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mcclatchey's avatar

I'm scared that my goldfish won't make it through the night, what can I do?

Asked by mcclatchey (24points) January 5th, 2010

My two goldfish are spending a lot of time at the bottom on the tank with their back fins down. When they do swim, they seem to drift around then have spasms. They are also swimming directly into the water stream coming out of the filter. What can I do?

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40 Answers

rangerr's avatar

How long have you had them?

Response moderated
scotsbloke's avatar

Are there any signs of disease on them? have you changed the water recently – is the water aerated? are they eating?
If they are old fish they may be near the end of thier life, if they have any wee white spots then you can get stuff from the Pet Shop, You’ll be wanting to check the alkalinity of the tank water, make sure the filter isnt clogged, basic tank maintenance.

mcclatchey's avatar

Ive had them for about 2 months.

There are no signs of disease, have changed 50% water about an hour ago, filter is near the surface so the water is agitated.

May I ask why are people so insensitive? I appreciate help not comments about them dying, if I though this was a joking matter, I wouldn’t ask for help at all!

Dog's avatar

[Mod Says:] Please be considerate and remain on topic. Off topic remarks will be removed.

[Not as a mod] @mcclatchey I am sending your question to one of our flutherites that is well versed in fish care. Perhaps he will really help.

Response moderated
mcclatchey's avatar

I say ChazMaz, don’t bother anwering at all it your not going to help!

gemiwing's avatar

This is a very basic question, so I apologize, but did you remember to de-chlorinate the new water and make sure the water temps were the same?

mcclatchey's avatar

gemiwing, yes I have used water conditioner, as advised by the petshop

dpworkin's avatar

A good local pet store will analyze you water for you, and explain how to correct it. Goldfish do well in cooler temperatures than tropical fish, and they also prefer harder water with some salt content. If you are treating them like tropicals instead of carp, which is what they are, they will not thrive.

scotsbloke's avatar

I found this info: Long winded but maybe of use:
____________________________________________

The info below indicates some of the most common disease signs, and details further steps to take to help confirm a diagnosis.

Clinical Signs

Possible Causes
The sudden death of many fish over a short period of time with few preceding symptoms. Surviving fish hang around the water surface / stay on the bottom and may lose equilibrium. They are lethargic and don’t eat.

1) Acute poisoning. Water should be tested for core parameters and fish examined for signs of severe parasite or bacterial infection. If possible, post mortem recently dead fish. If these are negative carry out a 75% or more water change on the presumption of some (as yet, unknown) toxin. Send water sample away for toxicology testing.

2) Low dissolved oxygen levels. Measure levels in pond/ filter early in morning when DO levels at at their lowest

3) Peracute bacterial disease. Diagnosis would require post mortem and aseptic bacterial sampling of organs

Fish rub against solid objects and “flash” when they turn to rub their sides giving a flash of silver colour as their undercarriage is exposed. They may also leap out the water.

This indicates some form of irritation of either the skin or gills.

1) This could be caused by raised levels of ammonia, nitrite or high/low pH. Widely fluctuating diurnal shifts in pH can also cause irritation. Check all water parameters.

2) Irritation can also be caused by ectoparasites such as flukes, Trichodina, white-spot etc on the skin or gills. Do a skin scrape of 2–3 fish. Examine the gills.

Fish swim normally but appear to be breathing heavily. (This can be judged by operculum movements).

Fish appear to be gasping, they may crowd water inlets

1) Hypoxia. Dissolved oxygen levels may be low, test levels early in morning.

2) Poor water quality causing gill hyperplasia, excess mucus production or nitrite toxicity. Check ammonia, nitrite levels and pH. Check that pond and filters are clean

3) It could indicate the early stages of gill disease. If the condition persists it is important to examine 2–3 fish for gill parasites or gill disease.

4) Gill parasites. Take gill and skin scrapes

5) Anaemia. Gills look pale

Individual fish stay apart from others. Breathing is normal. They may refuse food. They may have “cloudy” or grey areas on the skin. There are no other physical signs.

Lethargy and inappetence are common symptoms of many diseases, so further investigation is essential

1) Fish may be suffering from a parasite problem. Take a skin and gill scrape. Examine the gills.

2) There could be internal disease problems

3) Early stage of systemic bacterial infection. Isolate and observe

4) Test core water parameters

Several fish are lethargic. Fish are not eating or eating very little.

Fish are skittish and shy. Some fish may have split or ragged fins

Lethargy and inappetence are common symptoms of many diseases, so further investigation is essential

1) Poor watery quality. Check ammonia, nitrite, pH.

