Social Question

jackm's avatar

Why do many people praise small business but condemn big business?

Asked by jackm (6212points) February 3rd, 2010

And if you are one of these people, where is the cut off? After 30 employees does the owner become evil? After 100? If you praise small business, do you realize the goal of the business is to grow bigger?

Don’t big businesses provide more jobs?

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36 Answers

Violet's avatar

Stan: So it seems like we have enough people now. When do we start taking down the corporations?
Hippie (takes a drag on his joint): Yeah man, the corporations. Right now they’re raping the world for money!
Kyle: Yeah, so, where are they? Let’s go get ‘em.
Hippie: Right now we’re proving we don’t need corporations. We don’t need money. This can become a commune where everyone just helps each other.
Hippie: Yeah, we’ll have one guy who like, who like, makes bread. A-and one guy who like, l-looks out for other people’s safety.
Stan: You mean like a baker and a cop?
Hippie: No no, can’t you imagine a place where people live together and like, provide services for each other in exchange for their services?
Kyle: Yeah, it’s called a town.

jrpowell's avatar

I think part of it that big businesses are established and the people that run them didn’t start them. A mom and pop shop actually did more than getting a MBA.

mass_pike4's avatar

small businesses are the backbone of American society

qashqai's avatar

Hypocrisy, you wrote it in the keywords.
Small businesses wouldn’t exist without big businessess.

jackm's avatar

@mass_pike4
elaborate please.

jonsblond's avatar

I don’t condemn anyone that provides a job.

Tenpinmaster's avatar

People have this idea of small business being close to the “people” and have a more personal feeling when you shop and/or use their services. Small business have the opportunity to really focus on customer service and building rapour with their consumers. People are also willing to sometimes pay more to get that service then getting the same product at a larger business with a less personal feel. When a business goes big time, it tends to loose perspective on the customer and more about their bottom line. Places like walmart are constantly under attack because of their predator-like business models to pop up in every town all over the country and snuff out their competitors. Although walmart and those like it arn’t bad, what it is doing to towns and small businesses is not healthy.

jackm's avatar

@Tenpinmaster
Walmart has GREAT customer service. And its cheaper. And it provides a lot of jobs.

Violet's avatar

I hope the Walmarts by you all are better than mine. The store is fine.. but the people…

jonsblond's avatar

@Violet Yeah. The people. Teachers, moms, nurses, lawyers, doctors, secretaries, policemen, blue collar fucks. People trying to save a buck. So terrible.~

Violet's avatar

@jonsblond is that really how you interpreted my comment? Wow. And how do you know what the people are like at the specific store by me?

Factotum's avatar

I used to live in a small town and I watched Wal-mart move in next to Kmart and eat its lunch.

Good times.

We also had a chain bookstore – Hastings – come in and destroy the local bookstore. It was a godsend. Books on everything rather than month-old bestsellers that the ‘mom ‘n’ pop’ store had.

Anyone who has actually had to depend on such small town stores to order what you need when you’re used to just walking in and getting it will understand that mom ‘n’ pop don’t have any idea what they’re doing. They just have the lock on the town until a chain moves in.

Factotum's avatar

@jonsblond I think Violet was talking about the people who work there?

Violet's avatar

@Factotum no, the people that shop there. It’s because of the area this Walmart is in. I’m not saying anything about all the people who shop at Walmarts, just the one by me.

jonsblond's avatar

The people that shop at the WalMart I shop at are decent people trying to support their family. I can say the same for the people that work there. They are happy to have job.

wtf? You are going to condemn people for where they shop and where they work?

Violet's avatar

not only are you incorrect about my views, but you’re off topic (from the original question).
If you want to think I “condemn people for where they shop and where they work”.. you go right ahead.
I still don’t know how you know what the people are like at the Walmart by me.

augustlan's avatar

[mod says] Let’s get back to the actual question, folks.

Response moderated
Response moderated
augustlan's avatar

[mod says] All off-topic remarks after a [mod says] starting with that one up there ^^ will be removed.

funkdaddy's avatar

It comes from the collective frustration of being treated like you don’t matter by large businesses. Not by all, but by the ones you need the most. They simply don’t have to provide good service.

