Social Question

zen_'s avatar

In Israel, there's Jerusalem syndrome. Is there anything like it elsewhere in the world?

Asked by zen_ (6273points) October 11th, 2010

Jerusalem Syndrome

By the way, I hate crappypedia – not knowing the source of the article, and who was the last twit to “tweak” it – so whenever I can – in protest, I’ll quote another source. It’s getting harder, as wiki is becoming the Google of online encyclopedias.

Nevertheless, I have linked to another site, however, I cannot attest to their “credibility”. But then, I can’t attest to yours, or mine for that matter.

What say you?

Oh, and take this thread wherever you want – including drinks, drugs and life in general.

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40 Answers

muppetish's avatar

I haven’t fully read the article, but I do find the topic interesting. It reminds me of Paris Syndrome, which I first heard of via QI:

“Paris syndrome is a culture shock condition suffered by Japanese people when they visit Paris. They are not used to the things that the French do well that the Japanese cannot do. Almost everything in the French language is, to them, offensive and they suffer from jetlag. 12 people a year are expensively repatriated to Japan. The Japanese Embassy in Paris has a 24-hour helpline for people who are so traumatised by the terrible experience of coming to Paris.”

zen_'s avatar

@bob_ Very Funny. Now youtube the Dutch band by that name – you’re in for a treat. Really.

@muppetish Nice. Smart. Thanks.

Nullo's avatar

It’s a bit surprising to see just how many people slip the rails.
Reminds me of a theory that I heard once, that stuff gets recorded in the Earth’s magnetic field and plays back now and then. More romantic than sensible, but there you have it.

Jeruba's avatar

@zen_, is that article a put-on?

zen_'s avatar

^Why? I’ve seen it happen.

Nullo's avatar

@Jeruba Wiki sez that there really is a Jerusalem Syndrome, and that it really does work like that.
Wiki also says that it also affects the occasional Muslim.

The guy in @zen’s article also appeared in the British Journal of Psychiatry, on the same topic.

It’s no stranger, I think than Stendhal (or Florence) Syndrome.

mammal's avatar

Sounds like the same kind of nonsense that afflicts people in India.

zen_'s avatar

@Nullo Thanks.

@mammal You lost me at “nonsense.”

mammal's avatar

@mammal seriously, you think it’s ok to strip off and assume the persona of John The Baptist, this stuff happens in India, same thing. Classic clash of cultures.

Jeruba's avatar

Really? I never heard of this particular brand of nuttiness before, but ok. The inventive powers of nutcases beggar the sane imagination. @zen_, you’ve seen it? I don’t doubt your word. It just sounded like a joke to me.

Nullo's avatar

@Jeruba The wackiest part has got to be how they return to normal so easily.

Jeruba's avatar

How come somebody hasn’t made a TV series out of it?

Speaking of which: following the links, I came to the Mean World Syndrome. There I learned this: Individuals who watch television infrequently and adolescents who talk to their parents about reality are claimed to have a more accurate view of the real world than those who do not, and they may be able to more accurately assess their vulnerability to violence. Since I don’t watch TV, I found this cheering. And then I thought—but if that puts a person at odds with consensual reality, does it actually gain them anything, or does it make them a victim of Reality Syndrome?

Nullo's avatar

@Jeruba Either it would be too insulting, or else there wouldn’t be enough story there. Maybe a one-episode feature on the History Channel.

Hawaii_Jake's avatar

In Hawaii, the only thing similar is when tourists get too relaxed on vacation and cry when leaving.

zen_'s avatar

It shouldn’t be taken lightly. I’ve seen two cases, and read about countless others. Some are institutionalized, some remain in a sort of trance-like state for life. It’s psychosis, by all means, but not unlike the feeling of brainwashed helplessness one gets in the cults. But in this case, you’re on your own. Literally.

Jeruba's avatar

Wow. I think it’s amazing that someone could become so completely unhinged overnight just by being in a certain place, no matter how evocative.

zen_'s avatar

@Jeruba When you come visit one day – and see the awesomeness of Jerusalem, and literally walk the via dolorosa, swim the waters and river that Jesus walked on, touch the wall from 5000 years ago – The Temple, The temple; well, you’ll just have to visit. I’m not saying everyone can get it – I’m saying it makes sense that someone with the “right” personality could get it – in Jerusalem. Perhaps Mecca, Medina or even the Taj create cases like this.

Hawaii_Jake's avatar

Knowing my mental state, I think I’ll steer clear. Simply seeing ”The” temple written with emphasis made me tingle.

I think…

I think…

Let me check my linen closet for white sheets. I feel the need to say some things loudly on a street corner.

meiosis's avatar

Jerusalem is a horrible place, woth lots of hectoring fanatics of every stripe and hue, all trying to badger you and make you see the world from their point of view. I couldn’t wait to leave.