2) High levels of organic pollution.

3) Ectoparasite infestation. Check 2–3 fish for parasites or gill problems.

4) Early stage of bacterial disease. Examine fish for lesions, inflammation and ulceration.

Overproduction of gill and/or skin mucus. Grey slime/ trailing mucus. May be accompanied by rubbing/flashing, heavy ‘breathing’ and/or lethargy.

1) Ectoparasites. Take skin and gill scrape

2) Poor water quality. Test core parameters

Skin lesions or ulcers

Reddening or inflammation on the body or fins. Raised scales. Localised swelling. Open wounds or lesions that do not heal within a day or two

1) Physical damage. This will normally present as a ‘clean’ lesion with little inflammation. Usually heals within days. Always a risk of secondary infection.

2) Local tissue irritation caused by ectoparasite infection. Take skin and gill scrape

3) Bacterial disease

4) Water quality problem. Test core parameters

5) High levels of organic pollution. Check pond and filters for decomposing solids

Focal red or white lesions on the body

Larger ectoparasites such as lice, leeches or anchor worms. These parasites are normally visible with a close examination

Fin rot

Frayed, split or ragged fins. Possibly with whitish edge and some reddening of the fins

1) Bacterial infection

2) Ectoparasite infection. Take skin and gill scrape

3) Poor environmental conditions. Test core parameters and check that the pond and filters are clean

4) Physical damage

5) Over crowding

6) Saprolegnia (fungus) infection

7) Columnaris infection (mouth fungus/cotton wool disease)

Fish has swollen abdomen (dropsy). Possibly raised scales and some reddening on the body or fins. They may possibly exhibit pop-eye (exophthalmos)

1) Viral infection.

2) Systemic bacterial infection. leading to ‘dropsy’ (build up of fluid in the abdomen. Can be differentiated from tumour by shape, symmetry and feel (feels soft and fluidy)

3) Neoplasm (tumour). Can usually be determined by size, shape (usually asymmetric) and palpation (feeling – usually hard)

4) Heart or kidney disease. Can only be diagnosed by post mortem

5) Internal parasites (endoparasites)

6) Genetic disorder

7) Intestinal blockage. Only established at post mortem

Fish have respiratory problems shown by gasping or laboured gill movements. Gill examination shows areas of necrosis (dead tissue), mottled appearance, heavy mucus.

1) Bacterial gill disease

2) Viral infection

3) Branchiomyces (gill rot)

4) Gill parasites. Take biopsy/ scrape for microscopic examination

Tiny white spots over the skin and fins, as though fish has been sprinkled with salt. Usually with thickened mucus

Ichthyophthirius (white spot). Definitive diagnosis by skin scrape

White or or discoloured ‘cotton-wool’ patches on the skin or fins. Often accompanied by inflammation and skin erosion

1) Saprolegnia (fungus) infection

2) Columnaris infection (mouth fungus/cotton wool disease). Take sample for microscopic examination which would show typical long ‘gliding’ bacteria (Flexibacter sp).

Swellings on the skin

1) Parasitic cysts. Take ‘deep’ skin scrape

2) Physical damage. Examine fish and observe

3) Bacterial infection. Usually accompanied by inflammation and raised scales. Examine fish for inflammation and/ or raised scales.

4) Internal tumours

Growths on skin / fins

Tumours or viral infections such as;

1) ‘carp pox’, which resembles melted wax poured over the fins or skin

2) papillomas, ‘warty’ types of growths, can be quite large, smooth or cauliflower-shaped, white, red or pink

3) lymphocystis, various sized, white to pink masses on the skin and/or gills. Diagnosis is by microscopic examination of ‘wet mount’ taken from the lesion.

* There are no treatments for these growths. They are usually benign and often self-resolving. There is always the risk of secondary bacterial infection

Corneal Opacity (cloudy eye)

1) Physical damage

2) Nutritional deficiencies

3) Poor water quality

4) Bacterial infection

Skeletal deformities / kinked spine

1) Electrical shock. Faulty electrics or lightening strike

2) Use of organophosphates

3) Nutritional imbalance

4) Genetic abnormalities

5) Muscular damage / physical damage

6) Toxins

Unless there is an obvious known problem, it is difficult to establish the cause. A radiograph (sort of x-ray) would assist for skeletal problems

Loss of equilibrium with fish unable to stay upright. Fish may be able to maintain position when swimming, but turn over when they stop swimming.

1) Swim-bladder disorder / disease caused by viral or bacterial infection, constipation (mainly fancy goldfish) or other organ disease.

