General Question

brownlemur's avatar

Oy Vey.

Asked by brownlemur (4069 points ) March 10th, 2008

I am getting somewhat aggravated with the use of this site as a conduit through which proselytizing flows. I am by no means anti-religion. If you worship something, that is fine, but leave me out of it. Most frustrating among the recent questions and answers on Fluther regarding religion is the skew towards Christianity. Christianity is not the only religion, and shame on those who claim it to be the “true” religion.

Some of you are throwing your arms up in the air because the atheists (myself included) are being so exclusionary and short-sighted. To that I say look in the mirror – just because you grew up in a culture or an arena of learning that taught that your particular faith is the one and only does not make it so.

There are so many other faiths in this world. Are you saying that the Billions of people on Earth who did not have the prescience to be born into a Christian community are doomed because they do not worship the right deity? Are geneticists around the world now fated to spend eternity in Hades because the Pope just decreed genetic engineering a sin today (he did)?

Your thoughts? As per usual, let the logorrhea flow freely….

Observing members: 0 Composing members: 0

36 Answers

delirium's avatar

I agree. I really need to stop responding to them. It is Not what fluther is for.

The private bible thumping going on is really annoying too. It makes me even more vehemently opposed to the questions. And makes me have particular dislike for a few members here.

I mostly respond because such things shouldn’t go unopposed.

TheHaight's avatar

every faith Iswonderful and I am open to all of it, but brownlemur, in the other forum you stated that people who are christian/worship God only do the right thing because God might get mad at them or something, not because they truly want to do it. So I decided to privatley comment you so I could get more of your opinion on it privately. And I’m waiting.

squirbel's avatar

I do not have a religion. I was not raised in one. I have not been saved. I do,how ever, have an unyielding belief in God. Just because I believe does not mean I do not reason.

I’ll speak for Christians or any religion:

You are tossing Christians into box and claiming they are all blind, do not reason, and follow the tradition of their society without reasonable cause. That in itself is unscientific and does not offer invesigation.

Riser's avatar

I understand where you’re coming from brownlemur. I am in the same boat as you, however your statement “and shame on those who claim to be the “true religion” is just as offending as those who have offended you.

The only truth I abide by is “opinion.” I believe that there is no absolute truth within the confines of a religious context, including Atheism. For all I know Jesus could be the only way to “Heaven” at the same time that possibility could be a big vat of shit.

The TRUTH is we only have opinions and your opinion is conjuring the same closed-mindedness as those you accuse.

Still I respect where you’re coming from. I have seen a great deal of negativity spew out of the mouths of some of the Christians on Fluther and I have since PMed several of them.

Highest Regards,

Daniel Riser

cwilbur's avatar

See the response I just made to shorty here:

http://www.fluther.com/disc/8116/what-events-or-experiences-in-your-life-have-hinted-or-suggested/

As far as I’m concerned, unwanted proselytizing is no better than spam, and ought to be flagged as such.

TheHaight's avatar

your making it sound like christians/Catholics are all the same, ol fashioned, shove there beliefs down peoples throats-kinda-people. But here’s the thing,,.... I’m not one of them and most arent these days. Just the really old fashioned ones from like, fuc-in roman times. My father is buddhist, I’m half japanese and Mexican, I pretty much am open to so many possiblities and cultures. For you to say that were all the same just Is so close minded.

cwilbur's avatar

@TheHaight: there’s a really small minority of very loud Christians who represent the rest of us very poorly. Alas, with the recent influx of posters, these Christians have been disproportionately represented.

squirbel's avatar

I personally have rarely even clicked on shorty’s or besafe’s questions because their intent is obvious from get-go. I know each of you knew exactly what their intent was before you clicked. When you answer something you KNOW you disagree with, especially an idealogy that is very forceful, you only perpetuate it. Just don’t open them. Flag it as a “leading question” – those can never be won.

But most importantly, do not perpetuate the idea that the minority represents the majority. Not every Muslim is a jihadist.

segdeha's avatar

@delirium, Perhaps we need to suggest to the Fluther gods the ability to block particular users from sending private messages.

cwilbur's avatar

@squirbel: They can’t be flagged as leading questions. They can, however, be responded to, pointing them out for the intellectual frauds they are.

@segdeha: I’d be in favor of a general-purpose “ignore.” There are probably a dozen people I’d have applied it to already, all of them newcomers in the past week.

delirium's avatar

That sounds like a very good idea. I know that other users that i’ve talked to about this have been victims of the abusively obnoxious bible-thumping minority as well. Its bordered on creepy in some cases.

Riser's avatar

“something else” I’m sure can suffice, especially if it made clear to Ben and Andrew the collectives’ needs.

cwilbur's avatar

@delirium: they have not yet begun to be creepy. You ain’t seen creepy until your church services have been picketed by Fred Phelps.

TheHaight's avatar

why do I feel like I’m being attacked for stating my opinion, and I really don’t think I’m being that abusive-obnoxious-bible-thumping whatever, but your making me seem like I am…

delirium's avatar

You’re putting that upon yourself Haight. I’m being very careful to not point out anything specifically.

@Cwilbur: Eee. Okay, that’s what I call putting perspective on my statement. ;)

sfgirl's avatar

Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t this website state:‘You ask a question. We get it to the right people. Everyone discusses the answer.’

That leaves it pretty open to whatever comes along in my book…but hey, I’m a newbie…what do I know…

cwilbur's avatar

@sfgirl: that means a discussion, not a Socratic dialogue intended to harangue people into converting to the One True Religion.

jrpowell's avatar

@sfgirl

There is a difference between having a question and pushing your agenda. Asking about the Bible is fine. Asking or telling me to read to Bible is not OK.

