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dpworkin's avatar

Is anyone else feeling that Fluther is losing ground in the signal to noise ratio?

Asked by dpworkin (26965 points ) April 5th, 2010

I just saw a post the feeling of frustration behind which seems to encapsulate what I have been feeling myself over the last few days. Could it be Spring Fever, or is there something going wrong on Fluther?

I seem to encounter a lot more “aggressive stupidity” here lately, and I’m thinking of taking a nice, long Fluther vacation (don’t get too excited, dpworkin haters: I haven’t decided for sure.)

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

140 Answers

Zen_Again's avatar

Yep.

I’m on the beach – come join me the water’s fine – bring sunscreen.

DominicX's avatar

These complains have always been around and have always been around. People were saying the same thing when I first joined. The past couple days I’ve been on here a lot and have had some really interesting discussions. It just depends.

I think it’s also because the stupid questions seem to go right over my head. I suppose that’s a good thing. But that doesn’t mean other people don’t notice them more.

Taking a break never hurt anyone, though. Go for it. :)

CyanoticWasp's avatar

I’m not a hater, although you know that I’m often a strong disagreer. (Can you imagine that Firefox flagged that word as a misspelling? I even disagree with them now, too.)

Take the vacation if you want to, but we’ll expect you back and as ornery and opinionated as ever within a few weeks. Send postcards.

tinyfaery's avatar

You? Complaining?

Just_Justine's avatar

I want you to stay, because you give such GA’s but then I am selfish. I cant see that question you posted.

andrew's avatar

It’s been something we’ve been talking about for the last two weeks behind the scenes. We’re currently coming up with some solutions.

dpworkin's avatar

Oh great, @andrew! That gives me a good feeling (among other reasons that it seems not to be just me who noticed a change.)

CyanoticWasp's avatar

@andrew just for gosh sakes don’t screw with the user names and avatars at the same time again. Either one would have been somewhat funny for an old guy like me who can barely follow a face-to-face conversation that is directed right at him. Following the conversations on 1-Apr (or trying to) was torture.

dpworkin's avatar

@CyanoticWasp You wouldn’t support that if it ended the nonsense? I would.

andrew's avatar

@CyanoticWasp Oh crap, I was just going to change every response to “Andrew is really smart and cool.”

Just_Justine's avatar

@andrew well you are, I got hit on when I had your avatar lolz

CyanoticWasp's avatar

@dpworkin I thought that increased the nonsense…

Captain_Fantasy's avatar

Take a break if it bothers you that much. That’s allowed.

wundayatta's avatar

What does “aggressive stupidity” mean. I got here too late to see your example, which had been sent off for editing.

dpworkin's avatar

@wundayatta In the example you pointed out, it is, to my way of thinking, people who persist in their beliefs after they have been elaborately and accurately disproved. It is from a quote by Johan Wolfgang Von Goethe, who said, “There is nothing worse than aggressive stupidity.”

Es gibt nichts Schlimmeres, als aggressive Dummheit.

wundayatta's avatar

Obviously, I’m not in favor of aggressive stupidity, but if we add some kind of litmus test to questions or to people—“how seriously do you take scientific evidence and conclusions”—it seems to me that we’d be doing some serious censorship that would be harmful to this place. I think a spare number of village idiots are required in any community. They are only harmful if we take them seriously. They sometimes actually happen upon an interesting point.

We don’t behead our idiots. We just figure out who they are, and treat their remarks accordingly. We really can’t help it if the King takes the Jester’s advice every once in a while (when the Jester is an idiot), or if the King fails to take the Jester’s advice every once in a while (when the Jester is a savant). It comes with the territory, as they say. It’s up to you to keep it in context and to not let them work you up so much.

My attitude is that I will make my point once and defend it once. I tend to let things go after that. People generally remember your first point better than anything that comes after that. So you really don’t have to defend it, especially from idiots. When do need to defend something, if you merely point out the misleading rhetorical technique they are using, most others understand that and don’t put any credibility to any further comments from that person.

