Christians: Do you want to convert Jews, or do you want them to rebuild the temple?

Why Christians profess their love for Jews but don’t have a reason why?

I don’t suppose you need to have a reason to love someone do you?

But as far as your question goes seriously, I don’t think Jewish conversion is very high on the Christian priority list. For in the Bible I believe there is the passage talking about that Jews will also have a heavenly place for them because God had promised to do so, and from what I’ve collected he is not the kind of guy to break promises.

From what I understand, Christians would like to see Jews converted, but it is a low priority compared to people from religions or belief systems less similar to their own.

I don’t want to convert anyone, I want them to convert themselves. Whether that’s converting to Christianity, Islam or just converting to a happier person- that’s up to them.

All I can do is be the best me I can be.

Which sect of Christianity are we talking about here? Fundamentalists? Catholics? Free-Will Baptists? They are all different.

@ChaosCross well, they are not professing to love the Muslims lately. It is not just that we should all love each other.

@gemiwing I have never heard this talk from Catholics. I’m not sure what demonination all of them are. Of the people who have said this to me, one was Methodist, and another Baptist, I’ve heard over the top, eyes glaze over when they talk about how much they LOVE the Jews from probably 5 or 6 people personally. When Bush was up for reelection and some Jewish people I knew were voting for him, they voted for him because they believed he was completely and religiously committed to Israel because of his Christian beliefs that Israel and the Jews were important to the biblical prophecies. My sense is it is the Evangelical born again types who are saying it. When I hear it, I don’t usually quiz the person on their church affiliation.

Probably because they see Islamic fundamentalism as a common threat.

True spiritual practice, ( PRACTICE, not recital ) is loving one another regardless of faith, gender, status, race, creed, age, ability, health, appearance, etc.

Period.

As soon as a ‘religious’ person wants to ‘convert’ another you have already fallen short of ‘Gods’ word…which is love…and love has no conditions.

End of story.

@JLeslie I got quite a chuckle at imagining working a Church Affiliation Quiz into a regular conversation.

Now, for some Christians, they like Jewish people because we have a common religious language. Many Christians don’t realize we have much in common with Islam as well, but that’s another topic. Christians and Jews share more than a few books in common in our holy texts and I suppose, for some, that is a big draw.

Depending on the sect of Christianity that the people we are talking about subscribe to- there are some who feel that Jews are pre-Christians and are included because they brought Jesus to the world. Jesus was a Jew, after all. Most Christians I have known try to love everyone- it’s a major part of our religious beliefs. Some see it differently, of course (yet again another argument to be made there).

Plus- Jews are non-threatening from a very basic standpoint. Jews don’t actively convert people on the same level as fundamentalist Christians, so they don’t have a horse in the race, so to speak. For those who believe in active converting, rewards of jewels on your personal crown in heaven, the Jews are freeing up more people to be converted by not competing.

There are over fifty different types of Christianity in the USA alone, so I’m trying to be as general as I can. For more in-depth answers I would search out how the main twenty feel about Jews as listed on their websites and literature. I wish I could give you a clearer answer, but these are the wide angles.

@Coloma said it all.

I as a roman catholic have no desire to convert anyone to anything. I have no problem with professing love for the people I care about regardless of race, religion, color, sexual orientation, politics or hygiene (ok…. maybe not that last one).

Regardless of what religion you subscribe to (if you do at all) we are all sharing the same planet and have to live with each other one way or another.. why not try to make the best of it and get along?

@Dr_C I think maybe I am not getting my question across well, although I appreciate your answer. Like here is an example. My husband and I are very close with an xboss of his. We are all close friends now. I had met her daughter a few times, and had even helped her with something once. Anyway, we became facebook friends, she is hardcore right wing, very religious Christian. On my facebook note 25 things I wrote 24. I am not religious, but like the history and the traditions of my religion. Which prompted her to ask me my religion. When I told her, now remember we have known each other for 10 years, close friends with her parents, she wrote “I just love love love the Jewish people, I didn’t know you were Jewish…” I just find it odd. If it were more tame like, “oh I have some Jewish friends and I think they are so wonderful,” but she barely knows a Jew I am figuring. If she did, she would have realized I’m Jewish most likely. I just paired her response with what Jews were saying about Bush and Israel, but I think I might have jumped to a wrong conclusion so I thought I would ask the question.

I don’t include the Catholics in this question. I have never met a Catholic who asked what church do I go to within 5 minutes of meeting me, or who has ever tried to imply their way is the only right way and I am screwed in the afterlife.

