Social Question

bright_eyes00's avatar

Should welfare recipients be drug tested?

Asked by bright_eyes00 (1338 points ) April 13th, 2010

I do not know if this question has been asked before, apologies if it has. I was sent a forwarded email with a message saying “If I have to be drug tested to get a paycheck, they should be drug tested to receive welfare” or something to that affect. I’m wondering what the thoughts and/or feelings of other Flutherites would be on this matter. Care to share yours??

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162 Answers

dpworkin's avatar

There’s this little detail known as the Constitution, but lately people haven’t been letting that get in their way.

Often drug usage is correlated with low Socio-Economic Status. So does your friend believe we should begin punishing people for forces beyond their control? That sounds withholding and gratuitously punitive to me. Maybe your friend has a personality disorder.

Mamradpivo's avatar

No. And your friend shouldn’t have to pass a drug test to work in the private sector either.

jazmina88's avatar

you shouldnt have to be drug tested for work.

If people are down and out, isnt that when they get more frustrated to drink and drug?

where is our compassion. folks??

RedPowerLady's avatar

They can’t use the money to buy drugs so why? What about addicted parents who get foodstamps. They use the food to feed their kids even if they are addicts. Just some things to ponder.

CaptainHarley's avatar

Yes! If they’re going to be supported off the public teat, they should have to at least toe the line like anyone employed by the federal government. As a matter of fact, I think that anyone on the public dole should have to work at whatever job the government assigns them in order to recieve a welfare check.

WestRiverrat's avatar

@RedPowerLady You would be surprised at how easy it is to sell foodstamps. It is common for the WIC and EIB recipients here to buy someone groceries with the card and get cash. The going rate here is $150 worth of food will get you $100 cash.

I think if you want my tax money, you should have to follow the rules. If those rules include random drug testing, get tested. No one is forced to be on welfare. My parents refused to go on welfare when they could have.

RedPowerLady's avatar

@WestRiverrat That happens but everyone shouldn’t be punished b/c of a few bad apples. Anyhow now many states don’t have paper stamps so it is much harder to do.

Well good for your parents but many people can’t survive without. I don’t get it, what people think of welfare. It’s about the kids. Even if it’s just plain old lazy joe we are looking out for joe’s kids by giving food stamps. They can’t help their situation.

CaptainHarley's avatar

If it were up to me, I would stand everyone who sells illegal drugs, or who buys illegal drugs, or who handles illegal drugs ( which the possible exception of marijuana ) against a wall and shot.

bright_eyes00's avatar

Just a side note, there are some positions that require random drug screenings as they should. When lives are in other peoples hands it is important that they be clean. (I’m talking about police officers, EMT’s, military…etc.) I am in the military and can be randomly drug tested. Looking around me at work I see a dozen or so individuals who I would not want to trust to watch my back if they were not in their natural state of mind.

And for the record, I feel that if a person is to receive welfare they should be subject to a random drug screening. I’m not a vicious or cruel person who would be willing to violate someone’s constitutional rights. However, if I have to be randomly tested to receive my paycheck and I work hard to receive it, then so should the people who get paid by my hardwork. I have known countless individuals personally who have intentionally raped the system because they are lazy and allowed to be. Because they aren’t mature or responsible enough to hold a basic job to support their family so they are allowed to do nothing, do drugs, and receive a check that lets them do it.

I understand that many don’t have a choice, but when it comes to illegal substances there is always a choice. I understand there are people with problems of addiction, but doesn’t the government pour thousands of dollars into rehabilitation centers for people who want to stop their drug use? When I was a little girl my step father was sent to a rehab. center because he was addicted to drugs. My mother had to turn to welfare in order to support my brother and me because she’s a disabled veteran who served in the Marines. When my step father was released from the rehab. center, I recall him telling my mother to keep receiving welfare. He went back on drugs and did nothing all day.

Every situation is different. I know that, but isn’t our society always changing its laws and regulations because of those few bad apples??

zophu's avatar

Sure, then pay for their rehab.

RedPowerLady's avatar

Hmm… So once again you would punish the children for the sins of their parents? Lets just be clear here.

WestRiverrat's avatar

I would have no problem paying for their rehab, once. If they don’t clean up kick them out of the system. If the parents are using drugs, they are not in any shape to care for the kids so the kids should go to CPS. When the parents clean up their act they can be reunited with their children.

RedPowerLady's avatar

@WestRiverrat But realistically the kids won’t go to CPS. It just won’t happen. So now they don’t get into CPS AND they starve?