So move on. This is not a battle worth fighting if you can control yourself. Well, you can do what you want, of course. You may disagree, but that’s how I deal with it.

dpworkin's avatar

Oh, I would never suggest censorship. I would suggest incentivizing questions and answers which are better thought out. This may include changing, for example, the “lurve” algorithm. If @andrew says they are working on it, that’s good enough for me. My ranting and raving is just my own bad behavior. I don’t advocate it.

wundayatta's avatar

So there would be a premium or something for a question or answer that got a lot of lurve? For every ten five lurve a question or answer gets, an extra one is added?

If you use the lurve system, then you are merely going by popular opinion. I don’t know if that makes sense.

Jude's avatar

I can’t say that I’ve noticed anything…

Spring has sprung. It’s a gorgeous 75 out right now. I’m involved in a few more activities for the Spring/Summer, so, I won’t be around much.

Sometimes, it’s good to take a little break.

dpworkin's avatar

@wundayatta Oh, I agree with you. Just providing a way to get extra lurve wouldn’t change a thing, but maybe there could be some criteria for special lurve. What do I know?

Judi's avatar

I am sad because I am less that 400 lurve away from 20K and I can’t seem to find discussions that I want to be involved in. I am looking forward to my party! I’m hoping it’s just a lull. We can’t have run out of good questions!

augustlan's avatar

As I said elsewhere, it does seem to come and go in waves. Sometimes gentle, rolling waves and sometimes a tsunami.

Like Andrew said, we have been discussing it a lot, and hope to have some fixes soon. In the meantime, a little break never hurt anybody. I’d miss you, though!

@Judi So close! It’ll happen soon. :)

Judi's avatar

I guess that was a little shameless fishing :-)

nebule's avatar

I don’t know…I just thought it was me…but I’m not in a good place right now… perhaps tis something in the air… don’t go though for too long dp… x

gailcalled's avatar

I just skipped the last 35 questions. “The windows being the eyes of the sole” finished me for the day. Fish or feet? Do I still care?

dpworkin's avatar

Bedroom slipper, dolling.

gailcalled's avatar

Meunière them in comfort, mon âme.

escapedone7's avatar

I signed up last July but didn’t come back until a month ago. I hope I haven’t made things worse. I posted a question about weather certain answers were acceptable on fluther and the unique community that has formed here, trying to get a feel. Could you propose a few guidelines for newbie me so I fit in better? I know I’m not as mature as many of you nor am I as educated. I’ve misbehaved a little but I did settle down (really I am trying.) What general guidelines would perhaps let me know how not to disrupt the culture that has evolved here? Am I going too far off topic? Should I post this elsewhere?

dpworkin's avatar

@escapedone7 You’ve never done anything worth complaining about. Relax.

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AstroChuck's avatar

Andrew is really smart and cool.

YARNLADY's avatar

People – have you looked at a calendar lately? It’s spring break and that always means an influx of ‘aggressive stupidity’.

I’ve also noticed on every Q & A site I’ve ever been on that after a year or so, the questions and answers all start to look the same to me.

dpworkin's avatar

@YARNLADY There is something else strange going on here. How come all of a sudden I agree with nearly everything you say, and the rest I find quite interesting? Don’t you think that’s spooky?

toomuchcoffee911's avatar

Can someone tell me what the question was? It got removed.

Fred931's avatar

I started visiting Fluther more often since the beginning of March, so that is the most likely reason why people like @dpworkin are a bit on the edgy side.

YARNLADY's avatar

@dpworkin I did notice that, and yes, something very strange is happening. I’m almost afraid to change my avatar back.

janbb's avatar

@Yarnlady Ah – We love the new you. DOn’t change back.

Jeruba's avatar

I’ve noticed a wave of juvenilia lately that made me wonder if fluther had been touted on TeenAngst.com or something.