Are you aware of Messianic Jews, Jews who have converted to the Christian faith? They would feel a real kinship with their Jewish brethren. In the very early days of the church….I mean right after Christ’s death and ascension, the only people being converted were Jews. It was a big deal when the first Gentile sought conversion. There is a natural bond between the Christian and the Jew, as they share so much in common in sacred writings. Now, if a Jew is a just a cultural Jew, they are gonna be unaware of the reason for the close kinship.

I found this http://www.firstthings.com/blogs/firstthoughts/2010/05/27/why-evangelicals-love-the-jews/ which I found interesting. One of the questions below the essay asks why if Jews are so special will God not let them into heaven (I ask this all of the time when I hear Christians say we are supposedly the chosen people) and it seems to me the author is saying we will be let in.

Some Christians love the Jews because they perceive them to be God’s chosen people. And it’s actually much deeper than just believing in the Jewish faith. It’s a bloodline thing. You either god it or you don’t. The next best thing is being a Christian.

Some Christians hate the Jews because they rejected Jesus Christ as the Messiah. The Jews are apparently still waiting for the Messiah, but, as fate would have it, since the Christians already believe that Jesus was the Messiah, they perceive the as yet to come Jewish Messiah as actually being none other than the Anti-Christ. That’s right folks, the Jewish Messiah yet to come is actually the Christian Anti-Christ. The Christians feel as though that will be the start of the 7 year tribulation and signal a final reign of terror known as the Apocalypse… ending in Judgment Day, when at the end of the tribulation, the real Messiah (Jesus Christ) will make his Second Coming and vanquish the false Jewish Messiah to the Bottomless Pit, exposing him as the Anti-Christ. Since the Jews will be followers of the Anti-Christ, they also will be cast away.

Some Christians love the Jews because Jesus was a Jew and also because they are supposedly taught to follow Jesus’ new commandment to love one another.

Some Christians hate the Jews because they are the one’s responsible for killing Jesus.

They’re all fucked if you ask me.

I’m all for converting Jews. The Temple will take care of itself, likely since no evangelistic effort is ever 100% successful
Messianic Jews, incidentally, are an interesting bunch.

Truly @Nullo, you must admit, that no Christian can convert anyone to anything. Don’t you agree? The true Christian should fully acknowledge that only the Holy Spirit can ever affect such a conversion.

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies Certainly, you have a point: real conversions aren’t wrung out of a person by an overzealous evangelist. At the same time, however, we cannot discount the apparent necessity of a messenger.
In an effort to minimize confusion at this late, late hour, I chose to answer the question as it was presented. My natural tendency is to run off on tangents (like this one, about what, in the context of the question, amounts to a technicality) that I wrestle back around, and I simply do not have the energy right now for that kind of roughhousing.

if hating a race or group is racism, than loving a race or group is also racism.

Racism is related to race, ergo, loving a particular “group” of people ( especially if they have no special designation as a “race” ) is not racism. It may be bigotry of some other sort, but not “racism.” One can make an excellent argument for the Jewish people NOT being a race, but rather a religiously-based culture.

As to certain types of Christians “loving” the Jews, I can only point to their having picked up on “God’s Chosen people” thing in the Bible.

@CaptainHarley Well, since many people classify Jews as a race, I would say racism is appropriate. I don’t say we are a race, but many Jews and non-Jews do. In the days of Hitler we were certainly seen as a race. I don’t think any Jew could have said, “but I converted to Christianity,” and Hitler would have cared. Born a Jew you were a Jew in his mind, it had little to do with your current religious belief. Racism, bigotry, it all basically connotes the same. It is understood.

@Nullo Thank you for your answer, you were the only one who really acknowledged the rebuilding the temple part, unless I missed it in someone else’s answer; I was curious if Christians think about it, or if we Jews had built that up in our heads. People seemed to focus on how and why people convert others, and that was not really what I was looking for, but I don’t mind the discussion :). Maybe I worded the question poorly.

Once a Jew always a Jew. They are seen as the chose people. And, God did make a promise to them.

But, the bible says the only way to the father is through the son.
The Jewish faith does not recognizing the Christs existence.

Once a Jew does. They become a Judaic Christian.
Sometimes symbolized with a Jewish Star with a cross in the middle.

@ChazMaz Once a Jew always a Jew. Is that your opinion, or are you stating it as some sort of biblical thing?

Biblical thing. :-)

And I meant Chosen People.

@ChazMaz You know, I have never heard a Jewish person say we are the chosen people.

