Social Question

Sebulba's avatar

What are your feelings on this?

Asked by Sebulba (854 points ) December 20th, 2009

I hope this link is not banned in the US for obvious i would say reasons
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/11/afghanistan_november_2009.html

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

120 Answers

PandoraBoxx's avatar

Yes, this is the way that it is. It is not the United States, or Western Europe. Starbucks, Coca Cola, and big box retail don’t go here. Landmines are part of the landscape since the Afghani war with the Russian. It’s a shame that the Reagan administration did not give aid to rebuild Afghanistan in 1983, after funding the mujahideen.

I’m curious as to what response you expected to receive, and why you thought this would be banned, as it’s a Boston Globe photojournalism essay.

StillStephanie's avatar

I could never live in that kind of atmosphere, i feel bad for those kids. :/

PandoraBoxx's avatar

The Afghanis are warm, generous and giving people. This is my favorite charity to give to. Check out the budget. Afghan School Project.

Sebulba's avatar

@StillStephanie it is not the choice of these kids to live there. they are born there

dpworkin's avatar

I’m more astonished by the naivete that was not fully aware of all this long before. Just how did you imagine war in such a culture would look? It’s time to get your news from someplace other than TV.

Sebulba's avatar

@pdworkin are you talking to me?

john65pennington's avatar

I only have one comment: why are we even there?

Sebulba's avatar

@pdworkin i don’t even have a tv

Response moderated
PandoraBoxx's avatar

@john65pennington, we’re there because we didn’t do the right thing in 1983, which was to fund stabilization of the area. This is what we should have funded. We gave billions to fund the mujahideen, but zero for reconstruction.

Sebulba's avatar

@PandoraBoxx you are there cause that is the choice of your private global banking system. Profit from a never ending war driven by a myth of terrorism

dpworkin's avatar

We disagree, but I don’t see how that makes it an occasion for name calling.

filmfann's avatar

This is war. It’s not pretty. People die, and lots of shit gets broken.
In America, we don’t ban photos like this. It is a basic part of our freedoms.

stranger_in_a_strange_land's avatar

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. Picture #28 shows the result of an incomplete detonation of a bomb belt. If it has gone off as designed, the head would be lying about 50 feet away and the rest completely shredded. Now I’ll go have lunch.

Sebulba's avatar

ok i’m sorry @pdworkin i take that back

Seek's avatar

@stranger_in_a_strange_land

I was wondering what would have caused that. Thanks.

Honestly, I think I’ve seen too many George Romero movies. That image didn’t even make me cringe.

sliceswiththings's avatar

Hey, I’m kind of scared to click the photo with graphic/questionable content. How bad is it?

Sebulba's avatar

you people all make me sick the way you see things! people die there for your bankers profit and you get here and talk about who is the new member of the 10k club! that is the US citizen! fucking great! thank you all for your answers

sliceswiththings's avatar

@Sebulba Of course we’ll talk about the 10K club because that’s what Fluther is. This isn’t a war discussion website. On a war discussion website, celebrating the 10K club would be inappropriate.

Sebulba's avatar

@sliceswiththings i know very well what fluther is. it is a website where discusions take place and it is really fucking great if these discusions where about exchanging opinions and talk about real problems of our lives. who cares for the fucking fake lurve?

PandoraBoxx's avatar

@Sebulba, My nephew spent the better part of year there as a humanitarian aid pilot. The rest of his time was spent in the Congo. This was not military service but personal choice. I give hundreds of dollars each year to the Afghani School, that is not a deductible donation because I live in the US. I do this because it’s positive and it’s what I can do. What do you do to help the situation that’s positive?

What do you do besides spout some sort of weird anti-American idealism? The world is hard, ugly place. Bad things happen to people. People do mean, bad things. It’s been that way since the dawn of time. You cannot fix that by rudeness or meaness to others.

dpworkin's avatar

Slow down. You are angry because some of us have enough experience to realize that mankind is capable of grim, ugly, foul, destructive behavior?

The entire population of my mother’s village in Ukraine was extinguished by being shot in the neck one by one, man, woman and child, and then shoved in a ditch by Einstazgruppe in the Summer of 1941. I lost Uncles, Aunts and Cousins.

It is horrible, revolting, insupportable. But human beings did it, and I know what humans are capable of. Will you spend the rest of your life now mourning for the people of Afghanistan, or do you think you might have a tuna sammich and pet a kitty one day?

Seek's avatar

@Sebulba

I understand what you’re driving at.

Yes. This is very tragic. It’s heartwrenchingly sad that such things are taking place in our world.

