Social Question

jerv's avatar

Are the unemployed screwed?

Asked by jerv (28580 points ) June 6th, 2010

Many of us know how bad it is to be unemployed.

Companies will not hire the unemployed.

Most of the jobs reported in the last round of unemployment numbers are temporary.

Congress is dragging it’s feet on extending benefits.

And yet, there are many that are convinced that the economy is strong because the top 1% see their incomes soar while banks and brokerage firms hand out huge bonuses, so they figure that those that are not doing well are suffering entirely due to their own mistakes. That anybody who wants a job can get one, and those that lose jobs and don’t have enough in the bank to survive the couple of weeks until they get another job.

To me, it seems like the unemployed are getting screwed every which way. Not only are the unemployed screwed over financially, they are ostracized and belittled as well.

Your thoughts?

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59 Answers

HungryGuy's avatar

Because of modern technology and way of life, there are more people in need of work than there are hours of employment available. This situation has been growing for decades, and the recent recession merely brought it to a head.

The solution is obvious to me: shorten the work-week to 35 hours or even 30 hours, and then employ everyone at less hours per person.

Of course, those who are employed will grumble that this will reduce their income. Well, yeah. It will.

The alternative, eventually, will be vast tracts of homeless people living in cardboard box cities across the land, growing their own food (if the police permit them to—otherwise turning to crime to feed themselves), and creating their own independent economy.

But private companies won’t do this willingly, so government needs to set an examply by reducing the hours of government employees to 30 hours a week (or less).

Silhouette's avatar

Couldn’t agree more. Not only are there no jobs, aid is getting cut. They get less assistance these days. For a family of three they are eligible for $150 in food stamps per month, or almost. BFD! Milk is $1.99 a gallon, cereal is $3.50 a box for the cheap shit, fresh fruit is totally out of their reach. Medical assistance, hardly worth the effort.

jerv's avatar

I forgot to add one other thing; many of those that got federal extensions on their unemployment are now getting bills for “overpayment”. So even when you “do” get a job, chances are that you will owe some state a few thousand dollars.

majorrich's avatar

A lot of guys that got laid off were also the more experienced and higher paid employees. Old + Overqualified = Screwed

jrpowell's avatar

I think a good chunk of the problem is with these two graphs.

One
Two

JLeslie's avatar

Well, I think the now unemployed working poor, or I will say anyone making under $100K household income who is unemployed is screwed if laid off. (actually I think the working poor are screwed and treated horribly even when they have a job). People who made well over $100K (not including very expensive cities like NY, Los Angeles, etc, or someone who has had a significant tragedy like expensive health costs) who are over the age of 35 should have plenty of money in the bank to make it for a year on unemployment in my opinion. Anyone who is losing their house in 90 days from getting laid off who has been making a more than decent income for years has not too much sympathy from me.

Although, I am appalled that money is flowing in the banks, and other industries and none of it is being seen for the average guy, not even in the form of the banks paying a decent interest rate on savings accounts, and that banks still have not returned tarp money when they can afford to.

I do think jobs are starting to come back. My monster.com alerts have more and more jobs posted and Theladders.com I see higher level stuff gettingmore active also.

jrpowell's avatar

And I was reading that link on huffpost earlier and was thinking that there should be a website for the unemployed to hook up with strangers willing to lie and say that they worked for them.

I would be willing to pretend to Vandelay Industries if someone needed a reference. You could be my #1 latex salesman.

JLeslie's avatar

Oh, one other thing. I actually would love to be a temporary employee, and/or consultant. I don’t mind some trend towards that, as long as we can get health care up and running so that people are still insured when not an employee of a company. I don’t want the whole market place to turn into temporary workers, but a nice balance of it, more options would be great.

Dog's avatar

We had a Trader Joe’s move in… there were over 500 applicants.
I have never seen so much competition for just any job. It is discouraging.

jerv's avatar

@JLeslie Last I checked, only about 10% of the US earned over $100k/year. Like the distribution of wealth, the income distribution here is an L-curve.