And you have been a good member of this little corner of the Internet. Thanks.

TheHaight's avatar

its kind of hard to not put that upon yourself when your the only person here, speaking up and saying not all Christians are stamped into that category.

iSteve's avatar

Not touching this one with a 10 foot pole…

fafnet's avatar

I think people should be allowed to believe what ever they want. I do not like when people use religion as an excuse for things

cwilbur's avatar

@TheHaight: I think you misunderstood what I wrote earlier – there’s a small minority of very loud, very obnoxious Christians who represent the rest of us very poorly.

I’m a liberal Episcopalian myself—if it weren’t for that Trinity thing and the apostolic succession, I’d be somewhere in the Unitarian-Universalist camp myself.

breedmitch's avatar

I say keep it in church. “Wittnessing” for God is really the most unattractive part of modern Christianity.

TheHaight's avatar

thanks cwilbur, I understand..

sfgirl's avatar

@johnpowell and cwilbur – I agree with you that people shouldn’t be pushing their agendas in regard to anything, including religion…but the comment brownlemur put up didn’t seem to me that it was referring specifically to these people who are essentially “throwing their religion in your face” but rather just annoyed by any question regarding Christianity…but maybe I read it wrong and I’ve not been here long enough to really notice these comments…

Continue on….

squirbel's avatar

@sfgirl: I had the same reading, hence my “logorrhea”^2.

scamp's avatar

We were taught to witness, not ram our beliefs down another’s throat. I have learned alot in the last few days about other people’s beliefs. I just wish we could discuss our differences without so much anger. Where is Rodney King when we need him? Can’t we all just get along? I agree with the main point of this thread… but not just the Christians. We just all need to learn that we don’t all believe the same things and leave it at that. I believe in God.. some of you don’t. That does not make either of us better than the other.. just different.

We have some very intelligent people here. and I am enjoying learning from all of you. But I think I should steer clear of the threads about religion because all I see in them over the past couple of days is anger.

brownlemur's avatar

@thehaight – “brownlemur, in the other forum you stated that people who are christian/worship God only do the right thing because God might get mad at them or something, not because they truly want to do it. So I decided to privatley comment you so I could get more of your opinion on it privately. And I’m waiting.”

That wasn’t me.

TheHaight's avatar

haha oh fuc-... I went back and looked and it was fafnet. I didnt look good enough because both your answers were next to eachother. I appologize, seriously. I was just upset that fafnet would say such a thing and assumed it was you because I didnt look good enough. in my part, that was completely my fault. I just couldnt believe someone could say something like that. Sorry :(

cwilbur's avatar

@scamp: the anger isn’t because of religion, it’s because of the attitude that some people bring to the table. It’s a grand thing to be strong in your convictions, but discussion is a two-way street: if you come here convinced that you’re completely correct and that your role is to bring people to (your interpretation of) Christ, you’re going to annoy the people who agree with you in the large but have a different interpretation of Christ, the people who agree with you in specifics but find your tactics inappropriate for a friendly discussion site, and the people who do not see any need to be brought to Christ, perhaps because they have another source of meaning in their life, and find being harangued about religion to be tedious.

scamp's avatar

I agree with you cwilbur, and what I was trying to say was very similar to what you have just said. My post was in response to breedmitch when he said “I say keep it in church. “Wittnessing” for God is really the most unattractive part of modern Christianity.” I was also agreeing with him to a certain degree. I was trying to say that we are taught to witness to others, but not in the way I have seen it done here. I am actually embarrassed by what some of the others have done here. They may think they are taking a stand for what they believe in, while in all actuality, there are only pushing people away, and making fools of themselves. It has made it very uncomfortable for me to even read any post that remotely touches on religion, and that’s a shame. I was beginning to learn some new things about different beliefs up to that point. For example, I had never heard of secular humanism until delirium posted about it. She has an excellent way of getting her ideas out there, and I was learning something new. that fascinated me. but with the name calling and arguing that has been going on, I just want to steer clear of posts of this nature. I am here to learn, to share views, and maybe even have a laugh or two. I never preached to anyone here, nor do I intend to. that’s not my style at all. I just hope we can settle down and stop the fighting. .Do you see my point? I

cwilbur's avatar

@scamp: yes, I see your point. Unfortunately, it takes both sides to agree to a cease-fire. On the other hand, it looks like the proselytizing has died down, so perhaps the worst offenders have either moderated themselves so as to participate more effectively, or perhaps they have taken my advice and started blogs for the purpose of witnessing. Possibly both.

Poser's avatar

I take issue with brownlemur’s statement: “Shame on those who claim it to be the ‘true’ religion.”

Who adheres to a religion they don’t believe to be the one true religion? Most atheists I’ve spoken with believe atheism to be the one true answer. How could you believe in something that explicitly proclaims to be the one true answer and not believe it’s the one true answer? And how arrogant is it to try to shame people for their convictions?

Believe it or not—and I’ll be the first to admit that some Christians here haven’t demonstrated this—it is possible to believe that you have the true answer while allowing others their right to respectfully disagree. Spritual matters are deeply personal, and while I may believe my way is the “correct” way, I can also respect that you may come to different conclusions.

I’m no stranger to over-zealous preaching. However, I’ve seen plenty of belittling of Christians on the part of non-Christians on Fluther posts—not for the manner in which they present their beliefs, but for holding the beliefs at all.

creativejuices's avatar

I try to stay away from topics that garner such heated debates… unless I get to smack someone…. then I’m all for it.

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