I'd like you to share your thoughts on Sarah Palin's speech last night.

Let her have her bounce. I have a feeling that her very own Troopergate scandal and some of her other positions will deflate any early popularity except with the far right.

Marina,

I have no problem w/ them getting a bounce…convention bounces disappear in 2 to 3 weeks anyway. I’m just wondering if it was as bitter, nasty and mean spirited as I took it to be (or if I’m too biased to see it for what it was), and if I’m right about how nasty and mean spirited it was if that will sit well with independents or if it might actually work against them.

I thought she sounded really robotic. I didn’t like her delivery at all. I was shocked to hear on the news and see online that everyone thought it was great. But what do I know?

1) being pretty doesn’t mean you’re a good VP.
2) having spirit doesn’t mean you’re a good VP.
3) Having a son in the miltary doesn’t make you a good VP.
4) Having a baby with Down Syndrome doesn’t make you a good VP.

The big thing with the Republicans is Obama’s lack of experience. Hello? This woman was a MAYOR of a small town in Alaska, and while she was there, she championed the proposition to remove Alaska from the United States. Obama had, what, 8 years in the Senate?

Anyone who votes for McCain because of her has no business in a voting booth. How are you supposed to be trusted with a vote to change the fabric of the United States if you don’t even pay attention to the important issues, which do not include this woman’s family?

Yes, some of it was. Sadly, there is so much polarization in our country, people who have aligned themselves with the Republicans will not even register that. Maybe some independents will.

I watched it as well…though I too am biased, so of course I saw it the same way you saw it….I really feel as though she droned on and on about how Obama isn’t ready, and then she would go back to talking about her family, and then end the statment with “United States of America!!!” and would get a lot of cheering.

I did however mute it for a moment, and thought he had a hot bod.

I was just reading countless comments on a somewhat left leaning blog that tracks election projections, saying that they’ve just donated another $50—$100 to Obama’s campaign…one said they maxed out one of their cards, another said they gave the max allowable, and about 10 people said they volunteered to do phone banks. I think the speech was a HUGE success for Dems. But I still am only hearing left and right opinions, makes me wonder if there’s even going to BE a middle this year.

I found her speech to be shockingly negative, as you said, toward us democrats. While the Obama campaign seems to be focusing on the issues and things that politics are actually about, the Republicans have apparently moved on from such logical tactics and are content with a convention of Dem-bashing.

This letter by someone who knows her is well worth a read, for more insight into her time as a Mayor in Alaska (and just how much she sucked at it). It seems like it’s genuine, and makes for a good narrative on where she’s come from…

Too much dem bashing, enough about her family and her god and not enough said about the real issues.
It appeared to me that the bush speech writers told her what to say.
On the other hand, she is probably a great soccer mom.

Yes, full of hate. The bit about Obama saying one thing in Scranton, and another in San Francisco really chaps my be-hind. I’m sure there are plenty of examples of McCain “playing to his audience” but when they say San Francisco specifically, they mean gay. And everyong cheering so loudly in that arena knows they mean gay. And to me, personally, it sounds like a huge roar of hate.

She is, however, an impressive performer. She has a real natural understanding of cadence and how to turn a phrase. That also scares me.

@basp you mean hockey mom

I still need to digest her speech, but what does it say when the main purpose of the night was to introduce Palin to America and yet Giuliani goes so far over on time that they are forced to skip the introductory video of her that they produced to precede her walking out and delivering her speech and lose some of her prime time audience by making her end late? I’m guessing that Guiliani was playing spotlight hog.

breedmitch,

Did you see the Daily Show last night. Stewart nailed the Republican hypocrisy gambit. He first showed Karl Rove about a month ago talking about Tim Kaine, and how bad it would be for Obama if he picked Kaine as a running mate, because Kaine has only been Governor for 3 years, of a small state, and mayor before that, of only the 105th largest municipality in the country with only 200k people. That was of course after he played the clip of Rove talking about Palin having so much executive experience as a 2 year Governor of Alaska and a mayor of the 2nd largest city in the entire state (which I don’t even think is true btw).

He also played Dick Morris decrying media sexism, then played clips of him making obscenely sexist remarks about Hillary Clinton a few months ago.