@Dog When my wife tried applying to some places posted on Craigslist, they replied that they stopped taking resumes within a couple of hours of posting since they already had hundreds of applicants in that short a time!

JLeslie's avatar

@jerv I don’t know the stat, so I will take your word for it. Doesn’t really change my answer. I have empathy for anyone who works hard, does all of the right things, and then finds themselves in a difficult spot that is basically out of their control. I for the most part agree with your assessment that that the top 1% maybe even 10% are no real indication of how people struggle to make ends meet. I am in that 10% you mention, and when I hear my peers complain, but know they spend their money on ridiculous crap and don’t save anything, their cockiness is disgusting. The recession made some things better for people like me if you were not heavily invested in bad real estate or stocks. Some prices have come down quite a bit, so day to day living is less expensive in the last couple of years, and if someone does choose to invest numbers are much better for owning property and renting it out, the cash flow is better.

The top 10%, or maybe it is just the top 5% is making it hard for the average guy to afford anything. So it is not just the unemployed, I think the employed are having it rough to. This incredible discrepency between the rich and the poor is bad for the country, as the middle class thins it will have a profound affect on how we live.

I have wondered how many of the foreclosures were second or investment properties, and another question what percentage of foreclosures are people who make over $100K? I am not asking you to answer the question, just was wondering out loud.

jerv's avatar

@JLeslie Suffice it to say, I think that a lot of people don’t know the numbers. Sadly, many of them do not care so long as they are doing well.
As for prices coming down…. only on property and stocks. I pay more for gas and groceries than I did a couple of years ago yet have a lower household income. WA state keeps raising taxes in ridiculous ways.

Tenpinmaster's avatar

The people that I know who got fired from my place of employment are getting jobs relatively quickly. I guess it really depends on your geographical area, your employment background, and your willingness to work. But I know there are areas under extreme unemployment and I am sure that those areas make it almost impossible to find another job within a reasonable period of time.

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

They made a big mistake bailing out those banks… twice? thrice? With play money?

As I understand it (perhaps I’m wrong) but that same play money would have turned into approx $40,000 (or more) per US adult if the gov had just given it to the people instead.

What would that have done for the economy?

Cash for Clunkers? What a joke… That only helped those with good credit already. Housing Tax Credit? What a joke… And that’s on top of the bailout money.

Guess who’s paying for that crap. And where are the lasting jobs that are supposedly going to come from it? How will my children ever forgive me for making them pay all this off?

Tenpinmaster's avatar

I think the biggest problem is the underemployment issue. People are not finding FULL TIME work but part time or temporary work is relatively available in a lot of areas. Meaningful, full time work is a serious problem because people cannot afford to live on part time salaries.

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

The talent pool is very high right now. As an employer I can be very selective on getting the right person for the job.

I just put an ad on Craigslist for a photographer. I had nearly 200 answers. And half of my competitors are going out of business.

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

Face it. America doesn’t produce nearly as much as we used to. Manufacturing jobs are replaced by cheap foreign labor. No news here, I’m sure you all know this. America sells nothing more than ideas now. And not every citizen has a good idea for sale.

I just heard that KC is investing millions of dollars to create jobs for the most needy teenage youth. The idea is designed to alleviate the projected crime rates that a summer filled with out of work teenage boys would manifest. They’re investing in creating a bunch of shit jobs to keep the teens occupied and to prevent rising the crime rates.

Danger Will Robinson!... Danger!

HungryGuy's avatar

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies – It’s not just America. It’s the whole world. The reason that people are finding only part-time work is because of what I explained in my original answer. There just ain’t enough hours of available work to go around for everyone to be employed full time. That’s the problem right there. The recession and the bank bailouts and the ridiculuous CEO salaries just forced the problem to the forefront.

