Is it worse to believe in a God that doesn't exist, or not to believe in a God that does exist?

Not to believe in a God that does exist. Because then he will F*** you up.

“what if your vision, your idea, your God in a Box doesn’t match up with the reality of God if such a being exists?”

I already have that covered. I do not put the face of man on God.

Good old Pascal’s wager…

I guess it depends on whether said God is a punitive asshole or not.

I guess it would depend. If I woke up in an afterlife that’s one big party, I think I’d be able to save my disappoint for something else. If I woke up in a boring or torturous one, then yea, I’d be pretty upset.

Atheists wont be upset to awaken in the Afterlife. They’ll be amazed, happy and thrilled because they’ll think all is ok since they made it. Who knows what happens directly after arriving? We aren’t supposed to know.
It’s better to believe in something that doesn’t exist just in case it does! And I understand what you’re saying about all the nice Atheists out there but…I think we tend to notice them more than the disagreeable ones.
You don’t have to believe in a God to be good; that’s ridiculous. I don’t know how it “feels” to not do so since I’ve been programmed in the opposite direction. Thankfully.

Besides. There is no hell. So even if you don’t believe and there is a God.
All is forgiven, actually that would be a non-issue.

If you believe in a G_d that will welcome all true Christians (as you define it) into heaven and Damn all the rest to some kind of insufferable hell and endless suffering and you find instead some G_d who loves all who tried their best to be righteous and fair and respectful of people of all faiths and no faith at all, you have found your self in less than the expected favour of G_d. Do Pride and Vanity come to mind?

If you believe that only those who believed in and worshipped a G_d just like your particular, very specific and exclusive of all other beliefs kind of G_d and you managed to pass the tough entry examine for your faultless and exemplary life. Then you will spend Eternity with your very small, carefully selected group of people (and if that isn’t Hell, I don’t know what is!) Of course if it was the church done the road and their special version of G_d, then you know that Hell awaits you for your pride and vanity and stupidity for having joined the wrong church!

If you believe in a G_d who loves all who tried their best to be righteous and fair and respectful of people of all faiths and no faith at all, then you will be pleased for all those in your position and for those you left behind. You may be (silently) pleased that the scornful self-righteous who hounded you in life for not drinking their brand of Kool-Aid are apparently absent.

If you believe in no G_d and no afterlife but were a generous, decent, respectful sort of person who helped others, you will be surprised but not greatly alarmed to find there is a G_d who loves all who tried their best to be righteous and fair and respectful of people of all faiths and no faith at all.

Of course if there is nothing at all after death for you then you will never know!

@Aster – “It’s better to believe in something that doesn’t exist just in case it does!”

Seriously? Is it better to believe that a magical unicorn will arrive to solve the worlds problems just in case?

So everyone one would rather keep a false belief than pursue an accurate view of the universe based on the desire to know more about reality?

“than pursue an accurate view of the universe based on the desire to know more about reality”

Don’t know about you. But I call that God. ;-)

My problem with this whole god and afterlife notion is that we have to assume it is dictated and already set up by the god and type of afterlife in question. This is what religion has done to people: We have to assume if there is a god, it is some parental figure that decides what our afterlife will be. It has to be a really awesome place to reward your servitude, or it has to be a bad place to punish you.

It’s just so….......dumb. It does not even matter and the whole idea should be dismissed because it’s all a fantasy that was created in some primitive humans mind.

^ I wish I could give a hundred GA’s. My sentiments exactly.

@Chazmaz – Well with that kind of semantic hokey pokey I guess you must be a pantheist. ;)

An afterlife Does seem preposterous. But , look at it this way:
is it not just as insane to think we grew in a stomach when we never existed then were driving cars later on? oh, come now; grew in someone’s stomach, came out at 11lb or less, then were driving cars? I would think it much more sane that we were grown in a lab.

@Aster -

I’m going to ignore the fact that we don’t grow in stomachs from nothing and assume you meant pregnancy as it actually happens. Considering that I’ve observed the human life cycle many times over and never once been shown any demonstrable evidence for an afterlife, yes it is infinitely more ridiculous to believe in an afterlife. Now if you told me it was no more silly to believe in an afterlife than Thor then I would agree since both have an equal amount of supporting evidence.

@fundevogel _Seriously? Is it better to believe that a magical unicorn will arrive to solve the worlds problems just in case?