Oh, and the night before on the Daily Show, since the topic is Republican vitriol, here’s one more reason I just think the Republican base is comprised of bitter, hateful people. They asked this guy on the street in front of the Xcel Center if he was excited for the Convention and he said, “I was really excited until they decided to cancel it to placate the liberal media.”. So the commentator asked him if he was upset about that, and he said,“I just don’t understand why it is that all of a sudden we can’t tell the truth about Barack Obama cuz some people are getting rained on.” With a sarcastic emphasis on “rained on” as if that’s all a hurricane was…just some people getting rained on.

9ui11iani was definitely playing spotlight hog, no question. I sure hope Obama/Biden take them to task for mocking community service, I just can’t imagine that playing well with anyone other than a bitter, partisan Republican.

@RandomMrdan: Yeah the hockey mom thing scares me too. Sounds too much like a Disney, straight to video movie.
@dalepertie: Of course I saw it. I told you, we were separated at birth.

The fact that the voices of the Right have to so through (what Stewart called) “verbal gymnastics” to rationalize this choice of candadite only reinforces what I have always felt: They don’t actually believe in anything. The only goal is to get elected so they can further their own wealth. Public service doesn’t enter the equation.

I don’t think I’ve laughed that hard in at least a month.

Had to love the bit about the Minneapolis airport bathroom. “How long do the memories last?”

Dale;
You might get a more right leaning view if you ask the question on askville.

Why is everyone comparing the republican vp candidate to the democratic presidential candidate?

@ critter, I suppose it’s because it won’t be too long before McCain croaks. He’s what like 72?

I’m confused on why people believe Obama has enough experience to be President when as a Senator he never held a single hearing? He also oversaw $100KK in grants which continually failed to go to education. His only other experience which makes him at all qualified is his experience running for President. Which could have made me just as qualified (if I was rich).

Judi,

I’m done with Askville. And I pretty much already have the right leaning view on it. It’s called Palinguage. It’s where if the Democrats do something it’s very, very bad, but if the Republicans do the same thing it’s very very good:

http://www.thatminoritything.com/?p=53193

Notice my post on here.

@critter1982 – Palin set herself up for comparisons to Obama, or rather the party set her up for them. McCain spent the last 6 months building the case that Obama was too inexperienced, and an empty suit celebrity. Then he puts someone on his ticket who has FAR less experience than Obama (despite being 72 and having survived cancer 4 times, making it an actuarial assumption that his death is imminent) and the Republicans all clamor about how much experience she has (even though guys like Rove derided not just Obama but people who are also governors and former mayors that he might have considered as running mates). Palin even put out a commercial attacking Obama’s experience, and that speech last night, she compared herself to Obama, and the rest of the party compared her to Obama as well. They are trying to dilude themselves into thinking that she’s not just an unvetted, political choice meant to pander to the base and to women, so they’ve convinced themselves of exactly the opposite of what they’ve been saying all along. And she’s a friggin superstar among Republicans…the whole “celebrity” thing about Obama being bigger than Paris Hilton or Britney Spears….this past week her name has gotten more Google hits (by far), than Hilton, Spears and Obama combined.

Why is everyone comparing the VP on the Republican ticket to the Pres on the Dem ticket? Because they’ve backed themselves into a corner where they HAVE to make that comparison.

@p&m
I can’t say it any better

The reason why Sarah Palin and Obama are being compared is because her image is what’s swaying a lot of undecided votes to the right side.

I thought her speech was awful. I hated the fact that she took what was basically an honorable tone from McCain and threw it in the garbage with snark and misinformation. I was going to vote for Obama anyway, but now I’ve been inspired to donate money. If the republicans win in november I will be absolutely crushed. And worried.

@ critter being a senator doesn’t qualify for experience apparently?

Being a senator is way more experience than being Mayor of a podunk town in Alaska, who didn’t even want her state being governed by the US.

@criter1982 – my post on the link I provided might put it into some better perspective for you:

If you spend 3 years as a community organizer growing your organization from a staff of 1 to 13 and your budget from $70,000 to $400,000, then become the first black President of the Harvard Law Review, create a voter registration drive that registers 150,000 new African Amerian voters, spend 12 years as a Constitutional Law professor, then spend nearly 8 more years as a State Senator representing a district with over 750,000 people, becoming chairman of the state Senate’s Health and Human Services committee, then spend nearly 4 years in the United States Senate representing a state of nearly 13 million people, sponsoring 131 bills and serving on the Foreign Affairs, Environment and Public Works and Veteran’s Affairs committees, you are woefully inexperienced.

