) removing the clitoris and sometimes more (as per wikipedia) is not the same as removing the foreskin. The clitoris is a major sexual stimulator and has twice the sensitivity of the head of a man’s penis (wiki: clitoris). While you can remove the clitoris and leave the woman able to reproduce, it is more akin to cutting off a penis’s head, which we are not discussing here. (The practice of female “circumcision” has been renamed to female genital mutilation because it’s not the same thing)
b) there’s pain during coitus with female “circumcision” whereas there is none for males with a few exceptions where the circumcision may not have been performed properly.
c)“So that girls will not run after men” is not at all a valid reason, which I’m sure everyone on this thread would agree with. If that were the question with male circumcision, we’d probably be unanimous.
d) The removal of the clitoris before puberty to avoid the woman’s killing a child later has no medical evidence. Removing the foreskin does indicate that it would reduce possible infection. It is a piece of skin that could hold bacteria and cause later infections.

~It is not a very important part of sexual performance. As the circumcised men have pointed out (perhaps in other questions), they have enjoyable sex perfectly fine.

It’s been made very clear here that this topic hits some psychological strings for some men, we get it. Fine, they won’t have their children circumcised in the future and they are very opposed to it for reasons X, Y, Z. It is unnecessary for you to call parents who are pro-circumcision unfit to have children and for you to be derogatory towards people with religious beliefs.

DrBill's avatar

@Iclamae

Maybe you should read my comment without your embellishment.

I do know about female circumcision, your words are a waste of keystrokes, since I was against it already.

I did not make any comment about pro-circumcision parents, I made a comment about Lazy parents. If it offends you, that says something about you.

I said nothing derogatory about having religious beliefs, I have some Myself

poofandmook's avatar

@DrBill: There definitely comes a time when the child is too old to have his penis washed by a parent. Unfortunately, he is not yet old enough to be able to do it correctly himself. doesn’t mean parents shouldn’t be having children.

DrBill's avatar

My son had no problem learning how to wash himself,

Iclamae's avatar

@DrBill Actually, I don’t feel the need to rebuff you. Your previous comment is clearly derogatory and uses a comparison that doesn’t work. If you don’t see it, maybe that says something about you.

DominicX's avatar

@DrBill

Neither did I. I think the difficulty of it is greatly exaggerated. Is there any evidence that during the age where they are too old to have it done by a parent but not old enough to do it properly that there is a higher rate of infection?

MissAnthrope's avatar

Could someone clarify what this age period is? I’m having a hard time with this idea because if the kid is old enough to bathe himself, he should be old enough to clean under his foreskin and understand why it’s important. Even a 4— or 5-year-old should be able to understand that. I completely understood at age 4 or 5 why I should use separate pieces of TP for front and back.

DrBill's avatar

@DominicX

In countries where boys are left intact, no

poofandmook's avatar

I’m noting for the record that I don’t have kids.

But I can tell you, as a kid who refused to brush her teeth correctly or at all, no matter how many times my dad scolded and taught and watched… something tells me there are about fifty-eleven little boys out there not properly washing their winkies.

robmandu's avatar

@poofandmook and I can tell you that it hardly matters a whit. As long as they bathe regularly, that alone is gonna suffice most of the time without requiring any special attention.

Cleanliness alone is not, for me, a reasonable justification for circumcision. That aspect is just not a problem from any meaningful statistical view.

sliceswiththings's avatar

I recently came into contact with my first uncircumcised penis. In three years of having sex (I’m 21), this guy was the first one I actually enjoyed it with. There are other factors (we didn’t use condoms, and I was actually with him for a while) that might have improved it, but it could also be attributed to being uncircumcised.

BUT he would get hurt. Basically if we didn’t use lube the foreskin would get pulled back and it would be really painful for him. Like, he’d be out of commission for a few days. I’m not sure if that’s normal.

Jack79's avatar

I’m not circumsized, neither is anybody I know (except for my best friend who had to do it for medical reasons). I found out recently (here on fluther actually) that it seems to be common practice in America, even among Christians. Christians in the rest of the world simply don’t do it as far as I know, haven’t done so for several centuries in fact, even though the first Christians did.

I have no idea what it means to be circumsized, so I cannot compare it to my own situation.

wasabi_rave's avatar

Sexually speaking… I don’t think it matters at all.
Cosmetically speaking… It seems that a large portion of our society portrays circumsision to be more attractive. Although it still doesn’t matter to me.
As for wether or not you should circumcise your child when he is born… I’m having a baby boy in December and although my hubby is circumcised, we have decided AGAINST it.
It doesn’t prevent disease (lowers urinary infections in young boys by a minisule % but teach your child to stay clean… just like teaching a baby girl how to wash and wipe properly.)
We are not religious.
I found out that when the procedure is done to an infant, they do not use any pain relief… only SOMETIMES something topically to reduce the pain. Some hospitals are strictly AGAINST any anesthesia/pain killers for the procedure! I find this quite horrifying and would never want to put my child through anything like that! “Welcome to the world, son!!! CHOP CHOP!” YIKES!
Other than doing it so he matches his father to avoid awkward questions…. I find it pointless.

DrBill's avatar

@wasabi_rave

I’m sure your son will thank you.

TitsMcGhee's avatar

I think I encountered an uncircumcised jew last night… Not what I was expecting at all.

fundevogel's avatar

must have been a secular Jew.

TitsMcGhee's avatar

Possibly. It was a wee bit disconcerting though, that’s for sure.

scotsbloke's avatar

I am uncircumsized, never had an issue, Never wanted to have my penis mutilated in anyway, and dont see the point, except for medical reasons maybe or maybe hygeine reasons (some people might think it’s more hygeinic) but daily washing, Lots of care and attention – no worries.
As the saying goes, It’s all good in the hood! (wahey!)

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