I have.
From the Jewish point of view. You are a Jew or Gentile.

These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
– Matthew 10

Here Gentiles becomes a synonym for pagan cultures of the period..

@ChazMaz Interesting. Rubs me the wrong way. I read in one book a Rabbi said he felt that it was more accurate to say Jews chose to live by God’s laws. I think since most of the Jewish people I interact with are not very religious, and generally liberal minded, it doesn’t make sense to us to think that Jews are chosen by God, like we are better or something?? Or, what does this chosen thing mean anyway? Chosen why?

That’s right @ChazMaz, and when the Jews rejected Christ, that’s when the Gentiles were approached.

@RealEyesRealizeRealLies Approached how?

I believe that the Jewish faith is meaning the original tribe.

Basically they got the ball started. They get the honor that comes with it.

Don’t let all the political mumbo jumbo rub you the wrong way.

All will be good in the end.

@JLeslie

Since the good news of salvation had been rejected by the Jews, it was then appropriate to approach the Gentiles and offer that message of salvation to them. But it was offered to the Jews first.

And @ChazMaz is right again. It’s all good… Dunja.

I would love to call myself christian but I am not really, altough I totally do feel that love for the Jew people and is something I can’t explain but it’s there, I always pray for them and ask God to bring peace to the jew people tha is suffering not only in Israel but anywhere in the world and hope that one day they can posses the land that is theirs. God bless you @JLeslie

Uh…Jew here. And inconvertable. But I’m happy to answer any Jewish questions you like.

The whole thing about rebuilding the temple is a fallacy propagated by evangelicals mis- interpretation of Scripture. There is no spiritual significance to Israel or the Jews at all. They are just another race, and equally loved by God as any other.

No one should want anyone to convert from anything to anything. The only exception is wanting for religious fundamentalists to become non-fundamentalists or aggressive atheists to become non-aggressive atheists.

@mattbrowne “or aggressive atheists to become non-aggressive atheists.” What do you mean by this?

@Rarebear I think he means he finds it just as obnoxious for people to be shouting from the roof tops there is no God. Like the people who put up that sign next to the nativity seen in Oregon, or maybe it was Washington, stating there is no God, or when people purposefully get into a religious argument to put down people who are theists (not to be confused with people who want a meaningful religious discussion). That trying to prosthelytize atheism is not better than religious groups doing it, it is the same. But, I can’t answer for him.

@JLeslie So you’re saying that atheists should meekly keep their place and not say anything to upset anybody?

@Rarebear No. Not exactly. I find it is a catch 22. I think atheist would not try to convince people of anything if not for other people trying to push their faith down our throats. But, I do think atheists should be careful not to cross a line. But, then, I think about it more and I see that these other people aren’t going to get it unless we do the same to them, except, I think they still don’t get it honestly. See, I can’t really come to an answer, so I am inclined to act as I would want them to act.

The people who don’t get it will never get it. Putting up a sign next to a nativity scene in a public park, where it actually says things like God does not exist to me is worse than putting up a symbol like a Christmas tree or even the nativity scene. As a young child that scene meant nothing to me, because I knew nothing of Jesus, God, or Mary, it was just part of the decorations. But, young children who can read, can read the atheist sign, and I think it is over the top.

I think it would be great if atheists “came out” in more and more numbers, so people will see just how many atheists there are. So it will be more accepted as common place. I would bet you money that most people I associate with where I live think I believe in God. I live in the bible belt, and I think they assume I do. I don’t usually talk about religion with them, so we never get into a deep discussion on the topic. If they tell me they are planning something at their church or tell me something about a discussion in Sunday school, I listen the same way I would if the class was not in church or if they were organizing any party. They have no idea I am an atheist.

@JLeslie Good answer. Fortunately, I live in the liberal Bay Area so being an atheist isn’t a big deal. But I see your dilemma.

@Nuello said Messianic Jews, incidentally, are an interesting bunch. What is especially interesting are Athiest Jews!...... O! Speakin’ of, hi there @Rarebear! I just sent the link to this before I saw you were here.
Have you ever had any conversations with Christians who were trying to convert you? I can’t imagine what any one of them could say to you. And can you tell us what temple @JLeslie was referring to?

Me personally…..I never really realized it until now, but I have to admit I feel a bit of awe of Jews. Wouldn’t dream of trying to “convert” them (or anyone else for that matter, but especially not a Jew.) I would have a feeling a Jew could just kick my butt with words and “evidence” and logic any day. Don’t get a big head, @Rarebear! I’m not in awe of you!