If you spend 4 years on the city council and 6 years as the mayor of a town with less than 7,000 people, then spend 20 months as the governor of a state with 650,000 people, then you’ve got the most executive experience of anyone on either ticket, are the Commander in Chief of the Alaska military and are well qualified to lead the nation should you be called upon to do so because your state is the closest state to Russia.

That and for me it’s about judgment. No one is experienced at being the President until they are the President.

Yet the Republican talking point is “the Presidency is no place for on the job training”, which in and of itself is bullshit when you see my point above.

Nonetheless, they then turn around and say that Palin may not have foreign policy experience, but she’s a “quick study”

The woman will be 2nd in command to a 72 year old who has HAD CANCER 4 TIMES!

To me the Presidency is a place for an intelligent person who knows how to lead people. Obama is intelligent and he knows how to lead people.

To me the President is the person who makes decisions with input from a variety of sources. That takes judgment and a willingness to listen to other’s opinions. Obama has that.

McCain and Palin go with the Bush (mis)leadership model. Make decisions first, ask questions later. That’s why this country is in such bad shape, in a war we should have never fought and in a financial crisis unlike anything we’ve seen since probably before you were born.

McCain making decisions first and asking questions later can be illustrated by his pick of Palin in and of itself. She was NOT VETTED. They have proven that he DIDN’T EVEN SEARCH THE ARCHIVES OF HER HOMETOWN NEWSPAPER.

McCain and Obama have both made their first Presidential level decision…the picking of a running mate. Obama picked someone who has been a leader in Congress for 36 years, with extensive foreign policy credentials. McCain picked someone he thought could sway disaffected Hillary voters because she’s a woman without finding out that she’s got a pregnant 17 year old daughter, is embroiled in a scandal and is rumored to not even be the mother of her youngest son.

I’m sorry, but the President doesn’t (or shouldn’t) just make decisions without input, Obama won’t, McCain will, bottom line, and we have enough proof to know that.

http://politicalirony.com/ funny website, everyone should check it out, some stuff on Palin there.

The simple fact of BEING a senator doesn’t qualify any candidate to be President of the US. Little to nothing got accomplished when he was a Senator and if Obama is elected I highly doubt that anything will get done in office. I’m not arguing that Palin has enough experience to be in office but I certainly believe and not too many people argue that McCain certainly has enough experience.

McCain will only bring to the table what we’re already used to, and it isn’t working out.

@benseven; Warning; that letter has already showed up four times on my email. It is bogus.

My concern is that the GOP doesn’t offer concrete solutions to the problems plaguing the average American today. I am one of the lucky ones and still feeling a terrible economic pinch, desperate difficulties with medical insurance for me and my 93 year old mother, paying 20% of my yearly income to real estate and local taxes, as only a few personal examples.

Polarization is not helping the USA. Too much “love” and “hate”, with everyone hammering everyone else into one slot or the other. Does everyone either love or hate all of their employees, or coworkers, or team members, or class members, or acquaintances, or friends?

Just a radical suggestion: When talking and thinking about politics (at least!), replace “love” in your dialogue with “researched and agree with” and “hate” with “researched and do not agree with”. The polarization of American politics was one of the great fears of the Founding Fathers.

Hell, the President’s job, what he is sworn to do is to uphold and protect the Constitution of the United States…it’s what they promise to do on the FIRST DAY IN OFFICE. Who better than a 12 year professor of Constitutional Law? But Rethuglicans don’t go in for that fancy book learnin’.

But if it’s all about accomplishments to you, how about this…

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132×4578207

or this…

http://www.obama08-wa.com/files/experience.pdf

or this…

http://www.wral.com/golo/blogpost/2443642/

Here’s a link to the wiki on Obama’s Senate record:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_career_of_Barack_Obama

and here’s a wiki of the 131 bills he’s sponsored”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bills_sponsored_by_Barack_Obama_in_the_United_States_Senate

So, what have YOU accomplished?