No; what book has survived thousands of years having to do with a unicorn? And who said he’d “solve the world’s problems?”

So everyone one would rather keep a false belief than pursue an accurate view of the universe based on the desire to know more about reality?

Many would rather keep their “accurate view.” Why do you call it accurate?? Do you have privileged info?

Well, I had a dad who loved me very much. He gave me everything I needed to grow up healthy and wise. He knew a lot more than I did, because he had been around longer than I, and had been totally dedicated to my well being and providing everything he could to help me do better at life. He tried to teach me everything I needed to know to make the most of the time I had here. He gave me the best university, and an educational plan that was tailored precisely to my learning style and considered all of my strengths and weaknesses, because he knew me well. Sometimes I didn’t understand why he did some of the things he did, but hey, he’s a lot smarter than I am, and I’ll understand too when I have learned more and have a greater perspective. Kind of like how I am with my own kids.. they don’t always get why I do some things, and sometimes they think I’m really mean, but some day they’ll get it.

But hey… I can choose to not pay any attention to what he wanted me to know. I can do it exactly the opposite, I can even pretend that I don’t believe he exists. He loves me so much that if I do that, he’ll forgive me and give me everything in the end anyway. That way I win. I get to act however I want, and still get the goodies in the end. So if he really does exist, and he’s really right about what I should have done to accomplish all of my goals, I will just slide into home base without having to do all of the hard work.

Now I’m at the end, and oh oh… something isn’t so right about my plan. One big problem with that scenario is that I lost some really important things. I forgot that I came here to learn, not just to play and have fun. Fun is good, but it doesn’t help me to progress, and that’s the whole reason I came. I really needed to do the work, study and follow the rules, because without doing that I can’t learn. I made my life a lot harder than it needed to be, didn’t accomplish my goals, and I’m behind the curve at the other end. Since I chose not to learn all I could have learned in the university, I still have it all to learn, and it’s much harder to learn when I’m not in the right environment. AND… I don’t think I made my dad feel very good when I ignored him and didn’t appreciate all he did for me. So now that I remember him, and remember that I really did love him, I really don’t feel so good about ignoring him and treating him crummy. So it’s not such a winning situation as I once thought it was. In fact, I think I kind of blew the whole thing.

@fundevogel —I’m going to ignore the fact that we don’t grow in stomachs from nothing and assume you meant pregnancy as it actually happens.

You “assume” I meant pregnancy and a uterus? You’re not certain??

Considering that I’ve observed the human life cycle many times over..

The human cycle? Well , the human cycle being observed doesn’t seem like it gave you a lot of spiritual beliefs did it. So I suppose that means the trees always turning red and yellow in the fall and the flowers coming back each spring doesn’t affect you either. Well, you’re in good company. A lot of people aren’t moved by that sort of metamorphasis.

and never once been shown any demonstrable evidence for an afterlife,

Most have not been shown any “demonstrable” evidence for an afterlife. Some just know it. They don’t need evidence. And some believe it just because of the trees and flowers coming back as silly as it sounds to you . That’s ok.

@fundevogel Let’s hear your scientific explanation of this one:

http://www.artakiane.com/gallery.html

How is she able to do this? Note her age in each painting. Some art experts say her poetry is even better than her paintings. How do you explain genius in one so young? Please keep it scientific and if at all possible present accuracy in your answer.

So for example, if it turns out that God is actually the Ancient Egyptian Ra, and he’s pissed because you didn’t mummify yourself, or that you’re not buried in a pyramid? I would probably throw up my hands and ask him why he/she/it wasn’t more clear about what we were supposed to believe. I would also want an explanation for the mind-body philosophical dilemma.

God only knows. Given that almost all that has been believed throughout human history is demonstratively false, isn’t belief a peculiar criterion for salvation?

@fundevogel Not going to resolve this today or any other time so I’ll leave you with this message:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQlZv29E4_0&feature=PlayList&p=91B12F773B7E5ADB&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=60

Aster, In response to your last four posts:

@fundevogel “Seriously? Is it better to believe that a magical unicorn will arrive to solve the worlds problems just in case?”

@Aster “No; what book has survived thousands of years having to do with a unicorn? And who said he’d “solve the world’s problems?”