@Val123 I rarely have conversations with people who are trying to convert me (either out of being Jewish or atheist). The few times that it has happened I just tell them I’m not interested.

What temple is she referring to? Do you know?

@Val123 Can you cut and paste the quote? I can’t find it.

@ChaosCross “For in the Bible I believe there is the passage talking about that Jews will also have a heavenly place for them because God had promised to do so,”. The few times I’ve had this conversation with fundamentalists they told me I would go to Hell if I didn’t accept Jesus.

@Jleslie “When Bush was up for reelection and some Jewish people I knew were voting for him, they voted for him because they believed he was completely and religiously committed to Israel because of his Christian beliefs that Israel and the Jews were important to the biblical prophecies.” There is a misconception among non-Jews that Jews are a one-issue group; it’s all about Israel. While it’s true that many Jews are strongly Zionist, most I know do not vote based upon this issue alone. In fact, most Jews are liberal Democrats. Those that are Republican are that way because their political leanings are that way.

@gemiwing “don’t actively convert people on the same level as fundamentalist Christians,”
Actually, it’s pretty hard to convert to Judaism comparatively. Most rabbis demand study and committment. I could just convert to Chrisianity if I wanted by saying that I accepted Jesus as my lord and savior, get baptized, and leave it at that.

@Plethora “Now, if a Jew is a just a cultural Jew, ” The mere fact you wrote that means that you know very little about what it means to be Jewish.

@Jleslie quoting her friend: she wrote “I just love love love the Jewish people, I didn’t know you were Jewish…” I just find it odd. If it were more tame like, “oh I have some Jewish friends and I think they are so wonderful,”
What your friend doesn’t realize is that’s a bigoted statement in itself.

On the whole chosen people thing: I don’t believe in God, so the whole “chosen people” think is bullshit to me.

Okay. ‘nuff for now.

@Rarebear It was in the question From what I understand the Christians are waiting for the Jews to rebuild the temple, some sort of biblical prophecy.
Also, per your comment above, I KNEW you’d have some good stuff to learn us about! PS…Some of my best friends are…O, nevermind!

@JLeslie Do you know what temple @Val123 is asking about?

@mattbrowne Per basic Christian doctrine, the unsaved will suffer in Hell for all of eternity. Proselytizing is less of an attempt to get people to agree with you, and more like hauling people into a lifeboat.

@Val123 The Temple on the Mount in Jerusalum. Here is a wikepedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Mount with the history, it states some Christians believe that the Temple will be reconstructed before, or concurrent with, the Second Coming of Jesus So some fundamentalists believe when the Jews of Israel rebuild the temple that had been destroyed the second coming of God will happen, I think it has something to do with the end of time. Here is a more Christian oriented link http://www.enotalone.com/article/19212.html

I once read that some Jews reserve the word temple for only this temple in Israel (well it does not exist right now, but they are reserving the word only for that temple once rebult) and so use synagogue to describe other temples.

@Rarebear I agree that most Jews do not vote on one issue, and that most are liberal, but I heard more than one Jew say they liked Bush because of Israel, and they all basically chalked it up to their perception of him being a somewhat fundamentalist Christian. When I would say, “yeah but do you realize those Chistians are waiting for us to rebuild the temple and then when we all die, they still believe the Jews won’t be making into Heaven, they just want to use us for their biblical prophecy.” The Jews would answer, “I don’t care why, let them believe what they want.” Honestly though, I have found many many more Christians who are hard line Israel supporters who don’t think the Palestinians should get anything, compared to most Jews I know who are for a two state solution, and speak of wanting peace and better lives for the Palestinian people. But, I was curious to see what the collective said on the subject. By the way, my dad was a Republican my entire adult life (he is an atheist Jew), until about 3 years ago, Bush cured him of that, my dad has now converted to being a Democrat. Also, Jews tend to be Republicans, but of course they are a small minority of Jews.

@plethora I know what you meant by cultural Jew, but even Jews who are not religious know the story of Jesus and that he was born to a Jewish mother and that the Jews who accepted him as the son of God and his teachings were the early Christians. That we came first (old testament) and then later came Christianity (new testament). If a Jew accepts Jesus as thier savior to me they are Christians. Although I do know there are groups out there like Jews for Jesus, which I will never get, but they can call themselves whatever they want. Do the Christians seem them as Jews or as Christians? Or, I think you mentioned the Messianic Jews, how about them? Would you feel they still need to be converted? And, the Christians seem to still not be letting us Jews in through the gates of Heaven for the most part, @nullo seems to be along this line of thought, so no matter how close a kinship we are, we are not in Heaven for all eternity, no matter how wonderful we are. Do you agree with him? I don’t feel like kin if Christians seem obsessed with Heaven, but then keep me out. I am not asking all of these questions to be argumentative, these are truly questions that pop into my head that I am curious to know, and I prefer to get opinions from several Christians, I don’t want to overgeneralize.