I feel like the experience issue is totally yesterday’s news and was hashed out to the nth degree during the primaries. Didn’t the public discourse already establish that change trumps experience in this election? Did we not already hear the argument that if experience was that important then the really experienced people would have solved our important problems by now instead of causing us to backslide?

kevbo,

Completely agree, and I find it positively LUDICROUS that they undercut their message that they’ve been pushing down our throats for 6 months by picking an unknown, and NOW they’re building her up like she’s the most experienced person on either ticket because she was a mayor of a podunk Alaska town. The hypocrisy makes my head want to explode.

@dalepetrie: My doc says I’m supposed to be avoiding stress!! What are you doing to me?! LOL

sorry poofandmook, the hypocrisy is just getting a bit too thick, I had to let some of out into the air or I’d drown.

As Governor of Alaska, Palin operated a $9 billion budget, and managed $13 billion in revenue. She also runs a government that employs 25,000 people, and is the Commander of the Alaska National Guard. She has more EXECUTIVE level experience than anybody. But I don’t feel they are playing her up as having a ton of experience I believe they are simply rebuking what people are saying is a lack of experience.

She scares the shit out of me. The entire Republican Convention kinda’ freaked me out. Reminded me of a scene right out of 1984 when everyone yells during “Hate hour” or whatever it’s called. I didn’t think Americans were filled with so much spite towards one another.

I love the “Commander in Chief of the Alaska National Guard” line. Does anyone spouting off that Republican talking point realize how ridiculous it sounds? Plus, not even true…Bush revoked the right of Governors to be the commander in chief of their state national guards one month before Palin took office in ‘07. He is now the commander in chief of all the state national guards. And 9 billion in revenue…we gave one billion to Georgia as an afterthought. And $9 billion…seriously. That’s less than one week’s interest on the national debt.

@dalepetrie: I meant the whole political debate… because I can’t not comment.

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-na-earmarks3–2008sep03,0,284198.story

poofandmook, I get you. Just be thankful you’re debating on a site where people actually debate and don’t just hurl insults ***cough….ahem…Askville…cough…ahem****

Not really true, state governors retain command in in-state natural disasters and civic emergencies.

@critter1982 -

in-state natural disasters and civic emegencies doesn’t sound much like “foreign policy” to me. And even if it were, I can’t recall Alaska ever having to defend its borders.

I wasn’t arguing that Palin had foreign policy experience. And no Alaska doesn’t have to defend their borders (probably because they are adjacent to Canada, does Canada even have an army/), but they have had erosion issues where citizen rescue was required and times when National Guard had to be brought in for in-state security reasons.

@critter…go on believing all the garbage they’re trying to feed you then.

I don’t dispute what you are saying. I dispute the whole “she’s more experienced than anyone in foreign policy on either ticket because she’s the commander in cheif of the Alaskan National Guard” talking point that you quote.

They are playing up what they themselves played down.

Karl Rove on why Tim Kaine would not have made a good choice for Obama’s VP:

“With all due respect again to Governor Kaine, he’s been a governor for three years, he’s been able but undistinguished,” Rove said. “I don’t think people could really name a big, important thing that he’s done. He was mayor of the 105th largest city in America. So if he were to pick Governor Kaine, it would be an intensely political choice where he said, `You know what? I’m really not, first and foremost, concerned with, is this person capable of being president of the United States.”

Today Rove throws out the “more executive experience than any candidate on either ticket” and “Commander in Chief of the Alaskan National Guard” lines at every turn, and even talked about how she was the mayor of the “second largest city in all of Alaska.”

And as goes Rove, so goes the Republican base.

Understate your opponents strenghts and overstate their weaknesses, and do the exact opposite for your candidate, EVEN if the strengths and/or weaknesses of your candidate are the same (or in this case worse)

Hey, I’ve got an experiment,

“With all due respect again to Governor Palin, she’s been a governor for twenty months, she’s been able but undistinguished. I don’t think people could really name a big, important thing that she’s done. She was mayor of a town 1/20th of the size of Barack Obama’s Illinois State Senate District. So by picking Governor Palin, it was an intensely political choice where he said, `You know what? I’m really not, first and foremost, concerned with, is this person capable of being president of the United States.”

To guys like Rove it’s “win at all cost.” It’s just a chess game and damn integrity.

what frightens me is… Mitt Romney gave a damned good speech, content aside. He’s a salesman to the core.

Simple minds are swayed by guys like him.