2) Internal organ disease, i.e. kidney / intestinal disease or blockage. Usually only established at post mortem

Lethargy, weight loss, chronic mortality. There may be worms protruding from anus

1) Internal parasites (endoparasites). Requires blood sample, wet mounts from dissected tissues and wet mounts of faecal sample

gemiwing's avatar

How long have they been at the bottom?

El_Cadejo's avatar

You’ve had them for only 2 months correct?
i mean none of these questions in a negative way, im just trying to get a feel for the situation.
Have you kept fish before?
What are your feeding habits? What do you feed?
What are the tank temp, pH, nitrate,nitrate,and ammonia levels?
How often do you clean your tank?What is your routine?

i believe i read above you said no visible blotches or anything on the fish right?

mcclatchey's avatar

they have behaving like this for the last ⅔ days, but the darting/spasms has worsened tonight. They tend to stay at the bottom for a little while, before darting around and returning to the bottom again. However, as Ive been on here they have been swimming into the stream of water coming from the filter.

uberbatman – i havent kept fish before, but am trying my best to learn. I feed them once in morning and once in evening, as also have 4 minnows in tank. I dont do home testing of temp, ph levels etc because wouldnt know how. I did however take a sample of water to pet shop and all but one test was incorrect. I was told to change 20% water 3 times in a week and take another sample (which is due tomorrow) I use a gravel cleaner to clean the tank, use the removed water to clean plants. I did also have 2 platys in there but they have died over the last two days! Really worried about the fish I have left!

dpworkin's avatar

You can’t really keep other fish with your goldfish. They require differing environments. What will sustain the platys will not be good for the goldfish, and vice versa.

mcclatchey's avatar

I realised platys were not the best choice when reading about them, unfortunately this was after I had got them home.

gemiwing's avatar

How big is your tank?

Dog's avatar

@uberbatman Yay! Thanks for dropping in!
Uber is a fish master.You should see uber’s fish tanks!

gemiwing's avatar

@uberbatman do you have pics of your tanks?

Response moderated
El_Cadejo's avatar

@mcclatchey fish seem a bit daughting to keep at first with all the tests and whatnot but its quite easy once you get the hang out it. Next time your at the pet shop buy a little thermometer for your tank, theyre only a couple bucks. You can also get a 5in1 test kit that will tell you all your basic things.

Is there a heater in this tank? As pdworkin said those fish are from different climates. Goldfish like cold water, the platys you mentioned like warmer water.

Your tank is a bit small for that many fish IMO , especially considering 2 of which are goldfish.(extremely dirty fish) (the general rule is inch of fish per gallon of water, and thats talking about their full grown size, not when you buy them)

One very important thing to remember about fish. NEVER EVER EVERRRRR Buy fish on a impulse. ALWAYS do your research on the fish you want first. Make sure it can go well with all your other fish and wont cause any sorts of problems. Believe me, one wrong purchase can destroy your whole tank, ive seen it happen many times.

@gemiwing here be some pictures for you and this is waldo my frogfish :)

El_Cadejo's avatar

@ChazMaz your not helping…. i seriously dont get wtf peoples problems are when it comes to fish, its like suddenly they’re not animals anymore. If this was a quesiton about a sick dog im sure you wouldnt say fuck it, let it die, but no since its fish thats cool. What makes one creatures life more valuable than others?

CMaz's avatar

I did not mean to upset you.

But your description, a common Goldfish tail, sounds pretty much DOA.

CyanoticWasp's avatar

Well, since my earlier response was considered improperly respectful or something, I offer this instead:

Let’s consider first principles here:
Your fish are dying. It is unlikely that they will survive the night, given the symptoms you describe. Perhaps you can take heroic measures to save them, and be successful. Given that goldfish cost a few dollars apiece at most, don’t give a lot of interaction, and can’t catch a frisbee even after repeated attempts to train them (ask me for documentation on that), I question how far you plan to go with heroic attempts.

There seems to be some advice here, though I can’t vouch for its quality. I really do wish you good luck in keeping the fish alive. Prolonged agony prior to death is hell to experience, I’m sure, and must also be upsetting to watch.

Personally, I suggest that you kill them mercifully and put them out of their misery. This is the same advice I’d give to someone with a beloved dog or cat with incurable illnesses and great distress—or even a “curable” illness that you couldn’t afford.

If you’re afraid of that death thing, then perhaps that’s what we should address.

We all die. Even cute little puppies and kitties die. I’ll die. My kids will die. My parents have already died, and their parents, too. Unfortunately, so will you. Your fish—definitely.