I don’t think you should believe in the unicorn, even if he did have a 1000 year old book. Being 1000’s of years old doesn’t have anything to do with being factual. We don’t think Plato has to be right because his writings are super old or that the Norse god’s exist because the Norse Sagas are still around. If age was the litmus test for credibility it would be undeniable that the world was held up by four elephants standing on the back of turtle.

“Many would rather keep their “accurate view.” Why do you call it accurate?? Do you have privileged info?”

Well accuracy is a characteristic that is determined by evidence and proof. Accuracy cannot be claimed without a standard by which to measure it. I have yet to see any god or the afterlife quantified in any measurable way. Thus a claim that belief in a god or the afterlife is accurate is unsupportable.

“You “assume” I meant pregnancy and a uterus? You’re not certain??”

I was hoping you did, was I wrong? Are you offended that I assumed your inaccuracy was the result of casual language rather than ignorance?

“Well , the human cycle being observed doesn’t seem like it gave you a lot of spiritual beliefs did it. So I suppose that means the trees always turning red and yellow in the fall and the flowers coming back each spring doesn’t affect you either.”

Um, I don’t need things to be magical to appreciate them. Understanding how things work doesn’t make them any less enjoyable. I can actually appreciate thinks more fully when I understand how they work.

“Most have not been shown any “demonstrable” evidence for an afterlife. Some just know it. They don’t need evidence. And some believe it just because of the trees and flowers coming back as silly as it sounds to you . That’s ok.”

I don’t have such a high opinion of myself that I think I can figure out whats right without research, and evidence. I know I am liable to make mistakes and make poor decisions if I don’t take advantage of the evidence available to me.

“Let’s hear your scientific explanation of this one:”

It’s funny that you demand evidence to challenge beliefs for which you have none. Apparently you don’t think your beliefs should require quantifiable evidence but you’ll be damned if someone else can do the same.

“Not going to resolve this today or any other time so I’ll leave you with this message:”

That’s not fair, you closed the discussion before I responded. How can you know we won’t resolve anything unless you’ve already decided my answers don’t matter?

@Aster A little girl with exceptional painting skills does not prove anything except that the brain is very complex…...You are making quite a leap with that reasoning, which means there’s a gap. People come out of the womb mentally retarded, attached to another person, missing a finger etc. The formation of the brain is another complex process, of course good and bad things will happen during that process because of the myriad possibilities. It’s just the complexity of the formation of a human body in the embryo.

So, would I rather be insane or wrong?

I’ll take “wrong” any day.

In how many different ways can you recite Pascal’s Wager?

@Ivan This isn’t just a naked formulation of Pascal’s Wager. In Pascal’s wager, Pascal presumes there’s only 1 God, here the question is what if it turns out that the God you believed in was in fact the wrong one. For Atheists though, it pretty much amounts to Pascal’s wager.

@gorillapaws, yup.

It all depends on the God, doesn’t it? If you believe in a God that tells you to kill people, then it seems to me that believing in a God that doesn’t exist is much worse than not believing in one that does.

I’ve always thought that the binary nature of Pascals’ Wager was it’s weakness and pretty much assumed that just about everybody was wrong about God anyways. I feel relatively safe as an Agnostic. I do not refute the existence of any higher power, only Man’s ability to comprehend it. The way I see it, any being(s) that can bend/break the laws of science as we know them and create something (the Universe) out of literally nothing probably has other traits that we mere mortals cannot wrap our minds around.

If there is an afterlife, I will enter it with no preconceptions. I’d be pissed if I actually did deny myself pleasure in this life for the sake of adhering to a religion only to find that I was wrong and was judged harshly as a result, and if there isn’t an afterlife then I defer to Dr. Gregory House:

* Cameron: “You find it more comforting to believe that this is it?”
* House: “I find it more comforting to believe that [life] isn’t simply a test.”

I think the only situation in which this matters depends on the environment in which you live, that is, what are the reverberations in certain societies for believing, or not believing in God, or how you believe, or what you say, or whatever. As for eternal consequences, well, as was once said, let them kill each other, and God will sort that shit out. I’d be pretty arrogant to think that I could do anything against the final judgment, and if I don’t believe in God, it’s just a waste of time.

Belief in itself is irrelevant – it’s how it affects others around you that I give two craps about. I don’t worry about being an Atheist, I know what kind of a person I am and have no fear that no matter the afterlife, I’ll be fine.

If it makes you lose faith in humanity and living a good life, then I guess…neither.