Permissive parenting or progressive?

The only thing that is the same about them is they both start with a “P”

A parent who would allow underage sex or drug use in the home or even alchol is breaking the law. At the very least I would say this kind of parenting is negelectful. They don’t want to take the time to teach their child right from wrong. It’s just called keeping your kid alive but you can’t call it parenting. Children rely on adults to make adult decisions because they don’t have the capability of making adult decisions. They don’t always see the full ramifications of their actions and tend to react rather than think things out. I would hardly call it progressive to cop out of your kids life.

The worst thing a parent can do to their child is try to be the child’s best friend. They will make plenty of friends in their lifetime, if they are lucky they will have one or two good ones.

They only have 1 set of parents. A parent’s job is not to be popular, your job is to give the child the tools (s)he will need to cope with life. If you don’t teach your kids that life isn’t always fair, who will?

Those scenarios you presented are repulsive to me. A parent who smokes weed or does drugs with their kid, including alcohol, are completely destroying the caretaker role that is a vital part of a child’s psychological make up. As WestRiverrat said, the parent s to play the role of parent, not friend. I have told my own daughter that I am her parent, not her friend. She NEEDS to see me as a mother/caretaker. SHe needs a rock during the storms she will encounter. If I am her friend, who does she have to turn to? That does a serious psychological number on a child’s head. Plus, Pandora is right. It’s illegal for a reason. Drugs and alcohol negatively affect the regulation, growth and development of a child, ans certainly disrupt brain function and development.

A parent isn’t just a biological producer of a living human. A parent is responsible for that child until the child has the maturity to make safe choices for their life. It is gross negligence for that parent to allow behavior that is destructive, as well as illegal, and criminal, in my opinion, for the parent to facilitate it.

Presently, I am watching the results of such parental neglect in a young (17 year old) woman, whose mother allowed, even encouraged, her to engage in sexually compromising behaviors as young as 14. The mother has just thrown this daughter out of her home for some of those behaviors. I hold this mother responsible for any mishap which befalls her daughter as a result of this negligence and abuse.

The examples you give are neither “progressive” nor “permissive,” but idiotic. Not all kids want to have sex. Not all kids want to booze it up. Not all kids want to commit suicide… should we give them all loaded guns and say, “Oh well, they’re going to do it anyway?”

A child knows what he or she lives with… what they grow up with. I raised five responsible adults by raising responsible children. If you want to raise irresponsible adults, then go ahead… raise your children irresponsibly.

Well, many of those things kids will do whether or not you try to stop it. The only way to prevent it entirely would be to never allow your kid to hang out with their friends, which obviously isn’t realistic.

It depends if intelligence is involved. Does the teen know to always have safe sex no matter what and to never deviate from that? Does the teen know how to handle encounters with police? Encounters with bad people? Encounters with “good citizens” who might nark on them? Do they know not to litter, not to harm others, not to waste water? Or is life just a stupid playground for stupid people?

Usually overly permissive parents cause just as many problems as overly strict parents.

But some progressively permissive parents are raising very intelligent, well balanced offspring.

The two examples you cited ( underage drinking and sex) are not equal. Providing liquor or even allowing underage teens at a party to drink in your home are flat out illegal and parents have been prosecuted for it, particularly when other peoples children were involved.

So that is both stupid and illegal.

Providing contraception and allowing them to have sex in your home is a totally different scenario. Firstly, it’s not illegal.

Secondly, intelligent responsible parents have vastly differing opinions on the subject.

The percentages of teenage, out of wedlock pregnancies here in the US is extraordinarily high compared to some European countries with a different philosophy on the issue.

The prevailing emphasis of the European approach is on preventing underage pregnancy by the liberal availibility of contraceptives AND the continuing education on the importance of using it regularly. Preventing premature pregnancy and rational discussions on why this is important to achieve life goals prevails.

Contrast this with the US emphasis on preventing sex and all the emotionalism and guilt-inducing moralistic pronouncements that go along with it.

The Abstinence-Only movement here in the States bears quite a bit of the responsibility for the high teenage pregnancy and abortion rate.

In many European countries, the emphasis is much more on education and ongoing discussion. Many of these parents prefer that if their kids are going to have sex, that it is done in as safe and responsible way as possible. There is not a whole lot of this hush hush shame based Puritanism that is so prevalent inthe US.

The birth rates speak for themselves. Are these European parents somehow less caring or responsible toward their children simply because they have a different outlook on the issue?

I’m not saying that I feel personally comfortable with their way of doing things, but it’s obvious that the US way has is not working.

Somewhere there is a happy medium between the two because the “just say no” approach to sex clearly isn’t doing the job.

Bristol Palin is but one glaring example of the failure of the abstinence-only approach.