Tobotron's avatar

I’ld say it also doesn’t help that we expect so much from life and by so much I mean consumerist items, I’m only in my mid 20’s but when I see those in their late teens they’ve got the contract blackberry, the new car waiting from mummy and daddy, or there just about managing to run their own car.
There in their overdraft before University even started, I didn’t even have that option or half those things even a few years ago and nor did anyone else and it was normal.

Our culture is producing a society of want and expectation and I’m not minding so much not having these things in abundance, it sets you free and teaches you to only take what you need and a little for leisure too of course.

But job quality is the problem I feel, a job that you were trained for and studies for is what’s causing a lot of people to feel like wasted talent, its defiantly set me back career wise at least 2 years! And to be honest I blame those in their 30–50’s for all this, my generation didn’t have anything to do with creating this mess but were all paying for it and that’s what makes me mad!

jerv's avatar

@Tobotron I am a trained/experienced machinist, and the Navy taught me to be an electrician, but for over a year, I couldn’t even get a job stocking shelves, moving furniture, or asking people, “Do you want to Super-size that?”!
And don’t’ blame me for this mess just because I’m 36 either. While it’s true that you and your generation didn’t make the mess, I think it safe to say that the same is true of the majority of my generation as well.
Personally, I blame the rich that wanted to get richer and didn’t care who got hurt in the process, and you have those across the age spectrum.

Tobotron's avatar

@jerv yes your right I should have specified those in control not the general populus of those age ranges I specified however I am sure if my generation had the chance we would have messed things up to…

I am totally with you with the diss-apreciation of skills, I graduated with a good degree and about a years experience teaching English out in Russia, I only just by good timing got a decent part-time post with the Ministry of Defense but find myself loosing out to those people with parents with contacts in the right places while I’m looking to move into my preferred career path. Often they have no idea what there doing when they sit at their desk/work space but there there none the less because of the tit for tat job market that’s operating at the moment.

At the moment I’m just getting by like alot of people, its not what I expected from life that’s for sure…

jerv's avatar

@Tobotron Now, more than ever, it’s all about connections. My primary trade (machinist) is tough to get a job in nowadays, especially where I live; after Boeing’s massive lay-offs, I found myself competing against people with 10–30 years experience compared to my 5, thus allowing employers to pick from dozens of people more qualified than I am.
The only reason I am in a machine shop right now is that my employer, who originally hired me for menial work, decided that it was easier and cheaper to transfer personnel from a department that slowed down to one that suddenly got busy than to hire another machinist. (Doubly so since I only get $10/hr for work (normal wage for a person in the Finishing department) that normally pays $15+ to start at entry-level and closer to $20 for someone of my experience level.)

If only the economy were good enough and the tax laws friendly enough to small business to make it worth my while to start my own company… but alas, who is buying, and how do I get the capital to even begin? Can’t get a good job. Can’t make our own jobs. Can’t live of the government. How are Americans supposed to live these days?

Then again, it has been a while since a major empire collapsed, so I suppose that the world is long overdue to see a major super-power topple and fade into the history books.

ItsAHabit's avatar

The world does not owe anyone a job. People tend to ask for jobs to be given to them rather than making themselves a job. Wanting a job, that’s what I did.

jerv's avatar

@ItsAHabit Are you saying that the unemployed do not want jobs? Or are you saying that wanting one bad enough enough will make one open up? Or are you saying that it’s relatively easy to work for yourself and have a sustainable income?

Now, I do not expect one to be given to me, but you have to admit that the labor market right now heavily favors employers. There are more workers than work that needs to be done, As for self-employment, it’s about the same situation; the market is saturated for the skills that most people have. And what of start-up costs? Do you have a lathe and mill and a place to put them so that I can start a machine shop of my own? How about the tools required to start my own auto repair business? Or do I require retraining, in which case, who is going to pay for school? Starting a business isn’t as easy as some people like you, apparently seem to think either.