Fred931's avatar

@Jeruba TeenAngst is apparently parked. Something is not right on the intarwebs…

KatawaGrey's avatar

Not gonna lie, I’ve noticed it too. I’ve been posting a lot less simply because I feel like more questions as of late are ticking time bombs as opposed to in the past when they would have yielded interesting discussions.

filmfann's avatar

I have to say that it may be that some people are SO convinced that their argument is flawless, that they refuse to believe anyone has any reason to think otherwise.
I have drawn a lot of heated criticism because I don’t embrace the theories of Global Warming. Some are so certain they are right, and I am wrong, that all discussion is abandoned, and I am bombarded with belittlement.

dpworkin's avatar

Yeah, but you are wrong. That’s not what we’re talking about. We’re talking about them ignoring you when you are right.

filmfann's avatar

My point displayed! Thanks!
I guess “aggressive stupidity” (which is a pretty aggressive term) works both sides.

dpworkin's avatar

Jeeze, that was supposed to be a joke.

filmfann's avatar

Really? Jokes are supposed to be funny… ~ (hey, look! it’s the little sarcasm indicator!)

dpworkin's avatar

Yeah, sorry, I don’t do the tilde. It drives @augustlan nuts, but I just can’t bring myself to use it.

Jeruba's avatar

@Fred931, it’s not a real site. I made it up to make a point. (Come to think of it, it’s sort of surprising that there is no such site.)

gemiwing's avatar

Yes, actually I do. I think it’s partly Spring break and partly that Fluther is growing. Now, not all new people are ‘bad’- far from it. There are many, many more that I’ve come to look forward to interacting with.

I’ve been surprised at how many misspelled, poorly written and obvious questions have been asked lately. Not to say the mods aren’t doing their job. I shudder at the mere thought of how much crap they pull that I don’t see.

If you need to take a break, then I say go for it. Send a postcard back.

wundayatta's avatar

Wow! I wish people would give examples. I have no idea what anyone is talking about. Then again, I’m not sure I want to belong to this club.

Really, I don’t think the quality of the questions matter. I believe that in cases of ambiguity, it is us, as answerers, to interpret the question (find it’s underlying essences) and then answer the question that we believe is being asked. I think we can give quality answers if we do this.

And, as always, if we find the question really stupid, I think it is highly amusing to answer in an absurd way—as soon as three or four serious answers are there. I find that people don’t usually get my humor unless I tell them it’s a joke, but you can’t win ‘em all.

Hmmm. Maybe I’m just not as funny as I thought people told me I was. Seriously. Until three years ago I didn’t think I was funny, but then a number of people told me they thought I was funny, and so I came to believe it.

phillis's avatar

I don’t care anything about this website, but I do care about people, which is what this website essentially IS. Somehere along the line, that has been forgotten. It’s perfectly okay to feel resentment and anger over having the ground shaken where you stand, but it is NOT okay allow your emotions make your decisions for you. Yet, this is precisely what is happening. Any idiot knows that marginalizing a large portion of a community is a detriment to the society as a whole, and yet, here we are.

You guys are backed by such strong emotions that you are determined to carve up the site any way you can. So be it. It’s worth pointing out that one person sincerely asked for guidance on this thread, and nobody has the decency to chat with her, or even offer a simple ”“thank you” for having such an awesome attitude? Were it that ALL your newbies were like her! You’d have few problems, indeed.

Even one of your own asked for clarification and making points worth mulling over, and you won’t even give him enough respect to answer him. 4 people have GA’d him (one was me), so whether they are saying anything behind the scenes or not, people are disagreeing with you. And there are more of your old guard who feel the same way. Want proof? Look up this question…....

On a question, one frustrated jelly asked whether we could have a blacklist function. Without exception, 20 people said it was a bad idea. Not only that, they stated why. Not one of those arguments could be dismantled. That should tell you something. Nevertheless, Andrew comes in and says that indeed, there WILL be a blacklist, with a kiss my ass attitude, to boot. You can’t work with somebody like that, nor a person who uses whatever excuse is handy to hide behind to accomplish goals that they damn well know isn’t right. And you guys think others are hard to deal with?

Everybody takes their turn on the idiot merry-go-round, despite their best efforts. I’ve seen atrocious behavior from jellies (with a whole lot of encouragement to back them), so believe me when I say that it has been a wild, fun ride on a two-way street. If you want to carve up the site, be my guest. I can easily agree to that – as long as I’m only in it for myself. You guys are getting nose bleeds from the cheap seats up there. Why don’t you come on down and rejoin humanity? There’s a lot of good that goes on down here on the playing field. It defies common sense that we’re ALL idiots.

dpworkin's avatar

Ahahahahaha! @janbb! Did you see which of our quips some moderator removed? Someone must be feeling constipated today!