CaptainHarley's avatar

Both “welfare” and “the war on drugs” are miserable failures. It’s time to re-emphisize individual responsibility.

bright_eyes00's avatar

@RedPowerLady And I wasn’t punished because no one would do anything about my drug addicted step father who beat me and my mother? He finally got arrested for the drugs and almost killing my mother and thrown in prison where she was able to get a divorce from him safely. My aunt’s boyfriend did the same thing to her while they repeatedly were in and out of county lock up for drug use and domestic violence all the while remaining on welfare. Please don’t make it seem like people who support drug screening don’t care about the children. Speaking from experience, the children are the main concern.

RedPowerLady's avatar

@bright_eyes00 How does removing the food stamps help said situation?

RedPowerLady's avatar

@CaptainHarley Agree about war on drugs. It was created as a political ploy and hasn’t worked. Stats show that.

However research shows that the majority of people who use welfare use it as a stepping stone just as it was created for. Temporary help.

CaptainHarley's avatar

@RedPowerLady

And that is fine, but accepting tax dollars for help should entail some sort of repayment, even if it’s just collecting trash from city parks.

RedPowerLady's avatar

@CaptainHarley I could get on board for community service hours for those who get welfare. But I wouldn’t say it should be picking up trash unless of course they wanted to.

dpworkin's avatar

@CaptainHarley No due process, no trials, just death squads? Do you hate America and what it stands for?

CaptainHarley's avatar

@RedPowerLady

Accepting welfare should cost the recipent something, even if just a few hours a week of community service. They might not have any say in what sort of service, since it would depend upon what’s available.

CaptainHarley's avatar

@dpworkin

Who said anything about “death squads?” Due process is still in the Constitution.

RedPowerLady's avatar

@CaptainHarley I disagree. I think one should be able to choose their service. There is community service all over. I’m sure everyone could find something they enjoy. I know b/c I volunteer all the time.

dpworkin's avatar

@CaptainHarley I quote:

If it were up to me, I would stand everyone who sells illegal drugs, or who buys illegal drugs, or who handles illegal drugs ( which the possible exception of marijuana ) against a wall and shot.

RedPowerLady's avatar

fixed typo if you refresh, oops

CaptainHarley's avatar

@RedPowerLady

We’re not talking here about “volunteering.” We’re talking about making it somewhat unpleasant to suck off the government teat. Welfare shouldn’t be a free ride.

CaptainHarley's avatar

@dpworkin

That’s what I said, yes. And… ???

RedPowerLady's avatar

@CaptainHarley I don’t see why you have to choose a “punishment”. People shouldn’t be “punished” for needing help. That is ridiculous. Give back sure, punish no. And volunteering is not a free ride.

CaptainHarley's avatar

@RedPowerLady

Last I heard volunteering was still… well… voluntary. Welfare should never be pleasant, but I never mentioned “punishment.”

RedPowerLady's avatar

@CaptainHarley Ya you did. You should said they shouldn’t like their service. Your words were “making it somewhat unpleasant”. Volunteer work can be mandated BTW, it is all the time. And why can’t getting needed assistance be pleasant? Why do you have to put more burden on the needy? Have you ever been needy?

WestRiverrat's avatar

@RedPowerLady most of the drug users will not buy their kids food before they get their fix. They will sell their kids to get their fix, if they run out of cash.

We have 200+ kids placed in our school by CPS or the courts, because of the damage caused by drugs and alcohol.

CaptainHarley's avatar

@RedPowerLady

LOL! I once ate nothing but Ramen Noodles for months because that’s all I could afford. Does that count? And “unpleasant” does not equate to “punishing.”

RedPowerLady's avatar

@WestRiverrat And how is removing their foodstamps going to help? I know from experience that drug users do use their food stamps to buy food. Even if they do sell half of them for money. I’m not denying the damage caused. What I am saying is how is removing food stamps going to help??

El_Cadejo's avatar

@CaptainHarley OMFG are you fucking kidding me? you really cant be serious…...

You made it a point to say illegal drugs. Does that mean the legal ones are better for us or something? You do realize alcohol is worse for society than most illegal drugs.

@WestRiverrat it is also important to note what drug users are we talking about here? coke? heroin? LSD? Marijuana? there are a huge difference between the types of people who use opiates vs hallcinogens.

RedPowerLady's avatar

@CaptainHarley Yes but why must it be unpleasant? Did you ever get so needy that you needed help? Is what I meant. And sounds like Ramen Noodles was college…..?

CaptainHarley's avatar

@uberbatman

Do you read history at all? We tried making the manufacturing and distribution of alcohol unconstitutional once, and it was a complete disaster. But two wrongs do not make a right. Take a good look at someone who has been a meth user for a couple of years and THEN tell me it should be legalized like alcohol.