It takes more than wanting to make stuff happen. Sometimes trying isn’t enough either; I sent out enough resumes, made enough cold-calls, etcetera to prove that. If you were correct then we would all be rich… unless you are saying that everybody is fat, dumb, and lazy. THe only logical conclusion then is that you are incorrect.

the100thmonkey's avatar

Ayn Rand has a LOT to answer for.

Seriously.

Keysha's avatar

Current unemployment rate in the USA – 9.7%

Current unemployment rate in my state – 14%

Rate nationally of those that have been unemployed over 8 months – 46%

It has been proven that the longer you are unemployed, the less desirable you appear, as your skills are thought to be stale or outdated.

Number of ‘new jobs’ in May – 441,000

Number of jobs tied to the census (temporary work) – 411,000

Number of jobs needed to keep up with new entrants into the job force per month – 125,000

Number of jobs needed per month to make a significant dent in the unemployment rate – 250,000

Any other questions?

jerv's avatar

One other thing there is that the unemployment figures only count those on unemployment. Those whose benefits ran out are not in those numbers. Most of the estimates I’ve heard put the actual jobless rate closer to 17% about 3–4 months ago.

Keysha's avatar

I know, @jerv . I’m one of them. I’ve been without a job over 3.5 years. Right now, I cannot work, as I am still recovering from my third major surgery in a year and a half, the last two almost exactly 1 month apart.

If and when I can get back into the job market, I will be pretty useless, to most employers. I will have to retrain, which will keep me out of that market even longer. I am truly scared.

YARNLADY's avatar

There is nothing new here. Social scientists have been predicting this situation ever since I studied it in the 1960’s. Nobody paid attention then, and so there is not plan in place for the widespread unemployment and jobs that will never return.

jerv's avatar

@YARNLADY What? There was a problem that was foreseen and nobody took the alarmists seriously until it was too late to prevent disaster?

Sorry, but I ran out of sarcasm so I won;t be posting dozens of examples..

YARNLADY's avatar

@jerv It boggles the mind

JLeslie's avatar

@jerv When everything started to tumble down and get really bad gas came back down to the $2.50 range from being up near $4.00 a gallon, and food had gone way up supposedly because of gas prices. It took almost 2 years for food to start coming down (even though gas was already much less expensive again) but it has. My groceries are back down to where they were 5 years ago.

jerv's avatar

@JLeslie The food must be a regional thing.
As for gas, in the year that I was unemployed, gas went about a dime. In the last 18 months, over a dollar. They are about the same as they were in October 2008.

Sure, there was a spike there that went away, but the base inflation has caused pricces to rise back up.

ItsAHabit's avatar

The unemployment rate consists of those persons who are looking for work. It includes those who are receiving unemployment benefits as well as those no longer receiving them who are looking for employment. It does not include those who are not looking for work.

MissA's avatar

Many people, not just the unemployed, are getting ‘screwed’. It’s not a great time for the middle class.

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

That’s because the middle class are among the unemployed.

jerv's avatar

@ItsAHabit That depends on which numbers you use, since they track it different ways. Now, which number do you want to use?

The official number is the U-3 number, which I have seen from multiple sources does not include those with exhausted benefits. Maybe it used to… As of May 2010, it had dropped to 9.7%. However, the U-6 number was 16.6% and includes the underemployed and those not collecting benefits.

Again, there are “lies, damned lies, and statistics”, and the info you are pulling up doesn’t jibe with the average of the multiple sources I generally check in an attempt to figure out what is really going on. Maybe one of these days we need to compare bibliographies to see how that could be.

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

@HungryGuy

But wait a second. Although there may not be enough hours available to work, the reason for that is because we’re not producing enough product that people want. Not only has the US lost production to foreign manufacturing, but the products that we still do produce are a bunch of crap. Nobody wants to buy American except foreigners looking to get a vibe of Americana exotica… read Levi’s, Harley’s and vintage American muscle cars.

I count the cars in my neighborhood. 90% are foreign. US autos have earned the stigma of lower class. Count the products in your home. How many are made in the US? I own a GE television. My friends laugh at me because they’ve never heard of such a thing. Good thing I never watch it anyway.