CyanoticWasp's avatar

@dpworkin if you want a perfectly appropriate example of your complaint about signal-to-noise lunacy, check out today’s Q&A on the Bermuda Triangle. (Be prepared to discuss whatever you know about bi-directional and one-way wormholes.)

dpworkin's avatar

Oh, @CW, must I?

CyanoticWasp's avatar

@dpworkin better that you don’t, I suppose. It took me too long to realize that there were answers posited based on “Stargate” technology. Gahhh.

Some of the Q&A should have a warning: “Your IQ must be this low to participate.”

janbb's avatar

@pd Someone must have been incentivized to do so.

Pandora's avatar

@I can see if someone writes a silly question and selects questions, but I think under discussion anything can go. I think some flutherites just get a silly nagging question caught in there thoughts and curiosity makes them want to explore it more to see if its something possible.
They may feel silly asking friends in person, so why not ask on fluther. Who is it hurting if some people want to give it an answer? Or if they make a lot of points off of it. I really don’t care one way or another.
I’ve seen great questioned get passed over in points because the answer was clear cut.
Its the contoversial questions that get the most points because they make you think out of the box. If a person doesn’t like the question, than they simply need not answer it and move on to a question they rather answer. No reason to change everything up.
Anything else simply leads to censorship and who gets to decide whos thoughts are valid and who’s aren’t.

andrew's avatar

While I’m sure this comment will also be misinterpreted, let me try my best to set the record straight.

Quality has nothing to do with old versus new members. At all—in fact, many of our older members are just as guilty about providing non-helpful responses as well.

There’s a lot of nostalgia involved as well.

We’re looking at ways to help refocus Fluther—to nudge it back to its roots—as a useful, helpful, warm site, while also providing ways to connect and have fun with each other.

janbb's avatar

Thanks, Andrew. Of course, we’ll all complain mightily about any changes you make!

andrew's avatar

@janbb Ha! As if I listen to anything anyone says. Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have a bunch of responses to remove that I don’t agree with personally, and I still have to ban a random user today. Oh, and strangle a kitten.

janbb's avatar

@Andrew you didn’t have pinching babies on your list?

janbb's avatar

P.s. I’m in SFO – wanna buy me a drink?

phillis's avatar

I like that, @andrew. Now, stop being a smartass. I’m not that hard to talk to. I’m not even pissed off.

CyanoticWasp's avatar

lol @andrew (hypothetically)

Exhausted's avatar

I’m a newbee on this site and when I was first exposed, I was excited about the possibilities. I did not see, when I joined, there was a “good ole boys” club that I must qualify for to be worthy enough to participate in. I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, my typing may not be perfect, my opinions may not always be with the majority and my questions may not be interesting enough for all the people, on here, that have already been there done that, but I do my best. Maybe questions should be catagorized by the experience of the person asking. Like giving the newbees the same opportunity to experience Fluther as all of you pioneer members did, with an open canvas not already painted on by the ones that went before us. That way if we ask a question, although having been approached from a different angle before, the people that have already dealt with that will not be forced to weed through all the clutter we newbees put in their way.

Trillian's avatar

@andrew, step on a baby chick or two while you’re at it!~

AstroChuck's avatar

Now you all know why my cats would leave the room whenever Veronica Mars came on the television.

fireside's avatar

The complaint about signal to noise ratio sounds familiar. Maybe this has something to do with the return of warmer weather.

Pandora's avatar

@andrew Gotcha!
@Exhausted Welcome. Fasten your seat belt and enjoy the ride.
It can get bumpy in here but if you blast the radio and buckle in you’ll be just fine and get to your destination. :D
I try to smile and move on to the good stuff when I’m annoyed.

davidbetterman's avatar

I seem to encounter a lot more “aggressive stupidity” here lately,”
You generate much of it with your nastiness, @dpworkin

dpworkin's avatar

And you never fail to oblige.

davidbetterman's avatar

I am always happy to oblige you. You are my hero.