El_Cadejo's avatar

@CaptainHarley let me ask you something. If meth were legalized tomorrow, would you take it?

CaptainHarley's avatar

@RedPowerLady

Nope. It was when I was about 56 years old.

bright_eyes00's avatar

My internet went down and when it came back up there was WAY too much conversation that I missed. Wow…sorry guys

RedPowerLady's avatar

@CaptainHarley Well I’ll stand corrected on that one point. But still beg to differ on the others ;).

thriftymaid's avatar

Just because they are on SSI? NO

RedPowerLady's avatar

@bright_eyes00 luckily the conversation is pretty much one liners so easy to read

CaptainHarley's avatar

@uberbatman

I despise both illegal drugs and those who sell/use/distribute/condone them, and I despise those who abuse alcohol.

bright_eyes00's avatar

@RedPowerLady I was going to respond that CPS does work and I experienced it first hand and witnessed it countless times growing up. Sometimes CPS was the best thing for the children involved, it was for my cousins who were adopted by a good family.

El_Cadejo's avatar

@CaptainHarley way to skirt my question.
You also never mentioned alcohol in your original and ignorant statement.

dpworkin's avatar

@CaptainHarley And that’s why I mentioned death squads and due process. Due process does not appear in your quote,

WestRiverrat's avatar

If they want to use drugs, I don’t care. I just don’t feel I should be required to finance an addicts habits. I keep hearing that drug use is a personal choice, what about my choice to not spend my grandkids money on someone else’s addiction.

RedPowerLady's avatar

@bright_eyes00 I’m not denying that CPS can work but it does miss a lot of kids. And I have first hand experience from those who were missed. Many who were missed. Many. And by missed I don’t mean they didn’t know about them. I mean they had several complaints and still didn’t do anything. The system is overloaded, they simply can’t help everyone.

CaptainHarley's avatar

@RedPowerLady

If all I could afford was Ramen Noodles ( at $1.00 for six packets ), then one must assume that I could have used a bit of help, yes. But I chose not to seek it because I knew there were those who needed it more, espeically children.

bright_eyes00's avatar

@dpworkin @CaptainHarley @uberbatman @WestRiverrat @RedPowerLady…I’m reading this and slightly laughing because it seems that I created a rather interesting debate about constitutional rights and legalization of narcotics.

RedPowerLady's avatar

@CaptainHarley And how do those children get that help? Through foodstamps….

There are several people who just don’t have the choice to go without the help.

El_Cadejo's avatar

I think the real answer is education and rehabilitation in regards to drug use. Ya know not death squads

CaptainHarley's avatar

@dpworkin

I didn’t mention due process because that’s in the Constitution. It’s part of the way we do business in this country.

WestRiverrat's avatar

@bright_eyes00 It is a great question.

bright_eyes00's avatar

@RedPowerLady Understandable, but that happens in EVERY situation. People are still getting away with murder and murderers are still being released from prison’s because they are overflowing but do you think they should stop being arrested or investigated? I know that is a situation very different but its something that our society and government haven’t fixed to perfection and neither is the child protection service.

CaptainHarley's avatar

@uberbatman

Yeah. Like that’s worked so well.

What many people forget is that society has a right to protect itself as well. And if individuals are too selfish or weak or stupid to understand that, they should be taken our of the gene pool ( after due process! ).

dpworkin's avatar

@CaptainHarley I see, so before you stand them up against the wall and shoot them you would have a trial. I’m glad you are just an ordinary schmo on the Internet without any legal power.

El_Cadejo's avatar

“murderers are still being released from prison’s because they are overflowing”
you realize this is because all the non violent drug offenders currently clogging our prison system

RedPowerLady's avatar

@bright_eyes00 My argument is that murder is different. I don’t knock CPS. I’m simply saying that taking away food stamps won’t help the situation b/c those kids of parents who test drug positive won’t necessarily get the help they need.

I think if they can offer legitimate help to those who test positive then I might be able to get behind it. But that would mean more tax dollar funding. Simply doing a drug test and then taking away the assistance does not solve the problem. In fact I bet you it would create more crime. In fact we know that it does. Just make a druggie poorer and they will end up on the streets with their kids, selling who knows what for money.

RedPowerLady's avatar

@CaptainHarley “ya like that’s worked”

And how have we seriously tried those approaches? We don’t. We criminalize.

CaptainHarley's avatar

@dpworkin

Dude. Think: method of punishment” rather than “kangaroo trials.”

bright_eyes00's avatar

@uberbatman Not true in every situation. It’s statistically proven that in California more inmates are illegals more so than petty drug users. That’s why I said that is a very drastic comparison. I was only trying to prove that society isn’t perfect, but we continue to change our laws and regulations as we evolve and as our needs and focuses are changed.