If we actually made something that people felt confident in purchasing, there would be plenty of jobs with gobs of overtime hours available to those who would take them. But because we’d still have to compete with the cheap foreign manufacturing labor, it’s a no win unless US workers concede to lowering their living standards to the degree of Mexican, Chinese, and Indian laborers.

HOW UTTERLY FOOLISH that our government didn’t infuse the common man with that bailout money. They could have easily made it mandatory to pay off credit card debt. And the entrepreneur would have flourished creating new contemporary job models.

OR, they should have taken that cash and granted each state the ability to improve their infrastructures. We certainly need that as our country is literally falling apart. New jobs, good jobs, with a fabulous incentive for big business manufacturing to return to the US.

A new business model is the only thing that will save the US economy and create jobs. The old way of doing things is o-v-e-r. The new model will arise, but I fear it will not be developed or accepted for many years to come. Best to cut expenses everywhere we can.

And companies are feeling the pressure too. I just switched my car insurance. 30 years with AllState without a single claim, and they refused to lower my rate. AAA gave me a new policy for less than half the price. And since I never ever use my home phone line, I decided to cancel it, keeping only the DSL. It was an extra $50 per month for a phone that never gets used. Kudos to ATT though. Believe it or not, they actually put me in touch with a customer retention representative who worked it out so that I only paid $10 extra for the phone line. Yep, they knocked off $40 per month just to keep me as a customer.

Everyone is feeling the heat. But there are shortcuts that can be taken which make a difference right now.

JLeslie's avatar

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies Who should be receiving this government money? Everyone who is in debt or foreclosure?

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

Well it’s too late now. But I say they should have taken all that bailout money and dispersed it equally to each American citizen. Something like $40,000 put into everyone’s pocket, rich and poor alike.

Loans would have been paid off, so the banks would have gotten their share. And a new cast of cash rich consumers would have (could have) infused product manufacturing to create jobs to fulfill demand of new purchases. Of course this only works if people would stop using so much credit and buy American products. If we kept buying Chinese, then there would still be no jobs here that made things. We’d just all have a bunch of new “made in China” stickers to throw at each other.

Maybe if we get enough of those stickers together in one place, we could burn them this winter to stay warm.

JLeslie's avatar

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies I disagree. I was not in favor of all of the bailouts and TARP money either, don’t get me wrong. When I take the $700 billion number and divide it by 250million citizens I get $2800 per person. Check my math though. I used 250million as an estimate of people of tax paying age. Your 40,000 is way off unless I am doing something wrong, which is possible because I should be sleeping right now. And, even $40K given to middle class people who love to spend, they will be broke in less than a year. I am all for helping those out of work. I don’t want people who have worked hard and done everything right, who have lost their jobs to lose everything. I also resent giving money away to people who have been completely irresponsible with how they have managed their money. People who took mortgages they could not afford, and bought houses they should not buy, which drove the prices higher. If no one had been buying they would not have sold for such high prices and the housing bubble would not have been so big. Here is a link I found about TARP money http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troubled_Asset_Relief_Program I’ll reas your link tomorrow when I log back on. I am interested in it :).

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

Sure there’s a lot of ways to look at it. Check your math against the $8.5 trillion listed in my link above. The $700 billion was only one of many bailouts.

Tobotron's avatar

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies although it would be nice to empower the citizen that way how does that teach anyone a lesson?! If anything the consequences of bad practice are reward! Currently your right though its the banks that are getting the reward, did they really suffer in any way?!

Europe was also a HUGE buyer of this toxic debt because the US labelled it with a AAA rating which was of course a load of monkey balls, so are you gonna pay some of that bailout to the Europeans too seeing as they were also miss-sold your countries debt?

I think the West is going to have to accept a reduction in the increase in “quality of life” in terms of how much crap we can consume for some years before the tables turn.