Rarely will you wait on hold 30 minutes to talk to your local florist, rarely will the local bicycle shop lock you into a long term contract, no one knocks down a field of trees to build a strip mall anchored by your local sandwich shop. They aren’t apples to apples comparisons, but I just want to illustrate that the experience with small businesses have less pitfalls. All they need to do is provide the service, and the service is usually simpler than those we associate with larger companies.

That said, small businesses that don’t take care of their customers receive just as much disdain as large businesses that don’t. That’s why so many fail. But you just don’t return, you aren’t forced to continue working with them. Louie’s Taco Stand gives you some nasty tacos, you just don’t go back, but if your cable company screws you over and they’re the only show in town, it’s either deal with it or grab some rabbit ears.

There is no magical cutoff in numbers, it’s more about the attitude towards customers. Bad large businesses at some point go from being about providing an excellent service to maximizing income and providing the same service to everyone. It’s hard to be “excellent” to anyone when you’re trying to please everyone, or worse yet just not get sued.

There are some large businesses I love dealing with, Chipotle fills my belly, I love shopping on Amazon, and there are some really great grocery chains that get it right.

But there’s just no reason a billing question to a cell phone provider should take 45 minutes on the phone or banks should get away with half of what they do. Companies like those give ALL businesses a bad name. More often then not it’s the one’s that make us feel powerless that really get us fired up.

OpryLeigh's avatar

I think a lot of people jump on the anti big corporation bandwagons. At the moment it is almost fashionable to dislike the larger, world widley known companies. Personally, if I get good service from a company I don’t care whether they are big or small and like others have said, larger companies can offer more jobs.

Zuma's avatar

Wal-Mart is a militantly anti-union retailer that pays so little that most of its employees actually qualify for food stamps and Medicaid, which they are encouraged to apply for.

Wal-Mart has contracted with the Chinese government to mass market Chinese-made goods directly to the American consumer at the lowest possible cost. This throws small American mom and pop businesses into direct competition with third-world sweatshop labor, where there are no worker rights, no unions, no worker safety or environmental protections, and no bar against using child or prison labor.

Whenever a new Wal-Mart comes in to town, it floods the market with goods that are below even its own cost. This predatory practice uses market forces to drive out all the local competition, whereupon, they jack up their prices to charge whatever they can get away with, and make up their initial loss many times over.

This has been going on now for about 20 years, and it has hollowed out America’s industrial base. America doesn’t make much of anything anymore, and doesn’t sell much to the rest of the world. (We still make top of the line military goods, telecommunications satellites, and we run a good international protection racket, but that’s about it.) Our educational system is slipping; we are resting on our past glory; we are sliding deeper and deeper into self-delusion, fantasy, and debt, most of which is held by the Chinese. We now owe them between $800 billion and $1.3 trillion, and we are entirely dependent on them to buy our bonds to float our national budgets.

Big business and finance capital (i.e., Wall Street) is largely responsible for this state of affairs in its agitation to get NAFTA, GATT and Most Favored Nation status for China passed. It was touted at the time as a great boon to small businesses, but it has turned out quite the opposite. Every time big business wants to block something like an increase in the minimum wage, they say it will hurt small business. In fact, it helps small businesses because the minimum wage puts money in workers pockets and enables them to buy the sorts of consumer goods and services that small businesses are best geared to provide. That’s why increases in the minimum wage invariably stimulate an across the board boom, as lower wage earners buy things they really need.

JLeslie's avatar

@jackm the “cut-off” is very important. People in the media talk about helping small business. but from what I have learned the definition of small business can be pretty big. Check out this thread if you are interested http://www.fluther.com/disc/70598/how-is-small-business-really-defined/ marinelife gave a longish post not too far down with the “rules” for what qualifies s a small business technically.

I really like what funkdaddy wrote: It comes from the collective frustration of being treated like you don’t matter by large businesses. Not by all, but by the ones you need the most. They simply don’t have to provide good service. And I would add that if they fail to treat employees and customers with the golden rule, they gotta go, or be forceably changed by regulation.