El_Cadejo's avatar

@CaptainHarley how can you say it hasn’t worked when we never tried? The government has never been honest with its people about drugs. Its all propaganda bullshit.

Kraigmo's avatar

Welfare recipients waste far more money on cell phones and cable TV, than on drugs.
Hell, if they give up the cell phone and cable, and switch to buying the occasional $20 sack… they’d actually be better off.

So no… let’s NOT test welfare recipients, because there’s too many things in their lives we can micromanage. So let’s not.

RedPowerLady's avatar

ahh… i so miss these debates

CaptainHarley's avatar

@uberbatman

it’s nice to see that you agree with me that the so-called “war on drugs” is a sham.

dpworkin's avatar

@CaptainHarley I believe I understand you now, and I am doubly glad you have no input in these matters.

njnyjobs's avatar

…going back to the topic, my opinion is Yes, drug testing of welfare recipients should be done as part of the qualification process. . . if those junkie parents will argue that the welfare benefits their children, then shouldn’t they make an attempt to rid themselves of their offending vices?

El_Cadejo's avatar

@CaptainHarley huge waste of money.

bright_eyes00's avatar

Not trying to invoke conspiracy theory mumbo jumbo but I believe its been said that the reason the government wont crack down on drugs in a harsher way is because they need it to keep society in a state of chaos in order for government to be necessary…or something like that…just food for thought…

RedPowerLady's avatar

@njnyjobs we are still on topic..

RedPowerLady's avatar

@bright_eyes00 Nah it’s b/c the war on drugs doesn’t work. Simple as that.

CaptainHarley's avatar

@dpworkin

As am I. Even IF I wanted to run for office ( which I don’t ), and even SHOULD I by some quirk of fate be elected, I wouldn’t be able to say with a straight face the things a politician in this Country feels compelled to say. I would either bust out laughing or lose my lunch!

dpworkin's avatar

Far better to legalize all drugs for personal use, sell them through licensed outlets and reap the bounty of the taxes. Who cares if people take drugs? Have we not control of our own bodies? If people commit crimes while on the legal drugs, then they should be arrested and tried. If they just get loaded, what the fuck is it to you? Are you one of these people who wants to crawl into bedrooms, too?

RedPowerLady's avatar

@Kraigmo Research actually says most welfare recipients use the money exactly how they are supposed to. Sorry for not supporting stereotypes.

Mamradpivo's avatar

I’m totally with @dpworkin on this one. Legalize and tax.

And, to return to the point of the question, drug tests shouldn’t be allowed by employers unless they have reason to believe that drug use has had a direct negative impact on someone’s work output.

CaptainHarley's avatar

@dpworkin

Drugs and their effects on individuals, families, and communities affect us all in a very negative way. I do NOT want some idiotic government functionary telling my children that it’s ok for them to use drugs when I have gone to great lengths to insure they despise drugs. I DO think that marijuana use should be legalized, but that’s my only concession.

bright_eyes00's avatar

@RedPowerLady so the guy using foodstamps to pay for all his groceries at the grocery store I worked at who drives a corvet…he doesn’t fall into the stereotypes? Or the pot head with twin 7 year old girls who plays XBox Live all day? Stats are just numbers that give politicians and lobbyists peace of mind. With something as broad as this its hard to get an accurate number. People will make people believe they need support if they are threatened to lose it. regardless of the actual need

Kraigmo's avatar

@RedPowerLady , Have you ever seen a welfare mom without a cell phone? I haven’t. Maybe they’re out there in private, but in public, they love their cell phones. Just like non-welfare people.

Problem is…. what are people on welfare doing with cell phone and/or cable? That’s highly irresponsible of people who have limited money.

But like I said, I don’t want to make these people go through stupid tests to get their money. I want them to have freedom like everyone else.

dpworkin's avatar

@CaptainHarley Your answer doesn’t make sense. Government control is when the State tells you what to do. Personal rights is when you teach your children not to use drugs. Why do you care what other people do, and why would you want Big Government interfering in their lives? You’re not making any sense at all. Are you sure you’re not stoned yourself?

RedPowerLady's avatar

@bright_eyes00 Sounds like you are using anecdotes to support your theory.

Yes there are people that fit the stereotype. But they are not the norm.

And really what fuels the politicians is the welfare stereotype. Not the truth, that it works.

WestRiverrat's avatar

I still think they should be tested randomly. I am condfident most will pass the testing.

If someone does test positive, they should be given the choice of completing rehab or leaving the system. If they go to rehab they should continue to get the assistance. If they complete rehab and test positive again the should be forced to choose the second option.