There are thousands of teen girls in much poorer circumstances than hers for whom a teen pregnancy becomes and end to their aspirations for higher education.

As I mentioned, I’m not necessarily personally comfortable with the European degree of sexual permissiveness regarding young people, but the existence of their philosophy and methods of dealing with it should be acknowledged because it’s working in terms of reducing underage pregnancies. Obviously they are doing something right. Could we learn something valuable from that? I think we would be foolish to not even consider it.

I think it must be very difficult to be a parent in this day & age. I can see the validity in describing the scenarios as either permissive or progressive. I actually think it has alot to do with the individual teenager & that there is no blanket, yes or no answer to this. I drank, had underage sex, & did drugs before the age of 16….. would my mum have been better off letting me do those things at home, had she known what I was up to….. in reality, yes, probably. Am I advising others to do that…... not a chance.

@Buttnostic “There is not a whole lot of this hush hush shame based Puritanism that is so prevalent in the US.” Is it really that “hush hush” here in the US (sex speak that is)? Every night on primetime I can count at least a half a dozen tacit sex scenes or innuendoes about sex, sexual acts, self pleasuring and that is before the endless commercials trying to use sex to sell me everything from eye glasses, perfume, breath freshener, tooth paste, burgers etc. Sex is by no way on the back burner that I can see. It is just spoken of in code and out the back door than up front.

Progressive or permissive, the number one job of being a parent is teaching your child all about the word no!! From “no you can’t have that”! to “NO don’t drink, do drugs or have sex” PERIOD!! Simple good parenting is all. And any parent that let’s a child color outside the box of “NO” will have to live with the consequences of their “progressive or permissive” choice they allowed for their child.

@Buttonstc I agree with Hypocrisy_Central. Sex definitely is not a quiet subject here in the states. As a matter of fact part of the problem is everyone keeps talking about it like its a new disney attraction theme park. Its nothing new. Kids are screwing around because
1. they can with all the new and “progressive” parents.
2. Many homes are single family homes and there is very little to no supervision. (some single parents are great but for the most part its hard to watch your children and be at work at the same time).
3.Their hormones are raging.
4. Many in European countries still marry quite young. Where in the states the youngest one can marry is 16 with consent.
I don’t think you can blame it on groups that speak of abstinence. My brother had plenty of rubbers and still he got his girlfriend pregnant 3 times. No matter how many rubbers you pass out its still up to the user to use them and do it correctly. There will always be guys who say they want to do it naturally, there will always be girls who can’t keep up with the regime of taking their pills daily. I don’t see how allowing them to have sex any time in your home is going to lower their chances of getting pregnant or worse.
I know in Japan they don’t have the problem of under age sex and sex is prevalent every where, even in their anime. Of course they are kept busy all day in school, come home for supper and then off to more classes to be more competitive. On days off there are other events they attend that also keep them busy. Barely having any time to relax, they usually just avoid sex till they are a bit older. Having a child before you are financially responsible is frowned upon. In the 2 years I lived their, I did not see 1 unwed mother or teenage parent. I’m sure they existed but was a very rare thing..
Our kids simply have too much free time on their hands.

Traditional parent “I don’t care if you’re watching a movie. If you’re not home by 12:00, you’re grounded!”
Progressive parent “Call me if you’re going to be later than 12:30. I expect you to come home as soon as the movie ends.”
Permissive parent “So what time did you get home last night?”

What is this “I can’t stop them” shit? These kids ain’t runnin’ Nothin’! Not only is it not “cool”, it’s enabling, ridiculous, and the kids will have NO respect for them.
“I can’t stop them”. My ass.

@Trillian

Exactly. You are very close to wisdom, grasshopper! : ))

@Cruiser “the number one job of being a parent is teaching your child all about the word no!! From “no you can’t have that”! to “NO don’t drink, do drugs or have sex” PERIOD!!” Sadly to say a lot of parents are not going for that. As @DominicX alludes to “Well, many of those things kids will do whether or not you try to stop it.” So they toss their hands up and say basically if you cant beat them join or at least control the damage.