I am a 24 year old stay-at-home mom, living in suburban Florida. I was lucky enough to be born in a peaceful time in a peaceful country. Now my government is involved in questionable activities in another place, far from me, my family, and anything that directly affects my life. I am sad that these things happen, but there is quite frankly nothing I can do about it.

All I can do is be thankful for the life that I have, and not waste my life – the only one I have – being miserable over things I cannot change.

stranger_in_a_strange_land's avatar

@Sebulba If I constantly thought about all the scenes I’ve witnessed like that , I’d be even crazier than I am now. Its called war, people get hurt in wars, sometimes killed, sometimes even innocent people. We go there and build schools, roads, bridges and the Taliban blows them up.

Sebulba's avatar

to all you people: I know what war is bringing and i know that death and pictures like the pics you’ve seen are natural BUT. i say why??? What for? I say this is happening for national banking profit. What do you say? “I’ll go have a lunch”. And i am not anti-american. I believe 9/11 was done by your government so the way to Afghanistan and mass profit opens. Don’t think you live away from all this. You died for this. The world is cruel was WE ALL DON’T FUCKING CARE! i don’t make the world cruel. You don’t make the world cruel. It is the national bank and its few members that make it. For god’s sake!

Seek's avatar

@Sebulba

And…. what do you want me to do about it?

Seek's avatar

Personally, I’m going to make my son some lunch, and put him down for a nap. Then I’m going to put my comforter in the washing machine and do the dishes. That’s my life.

Sebulba's avatar

@Seek_Kolinahr even the slightest thing that i do know is “doing something”
and this is not the only thing that i do

Seek's avatar

@Sebulba

…what?

Sebulba's avatar

@Seek_Kolinahr i am sorry but this is not called life

stranger_in_a_strange_land's avatar

@Seek_Kolinahr Good for you. That’s why the troops are over there, so you can raise your family in peace here.

PandoraBoxx's avatar

This is no different the brutality that occurred in the United States during the American Revolution and the westward expansion, except that the means to the end were different. Due to technology, we don’t have the images to see it in graphic detail.

In the Serbo-Croatian war, violence was directed towards women in order to make them want to leave their homeland and never return. Pregnant women where bayonetted and disemboweled of their infants, young girls raped in the presence of their mothers, then their mothers raped. In war, people commit acts of atrocity to try to win more quickly.

If you want to blame banking, blame Switzerland.

Seek's avatar

@stranger_in_a_strange_land

And I’m glad it worked out that way. I’m a horrible shot. Bad eyesight. I’d be no good in war.

Sebulba's avatar

@stranger_in_a_strange_land peace? i just said 9/11 was an act of your goverment…

Sebulba's avatar

and something else…billions of dollars are spent for the peace you want to have against an invisible fake enemy terrorism. do you know how much money is spent by your government against true enemies like cancer? not even the 1/1000 of that

Seek's avatar

@Sebulba

You miss the point – Complain all you want on internet forums. No one who can make a difference is listening. You’re just making noise. And it’s not even entertaining noise – which is all we’re looking for here.

dpworkin's avatar

@Sebulba That theory of 9/11 is entirely discredited. There are a few whackos and conspiracy theorists who still try to spread it around. What you need, once again, instead of just engaging in hysteria, is to do some serious self-educating on these issues, because you seem to be very naive. Now you may call me names again. I’m out.

Sebulba's avatar

@Seek_Kolinahr we the people of the world are the only ones who can make the difference

Sebulba's avatar

@pdworkin i can prove what i say…unlike you…

Seek's avatar

A very romantic notion, but entirely untrue. Again I ask – what could, say, someone like me do? Nothing. I could get on the internet and blog and complain… but that would be as much a waste of time as what you’re doing.

The only voice I have in the world is my vote, which I cast at every opportunity given. I can’t help it if there is never a good candidate. Lincoln died 150 years ago. I’m sorry.

dpworkin's avatar

@Sebulba No, you can’t. You can show me the arguments, but they do not constitute proof. If you could prove it, then we could prosecute the people who did this for mass murder. The whole world would be up in arms against them. The nation would rise as one to bring justice to them. We want the criminals punished. The reason this hasn’t happened is that it isn’t true.

Sebulba's avatar

@Seek_Kolinahr it is not romantic. the people who run things are all corrupted so your vote can do nothing. Obama is sending more troops to Afghanistan…do you think it really matters who you vote?

Sebulba's avatar

@pdworkin believe me i can. in the next few days i will be posting questions with FACTS that you can’t ignore. I’ll be waiting for you to answer then…

sliceswiththings's avatar

@Sebulba You have proof??? Then by all means present it to the government! We can finally prosecute someone for it.