Regarding the speech itself…

Her opening salvo is “It was just a year ago when all the experts in Washington counted out our nominee…They overlooked the caliber of the man himself – the determination, resolve, and sheer guts of Senator John McCain.” – so she’s saying that experience (vis a vis experts) doesn’t prove much and doesn’t trump character?

“The right reason [to go to Washington] is to challenge the status quo”- as in voting with the president 95% of the time?

“When a hurricane strikes in the Gulf of Mexico, this country should not be so dependent on imported oil that we are forced to draw from our Strategic Petroleum Reserve.”- Huh?

“To confront the threat that Iran might seek to cut off nearly a fifth of world energy supplies…”- So they’re going to cut off their own bread and butter? Unlikely.

”...what exactly is our opponent’s plan? ...The answer is to make government bigger, take more of your money, give you more orders from Washington, and to reduce the strength of America in a dangerous world.”- as opposed to Bush’s lapdog who has helped make the national debt bigger, restrict our liberties, and reduce America’s credibility by manufacturing terror to justify imperialism.

“America needs more energy… our opponent is against producing it.”- Do we really need more energy? Could we not gain more energy from efficiencies such as improving gas mileage?

“Al Qaeda terrorists still plot to inflict catastrophic harm on America… he’s worried that someone won’t read them their rights?”- You mean we should give up our rights so that we can follow CIA asset Osama bin Ladin to the gates of hell? The same Osama whom the world’s most advanced and powerful military once surrounded on three sides and blocked one of two possible escape routes only to suffer the terrible luck of him slipping through our dragnet?

“death tax”- You mean what we used to call the estate tax before Orwellianspeak became the norm?

“How are you going to be better off if our opponent adds a massive tax burden to the American economy?”- you mean the Bush economy? That economy?

“McCain’s record of actual achievement and reform helps explain why so many special interests, lobbyists, and comfortable committee chairmen in Congress have fought the prospect of a McCain presidency – from the primary election of 2000 to this very day.”- as evidenced by the utter lack of corporate interests present at the DNC and RNC.

”[McCain is] a leader who’s not looking for a fight…”- except in Georgia.

“There is only one man in this election who has ever really fought for you… in places where winning means survival and defeat means death… and that man is John McCain.”- If military service is a near requirement, then why does the constitution specify civilian control of the military?

“the kind of fellow whose name you will find on war memorials in small towns across this country”- you’re nobody unless you’ve killed somebody—legally, of course. I mean in a legal war or maybe just a police action. You know, so long as they’re foreign.

“For a season, a gifted speaker can inspire with his words.”- you mean like MLK? or Lincoln?

“If character is the measure in this election… and hope the theme… and change the goal we share, then I ask you to join our cause.”- uh, Yes we can?

_

So, kevbo, am I to understand that the conventions, particularly the Republican convention, and even more particularly Palin’s speech have helped you climb off the fence (and land on the left)? Or am I reading too much into that?

GOP is base-pandering. The same strategy that worked for Bush in 2004—energize the base. I think they’ve totally given up on working moderate swing voters. (This is all spoonfed to me from TPM).

I think the comparison to Palin as a “mean girl” is totally spot on as well.

The sense of fear is palpable in this thread. Relax. I am a lesbian and a member of Unitarian Universalist Church. I would be proud to have this woman represent me. She is real. She is tough. She isn’t a push-over Washington insider. We may disagree on many issues, but for me I am ready for a real change. I believe she intends to represent all, not just a select few. I am in the Republican corner on this.

So, Sueanne Tremendous, as a lesbian it doesn’t bother you that she is not only against same-sex marriage, but supported a constitutional ammendment to deny health benefits to same-sex couples? You have your right to your opinion, I’m just curious about your thoughts there.

Oh and by the way, I guess she is quallified after all:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/seth-grahamesmith/8-reasons-sarah-palin-is_b_123294.html

@dale, I’d say more that there are false assumptions perpetrated by both the establishment left and the establishment right. If you believe (as 1/3 of Americans do) that the government facilitated 9/11 then I would think you must disbelieve the above-board necessity for our recent wars, suspension of habeas corpus, torture, USA Patriot, FISA, and so on. You must disbelieve the necessity to preemptively raid the homes of convention protesters who are merely exercising their first amendment rights, confiscate their materials, and detain them for 36 hours without cause. Likewise, the necessity to arrest or detain members of the press for reporting at the scenes of protests or for attempting to report corporate lobbying at the conventions. All of these arrests, detentions, and other police tactics are justified via the legislation that has passed to fight terrorism.