Steve_A's avatar

I think a break is a good idea, I deleted my account for a break (under the impression I could re-active it myself haha next time I will just log out) Anyways I found it useful

After that little break the biggest thing I do now is not bother with it, I avoid many questions and overloaded threads/discussions or the answer is obvious and I know a fluther on here will answer it well enough if not better and I don’t want to be adding to the flame or like.

I often find with certain questions I might ask like scientific theories or random ideals many people are going to just get into arguments or leave rude remarks etc…, even though I ask with a genuine curiosity. I simply read the answers now and not even reply and gather some information go back to thinking,reading,studying or whatever I was doing…..

At the end of the day, It ain’t worth wasting my hate I think I’ll keep it for myself ;)

KatawaGrey's avatar

@phillis @Exhausted: Something you seem to be forgetting is that we were all newbies at some point. It’s not as if @tinyfaery, @augustlan and @jjmah just to name a few on this thread sprang forth as fully fledged members with many thousand lurve and many connections and a lot of experience. They started out new and so did I. We all lasted just fine. If you have a serious problem with the way fluther run, hey, that’s cool, ain’t no skin off my nose. However, keep in mind that while other q&a sites are crashing down around their users’ ears, fluther survives. Maybe it’s just that there are an awful lot of idiots who love this place too damn much, or maybe it’s because it’s actually run quite well.

@andrew: I do hope my lipstick comes off your ass. ;)

davidbetterman's avatar

@KatawaGrey And hope you can get the brown off your nose! :P

CyanoticWasp's avatar

@KatawaGrey are you sure? When the Fluther Bible comes out, you might have to eat those words.

YARNLADY's avatar

@KatawaGrey Great Answer!

Jude's avatar

@YARNLADY I agree.

@KatawaGrey I couldn’t have said it better myself.

phillis's avatar

@KatawaGrey Indeed, we were ALL new at one time. Funny how nobody cares to remember that until it’s convenient. You wouldn’t have heard about this at all, if there wasn’t a problem, so, let’s just call it what it is and not defend undefendable actions. This is the first time I’ve ever heard from you. It’s nice to meet you. I’m Phillis.

KatawaGrey's avatar

@phillis: Hello, I’m KatawaGrey. I’m always glad to meet new users. I would just like to say that I wasn’t trying to be aggressive, and I don’t quite understand your comment. How is this time any more convenient to recall that I was once new than any other time? I brought it up because it is relevant to the discussion. Most other times, it is not relevant, therefore I do not bring it up. Would you please clarify your statement?

phillis's avatar

Its a pleasure, believe it or not :)
I’m not sure what is confusing you. Does my statement carry some abiguity I am unaware of? Let me approach it another way. How would you feel if people attacked you on a thread, and their comments still stood, while all your responses to them were erased?

KatawaGrey's avatar

Well, now I’m even more confused than I was before. What does my saying that we were all newbies once have to do with certain comments being modded and certain other comments standing?

davidbetterman's avatar

Simple. Newbies get modded twice as hard as old-timers. Just saying.

YARNLADY's avatar

@davidbetterman Do you have actual statistics to back that up? I still get most of my questions modded, just as I always have. I don’t know how to ask a proper question most of the time.

KatawaGrey's avatar

@davidbetterman: I really hope you’re not using yourself as that statistic.

dpworkin's avatar

Oh, nonsense. I get modded all the time, and I don’t bitch about it. They are doing their job.

davidbetterman's avatar

@dpworkin I am not bitching (although I have been told that I am bitchin!)
@YARNLADY I find it hard to believe that you have ever in your life been moderated.
@KatawaGrey lololololol…

YARNLADY's avatar

@davidbetterman there is one user on here that has driven me to moderation at least once.

jeanmay's avatar

Just thought I’d put my two cents in, for what it’s worth.

I’m not exactly new here, just a sporadic guest. I have been somewhat uninspired by questions as of late, and noticed there are many more young ‘uns than there used to be. Many of the younger users are posting interesting and well-written responses and questions, but I’m still surprised some days by the kind of questions that make it past the mods. (Sorry guys, I have to be honest. The fact that you’re working on it @andrew , has been duly noted). In response to those new comers who feel they’re not being heard, it’s becoming increasingly difficult to take note of quality contributions amongst all the ‘noise’.