Nullo's avatar

@meiosis To each his own, I suppose. Some people like the feeling of history.

meiosis's avatar

@Nullo To each their own indeed. Rome, Paris and Barcelona all give me a sense of history. Jerusalem just gave me a sense of unpleasantness.

zen_'s avatar

@meiosis East or West Jerusalem?

meiosis's avatar

@zen We experienced really nasty people in both the east and west parts, though the west had the most in-your-face unpleasantness. The racism from much of the crowd directed at two black players at a Beitar Jerusalem v Sporting Lisbon football match I went to was sickening.

zen_'s avatar

How was the game?

meiosis's avatar

It was a fairly dull 0–0 draw Sporting won the second leg back on Portugal 4–0. It’s the only game I’ve ever been to where I’ve changed my allegiance halfway though – I’d started as a Beitar supporter out of politeness to the friend who’d taken me, but switched due to the outrageous behaviour of a large proportion of the crowd.

zen_'s avatar

Been to a game in England?

bob_'s avatar

Been to a game in Italy?

Jeruba's avatar

Heavens, I hope no nation on earth would be judged by the conduct of its fans at a sporting event. However, in drawing out people’s most primitive behavior, perhaps they could instead be seen as underscoring our common bond.

zen_'s avatar

@bob_ Playing games is more fun: this one is actually called “Soccer Violence” – jeez.

Great for kids

Nullo's avatar

Misbehavior seems to be endemic to soccer.
@bob_ I used to live behind an Italian soccer stadium. Even ‘normal’ matches had a heavy police presence.

meiosis's avatar

@zen_ I’ve been to hundreds of games in England. Why do you ask?

For what it’s worth, the level of racism I’ve seen at English grounds, even in the dark days of the 1970s, simply doesn’t compare to what I witnessed in Jerusalem. The chants, jeers, whistles, monkey noises, grunts etc. were on a mass scale (around ¼ of the crowd it seemed to me), and another good proportion sat chortling at the humour of it all. At English games over the past 20–30 years, anyone shouting racist abuse has generally been shouted down by the people around them, and quite often ejected from the ground by stewards. The idea of endemic football hooliganism at English grounds is probably about 25 years out of date.

@Jeruba I certainly wouldn’t judge anyone, except the people actually at the ground, for what went on that night. The majority of the people I met in Israel were either indifferent towards me (which is fine) or perfectly pleasant. I raised it because it was one of the experiences I had that gave me a poor impression of Jerusalem.

zen_'s avatar

@meiosis Beitar Jerusalem FC (Hebrew: מועדון כדורגל בית”ר ירושלים‎, Moadon Kaduregel Beitar Yerushalayim) is an Israeli football club from Jerusalem. The club is based at the Teddy Stadium in the Malha neighborhood, and plays in black and yellow. The club has been associated with Right-wing Israeli politics for over 70 years and attracts support from the La Familia Ultras group.[1]

From wiki.

I’m not making excuses, but you did choose the most infamous team in Israel. They are right wing, arab haters and even hate everyone else – especially the hapoel teams – usually associated with the left, kibbutz and such.

I won’t let my son go to their games – even when they play our team at home. They be violent ass-holes.

Nuf said.

Sorry you had a bad experience. I have travelled the world – some good times, some bad. It’s true: some memories stick – even though they are a fraction of the whole trip. Next time look me up – I’ll show you a good time. Promise.

bob_'s avatar

@Nullo Yeah, those guys really like their calcio. I was at the Coppa Italia final in 2006 (Inter – Roma, in Milan). Some Roma fans started to make a mess in the stands, so the police were sent to control them. We saw a Roma fan with Nunchucks. Veramente un casino!

Nullo's avatar

@bob_ What were you doing there, I wonder?

@zen_ Out of curiosity, what sorts of philosophies does a person find in a right-wing Israeli party? It sorta seems like everybody is desperate to associate rabid racism with right-wings. It’s irritating.

bob_'s avatar

@Nullo Semester abroad.

mammal's avatar

@Nullo Out of curiosity, what sorts of philosophies does a person find in a right-wing Israeli party? It sorta seems like everybody is desperate to associate rabid racism with right-wings. It’s irritating.

fascist ones.

Israel is a profoundly Right Wing, militarised, ultra nationalistic country at de facto war with it’s neighbors, with an apartheid system that would be the envy of any former white South African government. There is an elephant in the room and no-one has noticed. Israel is fascist. It’s a fascist state.

Racism is endemic in soccer universally, a game that has traditionally attracted a working class support base, who’s very emotional well being is dictated by the success of their respective teams, who are of limited financial means and predisposed to venting their class and racial hatred, sometimes violently at Soccer venues. Therefore it comes as no surprise that Israeli soccer fans indulge in exceptionally racist behaviour.

Only in America is soccer a middle class phenomenon, in fact one senator i forget which, led a crusade back in the 1920’s to stem the rising popularity of soccer in America because he feared it would incite Bolshevism, football was promoted on an ideological basis as a more wholesome alternative.

The right wing is economically divisive, agreed? it believes or accepts economic disparity to be the natural order, as opposed to the left who would prefer an economically classless society. Economic disparity creates class conflict, which is further exacerbated by conditions such as the influx of immigrant labour competing for jobs and driving down wages, notwithstanding the cultural differences. Therefore in traditionally right-wing regimes, racism and sectarianism becomes embroiled with class conflict and are of a peculiar intensity.

Nullo's avatar

@mammal You have managed to be consistently wrong about a lot of things. I think that I’ll wait for @zen_‘s response.

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