@Kraigmo if they were using their own money, they would not have to worry about being tested. They would only get tested if they were taking taxpayer money.

El_Cadejo's avatar

@CaptainHarley your ignorance of drugs is deafening….

RedPowerLady's avatar

@Kraigmo Yes I know many people on welfare who don’t have cellphones.
Of course there are many that do and I can support the idea that they should have a cheaper land line. Of course this doesn’t apply to foodstamps.

bright_eyes00's avatar

@dpworkin “Why do you care what other people do…” Because what other people do dictates what affects me and mine. I’m not saying its right to be nosey and delve into other people’s lives without permission but its done all the time. What you do behind closed doors is all good with me until it begins to have a negative affect on me. That’s when I start to care.

CaptainHarley's avatar

@dpworkin

I see no essential conflicts in what I have said. Please point them out to me.

“Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds.”

Kraigmo's avatar

@WestRiverrat , why do you focus your idea on drug users? A pot smoking welfare recipient who spends $60 a month on two sacks, is somehow worse than a sober welfare recipient who pays $90 a month in cable or phone bills?

Why not make sure they aren’t wasting their money on cable and cell phones?
And if they’re fat, why not make them lose weight first?

Why do you wanna discriminate like that, as if the drug using welfare recipients somehow waste more money than other welfare recipients?

RedPowerLady's avatar

@WestRiverrat I could get on board with your idea. If drug testing was required help would need to be offered before removing assistance. However we must keep in mind that most addicts relapse. So the rules would have to be a bit more flexible IMO. And of course if they have kids food stamps should only be pulled if they know CPS etc… is actively on the case. IMO.

CaptainHarley's avatar

@uberbatman

Good! I take great pride in knowing very little about drugs.

bright_eyes00's avatar

@RedPowerLady not saying I’m against welfare. I know first hand that it does. My biggest thing is not to take welfare away. I just wish there was some way to fix it. I just wish it wasn’t so broken and that people wouldn’t be dishonest. But then again, that would be living in the fantasy land of integrity and responsibility for your own actions. No where near reality.

Response moderated
bright_eyes00's avatar

@uberbatman WO there! That is definitely not a needed response.

RedPowerLady's avatar

@bright_eyes00 I can agree with all of that.

dpworkin's avatar

@CaptainHarley No thanks. I don’t think you are rational. There is no real point in discussing this with you. I hope no one subjects you to your type of draconian punishment for trivial offenses. Good night.

El_Cadejo's avatar

@bright_eyes00 no its completely valid. How can one argue a topic they no nothing about?

WestRiverrat's avatar

@Kraigmo Because as of now, drug use is illegal. The other items you mentioned are legal. If drug use was made legal tomorrow, I would not take the same stance I am taking now.

CaptainHarley's avatar

@uberbatman

I don’t need to know much about drugs except that they adversely affect everything they touch. And I certainly do NOT need to resort to profanity and name-calling to get my point across.

zophu's avatar

Drugs are your own personal satan eh, @CaptainHarley ?

Do some research about what you have such strong beliefs about.

bright_eyes00's avatar

@uberbatman I meant that you could have said that in a very different way without profanity and being rude.

CaptainHarley's avatar

@zophu

I know very little about rape, but I don’t need to know anything else about it to know that it’s unacceptable.

bright_eyes00's avatar

@uberbatman I do agree that if there is limited knowledge on a subject then there should be limited input though.

zophu's avatar

@CaptainHarley

You’re being irrational, you really draw no fundamental differences between RAPE and drugs? Do you see what you’re saying here?

El_Cadejo's avatar

@CaptainHarley You are blanketing all drugs together. Many can be used in very positive ways. Leading to a healthier outlook on life. A heroin user isnt the same as one who occasionally takes LSD.

@bright_eyes00 im very blunt by nature

heh blunts

CaptainHarley's avatar

@zophu

I don’t know much about earthquakes either, but I know they have some rather serious effects on those near the epicenter.

El_Cadejo's avatar

OMFG am i really reading this….

bright_eyes00's avatar

@uberbatman I understand but I would appreciate it greatly if this isn’t turned into a huge mess of inarticulate unintelligent name calling (that’s how i see the use of profanity, not saying you are inarticulate or unintelligent)

dpworkin's avatar

If you object to a post, please flag it and let a mod decide. I don’t think all of you need to pile on to @uberbatman in this thread. You are not hall monitors, and no one really cares what you think of anyone’s post. We care what you think about the subject.