Generally, I feel Fluther is a tough nut to crack. You do sometimes feel like you just walked into a room full of hip cool dudes all deep in conversation. And the second you enter you realise you’re wearing your panties over your trousers, but it’s too late to back out. So you end up standing there like a ninny, panties all out, trying to join in on the chat but not getting anywhere because no one can see past the panties. I digress, the point is, it can be very intimidating.

@andrew Part of the problem with being new is, it’s completely terrifying trying to ask a question that no one will make disparaging and unhelpful comments about. Subsequently one shies away from asking questions (unless having thought about it for weeks on end), which means the quality of one’s questions doesn’t improve. There is also the fear of asking a question that has already been asked. As well as the search facility, perhaps there could be some way in the asking process where when you type the keywords, other recent questions containing those keywords come up. Just a thought, I know nothing about these things

davidbetterman's avatar

@jeanmay You gotta have heart. Miles and miles of heart!

andrew's avatar

@jeanmay The disparaging and unhelpful comments are a quality issue as well. Part and parcel.

janbb's avatar

@jeanmay Stick around please. You are just the type of Jelly we need; great writing and perceptions.

Exhausted's avatar

Personally, I don’t have a problem earning my respect and dealing with my status as a newbee. My suggestion and comment was only even mentioned because so many of the people that have been on here for sometime, seem to be expressing frustration with the Fluther Pool, becoming cloudy with the newbee influx. I guess there is complaining where ever you are in any venue you choose to associate yourself with and should be viewed as such.

CyanoticWasp's avatar

And @jeanmay… what color panties are you wearing, by the way?

wundayatta's avatar

@andrew Would you mind telling us exactly which issues you are concerned about and working on, preferably with examples (they can be made up, but should be on point)?

Like I said on the other thread, I think more transparency would help. When people are throwing around vague disparagements about newbies without defining “newbie” or without saying precisely what they are talking about, then anyone who thinks they might be a newbie could think they are being talked about.

Just for example, it surprises me very much that people like @phillis and Vanessuh and @Exhausted should think they are newbies who are reducing the quality of this website. I find their answers to be well thought out and I look forward to reading them when I see their names. I just can’t imagine that they are people being caught in this net full of bad fish. If they are—well—I don’t know what to say. I guess this place is not what I thought it was, and the accusations of having two classes have much more merit than I had imagined.

It also means that your idea of ”...a useful, helpful, warm site, [that] also provid[es] ways to connect and have fun with each other” is completely incomprehensible to me.

We’ve had our disagreements in the past, but in general I think we have a similar idea of what a good question/answer/social website should and can be. It’s hard for me to believe that there is anything but a massive mistake in communication occurring here. That’s why I think greater transparency is crucial. I wouldn’t want to see a lot of valuable contributors disappearing in a huff or even feeling put down because of mistaken understandings of what others are saying. That is just plain stupid if you allow that to continue.

We’ll have more of battle lines being drawn, such as we see above where @KatawaGrey calls out @phillis and @Exhausted and enlists @tinyfaery, @augustlan and @jjmah on her side. This is completely unhelpful. It creates an us vs them atmosphere. If that’s the way it’s going to be, then I am clueless about the inner machinations of the mods, and you can count me on the side of them.

I am fucking tired of this kind of behavior. That’s why I left Askville. I lived though high school once. I didn’t want to do it again. And I certainly don’t want to do it a third time. You people have to stop this! It’s like fingernails screeching across a blackboard in my ears (anyone know what a blackboard is, anymore?)

Jude's avatar

@gailcalled is crafting quite the response, me thinks.

gailcalled's avatar

Horseradish re the old timers. I am the oldest timer here (and probably anywhere) and I get modded regularly and also know what a blackboard is. I have the one I grew up with. It is in my garage and we use it as a reminder and message board.

gailcalled's avatar

@jjmah: In mid-sentence the phone rang. I went outside with a cup of tea to talk, look at my thousands of daffodils in bloom and watch Milo have a stand-off with a small garter snake. All very entertaining.

tinyfaery's avatar

I see no evidence that @KatawaGrey “enlisted” me in anything.