@Nullo – hell is not basic Christian doctrine, it is an invention of the Roman Catholic church, which the majority of the Christian world has followed like sheep. It is not found in the bible, and is a misrepresentation of God.

@Rarebear Exactly. Well, except some Christian faiths require classes and major life changes- it really just depends.

@JLeslie Funny. My dad was a Republican atheist Jew also. But he quit voting Republican when Reagan ran. He was more of a Goldwater conservative.

@Rarebear My last sentence to you on my last post should read Orthodox Jews tend to be Republican.

@Rarebear My father really was an idependent, he voted for both parties, depending on the candidate, but he was generally very in line with the Republicans on fiscal matters back then, and social issues he kind of ignored, so it was not part of his voting decision.

My mom was always a Dem, but she has some issues she is very Republicans on. My parents rarely talked about parties when discussing politics when I was young, they just talked issues.

@Rarebear – My thoughts about aggressive atheists are the same as @JLeslie.‘s And as I said I also resent aggressive believers trying to promote their only true one faith. I think like the people in the liberal Bay Area so being an atheist isn’t a big deal. Most urban regions in Germany are like this.

@Nullo – Jesus reminded us that we make ourselves very unhappy when we hate other people. This reminder saves us from living a miserable life. To me that’s the most important aspect of being saved. I’m a liberal Protestant and none of my ministers have ever used the concept of hell.

I think that other religions and philosophies offer advice saving people from living a miserable life. I don’t believe in one true religion. God has chosen many different ways to reveal himself. I don’t even think that one has to believe in God to be a good person. It’s the code of conduct that matters. And it’s about walking the talk. Stating doctrine as such doesn’t accomplish anything. But finding ethical ways of living is sometimes easier in communities.

Talmudic Judaism and Christianity are sisters and the Hebrew Bible is our common root. Both religions evolve and continue to evolve. Rationalism, critical thinking and spiritual progressiveness are core values to me. But rationality needs to be tied to moral decency. Skepticism is the agent of reason against organized irrationalism. Holding on to superstitions is therefore wrong. Liberal Christianity in a more general sense uses a method of biblical hermeneutics, which is an individualistic method of understanding God through the use of scripture by applying the same modern hermeneutics used to understand any ancient writings.

Prayers are a form of meditation supporting our spiritual growth and finding our strengths. Dogmas arise in a social context and when the context changes, dogmas should change too or even be given up. Rituals are seen as a means to strengthen social groups. Again, Christianity must not claim exclusive rights in defining truth and it is best seen as one world view among many.

This is just great @JLeslie. Apparently the Jews don’t even know about The Temple they’re supposed to build! O, woe is us!

@Val123 Interesting you see it that way. I think it is ironic Christians don’t know LOL. I guess we each see it from our perspectives. Since most Jews I know are not religious, I don’t expect much from them in terms of biblical prophesies.

@JLeslie No, I didn’t know about the Temple! But I’m not the one who was supposed to build it so it’s OK that I didn’t know. Rarebear needs to get to work!!

But, as to your last comment….prophesies don’t come about because people are religious. They come about because that’s the way it’s gonna be. You can’t make them happen. You can’t stop them either. They just are.

@Val123 I mean being aware of the prophesies. People who aren’t very religios don’t tend to know many details of the bible old or new, because we don’t study it. So many Jews are atheists that we are not really worried about the second or first coming of God.

However, I like the idea of building it for historical reasons, but not if it means tearing down another religious place. I have to read up on it. I only glanced at the links I posted. I think there is a plan to build a temple.

@JLeslie Ah. Thanks!

To me being Jewish is to see the world with more than our eyes. To go beyond our little lives lived in selfishness, “they are not all Jews who call themselves Jews” Jesus will soon convince all those Jews who love God of His authenticity and the “nation” will look on Him who they pierced with the same love true Christians have. Blessed be His name.

@jordan777 If that will happen soon, why did Jesus wait 2000 years before convincing all the genuine Jews? When he was here in person, he only managed to convert enough to create a small sect.

@Harold Purgatory is a Catholic invention.
@mattbrowne What you believe to be true does not affect what actually is true.