Also, @Sebulba, you’re not going to change anyone’s mind on here. May I ask what you do to oppose this war? As a student there is little I can do, but I cast my vote accordingly and I go to anti-war demonstrations and protests whenever I can. This is not news to anyone; if there was simply something we could do we would have done it years ago…

Seek's avatar

@Sebulba

Further demonstrating the point that I have no power over the fate of this world, and even discussing it is a waste of time.

Now, I have to finish cooking my son’s lunch. He’s hungry.

dpworkin's avatar

@Sebulba, don’t wait a single second. Present your proof immediately to the head of the FBI, so that we can go after those bastards. You will become an international hero, and the rest of your life you will be able to live in comfort amongst your accolades.

Sebulba's avatar

@sliceswiththings was anyone of the so-called terrorists ever prosecuted? even the passport of the man found on the world trade center to prove that it was done by someone called Ali-Mohamed (whatever) was crazy! The man was alive and well miles away from there!

Sebulba's avatar

FBI knows very well what happened there. They don’t expect me to tell them!

ccrow's avatar

You asked “What are your feelings on this?” People have answered you. Perhaps you should have included in the details what constitutes the ‘right’ way to feel about it.~

Sebulba's avatar

FBI agent were cleaning the site of crash at the pentagon where no plain proved to have crashed! All the cameras looking there from other buildings were confescated by FBI agents @pdworkin

dpworkin's avatar

This has disintegrated into irrational paranoia. Get some help.

Sebulba's avatar

ah now i am being paranoid…yes that is very wise to say. thanx

PandoraBoxx's avatar

@Sebulba, Perhaps you need to start in your OWN BACKYARD if you’re concerned about landmines in Afghanistan. Greece has given no financial support for their removal since 1995. Afghanistan is the heaviest mined country in the world, thanks to the war with the Russians.

Start there.

Sebulba's avatar

@PandoraBoxx thanx for the advice! I’ll start right away. You go do something perfect in your perfectly protected country

PandoraBoxx's avatar

And you in yours. thanks to NATO and the US.

Sebulba's avatar

yeah thanx to the US my country’s economy is falling appart. Now you would say what US has to do with your country’s economy. You wouldn’t know that would you?

Sebulba's avatar

I’ll just say this to you. Both Greece and Turkey are members of NATO and both are spending most of their money to buy US planes and ships and guns and missiles and this is carefully politicaly driven by your governments for 30 years now.

Sebulba's avatar

Buy all thanx for the discussion. i have work to do. I hope at least you feel like you exchanged opinions with me. Not fighting with me. It was me against all! lol

CIA's avatar

We here are all eager to know how an engineer from Greece came to know the truth and have proof no less.

sliceswiththings's avatar

“Lol?” Not really. I don’t think anyone here is laughing.

Sebulba's avatar

I am only one of the millions that know the truth. Tell me @CIA what is your proof that 9/11 was an act of Osama Bin Landen?

Seek's avatar

@sliceswiththings

It’s OK. No one actually laughs when they say “lol”.

Sebulba's avatar

I’ll never do my work! I am stuck here! ahhh

Sebulba's avatar

ok since i am stuck here and you are all “not-laughing” i will give you some facts of the 9/11 and you’ll tell me how you see them ok?

Sebulba's avatar

someone give me a fact that suggests that 9/11 was an act of Osama Bin Landen! cmon @CIA you got to know something!

Seek's avatar

@Sebulba

You’ve threatened us with proof several times now. Are you ever going to deliver?

dpworkin's avatar

Google “truther” and you will get thousands of pages of the bullshit that she’s going to post next.

Sebulba's avatar

ok. lets start. Your government said after 9/11 “There were no warning signs that something like that could happen” and “We could never imagine something like that” The first was said by an FBI whatever sucker and the second by Bush. USA Today revieled that two years before the attack the US defence military conducted excersises using highjacked airliners as weapons and one target was the world trade center

Shemarq's avatar

Ok, I think 9/11 is retaliation against the assassination of John F. Kennedy and the alien that is being stored at Area 51. I can prove it because of some prophecies that were written hundreds of years ago that I was able to interpret and twist to say what I want them to say. Don’t forget the world ends in 2012 anyways because the Mayan calendar says so. Well its the last day it shows. I wonder if the world is really going to end on December 31st because that’s the last day on my calendar.

Sebulba's avatar

There is also the operation Mascal on 2000 simulating a crash on the Pentagon. Tell me your thoughts and i will continue with FACTS

Seek's avatar

Sounds like a lot of circumstantial evidence and a big wad of bullshit.