RedPowerLady's avatar

okay okay this is a welfare debate people and only minorly a drug debate, should I post a picture of a hot girl/guy? that has worked before to diffuse an argument, lol

bright_eyes00's avatar

@dpworkin I was just discussing why I commented on his post. I’m not piling on. I was enjoying this debate before people started to seem like they were attacking each other. It was going very well for a while there.

bright_eyes00's avatar

@RedPowerLady I’m starting to think that might work! can you sense the aggression?? haha

RedPowerLady's avatar

@bright_eyes00 Too bad pics don’t show up here like they do on chat

CaptainHarley's avatar

Will someone PLEASE rationally explain to me why being in favor of having welfare recipients work for what they are given is wrong, and why being against illegal drugs is not kewl??

bright_eyes00's avatar

@RedPowerLady :P agreed…you are a rather smart/clever woman hahaha

augustlan's avatar

[mod says] Flame off, folks.

El_Cadejo's avatar

Because you have no rational reason as to actually hate drugs. You are completely ignorant to a vast majority of them, yet you seem to be under the impression all are comparable to heroin and cocaine. Educate yourself before formulating such strong opinions such as death squads for anyone who does drugs.

Now… I am done with this for tonight. Im going to go smoke a bowl and try and forget any of this ever happened….fuck…..

RedPowerLady's avatar

@bright_eyes00 Well thank you and likewise :) :P

Response moderated
RedPowerLady's avatar

got to go for the night, baby is hungry and i need to try and sleep when she does, take care, and thanx for the great debate, i’ve truly missed my fluther debates oh and hey why does fluther come up mispelled on fluther?, lol

Captain_Fantasy's avatar

I see no reason to drug test people unless there is just cause to do so.

CaptainHarley's avatar

LMAO @pdworkin

bright_eyes00's avatar

@dpworkin wow…thank you for showing me the level of maturity that is acceptable on this site

zophu's avatar

Almost all illegal drugs should probably be pretty much illegal. And, people on welfare should probably be given jobs. . . Not that that matters.

These debates are kind of pointless. This is all a part of the control system. Nothing fundamental is going to be changed until the overlords are willing and able to make those changes.

If you think you’re able to come up with good ideas about how things should work, don’t you think there are probably countless like you? The authorities of the ridiculous social systems we are forced to live in should be the focus of concern, not specifics like how to handle a single aspect of those in poverty. We live in exponential times, there’s no time for “due process.”

fuck cunt shit

dpworkin's avatar

@bright_eyes00 You are very welcome, and I hope you put it to good use.

CaptainHarley's avatar

Let’s get real about all this. Druggies will do ANYTHING for their next fix. They will sell their childrens’ food, their clothes and the children themselves. When they run out of things to sell, they will steal things to sell. I am talking about drugs like heroin, crack cocaine, cocaine, methamphetamines, etc., not about marijuana and hash and other similiar drugs. Personally, I think mariuana should be removed from the list of controlled substances. And as for punishment for drug use or possession, the death penalty is a bit extreme, but I don’t have any real answers for the problems that drugs create.

zophu's avatar

You’re talking about addicts. There are legal drugs that when used, even under doctor’s prescription, can cause addiction. It’s not just the illegal drug users that suffer from addiction.

For all addicts, medical rehabilitation and education are the basic solution. That or extermination.

CaptainHarley's avatar

Yes, I am talking about addicts. But since we have no way of knowing WHO is going to become an addict, we must treat every user as someone who can become an addict, yes?

dpworkin's avatar

@CaptainHarley Where do you get that crap from? B movies? TV? Bad comic books? I know plenty of drug addicts, because I have worked for agencies which counsel them, and I have never encountered that kind of extreme behavior. Where have you encountered it, or are you just blowing it out your ass?

CaptainHarley's avatar

I’m just blowing it out my ass, dude. Sigh.

dpworkin's avatar

That’s what I figured. Now it all makes sense.

CaptainHarley's avatar

Goodnight, all. It’s been real and it’s been fun… uh… but it ain’t been real fun.

BTW… do some research on how China conqured its opium problem a few decades back.

zophu's avatar

Uh, I guess. Users of addictive substances can become addicts. They should be educated. . . But most popular addictive drugs are addictive after only a few effective doses. Sometimes one.

The problem is that there is always a demand. Drugs are too useful for mass oppression for people to reasonably give up all suspicion of the trade being supported for that reason. And if that is absolutely not the case, then it’s incompetence in the police and public educators. I was taught by people similar to the way of your thinking. ALL DRUGS ARE BAD DON’T DO DRUGS DRUGS WILL KILL YOU AHHHHHHH AHHHHHHH AHHHHHHHHH!