Ugh! This is lame. I’m outtie.

nebule's avatar

@wundayatta ok…just…before you do….don’t leave us again because you’re pissed off… just thought you might be headed in that direction and wanted to say…stop!... this will all blow over…:-)

better still…click the stop following button and go put your feet up…with a cup of tea and a cupcake ;-)

but do come back…obviously!!

janbb's avatar

@CyanoticWasp You always have to go there, don’t you? :-)

CyanoticWasp's avatar

I’m sorry, @janbb… it’s not a long trip for me to ‘go there’. I spend so much time there as it is, and then quips like that put me right back there.

YARNLADY's avatar

@filmfann It wasn’t you

jeanmay's avatar

@janbb Thanks, there’s nowhere else (online) I’d rather be!
@CyanoticWasp Take a deep breath, count to ten, and try to “see past the panties”.

@wundayatta All the accusations and recriminations around here seem hopelessly vague. But Fluther seems to be very good at responding to feedback, and the moderating system works pretty well all in all. So if anyone has any problem (@dpworkin included) with any particular flutherite they can go through the proper channels. I would hope that @dpworkin‘s original question was aimed at generating helpful discussion on the running of the site, and not an attempt to alienate others.

janbb's avatar

@jeanmay Very diplomatic. You may end up the next mod – watch out!

wundayatta's avatar

@lynneblundell I’m not going anywhere. At least, not yet. I only do that kind of thing in multiples of ten K.

I just get frustrated with vague accusations and I can’t understand how people don’t get the harm they cause by flinging them around. At least if you name names, you can have it out. But cowards don’t name names because they don’t want to have to deal with real people. They defend it by saying they don’t want to get into it.

Well, if you don’t want to get into something, don’t say anything at all. It just makes me sick, especially since some very nice people have been bashed as a result of it. I just want them to know that not all jellies think in such unclear and unnuanced ways.

CyanoticWasp's avatar

@jeanmay “try to see past the panties”? You’re just egging me on now. You know that, don’t you?

augustlan's avatar

[mod says] Generally, we don’t allow people to “name names” in a negative way.

It’s really disheartening to see so many at odds with one another lately. This is definitely not what Fluther is about.

jeanmay's avatar

@augustlan It is a real shame, but there’s still a lot of lurve going on around here. I can’t understand why some people aren’t feeling it! I, for one, am lurving it.

wundayatta's avatar

@augustlan Do you see how that can make it worse than naming names? If you don’t name names, a lot more people might think you are talking about them than you are actually talking about.

Personally, I don’t think anyone should be making any comments of this sort at all. You can talk about problems without casting aspersions on others. You can take a positive approach.

But if people have a problem with a specific person or group of people, I think it is dishonest and destructive to hide behind this idea that we shouldn’t name names. I don’t like thinking I’m in the group of people that everyone is complaining about. But, due to my psychology, I assume I am the one who did something bad unless I am told, specifically, I am not the one being complained about.

It really sucks, and if I’m in the wrong frame of mind, it can cause me to do stupid things. I know you guys mean well, but I think you have overlooked something serious here.

If you’re going to wash dirty laundry in private, then make damn sure you don’t open the gate to the back yard. If you open the gate to the back yard, then display your dirty laundry in public. Trying to have it both ways makes everything much worse.

YARNLADY's avatar

Maybe the Fluther God’s could borrow some ideas from some other Q & A sites. One of them got so fed up with the petty bickering they told everybody off right on the site, and then simply pulled the plug. Another changed their format so drastically by making the pages 90% advertising and doing away with many of the user friendly features that they drove away most of their old do it my way members, and they are now flooded with repeat questions and answers from the My boyfriend slobbered on me, am I pregnant? crowd.

nikipedia's avatar

I am hoping this is just me being cranky. I have not read this whole thread, but truthfully I am inclined to agree. The signal:noise is out of control. Even people who post something intelligible are not actually answering the question at hand. Or when they are, their answers are not thoughtful or helpful. When I try to post questions now, I try to phrase them as carefully as possible so as to get a meaningful answer, and even then I find that the handful of good answers I get are nearly drowned out by the chorus of—@dpworkin said it best—aggressive stupidity.