Sebulba's avatar

look @Seek_Kolinahr if this looks bullshit to you just because you don’t want to believe it then why should i continue? I speak with facts. Search them if you want

Sebulba's avatar

should i continue?

dpworkin's avatar

Isn’t it time to stop feeding this troll? No. Don’t continue.

Sebulba's avatar

ok i just started. there were much more shocking facts coming…

Seek's avatar

Oh, but I have all this troll bait lying around… Ah, fine.

Buzz off

Sebulba's avatar

you people are really pathetic you know…you closed your minds and thats it! nothing more! “leave us alone to live our sad little lives you consiracy theorist” troll? wtf? i am giving you facts! and you don’t want to know! you are pathetic! nothing more than that. I have said none lie. Search if you want for your own. Oh no you won’t…cause you’re pathetic

Shemarq's avatar

Sounds like a teenager having a tantrum.

Sebulba's avatar

sounds like you’re all sleeping awake and you like it. that is great

Seek's avatar

I’ve already made it perfectly clear that I enjoy my life, and understand that I have no power to correct the injustice in the universe. Perhaps you can get some theists to stand around a flagpole and petition their imaginary friends for help. That will do as much good as whining on Fluther.

sliceswiththings's avatar

@Sebulba
1. I think you should probably learn Osama Bin Laden’s name before you can discuss current events.
2. Check it out

Sebulba's avatar

@sliceswiththings i said only the first of 30 facts i would deliver to you
i speak the easily searchable through the internet truth that even CIA and FBI will reassure you it is true. now what is your objection people?

Seek's avatar

Objections:

Annoying
Pointless
Probably untrue, but even if it were, complaining about it still annoying and pointless.

Sebulba's avatar

i am not complaining about it! you asked for facts and i give you facts. it is not untrue and i can’t just prove it to you if you don’t want to just go and search it for your own!
if i am annoying you could just press “don’t follow this question”
i believe it is not pointless when so many people died on 9/11 and most of americans believe it was Bin Landen or don’t even care about it

sliceswiththings's avatar

@Sebulba We asked for facts, not bullshit.

Seek's avatar

*Laden.

Bin LADEN.

Seriously, man. Do you not pay attention to ANYTHING?

Sebulba's avatar

@sliceswiththings ok i gave you bullshit.what was the bullshit? that Bush never said “we never imagined something like that?” or that US Today never exposed the terrorism excersises i said above? what is the lie i gave you? the Mascal project is bullshit?
and @Seek_Kolinahr of all the things i said what matters is my spelling? where is your mind people? I am Greek i am sorry my spelling may be crap sometimes but you understand what i say don’t you?

Seek's avatar

I’ve brought up issues with everything you’ve said so far, and the only thing you respond to is correcting your spelling? Where is your mind? Oh, that’s right, it’s coated in tinfoil, awaiting contact from the Mothership.

sliceswiththings's avatar

@Sebulba Calling what you have presented “facts” and “proof” is bullshit. “Facts” are commonly known. If it was commonly known and agreed upon, things would be very different in this country.

Response moderated
Sebulba's avatar

and imagine i didn’t even started! i just said one thing and you all got crazy! my god i imagine what would happen if i would give you more facts you call bullshit

Seek's avatar

And now I’m going to simply copy/paste my prior comment:

You miss the point – Complain all you want on internet forums. No one who can make a difference is listening. You’re just making noise. And it’s not even entertaining noise – which is all we’re looking for here.

Response moderated
Zen_Again's avatar

Wow. That took forever to load. You should forwarn next time @Sebulba – and in your details write a little something. But the photos were amazing – like watching a Nat’l Geographic special. What was the question again – I don’t feel like scrolling up 100 responses?

Sebulba's avatar

we went completely out of course here Zen. You probably don’t want to read all this. I almost got sick struggling here against retardness. And completely dissapointed…

Sebulba's avatar

and if you liked it watch this national geographic special
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/11/national_geographics_internati.html

sliceswiththings's avatar

@Sebulba Now you are just being offensive. “Retarded” is not a word to throw around. I’m sure I’m not the only person on here who has a mentally retarded loved one.

We will all push the “stop following” button when we are ready to. I am going to restate what @ccrow said:

You asked “What are your feelings on this?” People have answered you. Perhaps you should have included in the details what constitutes the ‘right’ way to feel about it.

So you said “I just said one thing and you all got crazy!” You’re saying we got crazy by presenting our opinions, which happen to differ from yours? By answering your question?

This is not a site to project your opinions, but rather to seek others’. Here they are.