Embrace the fact. Live with it. Enjoy your own life, and enjoy the fishes while they live in apparent good health. Don’t expect them to live forever, and don’t make them die a slow and agonizing death.

And clean your toilet.

El_Cadejo's avatar

why do people think goldfish are stupid? You know they can learn right?

dpworkin's avatar

@CW whether or not these particular fish die is a little beside the point. The OP wants to learn about aquaculture so that he can successfully enjoy the hobby. Flushing these fish may address the immediate problem, but it really adds nothing useful to the discussion.

CyanoticWasp's avatar

@pdworkin I completely agree that I don’t have any useful advice for keeping these fish alive (despite the fact that in the past my wife kept a single goldfish alive in a simple round bowl for a couple of years). But I think “limiting needless suffering” is also a valid response to anyone considering how (or whether) to keep a pet alive.

I suppose I could have been more tactful, though.

mcclatchey's avatar

@cw – as you agree that you don’t have any useful advice, I suggest you don’t post anymore replies, and I would also point out that you don’t know if this apparent ‘needless suffering’ is life threatening, or can perhaps be resolved by a simple visit to a pet shop in the morning. In response to your rediculous paragraph giving me the facts of death, as a well educated person, I already know all this, however this does not make it any less upsetting, whether it be a fish, dog, person etc!

mcclatchey's avatar

@uberbatman – thanks for your help, I agree that impulse buying is not the best idea, I will try to research first, not always trust the pet shop man

Dog's avatar

Do not give up on them. Can you use an airator ( I am sure that is not the right term ) and put them in a seperate bowl with the conditioned water to see if they improve in cooler water? @uberbatman What do you think?

I had a 200 gallon koi tank in my living room and know that they have personalities and are great pets. We had a common goldfish in with the koi and is was just as awesome and personable. They also can live for many years.
I hate how people think fish as pets are disposable.

mcclatchey's avatar

I’m considering buying an air pump tomorrow, but have been trying to ‘airate’ the water myself this evening, by taking water out and pouring it back in (saw this advise on another website) I don’t really want to take them out of the tank they’re in, as I know this can cause stress. I’ve turned lights off and opened the lid of the tank in the hope that this can calm them. I’m definately not giving up on them, just doing my best until I can get to the pet shop first thing in the morning.

dpworkin's avatar

You will find that a little diaphragm pump, some tubing and an airstone are very inexpensive.

wonderingwhy's avatar

Call the vet. Seriously, you’ve gotten what seems like pretty good advice here, but if they’re not getting better it can’t hurt to get an “on site” second opinion. Oh, and this is just my experience, but for the most part pet shop people are sales people, they may love animals but they’re still not a trained vet. Regardless, good luck with your fish :)

ultimatestar's avatar

just put them out of their misery then.

njnyjobs's avatar

Cool down the water gradually, this will slow down their metabolism, heart rate, etc. In fact, there were times that I stuck a goldfish in the fridge to settle ‘em down until I can stabilize the tank.

I have been a fish enthusiast for many years and have raised, bred and re-raised tropical as well as cold water fresh water fishes. I have goldfishes in a pond now with 12 inches of ice covering it. When spring comes around, I will have several hundred baby goldfishes again.

But going back to your dilema, it may be futile to save your fishes at this point. Learn from the experience so that next time this can be avoided.

I have a 75 gallon tank right now with 4 Black moors, 6 comets, 2 kois and 2 algae eaters. These fishes have been in the tank for atleast 5 years now. I dont test the water chemistry but try to keep the water clear by cleaning the filters every so often, using lots of aerators to oxygenate the water and release any harmful gases to the surface. I also us activated charcoal filter media.

El_Cadejo's avatar

i loathe the word fishes. I know its the proper word but EGHHHHH

@mcclatchey yea, adding an air pump would be good. If you have any fish related questions/problems in the future, feel free to PM me.

Lovethesun's avatar

It is possible that you gave them too much food. Don’t throw them away if they’re not moving and are floating upside down. After a couple of hours it’s ok. It can be a sign that their stomach is full. So I heard. Hope they’ll survive!

cpwiser10's avatar

My fish Have a similar problem, not eating,staying at the bottom, to much greyish slime and dull fins, But it may be a simple transition from young adult to adult. as my mom would say. hope they’re ok.

Fishythoughts's avatar

Is your fish tank near the drone of a fridge or other appliance ie tv, radio, aircon, speakers, really any other intermediate vibration, as I found these can cause spasms in my past experience, when all other conditions seem safe, sorry just a thought.

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