Then I discovered marijuana and shrooms, (which I don’t use regularly.) People like you keep people on the addictive, life-crippling shit by lumping everything illegal in with it. Even the average idiot wouldn’t put poison into their system if they clearly understood why it was poison and that their sources for that information were reliable.

“You tell me marijuana kills brain cells because you did a study suffocating monkeys with it? Fuck off. I bet crack’s okay for you too.”

Rangie's avatar

In regard to the Q, nobody should get something for nothing. There are no freebies, or at least there should not be. It does not help anybody. Yes, I personally do think they should be tested. That is our money that is being used, and I would rather they feed their family, than use it on drugs, if they do that sort of thing. If they don’t then they need not worry. I don’t know about the rest of you, but I get a little put off when I go to the supermarket, and the person in front of me has food stamps. Their basket is full of big steaks, a lot of junk food, a case of beer, and cereal and chips for the kids. If my money is feeding that family, I would not feed the adults with expensive meat and cereal for the kids. If they make those kinds of bad choices, what’s to say they wouldn’t throw some away on drugs. TEST. My son had to be tested to work for New York Life. No problem, would you want someone handling a great deal of your money, and having all the knowledge about your finances, while they use drugs. not me. Not only should they be tested, they should have a time line to get out and find work. Welfare was only suppose to be temporary help, during a tough time, not a permanent way of life.

alive's avatar

only if everyone in the US is tested. We all get some kind of tax return don’t we? some of us get government money that pays for schooling. what about non-profit organizations that receive government grants? should all those people be tested as well before receiving the money?

plus, some drugs like alcohol are legal. is testing about making sure no one is spending money on anything that is a drug? should we take away the right of people on welfare to drink, even if they are 21?

sorry if that was already said. tried to read the whole thread, eyes burning

Rangie's avatar

@alive each of the things you listed are not welfare. Our tax refund is our own money. Money for schooling, hum what are you doing for the money. Going to school Right. Government Grants are repaid with the research that was done or what ever the purpose of the Grant.
Nobody said take their rights away. I am saying they have an obligation to their family and the people that pay their check. What are they doing to earn it? Give me one example, just one good example.

alive's avatar

@Rangie

kids in college smoke weed.

you don’t pay back grants. the research could go nowhere, but the money’s all spent.

ok ,maybe the tax refund per se is “your money” but the taxes that are not refunded are distributed to things all people use (i.e. roads. schools. etc) so by this logic, we should test everyone.

do you know anyone on welfare or that has needed to use the welfare program? have you ever been down and out yourself?

if you knew anything about the program besides the misunderstanding that it is “free money” then you would know that you must meet many requirements to be eligible for access to the progrm. for example you must actively be searching for a job or you must be enrolled in some kind of career training and/or vocational training program. (of course every state does have its own specific requirements. but there is some standardization nation wide). everyone has a case worker that monitors your progress. most programs end in under a year.

Rangie's avatar

@alive Oh my gosh, kids in college are going to school. they are not hanging around doing nothing and taking money from all of us.
The research is still being done. They are not taking the money and doing nothing. Besides the research might just be one of the greatest contributors in society.
I am not quite sure of your point on the non refunded tax issue. That money is used to make improvements and the people that are working to do that are earning that money.
Give me a break, I do personally know folks on welfare, and they have been on it for generations. They don’t have anywhere enough employees to monitor even a small amount of those receiving welfare. I am not a kid with crazy ideas, I have been around quite a long time, observing a great many things in our society. So, I beg your pardon, I do know something about the program. And lets stay on subject, should they be drug tested or not. Not everyone in the country, just because they receive government money for what they do should be tested. Certain things require a clearer head than other things in the job force, and you know it. So lets stop the knit picking and get to the Q at hand.

CaptainHarley's avatar

@Rangie

Exactly! There IS no “free lunch.” Somebody always pays, and I think anyone on welfare should bear at least part of the payment.

Rangie's avatar

@CaptainHarley I get agitated when someone outright says, if you knew anything about xxx, then xxx. When they have no idea what I know.
My first husband worked on a Grant that sent him the the Louis Pasteur Institute to study. With that research while in the program, it eventually led him into the research that allowed him to to be instrumental in the discovery of Interferon. And as a result of that Grant is working on other very important things for the benefits of society. Money well spent. Can anyone say money well spent, on welfare recipients? I mean what are those people giving back to society?

dpworkin's avatar

What do croupiers at the Casino contribute to society? Maybe we should euthanize welfare recipients and croupiers. And by the way, what, exactly, do you contribute? Written any symphonies lately?

Rangie's avatar

@dpworkin To whom are you speaking?

gemiwing's avatar

Yes, as long as we drug test anyone who rides a bus, drives on a road (in any form), mails a letter, watches FCC regulated television and eats any food or medicine regulated by the FDA.