I can see why teens would try to do that stuff anyhow because mostly it is not them who will get the hammer dropped on them. It has been pointed out it is more illegal for the person who provided the booze to the party or allowed the booze to be served than the kids who actually drank it. The kid who boozed it up might get a slap on the wrist and some community service if that much. If a kid thought getting smashed would prevent them from obtaining a drivers’ license until they were 31 years old I bet you would see teen drinking drop by 80%; yest there will still be some stupid kids who figure they can go drink way out in the back 40 and not get caught,

Right now sex and boozing is presented as the greatest roller coaster ride since Spiderman or the Colossus etc. ala @Pandora. Have a bad day, get a drink; stressed, get a drink; want to relax have a drink; liven up the party get some booze. And sex is worse, get this gum you get the girl = sex; wear this after shave you get the girl = sex; wear this lipstick you wow the hunk = sex, don’t get your grilled cheese off the kids’ menu you will turn off the cute girl and miss the sex. Sex is made out as the must do goal of each day. And the adults are telling the kids “WOW Sparky was that ever a ride, you should try it one day but you have to be this tall” and when the kid comes back 2 minutes later with cardboard stuffed in his shoes to make up the extra inch the ride operator knows he is not tall enough but lets him by with a wink and nod. There is no downside really not as @Pandora said of Japan. Here people are all hat but no cattle when it comes to saying “sex at your age is a bad ideal”. Maybe if these kids thought that if they had a out of wedlock underage baby they would owe $25,000 that would be deducted form any earnings they made after 18 until they paid it off after the 1st 2,000 thick skulled teens got slapped with the fine I bet the rest would seriously think; some would be stupid and still try to get a way but many would see it as not worth it.

That’s just it, though. In the US, sex is either this dirty thing we shouldn’t talk about, or the pinnacle of human achievement.

Sex is a biological urge to procreate. That is all. Period.

Maybe if more parents would explain this simple fact to their kids, and treat sex, their genitals, and the entire process as the natural thing that it is, we wouldn’t have these problems.

I don’t think either of those fit the examples given. I’d say it’s fear and not having the tools do address or want to take the time to address those situations that aren’t ideal but pretty common. To me, being permissive isn’t an excuse for irresponsibility, turning a blind eye or picking the least of evils.

Half my family is Italian, some 1st generation. Wine was always available and no big deal. None of us are alcoholic or abuse drugs. There is no “forbidden mistery”.

The other stuff you mention is just plain wrong, illegal, and, in my opinion, just plain stupid.
A parent that does drugs with their kids is no real parent. Providing condoms for underage kids and allowing them to have sex in your home is child abuse. The kids need to be removed from your home, you need jail time and placed on the sexual offender warning list.

@Ron_C

Yeah, you should go to prison for providing condoms. I don’t think there is a worse crime.

I’m sorry, but that’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. Do you not know that in many places (such as Nevada, most of the East Coast states, etc.), the age of consent is 16?

@DominicX It’s not the condoms that are the problem is the fact that you are encouraging kids to have sex. I have two daughters and know the pressures they faced. Fortunately, they grew up to be excellent professionals, wives, and mothers. Granted I’m not the best of fathers but kids need boundaries and standards. Not providing them will damage the kids for a long time, possibly their entire lives.

I am progressive and so are my kids but I had rules, they had rules, that is what makes us civilized.

@DominicX [tossing a flame retardant cloak on him] pssssst you can’t mention that or the fact that the age of concent world wide is around an average 15 years and 2 months. With so much talk of the bogie man in a dirty rain coat outside every school yard many nations [and or states] might get the lable of “perv nations” Too much true info will get you a flaming arrow in the back; just a warning buddy :-)

I’m with @Buttonstc on this one – I wouldn’t drink or smoke weed with my kids as I don’t do either (any longer) and those experiences are in the past. If my kid is around 17, 18…has their own room and wants to use their room to be with their gf or bf who are also of the same age and no one is at home…I don’t see how that as a problem…I would let the parent of my child’s partner know (if they asked or a situation arose) that yes, I trust my child to be left with his gf or bf on their own and if they, in turn, aren’t okay with their child doing this, then they should forbid it. We are each responsible for our own children. As for condoms, yes they will be available in the house as will be sex education, talks on STDs, pregnancies, etc.

Moderation is key. Setting boundaries is important, but so is allowing freedom. Always care about your kids. Aim for a balanced strategy. That’s progress and therefore progressive. Everything else is outdated.

Psychologists know that the extremes of the past don’t work, i.e. neither too strict and too lax. See also

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parenting_styles

@mattbrowne that is a good way to look at the situation. I believe that the solution of almost all problems lies between the extremes. On the other hand, the extremes are almost universally wrong.

@Hypocrisy_Central

Sometimes kids will find a way to do what they want. Any realist would know that. That doesn’t in any way mean….We should ignore kids behaviours and do nothing about them.

But, sometimes controlling the damage to make sure it is the least possible. Is the best thing a person can do. Not an Ideal. But it’s one of the least evils….and the least evils, sometimes are our only choices.

So we shouldn’t stick to one thing about parenting and ignore the rest. Being strict and controlling doesn’t make you a good parent, if you’re not as friendly and as kind to your kid, as you expect from your kid to be to you, as well.

Also we need to Remember what we needed as kids from our parents, Not only what they could afford to give us. Why are we forgetting that?