Sebulba's avatar

I am sorry @sliceswiththings but all of you offended me first. And above all i can’t accept ignorance from the people of a nation that kills millions of inocent people every year through wars against terrorism and other invisible enemies

PandoraBoxx's avatar

@Sebulba, I love that you keep using the Boston Globe’s photojournalism pages. That being the case, wouldn’t you assume that using a US news source is an indication of US awareness.

I have one degree of separation from 4 people who died on 9/11—1 in the second tower, and 3 who were on planes, about 30 “near misses”—people who should have been in the Towers that morning, or in the Pentagon building, doing an inspection of the renovation, but by circumstances of fate were not. I don’t live anywhere near New York City. So please, STFU about what you think you know about a very complicated issue.

sliceswiththings's avatar

@Sebulba We’re ignorant because we don’t believe you? We know what’s going on, thanks. We live here. We know people who were killed in 9/11. We know people in Iraq and Afghanistan. We know families that have lost their children in the war. We don’t sit in our big expensive houses covering our eyes and ears as you think we do.

Sebulba's avatar

you think you know. i know @PandoraBoxx
but i am willing to listen to you if you have anything to tell me besides STFU. you are not

Sebulba's avatar

@sliceswiththings you just exposed here today all of you that you know nothing besides what the tv gave you

sliceswiththings's avatar

I actually don’t own a tv, @Sebulba. I read the paper. The Boston Globe. I listen to the radio.

Tell us, what does PandoraBoxx erroneously thinks she knows? She never stated that she knows the truth, just that you don’t.

Sebulba's avatar

i said i will give you some facts people and i am willing to discuss them with you and you all said “these are not facts.this is bullshit” from the first fact that i gave you. in my eyes this looks like brainwashed blind followers of the mass media. what does it look in your eyes?

Sebulba's avatar

“we don’t have to search what you say!you’re a conspiracy theorist!”
“you think you know better than us liveng here? you know bullshit about 9/11”
sad for you what i know came from a little group of americans who also live there and how they convinced me is by true unquestionable facts

ratboy's avatar

@Shemarq: where did you get my picture?

PandoraBoxx's avatar

A little group of Americans who live where?

sliceswiththings's avatar

And how does one little group of Americans represent the whole country? Fluther includes a BIG group of Americans, many of whom are opposing you. Why them over us?

Seek's avatar

I’m still waiting for someone to tell me what the hell I’m supposed to do to make Sebulba happy, anyway.

I mean, regardless of whether I believe what they’re saying, it doesn’t change a damned thing. Not a single life will be affected by the notion that I buy into a conspiracy theory as opposed to the widely-accepted belief system.

All I ask is “What’s the point?”

syz's avatar

1. Your question as posted is ridiculous. I hardly think anyone will look at pictures of war with anything but regret and sorrow.
2. You seem to have an agenda, and have no interest in discussing alternate points of view, investigating sources of information, or providing reputable sources to support your own views.
3. You resort to personal attacks and are unable to articulate how you expect people to respond to your posts.

For these reasons, I cna only hope that this thread has come to it’s conclusion.

CaptainHarley's avatar

Why in the world would any of these pictures be “banned” in the US? Your idea of freedom of speech and of the press is very distorted.

Response moderated
dpworkin's avatar

You have a strange fantasy about what it is like to live in the US. I don’t know where you get your information on our media sources, but nothing like that has ever been banned here. It simply is not possible. We have a tradition of freedom of the press that goes back to our very beginnings. How do you suppose that the Pentagon Papers were made public, or that Watergate ended the Nixon presidency?

syz's avatar

Ouch. I am irreparably damaged.

SuperMouse's avatar

@Sebulba let me begin by directing you to some interesting, lucid, and compelling discussions right here on Fluther – the very same board that celebrates lurve and you claim is full of retards – regarding the September 11th terrorist attacks.

My problem with this entire thread is not the point you are trying to make (that is if I have surmised the point correctly – it got lost after your first obnoxious comment), but your surly belligerent attitude. You asked what The Collective thinks of those pictures and immediately started attacking people for the responses you received. What I find especially interesting is that you berate @Seek_Kolinahr and jellies in general because we aren’t doing anything to stop this war and a few posts later you say there is nothing that can be done because the big banks are running the war. Make up your mind sir. Are all US citizens retards who refuse to stand for anything or are we powerless wimps?

Finally, my suggestion to you @Sebulba is to hit the pavement. Find a website with people who are at your intellectual level and are capable of grasping the complex theories you understand so thoroughly. Why subject yourself to the torture that is dealing with The Collective?

ccrow's avatar

Here I am, brain the size of a planet…

augustlan's avatar

[mod says] Personal attacks are not permitted and have been removed.

Response moderated

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