Rangie's avatar

@dpworkin I work to earn money. What do you do? Croupiers are doing a job to earn their money.
That is a really silly remark “maybe we should euthanize welfare recipients.” Nobody even hinted at such a thing. You don’t have to be obnoxious to make a point. I get your point. Would you pay your grown kids to sit around your house watching TV? I doubt it.

Facade's avatar

I don’t see how that would help anything. Prescription drugs are just as dangerous as drugs our government deems illegal. Alcohol is up there as well.

dpworkin's avatar

So, I guess you’ve got nothin’.

Rangie's avatar

@dpworkin Just what is your point? You don’t make sense. What do you mean you guess I have nothing?

Rangie's avatar

@Facade It is not the danger of the drugs, prescription or not. It is spending the money that was meant to feed their family, being used on drugs. This whole thing is about where the welfare money is going. So, I have come to a conclusion. All of you that think it is okay for welfare recipient to do nothing for the money they receive, then you pay them. I don’t want to. I have an aversion to lazy people.

Facade's avatar

@Rangie You can’t regulate what people do with their money. That’s like your employer telling you what to do with your money.

Rangie's avatar

@Facade Did I say anything about telling people what to do with their money? No. The money the welfare people are getting is not earned money, It was given to them to take care of their families. What is wrong with you people. Can’t you read what someone is writing? I believe the Welfare Department has a right to regulate what is going on with the people receiving money. In some cases they require them to go to school, actively look for work, and such. The only problem is they don’t have the resources to enforce that, and the recipients know that. If you are going to make an argument, at least make it a good one.

dpworkin's avatar

@Rangie Either I do not make sense, or you are not sensate. We are not sure which.

Rangie's avatar

@dpworkin To answer your Q, you do not make sense. We are not talking about what I have or don’t have. Maybe your are on so many threads, you are forgetting which one you are on. We are talking about drug testing Welfare recipients. What does that have to do with what I have. Please give me a decent answer, not some so called smart ass remarks.

alive's avatar

@Rangie i answered the question. we should only test welfare recipients if (and only if) we test every citizen.

you are making like a thousand assumptions here. the biggest assumption you are making is assuming people are spending welfare on drugs instead of food for their kids.

your profile says you live(d) in cali. funny. because what you said about “knowing” people on welfare who have been on it for “generations” that is just not possible. look up that cali welfare program. it is called

“California Work Opportunities and Responsibilities to Kids” program, a.k.a. CalWorks

The maximum monthly salary that a person can be making for a household of two and still qualify for assistance is $918. If you are a single parent with one child and you make more than $918/month you are automatically disqualified to receive any welfare. (that means if you work 40 hours a week and make $11.40 an hour you are not eligible) that is only 3 dollars more than min wage, meant to support 2 people. its not like these people are actually rich. they have to pay for housing, usually some kind of child care, food for 2, clothes, car or bus, phone, etc. things that people need. rent alone in LA, a low estimate is $500. that is half the budget, not including utilities. i just honestly don’t believe that you know anyone who is ON welfare. people on welfare are fucking poor. and if giving some of my pay check to them means that i am a little better off then the dirt poor, i am happy to give it away

(also, some people can attend school for one, two, three years etc, and never graduate. that money if given in a gov. grant form is never repaid. they are not completing their edu, bye bye tax money)

denise100pct's avatar

I have worked and lived with welfare recipients that are drug users (heroine, crack, etc.). The cash assistance and food stamps most recieve do not go to help the families. It goes for their habit. They will do anything to get their“fix”. They do not care that their child is hungry. They only care about their addiction. They should me made to get into treatment and I don’t mean the three day give them a bottle of meth and send them on their way. I mean real treatment that works.Welfare should help them with this as part of their assistance. They should be made to show what they purchased for their children with the cash assistance and food stamps. The children are the 1st priority. The home should be closely monitored to make sure the children are being taken care of. Some of you made the comment the children shouldn’t suffer for their parents mistakes and I agree. The reality of the situation living with an addict is suffering.

alive's avatar

@denise100pct i don’t know any drug dealers that take food stamps… and a bottle of meth?? never heard of that kind of treatment…

zophu's avatar

@alive There’s a market for food stamps. They can be converted into cash. “I’ll buy your $50 worth of foodstamps for $30 and you can go get your hit.” And you know, drug dealers need to eat too.

WestRiverrat's avatar

@alive The dealers on the reservations prefer food stamps to cash. Because they charge $50 in food stamps or $30 cash for the same amount of product. As @zophu said, drug dealers eat too.

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