Tenpinmaster's avatar

@Zuma OMG i couldn’t of said it better myself. Thank you!

wilma's avatar

Bigger businesses can and do usually provide better pay and better benefits for their employees, because they can afford to do that and the smaller businesses can’t. The working conditions may not be better.
There are good and bad in both large and small businesses.

JLeslie's avatar

I just think any business needs to function with integrity large or small. I think we can find examples of low pay, unfair work practices, gouging customers, bad service in both large and small. The thing is big does have greater chance of senior exective and owners losing touch with what happens at the lower levels, and actual contact with the customer. Ther eis a new show that is going to be on TV, Undercover Boss, they had a couple of the people featured on the show on Oprah on Monday. It was fantastic. CXO level going undercover to work with his employees out in the field. One of them worked for a garbage collection company and went on the truck one day. He learned that the female driver tarining him that day pees in a can, because she doesn’t get a chance to stop and go to a restroom. He had no idea. And, another woman panicked when she realized she might be a minute late clocking back in after a break because her boss was so rigid; this was not a policy of the company.

mattbrowne's avatar

Because most small companies treat employees like family. Having to fire people breaks the hearts of the responsible managers.

Some large companies treat employees like assets or human capital. Firing a lot people gladdens the hearts of shareholders as they observe how the stock price goes up.

josie's avatar

I think I can guess why, but it does not justify the apparent contradiction. The perception is that “Big Business” controls more wealth and wields more influence than many people are comfortable with. This suspicion was reinforced lately when government economic policy makers identified some businesses as “too big to fail”. But “Big Business” is merely a political bogey man, just like “The Rich” is a political bogey man, even though most people would like to earn more money, and as much as possible if they could. Let’s face it, none of us is ever greedy or too wealthy, but the other guy certainly is. It is this strange tendency to self righteousness that permits politicians to point fingers at the very people who define successful survival in the civilized world. BTW, the number of employees really is not the issue. This number changes up or down depending on the size of the voting constituency that is affected by policy. The smaller your voting bloc becomes, the more likely you are to be cut out of the pack and become a deep pocket for government social or economic policy. Finally, if your big business is giving poor service don’t buy their products. You may eventually get stopped at utilities and schools etc. or any of the government permitted monopolies, but nobody is forced to shop anywhere. And if you do not like your boss or your working conditions, you can always quit. No American is forced to work in any particular place or under any particular working conditions. Having to make tough life choices is not force.

Snarp's avatar

One word: Competition.

Small businesses compete with each other in a vibrant economy that provides multiple alternatives to people. Massive nationwide corporate chains stifle competition and distort the normal supply and demand curves. This is how Walmart (since they seem to have become the poster child for big business) has resulted in the offshoring of thousands of good paying manufacturing jobs. Walmart is such an enormous buyer that they exert an overwhelming pressure on the wholesale price of products they carry. Companies that can’t meet Walmart’s price demands may well go out of business. New products may not be brought to market if they can’t meet Walmart’s price demands. But these are not the prices set by normal supply and demand. End use purchasers would be willing and able to pay a higher price, but Walmart makes a demand on price from the manufacturer and simply won’t carry the product if they don’t meet it, so manufacturers have no choice but to shut down American factories and start producing in China. This may in some ways be good for poor people in China, and it is good in the short term for poor people in America, but in the long term the more dominant that Walmart becomes the higher the prices are that it charges to consumers (do some comparison shopping next time, you may find that Walmart is not the cheapest on many items) and the bigger the difference becomes between the price Walmart demands from suppliers and the price it charges its customers.

OK, two words, the second is innovation. Small companies are often the ones willing to take risks on new ideas (not always products, but also new business methods, etc.). A huge corporation will always do things the same way, but a small business may try something new and different that radically alters the economy. Even if a big corporation ends up buying the idea and marketing it more effectively, they might not have taken the risk on their own. If companies become too big and drive smaller competitors out of business, then innovation suffers. And innovation is the true key to getting a capitalist economy out of a downturn.