I have been here for a long time. (Not as long as Gail.) And I have seen other peaks and troughs. But this one is getting bad enough for me also to not want to be here anymore. It’s just depressing.

I don’t know. Maybe things will shift back. I hope so.

gailcalled's avatar

The problem (perhaps that is not the best word) is the huge age range. When you have 13 year olds and me, for example, we obviously have very different interests, concerns, experiences and attitudes. Fluther does a good job of balancing things, I think.

And things are looking up today, I noticed.

(Skfinkel was here from the get-go -several months before I was invited on board.)

@nikipedia, Please stay. You add a perspective and a body of knowledge that I like and need.

nikipedia's avatar

@gailcalled: I’m not sure I agree. Unless “age” range is a euphemism for “stupidity” range. Honestly, I kind of like the cheesy 13yo coming of age questions—what is high school going to be like, how am I going to survive the tragedy of this social falling out, etc. We’ve all been there and I think can offer a lot of perspective and genuine help.

The people who are upsetting me right now are grown adults who know better yet insist on being antagonistically, aggressively stupid. And I don’t hunt them down and argue with them, but when they show up in my threads and derail them with offensive and/or factually incorrect statements I feel like I have to say something. I have had to ask mods to step in and monitor things to keep myself from going apeshit on a specific person who refuses to listen to reason and seems to have a clique of cronies cheering her on.

And I didn’t really mean that I plan on leaving, but maybe being around a little less. I don’t know. Ebbs and flows. Hopefully things are on an upswing.

dpworkin's avatar

I’m grateful to be getting a little support here after the mortar lobbed by @wundayatta

Yetanotheruser's avatar

It’s Sprang Bock and Growling Pangs!~

wundayatta's avatar

@dpworkin Well, I’m kind of pissed off that you think I’m aggressively stupid.

dpworkin's avatar

I never said you were, nor do I think you are. You made the assumption all by yourself, as you have admitted you are wont to do.

nikipedia's avatar

Gentlemen, please. I hate to see two of my favorite jellies arguing. You are both so insightful and clever. Neither of you is stupid.

wundayatta's avatar

Ok, then who are you talking about, if not me?

janbb's avatar

Why don’t you guys have this discussion in pms?

dpworkin's avatar

I’m sorry @wundayatta, I know that you believe I should name names, and I just as strongly believe I should not, so we must agree to disagree.

wundayatta's avatar

@dpworkin Then I think you are lying about me. I think you don’t have the courage to stand behind your accusations. I am getting really pissed off about this. It feels like the beginning of a police state with people secretly informing on each other behind their backs. I had hoped that the powers that be here would be above something like this.

dpworkin's avatar

I have noticed in the last couple of posts you have made and in things you said to me in PMs, that this is your new focus. I’m sorry to see that, and I hope it doesn’t last long. I don’t see how it profits you or anyone else, but you are entitled to you views. I however am entitled to disengage, which is what I intend to do as of this post.

nebule's avatar

d’yaknowitmakesmewannapickupthephoneandbangyourheadstogether….thisisFlutherFFS!!! :-)loveyou…both

Jude's avatar

I’m going to pull an Ellen Burstyn (from the Divine Secrets of the Ya-Ya Sisterhood), and start smashing the receiver of my phone multiple times if you all don’t stop. :)

wundayatta's avatar

STOP
TRYING
TO
JOLLY
ME
I
AM
NOT
IN
THE
MOOD!

assuming you were talking to me

Jude's avatar

I

WARNED

YOU.

;-)

Fred931's avatar

@jjmah Boom hedshotz

wundayatta's avatar

Now look! You went and woke the baby!

escapedone7's avatar

All this drama and I am the only one concerned that @andrew is going to choke a kitten ! Couldn’t he at least choke a chicken instead?

I only put that here to increase the noise ratio. What are you going to do about it?

Fred931's avatar

@escapedone7 I’ve killed a lot of kittens, then…

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