And by the time that happens we’ll be out of oil and hitting another wall which is why I think Europe and the US HAS to establish itself as the barons of future tech if its going to rival the huge powers of the East!

jerv's avatar

@Tobotron We made many sacrifices during WWII but somewhere along the line, we got such a sense of entitlement that we are not willing to do the same again. Hell, we wont even ay our damn taxes, so what makes you think that the US is even capable of establishing itself in any sort of leadership position? Well, aside from leading in battle; we are good at bombing and shooting stuff.

JLeslie's avatar

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies Your link does not explain how they come to the 8.5trillion number, unless I missed it. True if you go from 700billion to 8.5 trillion my $2,800 without doing the actual math on a calculator, would be at least $28,000 (just adding a zero) coming closer to your $40,000 per person. But, why should ANYONE be getting a bunch of bailout money, companies or individuals? As you see from my link a lot of the TARP money has not been used, or is being paid back, which makes me feel a little better, even though a lot of bailout money was paid out that should never have been (my husband works for a bank). But, these banks who did not really need it are paying it, or going to pay it back. Most people who talk about giving the money to the people on “main street rather than wall street,” are the same people who are disgusted by the idea of redistributing wealth supposedly, throwing around words like communism and socialism, and that is talking out of both sides of their mouths. I am not accusing you of this, just pointing it out.

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

Well I should have clarified myself from the beginning. I don’t think there should have been any bailout for anyone. But since there was, I wish it would have been used more wisely. I’m just sickened by the continued broker bonuses, among other things. Meanwhile small business and average Joe are struggling to pay taxes under a code so overblown that no one understands the beast in full. Some of that play money should have sprinkled down onto the street level.

And I could care less if I’m labeled a socialist or communist. Labels are for pussies who refuse to acknowledge reality. Our entire society is broken with CEO, Athlete, and Pop Star fantasies. I can’t take my kid to the baseball game for less than $70 without buying him a simple pretzel. Capitalism breeds greed and deception. What would that pro athlete do if he didn’t get his 30 million dollar contract? Would he just sit around the house and say “Nope, I’m not playing till I get my millions”? It’s practically a form of Gawd worship to pay such exorbitant amounts to any human being.

Meanwhile the custodian who cleans up piss and spit gets absolutely nothing for his efforts.

Let the athlete have 10 million and use the rest to elevate the bottom to a degree of satisfactory life experience. Nobody loses here, and society as a whole becomes more stable.

I’ve heard it said, though I cannot confirm, but I’ve heard it said that if all the wealth were distributed equally among every person on the planet, that each person would receive over a million dollars every year. And I must ask myself in truest honesty. Who does society need more, the custodian or the athlete? Which profession benefits society the most, the stay at home mom or the pop star? What type of person would make the best CEO, the one who is in it for greed and enormous bonuses, or the one who was born to lead and would provide that service out of his love for it, regardless of the benefits package.

I’m a photographer. I love being a photographer. I would be a photographer no matter what it paid. I’m not in it for the money. I’m in it because it’s in my blood.

JLeslie's avatar

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies I was not calling you a socialist, I was saying the people who sent around emails tha the government should be giving $40K to each american, or $200K there were all sorts of emails like that are the ones throwing around those labels. Typically, as I said, right wingers were forwarding this information, but it just happens that you sound pretty far to the left, but utilized the same data.

We basically agree, you take it a little more to an extreme than I do, but we agree. I think salaries/earnings should be more even across the population, and greed taken too far hurts people. I am a little more of a Capitalist than you, but I think the lack of integrity in many parts of the business world is a huge problem. Game tickets costing a fortune and catering to business rather than families for these events is annoying. There should be some sort of happy medium, a balance.

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

Yes I know you weren’t calling me that. No problem. Never took offense. And I really don’t take offense if anyone else calls me that either. The only thing I have to offer to the ignorant alarmists that do, is patience, understanding, and a nice hot cup of fresh reality.