OK, I’ll stop counting new words now. Mainly because I don’t have a good single word for this next one. Money from local businesses stays local. If you spend a dollar at the local pharmacy, then say (and the amounts here don’t matter, this is just to get the idea) 60 cents goes to the manufacturer, 10 cents goes to a local employee, and 30 cents goes to the owner of the store. The money to the manufacturer is gone, nothing to be done about that. The money to the employee is spent at the diner across the street, at the local pharmacy, at the toy store across town, on rent, etc. It gets recycled lots of times within the local economy, providing more jobs for more people locally. The thirty cents that the local owner gets also gets recycled through the local economy. Now take the case of a CVS. The same product goes for 95 cents at the CVS. Of this 50 cents goes to the manufacturer, 5 cents to the local employee, and 40 cents to CVS corporate. Now there’s only 5 cents recycling locally instead of 40 with the local pharmacy, all so one customer can save 5 cents. Let’s say his five cents savings is also recycled locally, we still have a net loss to the local economy of 30 cents.

Then there’s the issue of having a single business dominate an individual town. Look at the oil or mining boom towns that fail when the oil or mineral runs out. Something similar is happening to Detroit. Many small towns in America face similar problems when some global corporation shutters its operation on Main Street and replaces it (and others on other Main Streets) with one huge one in China, or in Alabama for that matter. It’s good for the folks where the new plant opens, but many small towns dry up completely or suffer terrible unemployment because they have all their eggs in one basket. Many small, local businesses is better for the economy than one huge global corporation building a 10,000 job operation in town. If that’s all you can get and you need jobs, you certainly want it, but you also need to have an economic policy that encourages local small businesses as well. If that huge employer is an engine plant, then it’s likely to encourage more local business in terms of suppliers, restaurants to serve workers, etc. If it is a big box retailer instead, it will stifle local small business as its only suppliers are overseas and it has its own fast food restaurant inside and doesn’t pay its employees enough to eat anywhere else. They can only afford to buy its discount groceries.

This could go on forever. There are lots of problems that occur when corporations grow too big. Some (but not all) of it is so obvious that economists have a nasty word for it: oligopoly (or sometimes monopoly). But even defining oligopoly is very difficult, and frankly, government policy no longer seems to care too much about oligopoly and monopoly. What’s the cut off? It depends, but we can start looking at nationwide and global firms, but even some of those should and need to be that big, but many don’t and shouldn’t. When we start to see competition stifled (as we clearly do in the case of Walmart) that’s definitely past the cut off.

Snarp's avatar

Also, it is not the goal of all businesses to grow. It’s the goal of corporations to grow so that shareholders accumulate capital. It is the goal of a business to provide a good or service that is desired, at a price that enables the business to make enough profit for it’s owners to lead a relatively comfortable life. A business need not grow, and certainly doesn’t need to grow any more than is necessary to support the growth of its local customer base. The growth imperative is a function of public incorporation, not of business. In this way the stock market creates an artificial purpose for businesses that can often be at odds with their real purpose of providing a quality good or service for reasonable profit.

Qingu's avatar

For me, the most important thing is the concentration of power.

Anti-competition is a corollary of this principle. If a business is very big it tends to absorb or push away competitors. But big businesses also exert a lot of political and social power as well. Look at how Google has shaped the infrastructure of the internet. They control how a huge amount of people interact with and find information.

Now, I like Google, and I think they are fair about how they do this. But in many respects they are so powerful that they function essentially as a benevolent dictatorship in the realm they’ve carved out for themselves. And any kind of dictatorship is problematic.

Ever since the Code of Hammurabi, perhaps the fundamental principle of Law is “the strong shall not oppress the weak.” Big corporations are strong, and with great power comes great responsibility.

mammal's avatar

When the Countries that harbour monster corporations start actually invading, infiltrating other non-democratic countries in order to expand their market and labour force, or protect their assets. That’s a sure sign of a business that is too big that has such a terrifying monopoly, it defines foreign policy, social agendas, the mass media, curtails labour laws, trade unions and so forth. see United States of America for illustrations.

Snarp's avatar

@mammal Of course, that’s been going on at least since the start of the 20th century.

Factotum's avatar

@Snarp I think you could make a case for the East India Company’s opium trade as well.

Snarp's avatar

@Factotum Point taken.

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