Obama supports the war on terror. McCain supports the war on terror. The war on terror is predicated on the tragedy of 9/11. If 9/11 was facilitated by the government, then the war on terror must be a farce. Similar to Bush’s “you’re either with us or against us” decree, any elected leader who is complicit in obscuring the truth of 9/11 is not for “us” but for something or someone else, and Democratic leadership has been just as complicit in letting this issue lie fallow (not to mention the mainstream media).

I wish I could articulate more precisely what I support. I did support Obama in the primaries and prior to taking on a new perspective about our war agenda. I supported Nader in the past and agree with the gist of Ron Paul’s positions. I also believe there’s a global conspiracy afoot, which plays heavily into the injustices described above by co-opting our leaders and our national agenda. I suppose whoever cracks those opaque ceilings will be getting my vote.

i am watching the speech right now and it’s just painful to watch it. she’s going on and on about her stupid family. NO I DON’T CARE HOW YOU AND YOUR HUSBAND MET, talk about issues and why you qualify as a good VP. and what’s equally annoying is how eager the crowd is to hear about such nonsense. They aren’t gathered there for a dinner party. Ugh.

Gosh, Palin was the worst choice ever, I thought he wanted to win….

PnL, just wait until she gets to the Obama bashing. Hello pot, meet kettle.

i still am trying to figure out how “victory in Iraq is in sight”. Does she know something the rest of the world doesn’t know?

While watching the Democratic Convention I was impressed with how Obama and Biden addressed the issues of the Republicans without showing any disrespect or hatefulness. Watching Palin made me feel sick to my stomach and had I not already been voting for Obama I am sure that her speech would have changed my mind. Does anyone else find it funny that Palin compared her job as Governor now to a job Obama had twenty years ago while he was still a young adult??

PnL,

Didn’t you hear, “The Surge is Working™”?

@Dale: First off, she vetoed a bill that would have denied same-sex benefits to partners of state employees. Facts. Funny things, huh? (See the citation at the bottom. I’m sure I can find the official release on this…just haven’t looked hard enough) I am no more afraid of Palin’s religious views or views on same-sex marriage then I am Nancy Pelosi’s Catholicism and Pro-Choice stance. What so many people fail to realize is that my hot-button issue probably isn’t yours. And yours probably isn’t mine. But we only have two parties with a real chance to make a difference and I will choose the party who will make the most positive difference in my life. Frankly, I think McCain/Palin is that team. I don’t want more government. I don’t want more entitlements. I don’t want to be taxed more. For god’s sake, I make $160,000 and I am in the bracket that Obama wants to raise taxes to.

One last thing, one the most powerful things a person can do is to change the mind of another person and get them to understand your viewpoint. I think Palin has the capability to see the other side. Read what Tim Ruttman of the LA times wrote on her thoughts about creationism and, umm, same sex benefits:

“She also brings an interesting tinge of Alaska’s blue-collar, frontier libertarianism to the social agenda debate. Although she supports the teaching of creationism in public schools, Palin thinks it should be presented alongside, rather than instead of, evolution. “Healthy debate is so important, and it’s so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both,” she said during her gubernatorial campaign. “I say this too as the daughter of a science teacher. ... Don’t be afraid of information, and let kids debate both sides.” Similarly, although she opposes same-sex marriage, as governor she vetoed a bill that would have denied benefits to the partners of gay state employees.”

Link to the whole article.

@critter1982 – why was palin constantly talking about obama? since she was running for VP, shouldn’t she have spent more time comparing herself to biden?

@dale – it’s amazing how long it’s been working for.

@sue – i understand that everyone has different issues they focus on. But it surprises me that one your reasons is because you would have to pay more taxes since you make a lot of money. I thought people picked their president/vp as the team that would be better for the entire country, not just see their personal gain. If you make that much money, taxes can’t really hurt you and make you homeless I would imagine? I am not trying to change your mind in anyway. I was just caught off guard by your answer I guess.

^5^ @Kevbo on Ron Paul.