Zeitgeist The Movie: Legit or Not?

Not.
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4196

@Rarebear Is this website legit? There are a lot of great topics on here and I am just being skeptical of the skeptic lol.

There’s a movement founded by the guy who made the movies: www.thezeitgeistmovement.com. It doesn’t accept donations or anything like that. There’s no religious or especially spiritual talk on the site. If this isn’t a legitimate cause, or at least an honest cause, there’s some creepy motives behind it.

It seems like the movies are made to seem like separate entities from the actual movement. That might say something about their legitimacy.

edit: here’s the official website for the movies: http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/. Below each is a link to download a source guide pdf.. You should read through one of them, see what you think.

I’m no expert on religion or astrology by any means but some of that sounds like some sly slips of the tongue to me and some purposefully left out to give closer ties than what there actually are. I haven’t finished the film as I’m about to go to bed but there are a few false “facts” I’d like to point out that came up when comparing Jesus to Horus.

First, Horus was the Sky god… Not the sun god. The Egyptians didn’t just claim him as the god of that area either… He literally was the sky. The sky was Horus. Because of this, he was also know to be the sun and the moon. Called them his eyes in fact. Jesus was just known to be a man. Flesh and blood like everyone else. That’s a pretty big difference that I feel they left out.

Second, Isis, Horus’ mother, was impregnated by Osiris’ golden phallus after Set, the god of the desert and darkness and chaos, killed him, dismembered his body and gave it back to Isis. He gave everything back except the penis and that’s because he threw it into the river where a catfish ate it. Isis used a spell to retrieve it and turn it into gold which she then used to impregnate herself so it wasn’t really much of a “virgin” birth. Isis is Horus’ mother/sister thing. Isis and a few other Egyptian gods and goddess had some real fucked up relationships. No matter how you slice it though, Horus was born of two gods whereas Jesus Christ was only born from one god and one normal human lady.

I’m going to go ahead and start wrapping up because I’m tired but Horus, as far as I can recall, Horus was never killed and resurrected. Osiris was but Horus was not. Osiris was the god of the dead, of the underworld. I can go into the story but you’ll have to look it up yourself because again, I’m tired.

There are many religious stories that follow patters of previous stories but it seems to me that the artist, who made this film, is pretty much just dissecting many of the stories and taking what he wants from each and pasting them together with some fancy lingo and diagrams to make the puzzle fit. Again, I’m not finished with it but that’s my take on it after being about half an hour in.

As of now, I say, NOT LEGIT.

@Randy You should read the source guide. I don’t now if its arguments can stand up to yours, but it does address the specific issues you brought up, or at least the one about Horus being a sun god.

@zophu After I finish the film, I’ll thumb through it and see if anything catches my attention. I had a few more smaller things with what I’ve seen so far but I’m going to hold on to them for now.

I feel the need to add that I’m currently not biased toward Jesus or any other religious figure so don’t think that I’m favoring one side or another in my ramblings. I just find the stories interesting as well as the thought of religion itself. Especially with it being so big like was mentioned in the beginning of the film.

I should add that I sympathize heavily with what appears to be the Zeitgeist Movement’s ideology. I’ve got some pretty big problems with a lot of the specifics and I’m not qualified to legitimize the claims, but the general drive is great. To me, it’s about demanding—actively working for, as a people—efficiency in technology, specifically in the allocation of world resources.

I wasn’t won over by either of the main Zeitgeist movies, but by this presentation: http://vimeo.com/7857584 I think. Like I implied before, even if this isn’t worth pursuing as it is, there are some very good ideologies behind it. It looks like there is pretty much just one guy putting it all together, so I wouldn’t be surprised if there are some fatal flaws.

@Randy Alright. I didn’t mean to keep you up.

I was under the impression that the films were some sort of conspiracy theories.

@augustlan They have conspiracy theories in them, but the movement distances itself from that, I think. Obsessive conspiracy theorists are attracted to the movement, like they are attracted to all other alternative world-views presented on the internet; but from what I can tell the few times I’ve read through their forums, most hardcore conspiracy theorists are criticized for their paranoid assumptions. Watch the presentation I linked in my last post. It’s very interesting, regardless of whether you agree with it or not, and I don’t think there are any specific conspiracy theories in it.

No. Their empirical data for the section on religion is for the most part incorrect. The conclusions they draw from that data is therefore faulty. (as @Randy mentions the info Egyptian gods was way off – anyone who has watched Stargate knows Ra was the sun god). On that basis the data for the other sections is likely to be just as wrong.

@Blackberry The website is legit and is fantastic. This is Brian Dunning and he is a leader in the skepticism movement. He has a weekly podcast called “Skeptoid.”

The thing with conspiracy theorists is that they always want you to question whoever they are against but they don’t want you to question them. I’ll admit, Peter Joseph is good. He’s got quite the silver tongue. I just can’t buy into it. It all seems like bull shit to me. Other than the religion part, I’m not very educated in in what the film is about but I found myself scoffing about how unbelievable some of the information was. After the 9/11 ordeal, I said “By the end of this film, I bet the United States government is compared to Nazi Germany”. I was right. The film seems to me to just be anti-government propaganda. It seems ridiculous enough to me that I don’t even want to waste my time picking it apart piece by piece.

@zophu I’m thumbing through that source guide right now to see if there is anything that shakes up some of my arguments against the “facts”.

This is the actual synopsis of the Zeitgeist Movement’s “understanding”. it’s only a few short paragraphs long: http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=19&Itemid=54

Like I said, that movie and the other, “Zeitgeist Addendum,” is not what won me over to what ideology I’ve adopted from the Zeitgeist Movement. The movies seem sloppy, especially the first one, but they were done by one guy. Unless you start theorizing about a secret organization behind the films, (which would make you a despicable conspiracy theorist and not a rational skeptic that gets to wear the awesome skeptic’s hat that all true skeptics-not-conspiracy-theorists get to wear,) you can look beyond the conspiracy theories the poor paranoid fool has come up with, because even if you don’t swallow any of what is claimed, important questions are brought to mind. The films are artistic, as much as they speak about history, politics, science, etc.. Take them in as such.

I encourage again, for you to watch this presentation on Vimeo, where Peter Joseph doesn’t make any specific conspiracy claims and focuses on the tendencies for the current institutions to cause problems for society. He’s very confident and can come across as pretentious, but try to listen to what’s being said. He says so much, even if he’s wrong somewhere, it gives you no excuse to ignore him all-together—at least analyze the lies so that you can better defend others against them, if that’s the case.

It’s wise to be skeptical of anyone who uses the title of “skeptic” to justify the blowing-off someone’s entire voice when they are doing their best to share their views. My point is, this Peter Joseph is trying to help the world in his own way. One would have to be a pretty creative conspiracy theorist themselves to believe there’s nothing of value in the movement’s principles because the films somehow “imply that there are agendas of foolish evil hidden within!”.

‘While the word “Zeitgeist” is also associated with Peter Joseph’s films, “Zeitgeist: The Movie” and “Zeitgeist: Addendum”, the film series based content isn’t to be confused with the tenets of “The Zeitgeist Movement” here. Rather, the films were inspirations for “The Zeitgeist Movement” due to their popularity and overall message of seeking truth, peace and sustainability in society.’ (continue reading)

I also encourage people to compare their understanding of “conspiracy theory” with their understanding of “stigmatization.” You might lose your cozy skeptic’s hat, but I think it’s worth it. The link right above speaks more about the taboo of “conspiracy theory,” I just realized. It’s worth reading more than what I quoted.

Also, if I’ve been duped by this Zeitgeist thing, help me see what is so intrinsically wrong about it.

@zophu Well said.