Tobotron's avatar

Being a Socialist isn’t being a Communist, my girlfriends from Sweden which until last year had a Socialist government and still has huge Socialist practices, the rich poor gap is very narrow, nearly all museums are free, free health care, great wages for every type of worker, even super market staff earn an average of $20/hr and national debt is insanely low.

Probably made easier by having a small population, not getting involved in any wars, and having a strong industry at home and abroad…

But I digress…

People at the top are not prepared to take a cut to their wages, they benefited in the good times and seem unwilling to as a group commit in any way to a revival. And until they do the rich poor gap is growing by the month and the demographic gets worse.

Some days I feel like were going backward a lot before we ever go forward…

JLeslie's avatar

@Tobotron I don’t know if you were directing that at me, I do realize there is a difference between being socialist and being a communist, but thank you for taking the time to write what you did out. It seems the people who throw the words around don’t seem to know the difference though. I also have people tell me I must be a communist because I am an atheist. Lots of idiots out there.

We are going backwards. I am stunned by what many of the people around me say (I live in the red bible belt) they want to get rid of public schools (this makes me the sickest to my stomach), every man for himself, no taxes, ugh. I tell them they want to live in the third world, there are already countries out there for them to go to, and to please come up with an example of a prosperous industrialized nation that does not have an emphasis on public education. I’m still waiting for an example of that.

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

I thought all Atheists were Communists. They’re NOT? Eegaahhds!

Yes yes, it is unfortunate that the term Socialist is often thrown out as an insult synonymous with Communist. But what they really mean is Nazi! Nazi being, anything that disagrees with them.

Big big dynamic change coming. I shall not minimize it by calling it revolution. That would be an insult. What we need here friends is no mere revolution. What we need here is a complete paradigm shift.

JLeslie's avatar

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies I am assuming you are being sarcastic about using Nazi at anyone or anything that disagrees with them. Or, is that really how they are using Nazi? Is that why when they throw around that word it makes no sense to the rest of us? They have changed the definition.

ItsAHabit's avatar

Prime Minister Thatcher said, ”...and Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They [socialists] always run out of other people’s money. It’s quite a characteristic of them.”

RealEyesRealizeRealLies's avatar

People cast the worst comments upon that which they fear the most. And what people fear the most, is change.

JLeslie's avatar

@ItsAHabit I’m pretty sure even under Thatcher England had socialized medicine. I believe in the 1940’s England expanded health coverage to everyone. But you might want to check my memory. Hence supporting my point that just because a country has some social systems does not make it a socialist country or unable to support the free market and Capitalism. Hell look at BP, I assume it is still British owned and making gobs of money drilling for oil.

ItsAHabit's avatar

Nazism was Nationalsozialismus or National Socialism. Nazis declared support for a form of socialism that is to provide for the nation: economic security, social welfare programs for workers, higher wages, respect for workers’ importance to the nation, and protection from capitalist exploitation. When Hitler assumed power, he took over control of factories but left ownership in private hands.

Tobotron's avatar

@ItsAHabit also Nazi Germany was born of out of a country stricken by poverty, out of this world inflation, general economic breakdown largely due to sanctions imposed on it by those surrounding it.

It did economically prosper under the Nazi government but power corrupts, pretty badly in their case…I think the benefit system was introduced after the war to stave off the anger of the working class in future times of economic hardship. It provides the bare minimum so as to stop the voting in of a far right loonatic or a revolution that could lead to communism.

Communism is ultimately a very great dream that humanity is too greedy and imperfect to achieve.
Socialism mixed with a sprinkling of Capitalism like many of the richest European countries is the best we can get to fairness at the moment.

BP is still British owned but don’t forget other huge companies like Norway’s Statoil also have very big shares at the site BP lost control of recently. I hope BP pays the full brunt of the damage for years to come!

mattbrowne's avatar

Kids with bad parenting are screwed. Adults wanting to do very simple jobs that need no qualifications are screwed.

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